World in Flames (Matrixgames) looking for beta testers (multiplayer)

[JudgeDredd]

I know - for a head to head game that seems very steep.

I wonder if there'll be a demo  :P

What I don't understand is Matrix have always said there will be digital download, physical and, in some circumstances, collectors editions of games - I guess the change here (physical copy only) is the cost of the manuals is so large that they simply HAVE to sell them and can't do it adhoc...therefore a physical copy is the only option.

Personally, I'm all for options. Digital Download for those that want it with a pdf, Physical with a pdf and Collectors Edition if they wish.

But that would mean potentially the price of the collectors edition being bigger because they couldn't order the bulk manuals - opting only to buy on a per order basis I guess.

Anyway - still out of my price range I think and even if it wasn't - no AI and h2h (netplay?) only automatically means it's not for me.

Also I saw how PBEM went for EiA and it wasn't pretty

[undercovergeek]

I know - for a head to head game that seems very steep.

I wonder if there'll be a demo  :P

What I don't understand is Matrix have always said there will be digital download, physical and, in some circumstances, collectors editions of games - I guess the change here (physical copy only) is the cost of the manuals is so large that they simply HAVE to sell them and can't do it adhoc...therefore a physical copy is the only option.

Personally, I'm all for options. Digital Download for those that want it with a pdf, Physical with a pdf and Collectors Edition if they wish.

But that would mean potentially the price of the collectors edition being bigger because they couldn't order the bulk manuals - opting only to buy on a per order basis I guess.

Anyway - still out of my price range I think and even if it wasn't - no AI and h2h (netplay?) only automatically means it's not for me.

Also I saw how PBEM went for EiA and it wasn't pretty

Jd has spoken the magic combination of words.... "It's out of my price range, I won't get it"




Expect his review any day

[mirth]

^hahahaha!

[JudgeDredd]

lol

I was about to say "Check me out - saying I aint getting it"  :P

However - H2H play doesn't interest me - it really doesn't. Ask Tuna - he's always trying to get me to MP and I always resist  :)

[Ubercat]

That's too bad. It's been my universal experience that no AI can ever deliver the same level of fun as playing against other humans. That's been across all genres. Abstract strategy games, serious wargames, FPS's, RTS's and MMORPG's.

[smittyohio]

That's too bad. It's been my universal experience that no AI can ever deliver the same level of fun as playing against other humans. That's been across all genres. Abstract strategy games, serious wargames, FPS's, RTS's and MMORPG's.

True, but this game is just so massive in time commitment, that H2H just seems impractical given that the small player base this will probably attract will be spread out over so many time zones, to say nothing of RL commitments, etc.

[Grim.Reaper]

Probably shouldn't bother commenting anymore since no way I will likely ever purchase, but I just don't understand the reasoning that physical manuals are a necessity for this game.  Why aren't they a necessity for other war games then that are also complicated?  Everyone in the world has been moving to electronic books (Kindle, nook, etc.) so how can anyone say that physical books are necessary?  Doesn't seem to make sense to me.   Why should they care if a person has a harder time learning the game if using a PDF?  Why don't they care about their other games having the same affect?  War in the Pacific is pretty massive, why not force physical books for that one?

I don't buy it.

[Tuna]

lol

I was about to say "Check me out - saying I aint getting it"  :P

However - H2H play doesn't interest me - it really doesn't. Ask Tuna - he's always trying to get me to MP and I always resist  :)

LOL.. you asked me if I wanted to play.. I said yes!

[JudgeDredd]

lol

I was about to say "Check me out - saying I aint getting it"  :P

However - H2H play doesn't interest me - it really doesn't. Ask Tuna - he's always trying to get me to MP and I always resist  :)

LOL.. you asked me if I wanted to play.. I said yes!

lol - Yes for CM - which I quickly bailed on - sorry. I had forgotten about that with my statement - I was remembering Rise of Flight (which I did enjoy when I tried it) and FSX and Iron Front.

I think the time zone is a problem, I'm often free when it's your lunchtime or busy doing dad stuff at the height of the day. It's difficult to get a game going.

[undercovergeek]

Probably shouldn't bother commenting anymore since no way I will likely ever purchase, but I just don't understand the reasoning that physical manuals are a necessity for this game.  Why aren't they a necessity for other war games then that are also complicated?  Everyone in the world has been moving to electronic books (Kindle, nook, etc.) so how can anyone say that physical books are necessary?  Doesn't seem to make sense to me.   Why should they care if a person has a harder time learning the game if using a PDF?  Why don't they care about their other games having the same affect?  War in the Pacific is pretty massive, why not force physical books for that one?

I don't buy it.

i have a sorry feeling that its taken that long and cost that much that they need £300 for each copy of the game. Stupid and stubborn as they are i dont think even Matrix could expect to get away with that so theyve come up with a cunning plan to throw all kinds of other shit in there you have to pay for

[JudgeDredd]

^ exactly my sentiments. They HAVE to include the physical manuals to justify the cost.

Besides...and I'll likely get burned for this...but this an unfinished product being pushed out at a premium price to get it to market. From what I gather they are going to charge more for AI...I don't know if there are plans to charge for more than 2 player and PBEM.

[Grimnirsson]

I wonder if there'll be a demo

Certainly not. Matrix is not the company known for demos...they usually say a game is too complicated to be shown in a demo blah blah and PCWiF is easily the most complex if it ever comes out.

[Grim.Reaper]

So I wonder....if physical manuals are so critical to playing, did all beta testers receive physical manuals during play testing? If not, how did they ever complete the testing without physically having them if purchasers must have them:)

[JudgeDredd]

They aren't a requirement. They're a way to justify a huge price for an over budget, under developed game. It doesn't have an AI. It doesn't have PBEM (and there are inherently problems with that anyway given the play style of the game). There are no more than 2 players allowed to play a HUGE game.

As UCG says, and I agree, they need to recoup the costs and therefore need to charge a shite load of money for a cut down computer game. They can't do that with the game itself...not without the above features at least. So they need other things there - and the manuals are it. I'm surprised they separated the map tbh. Maybe there's not a big enough profit margin in the map production. I don't know.

They are playing to the board game boys. No problem with that if that's what they've identified their market as.

I think the game looks amazing and I would love to have something like that in my library of games. But at somewhere close to £100 (including VAT in UK) for the game and then an additional charge for an AI addon - that is NOT a game I could own. And the play style sounds like a pita anyway, with pulses and turns and interventions (reaction phases). And we need to be brutally honest here - how good (anywhere near good) is an AI going to be for a game this scale? Many, many many companies have tried and failed on lesser games.

Alas they aren't targeting me anyway.

There'll be some impressions out from the boardgame lads soon - 50 copies go on sale at Essen tomorrow (today?...I think it's tomorrow).

[GJK]

So I wonder....if physical manuals are so critical to playing, did all beta testers receive physical manuals during play testing? If not, how did they ever complete the testing without physically having them if purchasers must have them:)

There's a "Rules as Coded" word doc that has been made available to the playtesters.  I don't know and won't speculate on whether that is what will make it in to the hard back books or not.

I don't know why Matrix made the decision that you have to get the physical copy with the books.  Perhaps (speculating) they have a great (and cheap) printing press arrangement made and by throwing in the nice hardbound rulebooks it "justifies" the $125 (or so) price for the game;  A game that comes with no AI or Pbem support (at this time). 

All pure speculation, I have no insider info.

Edit:  Me and JD are on the same wave length this morning, posting the same thought at the same time.  Today may be a strange one folks and if you never, ever hear from me again....well it's been real.