Game DRM

[JudgeDredd]

You know - having just built my new PC it's become very apparent the minefield we have allowed ourselves to be drawn into regarding DRM.

My own experience has shown that because of the different types, things go wrong. And remember - I built a new PC - I haven't suffered a drive failure.

1. Limited activations - having to know what games have limited activations
2. Deactivation - trying to remember which games you have to de-activate
3. Limited downloads - did you really burn that exe to disk - and if so does the disk actually work
4. Different providers - where you got a game
5. Different details required - some need login details, some need credit card details, some need order numbers and some just need the game key

With rebuilding my machine, I've encountered the following issues
1. De-activated all my DCS stuff - BUT because I had Black Shark 1 it wasn't in my DCS World folder and therefore escaped my attention - lost a de-activation
2. Didn't de-activate my OOTP13 - forgot about it. Having only 2 activations, and now losing one, I had to de-activate the game on my laptop in order to activate it on my PC. Not knowing about the save game structure I couldn't get my league loaded - so I decided to use the opportunity to buy OOTP14
3. Combat Mission - by far my worst experience. You cannot de-activate their games. I hadn't bought CM:SF from Battlefront, I had bought it from Gamersgate. So I had to re-download it from Gamersgate. I installed it and activated it and it was fine. BUT - I had CM:Marines, CM:Nato and CM:British Forces - all of which would not activate. The download links had all been disabled (no longer available) but I did have the disks...but I still couldn't activate them...so I had to complete a support ticket at Battlefront...and now I wait.

However - on top of that, I'm not sure of the patching process....they say on the website you don't have to patch to 1.2 but then there's a patch to update the game to Battlefront (not Paradox/Gamersgate). Is there just one all encompassing patch? Do I have to install all patches? Nightmare.

There was of course Steam - which was by far the easiest. Install a game and you have the updated game on your disk. That's it. Of course there has been a mention of getting locked out and Steam's customer support being shit - but still - when it's working - how smooth and what a breath of fresh air.

Just wanted to air that - it's been/is a pain in the arse!

[bob48]

What an absolute nightmare. You have more patience than me JD - I would have lost my cool completely with all that.

[Nefaro]

Just wanted to air that - it's been/is a pain in the arse!

I'm really dreading building a new one.  Not because it'll take a little time and more than a little money.  But because of all the m'fing DRM deactivations I'm gonna have to attempt finding and performing properly on the old machine.  Fookeen nightmare!

I fully expect to have to deal with some customer service somewhere along the lines, to be able to get something to activate again.  Most likely more than one.  >:(

[JudgeDredd]

DCS = limited activations and supports deactivation - their activations are not too bad though because they "replenish" I believe

OOTP - 2 activations. Want more, ask.

Battlefront (CM) - limited activations - I thought they didn't support deactivation (sure I read it) and therefore I didn't deactivate them - but the support ticket has been returned informing me I am meant to deactivate (I'm POSITIVE I read you couldn't deactivate their games)...want more - ASK.

[Darkspire]

It's posts like yours that really make me realize that my decision to not have anything to do with steam or any form of DRM was a very wise move, there have been a few games that I would have liked but the cons far outweigh the pros, sadly while folks are still buying the software and putting up with all the hassle that goes with it it will never go away. Only got caught out once with Mass Effect, but got the money back as the DRM was not mentioned on the box, fortunately It never even made it as far as leaving the box as I looked online for a patch first and found the DRM words everywhere, I have a similar list for a rebuild situation that has all the utility software on 6 DVD's, I wrote a batch file to put everything back on once the OS is installed,  all I have to do is swap disks every time the red alert from Star Trek goes off, shame that sort of thing can not be done to help folks like yourself with this DRM c**p.

Darkspire

[Bison]

Battlefront (CM) - limited activations - I thought they didn't support deactivation (sure I read it) and therefore I didn't deactivate them - but the support ticket has been returned informing me I am meant to deactivate (I'm POSITIVE I read you couldn't deactivate their games)...want more - ASK.

The ability depends on the game.  The new CMBN/CMFI cannot be deactivated.  You get like 3/yr with 1/yr added on to your activations or some such nonsense.  However an email to support will result with a quick reply and a activation reset, which has been my experience.]

The older games do allow for a deactivation. 

[Tuna]

With My CPU upgrade.. I will say.. at least Battlefront responded the next day and I opened the ticket on a Saturday...

DCS responded like a month later, when I went online on my own found what registry keys to delete and lost some activations...

Darkspire.. when building a New PC, Steam is awesome.. you just install everything.. right from Steam.. on as many PCs as you have in your house..

[undercovergeek]

With My CPU upgrade.. I will say.. at least Battlefront responded the next day and I opened the ticket on a Saturday...

DCS responded like a month later, when I went online on my own found what registry keys to delete and lost some activations...

Darkspire.. when building a New PC, Steam is awesome.. you just install everything.. right from Steam.. on as many PCs as you have in your house..

+1

If I took anything from JDs post, and having done the same earlier this year, it was what a godsend steam was compared to the rest

But haters gotta hate and let the world know how evil steam is

[Greybriar]

It's stories like those in this thread that caused me to buy most of my games from GOG.com.

[mirth]

Makes me glad I have such a huge backlog of games that predate modern DRM.

[Nefaro]

But haters gotta hate and let the world know how evil steam is

[Toonces]

My feelings on this have evolved a lot over the last few years. 

I think I just have tiers of games now.

First there are the non-DRM, GoG type games...I'm talking about those games with pretty much unlimited installs, maybe serial-number based.

Then there are my Steam games.  Extremely easy to continue to install over and over, until Steam goes TU someday.  But for now, extremely convenient and perhaps even my preferred means of purchasing games.  Can't beat having everything in a library, patched, and ready to go at a moment's notice, workshop, and all that.

Finally, there are my headache-DRM games.  These are games/add-ons I've bought, but I have no expectation of having them forever.  In a sense, I consider them "throw-away" games.  I'm talking things like Battlefront games (CM, etc.), add-on planes for FSX, DCS sort of...games that have install limits or weird activations...limited downloads, whatever.  I pick and choose which of these games to buy, but I don't expect them to live forever.  I enjoy them while I can, but someday I know they will die and I will be sad but I'll just move on.

I hate that it is like this, but it just is.  I try to enjoy the games I have, and I have the core that I know will always be with me, but more often I have games that become hardware-limited before they become DRM-limited.  So I've stopped being so worried about DRM as I might have used to be.

[JudgeDredd]

Steam was the shining light.

I know...I know...one day somehow that's going to bite my arse - but in this instance, Steam was the one which was FAR superior and VERY easy. No pissing around with different patches for different versions of different games....I selected a game in my library and it installed - with the correct and latest patches.

Battlefront, to be fair, responded last night soon after I emailed them - however, they did make it clear that I was meant to de-activate and that I won't be having many keys in the future if it happens again and that I would have to buy the games again. I do think that is totally wrong. They implemented a system that can cause you to lose keys - if I can give them my game key and order number WHF can they turn round and say "Sorry you have to buy the game again".

You could argue it was my fault this time - I could counter that by saying how the hell is anyone meant to remember (given the minefield of different DRM's) what games need de-activating AND the differing deactivation systems (just look at their own system - you apparently don't de-activate later ones but do earlier ones!!). Also - what about hardware failures?

Battlefront are way out of line imo saying you would have to buy the game again.

So now rather than enjoying their games you have to now go an document what games to de-activate and how to de-activate. Also, with their new system, You have to go to a website to get a new activation key...it's not just added to your account? Total bullshit.

I can guarantee one thing...the day I run out of keys and they say "Sorry you've got to buy the game again" is the day they can kiss my arse for the money.

I've still not had an email regarding the keys though...just the one last night explaining I was a bad boy.

For the record, this is the response...it even says in there some uninstallers will prompt and some won't. And as I've already pointed out - I'm sure their games didn't require deactivation...so I will now have to go and check each games documentation.


*********************
I have forwarded your request for a license key 'reset' for your CMSF license keys. Martin will email you once he has done this.

As a reminder about eLicense's functionality:

When you attempt to license the game and you get the 'error 11' that indicates that the license has been activated on two other computers/occasions and that there are no more activations left without UNLICENSING a previous installation/activation. To unlicense a game requires that it still be installed and that the computer have an internet connection (to communicate to the license servers). Admittedly it is not always possible to unlicense (hardware malfunctions, operating system problems/infections, etc.). What we can do is 'reset' the license key to allow for another activation. However we can only do this a few times before the license key becomes inactive and you would have to purchase the game again to get a usable license key. Because of this we try to reserve 'resets' to those occasions when a customer cannot unlicense previous installs (such as hard drive crashes, virus/trojan infections, OS reinstalls, etc.).

A license key can be licensed and unlicensed countless times, but only two installations can have the license key 'active' at the same time. Uninstalling a game DOES NOT UNLICENSE it. These are separate actions, though some of the uninstallers will prompt to unlicense the game, while many others will not. You need to UNLICENSE the game BEFORE performing any of the following:

1) Reformatting the hard drive ('clean' OS reinstalls, etc.).
2) Reinstalling or Upgrading the OS.
3) Any major hardware changes, primarily any of the following: a new motherboard, a new CPU, a new video card (new non-boot hard drives should not be an issue).
4) Disposing/selling the computer or boot hard drive.
5) Uninstalling the game permanently from a computer.
===
Check out our Knowledge Base at www.battlefront.com/helpdesk

[JudgeDredd]

The ability depends on the game.  The new CMBN/CMFI cannot be deactivated.  You get like 3/yr with 1/yr added on to your activations or some such nonsense.  However an email to support will result with a quick reply and a activation reset, which has been my experience.]

The older games do allow for a deactivation.

Maybe it's that documentation I read...so never bothered with any of them. What bullshit.

[Anguille]

That's really a terrible story...

I try to avoid DRMs as much as possible and limit myself to only a few distribution sites, GOG being the best, followed by Matrix.  Then it's impulse and gamersgate which are decent imho.