So, now that Rise of Flight is on Steam...

[JudgeDredd]

I loved this sim...loved the look, loved the feel, bought almost all content - up to the point I realised I wasn't going to get any good at it. I just couldn't hit a barn door with those aircraft and I couldn't fly them nearly as good as the AI was, so I could never seem to get on the tai - and when I did - refer to my initial point.

I wanted to love it. Spent enough money on it to prove that, just wasn't any good at it!

[Grim.Reaper]

I loved this sim...loved the look, loved the feel, bought almost all content - up to the point I realised I wasn't going to get any good at it. I just couldn't hit a barn door with those aircraft and I couldn't fly them nearly as good as the AI was, so I could never seem to get on the tai - and when I did - refer to my initial point.

I wanted to love it. Spent enough money on it to prove that, just wasn't any good at it!

Pretty much my experience as well....I remember only buying the base game for $19 and how awesome it was just to fly around and such.....but like you, I couldn't shoot a darn thing and then all the add-ons came and just couldn't keep up anymore.

I bought into WOFF and although I haven't played in awhile, actually thought that was better suited for me, better price and much better single player campaign mode....still can't shoot much, but still had some fun with it.  Some day I will get back to it.

[Staggerwing]

I'm total crap at dogfighting as well and thus it's just not fun. I did get the Channel map and the big anphib (Felixstowe) with which I flew around quite a bit enjoying the scenery and trying out all the crew positions so I got my money's worth out of the base game and those add ons but all the other crates are just wasted on me.

Maybe I'll try out the DH4 again and then pretend I'm flying a mail route or something...

[Nefaro]

It finally clicked with me once I got my joystick set up well enough and started getting some practice, along with a few video tutorials & tips.

I think flying in WOFF is a bit easier to do since the aircraft controls don't push the nose up so damn far.  I would've shot my mechanics if they hadn't trimmed the wires in the shop to offset that craziness.  Anyway.. I moved the response curve down about 15% to offset most of it and tweaked an S-Curve to make the smaller early joystick movements be more precise.  It's a lot of tweaking but it's nearly there in ROF.

WOFF was easier since it's sensitivity/response settings are just a 0-200 rating system and the controls a bit more evenly precise.  I lowered most of those downward (other than Roll which went up) and put some time into it.  The campaign itself is brutal regarding how deadly it can be, but I can still reliably shoot down one or two planes per entanglement in that one.

[Nefaro]

Ahhhh...Lovely RoF.  Do give MP a go Nef - that's when the game really comes alive.

I greatly enjoyed my multi-player time in ROF yesterday, despite always getting murderized shortly after getting a kill.  :))


There are some things that still annoy me, however:

1) Joystick Pitch settings are reverted to default in MP.  I really hate constantly pushing forward so damn far to stay level.  It gets very painful after awhile.  Fortunately the Auto-Level command still works so the carpal tunnel can get an occasional break.

The joystick pitch and yew controls are already too sensitive and the fix is just a poor trade-off, so this just piles it on.  I heard IL2:BOS uses the same overly sensitive stick controls so that doesn't bode well.

2) Upward view is restricted.  I can't even look upward a full 90 degrees, ROF has an artificial limit. 

No matter which cardinal direction I'm facing, I still can't look directly up so I end up having to first look up and then rotate my head back & forth to try to see something directly above me.  Instead of just looking straight up at it.  This screws with my TrackIR usage and my awareness in a dogfight takes a hit.  ANGRY.  >:(


Despite these setbacks, I put a lot of time in yesterday.  Didn't do all that amazing but gave what I got in nearly all the Full Realism matches so I don't feel like a complete waste of space.  Still, between the joystick pitch forced to default and the overly restricted upward view, I would've had a better go.

I may eventually pick up IL2:BOS for some multi-player but hopefully some of these annoyances (and any new ones) get ironed out in the future before I do so.  In the meantime, ROF will do fine.

[Father Ted]

Glad you gave it a go and had some fun.  Sounds like you did better than I usually do - a kill is a big event in my online rofverse!

I have to say that I don't experience either of the two annoyances you mention.  Admittedly I don't switch between SP and MP very often, but my curve settings don't seem to alter when I do.  Maybe there's been an update since you last played?

TIR use seems natural for me.  I use Requiem's profile which I got from http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051.

[Nefaro]

Glad you gave it a go and had some fun.  Sounds like you did better than I usually do - a kill is a big event in my online rofverse!

Must've been beginner's luck.  For some reason I can actually hit stuff long enough to kill them in a Pfalz D.IIIa, but my gunnery skills haven't been so decisive in other types.  Also a pain playing on Full Realism, mostly due to spotting issues.  I could turn of all anti-aliasing to help but I just loathe too many jagged straight edges in my games. 

Nevertheless, it's fun.

Did a little bombing & strafing in a Halberstadt CL.II two-seater today.  That was a nice change of pace.  I don't own the DFW C.V.  Not sure how many extra bombs it could carry over the CL.II. 

I have to say that I don't experience either of the two annoyances you mention.  Admittedly I don't switch between SP and MP very often, but my curve settings don't seem to alter when I do.  Maybe there's been an update since you last played?

TIR use seems natural for me.  I use Requiem's profile which I got from http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051.

The joystick curve settings may have just been my own reverting to default, although I believe there may be a specific option for this in server settings.  Dunno.  I seem to get different results depending on the specific server I'm on.

My biggest complaint is the view limit when looking upward.  My TrackIR works great for me.  I've spent a LOT of time tweaking the TIR settings.  But ROF has a hard limit on looking straight upward that screws up my dogfight awareness.  This upward looking limit doesn't exist in other sims I use so it's troublesome here. 

I pretty much lose sight of anyone passing me while I'm turning because my view is stopped cold by the internal game setting.  Instead of my eyes transitioning smoothly around me, I get blocked and then have to concentrate on spinning my head/TIR in an odd fashion to get it to shift rearward.  Can be frustrating because my situational awareness suffers in dogfights due to this arbitrarily set limit.  I actually have a soft limit set on my own but this one hits long before.


EDIT:  Either way, I've been flying it a lot in multi-player lately.  Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running. 

[JudgeDredd]

I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

[Nefaro]

I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

It's because of the way they modelled the flight stick controls.

Those old birds didn't have centering detents or big springs on their sticks, like our PC hardware does.  The developers obviously made some choices as to how they would model the stick handling, and I think they were generally bad.  Pushing your stick forward of your center detent position, while still turning in a dogfight to aim, just doesn't make sense.  Having your center detent position correspond to full level flight speed would make more sense, as that is where a pilot would be holding his stick "by default" when flying straight & level.  Not pushing forward 15 to 20 percent just to keep it level or to turn slower.  ::)  The translation from a loose wire pulley system to our modern centering spring hardware could've been better.

The sensitivity scale is also troublesome.  I hear that since it's a 1:1 ratio, our joysticks will be far too sensitive because they're so much shorter than the old sticks that are FAR longer from the floor of the aircraft (thus offering a wider range of motion with more precision).  Unfortunately, we can't adjust the ratios in the game settings to match our sticks, so you gotta mess with the curves and make trade-offs.  It takes a long time to adjust to the wonky control scheme in ROF, and it takes a long time to get accustomed to it.

Despite these problems, I've been playing a lot of multi-player lately and having a blast.  Even a rare kill.  Frustrating at times, but it's also extremely fun when a Full Realism server gets fairly well populated and things are going boom.  If I get sick of my poor gunnery skills, I'll jump in a 2-seater and go do some Recon or Bombing.   

[sandman2575]

Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running. 

Coming back to RoF after spending a lot of time with WOFF can make this especially hard. You suddenly once again have to pay real attention to engine management , and make sure your needle does not *touch* the dreaded 1600 RPM.  You can push your engines ridiculously hard in WOFF, so much so that I never really even think about it.  You can also do acrobatics in WOFF that would snap your plane in two in RoF. 

...still, I find WOFF way, way harder than RoF!  But that's because I stick to SP... maybe I should give RoF MP a go.

I find the Pfalz D.III an underrated little gem, btw -- much prefer it to the Albatros, actually.

[Father Ted]

I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

It's because of the way they modelled the flight stick controls.

Those old birds didn't have centering detents or big springs on their sticks, like our PC hardware does.  The developers obviously made some choices as to how they would model the stick handling, and I think they were generally bad.  Pushing your stick forward of your center detent position, while still turning in a dogfight to aim, just doesn't make sense.  Having your center detent position correspond to full level flight speed would make more sense, as that is where a pilot would be holding his stick "by default" when flying straight & level.  Not pushing forward 15 to 20 percent just to keep it level or to turn slower.  ::)  The translation from a loose wire pulley system to our modern centering spring hardware could've been better.

The sensitivity scale is also troublesome.  I hear that since it's a 1:1 ratio, our joysticks will be far too sensitive because they're so much shorter than the old sticks that are FAR longer from the floor of the aircraft (thus offering a wider range of motion with more precision).  Unfortunately, we can't adjust the ratios in the game settings to match our sticks, so you gotta mess with the curves and make trade-offs.  It takes a long time to adjust to the wonky control scheme in ROF, and it takes a long time to get accustomed to it.

Arthur Gould Lee's first impressions of the Camel, "...her amazing lightness on the controls,lighter even than a Pup, which is gentle-sensitive, while the Camel is fierce, razor sharp.  She turns with lightning quickness to the right.  You have to be careful taking off, as the engine torque veers her to  the left and you have to apply full right rudder, but it's easy  enough when you get the knack".  Two days later, "I did twenty minutes, which brought me up to 300 hours solo [that's on all types to that date].  I tried a few stunts.  She loops practically automatically, as she is tail heavy, so much so that in level flying you have to press against the stick the whole time.  Result, if you don't press, she just goes up and over..."

Seems to me that RoF has done quite well, at least with the Camel.  I certainly agree that a longer stick-throw would make things less sensitive, though.  I've lowered my pitch-curve so that I don't have to press forward the whole time - as you say, it makes flying and shooting well-nigh impossible - but I feel a bit of a fraud when I read things like this.

[Nefaro]

Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running. 

Coming back to RoF after spending a lot of time with WOFF can make this especially hard. You suddenly once again have to pay real attention to engine management , and make sure your needle does not *touch* the dreaded 1600 RPM.  You can push your engines ridiculously hard in WOFF, so much so that I never really even think about it.  You can also do acrobatics in WOFF that would snap your plane in two in RoF. 

...still, I find WOFF way, way harder than RoF!  But that's because I stick to SP... maybe I should give RoF MP a go.

I find the Pfalz D.III an underrated little gem, btw -- much prefer it to the Albatros, actually.

I actually snap wings off much easier in WOFF.  Very much so on Nieuports in WOFF, even in flat turns.  Blowing engines isn't such a concern in it, however, and that's just fine with me.  ^-^

For some reason I've only had RPM management issues with diving in the Fokker Dr.I in ROF thus far.  The rest of the types have been just fine.  I guess it's just a quirk of the Fokker engine which must have an exceptionally low RPM limit.

ROF multi-player has been a blast.  Mostly due to the 'New Wings - Wargrounds' server and it's great custom MP missions.  There are a lot of different objectives, and a fair variety of flyables with which to achieve them.  So instead of some meaningless mash-up brawl, there is a bigger overall purpose that's done fairly well considering the limited user creation tools available to create it.  The 'Syndicate' server has a similar setup, but with fewer objectives and flyables (set in early '17 so it can be a nice change).

I'd recommend just jumping into MP after a brief re-acquaintance with ROF.  You'll end up spending much of your time flying and looking about on the Full Real servers, enjoying the view, with some occasional dogfighting/bombing/wotnot.  The engine management is pretty easy compared to sims set in later eras.

Arthur Gould Lee's first impressions of the Camel, "...her amazing lightness on the controls,lighter even than a Pup, which is gentle-sensitive, while the Camel is fierce, razor sharp.  She turns with lightning quickness to the right.  You have to be careful taking off, as the engine torque veers her to  the left and you have to apply full right rudder, but it's easy  enough when you get the knack".  Two days later, "I did twenty minutes, which brought me up to 300 hours solo [that's on all types to that date].  I tried a few stunts.  She loops practically automatically, as she is tail heavy, so much so that in level flying you have to press against the stick the whole time.  Result, if you don't press, she just goes up and over..."

Seems to me that RoF has done quite well, at least with the Camel.  I certainly agree that a longer stick-throw would make things less sensitive, though.  I've lowered my pitch-curve so that I don't have to press forward the whole time - as you say, it makes flying and shooting well-nigh impossible - but I feel a bit of a fraud when I read things like this.

I'm familiar with the stick tendencies, notably of the rotaries like the Camel.  Although the amount of push required in ROF may still be up for debate.  The Gould quote suggests that the Camel was a relatively unusual case of it eventually looping if you didn't push the nose forward, although I've read the same about the Nieuport 28. 

My concern with it is that, mixed with the overly sensitive game controls and the effect of having to move our joystick across the center detent (something that was likely much smoother in those old planes) makes it move less smoothly for us. 

[Father Ted]

My concern with it is that, mixed with the overly sensitive game controls and the effect of having to move our joystick across the center detent (something that was likely much smoother in those old planes) makes it move less smoothly for us.

Fair enough.  Also just had a quick flip in NWW (20 min, one engagement, managed to land after getting seriously wounded) and I see what you mean about the TIR.  Never noticed it before, dunno why.  I am aware though that I find it hard to track planes close-in, but I've just put that down to my ineptitude.

[Nefaro]

After only getting 0.5 kills yesterday, I finally got 2 player kills in one MP round on Wargrounds today.  Improving.  O0

[Father Ted]

Just to keep RoF out of the BoS thread...Syndicate is the place to be on Sunday evenings - there are often 50-70 fliers on.  Only snag is that I'm talking about Sunday evenings, European time.