Rome II

[mikeck]

Still considering this game, but on the TW Center forum, most people are still not recommending buying the game: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?674412-Is-Rome-II-worth-getting

I'm really tempted due to the sale.

You know you can't trust the TW forum regulars that complain over everything. Rome is a great game and this is not a 250 page thread because the game sucks. A lot of guys on here that Have spent a lot of hours gaming really enjoy it

What makes me laugh is the hate for the Sparta expansion. What's the hate it's just a DLC if you don't like it don't buy. How could anyone be surprised about the content it's exactly what it's been advertised as a big map agrees with four different city states you can play

[Gusington]

I like the city state idea and the new map. I don't know much about the era other than having read Donald Kagan's book a few years back and playing the first Hegemony game, though. I'm more of a fall of Rome kind of guy but if this DLC is good it may be a good entry point to revisit the whole era.

[mikeck]

It's about what you would expect. People complain about lack of unit diversity but seriously, how many different types of hoplites were there?

Like you Gus, I read Kagan's book. That's it. I think if people are expecting a game that duplicates the politics and diplomacy involved during those wars,
They will be disappointed.
It's a TW game so build a military and take over stuff....with
Hoplites

[Gusington]

^I can dig it. Watching the trailer now.

[jomni]

It's about what you would expect. People complain about lack of unit diversity but seriously, how many different types of hoplites were there?

Like you Gus, I read Kagan's book. That's it. I think if people are expecting a game that duplicates the politics and diplomacy involved during those wars,
They will be disappointed.
It's a TW game so build a military and take over stuff....with
Hoplites

Non diverse titles are actually the best (Shogun...)

[Nefaro]

From what I understand, the new units are mostly skirmisher types.  Which is fine with me because I think that's what is missing the most historical diversity in Rome 2. 

Curious as to how the Persian faction's AI behaves in this campaign.

[LongBlade]

It's about what you would expect. People complain about lack of unit diversity but seriously, how many different types of hoplites were there?

Like you Gus, I read Kagan's book. That's it. I think if people are expecting a game that duplicates the politics and diplomacy involved during those wars,
They will be disappointed.
It's a TW game so build a military and take over stuff....with
Hoplites

Heh heh heh :)

[MengJiao]

It's about what you would expect. People complain about lack of unit diversity but seriously, how many different types of hoplites were there?

Like you Gus, I read Kagan's book. That's it. I think if people are expecting a game that duplicates the politics and diplomacy involved during those wars,
They will be disappointed.
It's a TW game so build a military and take over stuff....with
Hoplites

   I didn't read the Kagan.  Kagan is really a guy who needs some sources -- he's quite interesting on General Mack at Ulm for example (if I have the right Kagan).

   BUT, having played the Hoplite board game I was ready to take on the Spartans with Perikles and his Athenians, especially since Athens had been defeated about 80% of the time all over the place.  I had massed one army at Athens and sent it off to Korinth in hopes of taking some pressure off in other places. 

    So:  How I Beat the Spartans:

    1) Outnumbering them in the first clash 2 to 1 (their allies were coming in later)
    2) Letting them come close and then launching the whole Athenian line in one ragged charge
    3) Thinning and extending the Left
    4) massing on the right
    5) General with militia in the rear of the right
    6) cavalry far right
    7) Skirmishers behind the hoplites to get maximum stuff hitting at impact time

    Which all chewed up the Spartan line pretty fast.  Perikles downed their morale 10% overall and troops he had raised were +1 etc.
    The Athenian horse dispersed the Spartan skirmishers
    The Spartan horse more or less vanished as the Hoplites crashed into the main line
    I got Perkicles and the militia on the right flank and hit the Spartans from behind
    The Spartan AI trapped its top troops in the behind the less powerful troops at the moment of impact
    The Spartans were mostly mopped up by the time the Korinthians arrived with lots of militia
    The Spartan King stayed about where most of the Spartan army had been and After the Korinthians started to run, I sent some hoplites back to keep him busy
    And a third attack routed even the Spartan King's troops after he was killed.

     Pretty fun.  The fighting is pretty much an extended slug-fest and even the militia hoplites will stand up for a while, but a hoplite unit in formation doesn't take big losses unless it gets hit pursuing or running somewhere. 

[Sir Slash]

Watched a bit of a video campaign of the DLC last pm and one thing that surprised me was the emphasis on not taking your enemies capitals as that incurs major diplomatic effects with the other Greek factions. Rather the main effort should be directed at weakening your enemies but capturing their smaller settlements. It's called "The Threat of Hegemony" and could have a real change in the way you have to play. If the Diplomacy is improved as they claim. Elsewhere, lots of Hoplites, of course, but a few other new units too. I'll admit I'm intrigued by it, but I miss the Barbarians.

[MengJiao]

Watched a bit of a video campaign of the DLC last pm and one thing that surprised me was the emphasis on not taking your enemies capitals as that incurs major diplomatic effects with the other Greek factions. Rather the main effort should be directed at weakening your enemies but capturing their smaller settlements. It's called "The Threat of Hegemony" and could have a real change in the way you have to play. If the Diplomacy is improved as they claim. Elsewhere, lots of Hoplites, of course, but a few other new units too. I'll admit I'm intrigued by it, but I miss the Barbarians.

   It's an interestingly balanced game and it does feel like the right period -- it is pretty late 5th century.  I've been playing as Athens and running the Little Empire is not easy even on Easy.  I've been beaten up pretty bad from the far West to the far east, but I did win the two big hoplite land battles using pretty standard hoplite tactics -- not that those two wins seem to have done me much good since I'm losing on all the peripheries.
On the other hand, trade and diplomacy are working now that I defeated some big armies and released lots of prisonners and sent an observer to the Olympics and so on. 

[Martok]

Well I know I'm not going to get to WoS today.  It was a long night at work, and I'm just way too out of it at this point to play...well, just about anything right now, to be honest.   

Fortunately, I'm off both tomorrow and Friday night, so I'll have plenty of time get into it then.  8) 

"In addition, troop transports act more as cargo ships than combat vessels, and are no longer able to ram in naval battles, reducing the unfair advantage of troop convoys in naval warfare. This change will be retroactively applied to all ROME II campaigns. "


Finally. 

The old cargo haulers finally get nerfed.

I too am not unhappy about this, especially given the importance of naval warfare in the region & period.  Well done, CA. 

I remember when Martok wouldn't even look at Rome 2...and now look!

Heh, indeed. 

By the way, while I can never say it often enough: thanks (again).  :) 

I like the city state idea and the new map. I don't know much about the era other than having read Donald Kagan's book a few years back and playing the first Hegemony game, though. I'm more of a fall of Rome kind of guy but if this DLC is good it may be a good entry point to revisit the whole era.

If you don't mind historical fiction (especially if it's well-written & researched), I urge you to check out Tides of War by Steven Pressfield.  It's a superb "ground-level" view of the Peloponnesian War, as told from the view of a common Athenian infantryman. 

I know that for most fans of Pressfield, Gates of Fire (covering the 300 Spartans' stand at Thermopylae) is the big vote-getter.  For me, however, Tides has always been my personal favorite. 

[MengJiao]

It's about what you would expect. People complain about lack of unit diversity but seriously, how many different types of hoplites were there?

Like you Gus, I read Kagan's book. That's it. I think if people are expecting a game that duplicates the politics and diplomacy involved during those wars,
They will be disappointed.
It's a TW game so build a military and take over stuff....with
Hoplites

   BUT, having played the Hoplite board game I was ready to take on the Spartans with Perikles and his Athenians, especially since Athens had been defeated about 80% of the time all over the place.  I had massed one army at Athens and sent it off to Korinth in hopes of taking some pressure off in other places. 

  But meanwhile (oh noes -- you guessed it over at Total War Center the game is a waste of money because some Spartans were killed and it took a while to beat the non-Spartan Hoplites -- who were overpowered -- though defeated -- gosh it just took too long for the Spartans to crush them):

   totally wasted money, i have just played first and probably last battle, as Sparta. Enemy hoplites overpowered, i did sandwich attacking their rear and militia hoplites hold for hours killing many of my royal spartans...oh please God forgive them.

   So for this guy it would have been money well spent if the Spartans had just flat out obliterated their foes, I guess.  On the other hand, for me, it was money well spent since the Spartans can be beaten and beaten in fairly hoplite-esque battles where militia hoplites can hold on (though "hours" seems to be an exaggeration on the part of the ill-spent Spartan money-man)...which is the whole point about hoplites -- simple gear and tactics that a militia can do okay with.

  It's true -- if you want fantasy Spartans, this game doesn't have them.   It does have reasonably okay hoplite battles, though.  AND, if you really wanna be Spartan, apparently they can crush the AI Athenians in 30 turns or so.  Which isn't too surprising; Athens is in a lot of trouble at the start of the game.

[GDS_Starfury]

Whats the damn screenshot button?

[LongBlade]

   So for this guy it would have been money well spent if the Spartans had just flat out obliterated their foes, I guess. 

Spartans are the nuclear option of the ancient world. Duh!

[Nefaro]

   So for this guy it would have been money well spent if the Spartans had just flat out obliterated their foes, I guess. 

I've seen those same complaints on the Steam forum too. 

We all realize that the TW battles are rather arcade but there are quite a few fanboys who want to push the historical basis fully into unicorn & leprechaun territory.  ;D