The Higher Education Hustle?

[Steelgrave]

I thought this was a tremendous article and worth the read

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/06/24/the_higher_education_hustle_118926-4.html

As a disclaimer, I'm back in school at 53, my wife is finishing her doctorate, I have a son finishing his Masters and teaching at Oklahoma, so I'm in no way anti-education...but I think this article is pretty damning towards the business of education and how we have gotten to where we are.

[Toonces]

That was a pretty good article, and a bit of a bummer.   >:(

[GDS_Starfury]

for my interests and core field I went to one of the best schools in the world and it did dick for me in the real world of employment.   

[GDS_Starfury]

I think a huge problem in todays US society is pushing our kids into a white collar mindset.  theres a huge demand for skilled trades people that mostly goes unnoticed by white America.

[Steelgrave]

I think a huge problem in todays US society is pushing our kids into a white collar mindset.  theres a huge demand for skilled trades people that mostly goes unnoticed by white America.

Couldn't agree more. What's wrong with having good trade schools for kids who really don't want/need to go to college?

[GDS_Starfury]

the trade schools are there to be used.  thats not the problem.  its the parental American mindset thats the problem.  you have to be a particularly stupid auto mechanic to not have work.  same for plumbers and a/c techs.

[bayonetbrant]

What's wrong with having good trade schools for kids who really don't want/need to go to college?

Absolutely nothing.  The problem is that the education industry has gone out of the way to create greater demand by convincing people they 'need' a college degree, even though said people have no interest, no need, and no actual ability to truly earn that degree.  Trust me on this one - I'm busy teaching folks trying to earn a "degree" that they don't actually need.

[airboy]

There are a lot of inter-twined issues.

First, the general public became aware that those with "college degrees" were more likely to be employed and have higher salaries.  But not all "degrees" are equal.

Some degrees are amazingly useful, if you can pass the courses and the degree from the school is not so dumbed down that you actually learn a useful skill.  At my school Chemical Engineering Undergrads start at an average of $82,000.  But then there are bunches of degrees that do not train people in a useful skill: some of the best known are "insert racial/ethic background of your choice" studies; art, communication, etc......

There are way too many graduate programs.  People who get a Masters or a Ph.D. without carefully studying the job market for the degree are nuts.  Grad programs also raise the cost of providing degree programs and also provide inferior, raw rookie teachers to undergrads.

"Private Schools" as a group cost a lot more and don't provide a unique benefit over Public Universities.

Last, State support for Higher Education has tanked as Medicare/Medicaid costs have skyrocketed.  This has happened in most every State.  This has been a contributing factor to increasing costs.  Users are bearing more of the cost.

So if you shop wisely.  You get a degree in something useful. And you take into consider cost - you are likely to arrive at a much better result than you will if you just "study what excites you!"  Ask all of the film majors, music majors, literature majors, etc..... how many doors their degree opened.

[Toonces]

Interesting insights, Airboy.

I really enjoyed the part of the article that discussed how businesses use the college acceptance process as a screening mechanism for their own company.  For those that didn't read it, the gist was that some big company or law firm doesn't have or want the resources to screen everybody that is qualified for a job.  So what they do is rely on the college screening process to weed out potential applicants.

In other words, they don't really care what you learned at Harvard Law School.  The fact that Harvard screened you and accepted you from all their applicants is enough. 

I'm probably not doing a good job explaining this, but it was a very interesting perspective.

[Windigo]

Interesting insights, Airboy.

I really enjoyed the part of the article that discussed how businesses use the college acceptance process as a screening mechanism for their own company.  For those that didn't read it, the gist was that some big company or law firm doesn't have or want the resources to screen everybody that is qualified for a job.  So what they do is rely on the college screening process to weed out potential applicants.

In other words, they don't really care what you learned at Harvard Law School.  The fact that Harvard screened you and accepted you from all their applicants is enough. 

I'm probably not doing a good job explaining this, but it was a very interesting perspective.

applicable in other areas too .... over the years I have learned that retired CAF officers are a pretty safe bet for competency and awesome project management skills

[undercovergeek]

its not something we hear much about now but up until 5 years ago there was a mass shortage of plumbers and electricians over here as everyone was pushed towards university and degrees and everyone flocked to trade schools - and for a good while they were on more more money than solicitors and professional managers - like i said its gone quiet now but for a time i knew 3 colleagues who left IT professions and went to mend pipes for a living and made a lot of money

[besilarius]

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-commonwealth-of-virgina.html

What can I say?  Virgina leads the way in higher education.

[bayonetbrant]

I just handed in the final grades for the 2 classes I taught this semester.  Everyone passed the Comp II class, but it was close for a few of them.
The Foundations class had 1-2 squeak through (barely) and a few spectacular failures.  If anyone that failed that class contests their grades, I'll happily give them a re-do on the final for all the marbles, and they'll still bomb out in spectacular fashion.

[Windigo]

I have a friend who went into instrumentation at a tech school while I hit university. He's about 30 million ahead in the net worth... Not shitting you.

[GDS_Starfury]

no doubt from me.
the person that has the copywrite for those shock patch things is making a fortune.  Ive worked for people that came up with the most mundane things and made fortunes.