Most powerful storm ever to hit landfall

[endfire79]

Yes, things messed up and *it* happens from time to time sadly.  I know it's corny, but things like this can bring out the worst in people, however it can also bring out the best in them in a way.  I'd prefer to let the people in the Philippines judge their own government and authorities.  I don't they would appreciate me telling them what should have been done right after mother nature decided to rip them up a new one. 

I hope this storm does not batter the rest of the neighboring countries as bad.  Projections had shown it going towards central & northern Vietnam. 

[GDS_Starfury]

Ask yourself how long it should take to clear an airport runway by hand? How long to restore backup power? Knowing that all airports designated as international or significant regional have to have it? We are not talking local standards but international standards.

Somewhere in the chain of command somone didn't give the order andOr make it happen. Third world means poor, not stupid.

I dont need to ask myself, Ive seen the aftermath of quite a few hurricanes first hand.  Wilma and Andrew come to mind.  Ive seen streets and highways covered in debris for weeks after.  how many hurricanes have you lived through and delt with for months afterwards?

[LongBlade]

Ask yourself how long it should take to clear an airport runway by hand? How long to restore backup power? Knowing that all airports designated as international or significant regional have to have it? We are not talking local standards but international standards.

Somewhere in the chain of command somone didn't give the order andOr make it happen. Third world means poor, not stupid.

I dont need to ask myself, Ive seen the aftermath of quite a few hurricanes first hand.  Wilma and Andrew come to mind.  Ive seen streets and highways covered in debris for weeks after.  how many hurricanes have you lived through and delt with for months afterwards?

<raises hand> Two big ones. Several smaller ones.

My wife's territory used to include the Florida panhandle so she got to help them pick up after multiple ones.

[Smuckatelli]

principles may be the same but the ability to act on those principles is not.  now stop being such an elitist snob.  its unbecoming a socialist like you.

Ask yourself how long it should take to clear an airport runway by hand? How long to restore backup power? Knowing that all airports designated as international or significant regional have to have it? We are not talking local standards but international standards.

Somewhere in the chain of command somone didn't give the order andOr make it happen. Third world means poor, not stupid.

Windy, I've set up a few FARPs in my time.....I am by no means an expert but I was sitting at the beginning of the runway holding on to the GAIL.

Getting a runway clear is not that difficult, run a bulldozer and you're done. The press gives the why aren't planes coming in while the Smucks in life will spend the next few weeks removing FOD from within 500 meters of the 'cleared' runway. Still the runway won't be ready for anything but touch and goes; no off loading of supplies because that will close down the runway unless you have a designated area........at least 500 meters from the runway...which means the Smucks have to clear that fucking area of FOD also.

They would be better to first clear the FOD hazards from around the airfield and then clearing the runway. If they clear the runway first every Smuck in the world will be pressuring them to play LAX. A couple geese brought down an airliner picture what all the post hurricane debris would do to an aircraft.

Aircraft can't run doglegs for an extended period of time, they have to land eventually and until the infrastructure is rebuilt.......we are going to have to stick with helicopters.

Regarding the International Standards; they are not really followed in some of these places. Bangui was/is an International Airport by standard, yet it still took over a week to prepare it to receive shipments for Rwanda back in 1993. It was the jump off point for all supplies going into Rwanda. Massive amounts of supplies were dropped of there and transferred to smaller aircraft.

No typhoon, just WAWA and it still took over a week before the supply aircraft could come in drop supplies and get out. 

[Windigo]

principles may be the same but the ability to act on those principles is not.  now stop being such an elitist snob.  its unbecoming a socialist like you.

Ask yourself how long it should take to clear an airport runway by hand? How long to restore backup power? Knowing that all airports designated as international or significant regional have to have it? We are not talking local standards but international standards.

Somewhere in the chain of command somone didn't give the order andOr make it happen. Third world means poor, not stupid.

Windy, I've set up a few FARPs in my time.....I am by no means an expert but I was sitting at the beginning of the runway holding on to the GAIL.

Getting a runway clear is not that difficult, run a bulldozer and you're done. The press gives the why aren't planes coming in while the Smucks in life will spend the next few weeks removing FOD from within 500 meters of the 'cleared' runway. Still the runway won't be ready for anything but touch and goes; no off loading of supplies because that will close down the runway unless you have a designated area........at least 500 meters from the runway...which means the Smucks have to clear that fucking area of FOD also.

They would be better to first clear the FOD hazards from around the airfield and then clearing the runway. If they clear the runway first every Smuck in the world will be pressuring them to play LAX. A couple geese brought down an airliner picture what all the post hurricane debris would do to an aircraft.

Aircraft can't run doglegs for an extended period of time, they have to land eventually and until the infrastructure is rebuilt.......we are going to have to stick with helicopters.

Regarding the International Standards; they are not really followed in some of these places. Bangui was/is an International Airport by standard, yet it still took over a week to prepare it to receive shipments for Rwanda back in 1993. It was the jump off point for all supplies going into Rwanda. Massive amounts of supplies were dropped of there and transferred to smaller aircraft.

No typhoon, just WAWA and it still took over a week before the supply aircraft could come in drop supplies and get out.

You are right about FOD hazards (at last!!! some military related acronyms I can understand - had to look up GAIL though)). My favorite FOD hazards are caribou herds.

Now that the USN carrier George Washington is on scene bringing equipment and trained personel to bear, I think the situation will like clockwork in 48 hours.

Latest BNs I have recieved indicated that the main airport at Tacloban, was partially opened late Monday.... but couldn't really take heavy lifters until today (thurday). A few flew over and dropped and even fewer landed, but it seems that its now a 24/7 airport for them.

I also read in an earlier BN that the government services in the area (including police and infrastructure/maintenence) simply ceased to be effective for 48 hours afterwards. Understandably because their families got hit too and they'd have priority with the workers, but thats why you bring in help from outside the region (before hand)... they aren't nearly as distracted.

[GDS_Starfury]

Windy, I've had a few FWAPs in my time.....

fixed!  ;)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

principles may be the same but the ability to act on those principles is not.  now stop being such an elitist snob.  its unbecoming a socialist like you.

Ask yourself how long it should take to clear an airport runway by hand? How long to restore backup power? Knowing that all airports designated as international or significant regional have to have it? We are not talking local standards but international standards.

Somewhere in the chain of command somone didn't give the order andOr make it happen. Third world means poor, not stupid.

Windy, I've set up a few FARPs in my time.....I am by no means an expert but I was sitting at the beginning of the runway holding on to the GAIL.

Getting a runway clear is not that difficult, run a bulldozer and you're done. The press gives the why aren't planes coming in while the Smucks in life will spend the next few weeks removing FOD from within 500 meters of the 'cleared' runway. Still the runway won't be ready for anything but touch and goes; no off loading of supplies because that will close down the runway unless you have a designated area........at least 500 meters from the runway...which means the Smucks have to clear that fucking area of FOD also.

They would be better to first clear the FOD hazards from around the airfield and then clearing the runway. If they clear the runway first every Smuck in the world will be pressuring them to play LAX. A couple geese brought down an airliner picture what all the post hurricane debris would do to an aircraft.

Aircraft can't run doglegs for an extended period of time, they have to land eventually and until the infrastructure is rebuilt.......we are going to have to stick with helicopters.

Regarding the International Standards; they are not really followed in some of these places. Bangui was/is an International Airport by standard, yet it still took over a week to prepare it to receive shipments for Rwanda back in 1993. It was the jump off point for all supplies going into Rwanda. Massive amounts of supplies were dropped of there and transferred to smaller aircraft.

No typhoon, just WAWA and it still took over a week before the supply aircraft could come in drop supplies and get out.

You are right about FOD hazards (at last!!! some military related acronyms I can understand - had to look up GAIL though)). My favorite FOD hazards are caribou herds.

Now that the USN carrier George Washington is on scene bringing equipment and trained personel to bear, I think the situation will like clockwork in 48 hours.

Latest BNs I have recieved indicated that the main airport at Tacloban, was partially opened late Monday.... but couldn't really take heavy lifters until today (thurday). A few flew over and dropped and even fewer landed, but it seems that its now a 24/7 airport for them.

I also read in an earlier BN that the government services in the area (including police and infrastructure/maintenence) simply ceased to be effective for 48 hours afterwards. Understandably because their families got hit too and they'd have priority with the workers, but thats why you bring in help from outside the region (before hand)... they aren't nearly as distracted.

What is a BN?

[GDS_Starfury]

briefing note

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

http://www.reuters.com/video/2013/11/14/uk-s-korea-send-generators-tents-cars-to?videoId=274530582&videoChannel=1

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

"...Leyte and Samar are among the poorest provinces. Had more people lived in robust housing instead of shanty towns by the shore, fewer lives would have been lost. Politics is a chief reason why the poor are not better off. In the Philippines a patron-client system of political power is sustained by pork-barrel spending. It breeds endemic corruption and it entrenches powerful families with little incentive to improve the lives of ordinary Filipinos. Mr Aquino has promised to change this, but has more to do. Meanwhile, the central government's writ remains pitifully small.

But economic growth is only half the story. In late 2011 Typhoon Sendong hit a part of the southern Philippines that is not usually in the storms' path. When Typhoon Pablo hit a year later, the town was readier, and fewer lives were lost. Early-warning systems, drills and better zoning all help. The Asian Development Bank advocates "stress tests" for vulnerable places rather like stress tests on financial institutions. The recently elected leader of Tacloban is said to have cared little for such distractions. Let us hope he will now."
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21589883-responding-disaster-essential-so-preparing-next-stress-test

[LongBlade]

Not that it makes the disaster any less tragic, but there seems to have been a strange amount of hype surrounding this typhoon.

[GDS_Starfury]

it was the sheer size of it.  Andrew was just as nasty but it wasnt 500 miles across.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Not that it makes the disaster any less tragic, but there seems to have been a strange amount of hype surrounding this typhoon.

How many were positioned to drive a storm surge up a bay like a funnel? Lets see a list of storm surge at landfall (especially where there is a city) then we can discuss hype.

[endfire79]

The question is, has Windy seen bigger?   ;)

[Windigo]

The question is, has Windy seen bigger?   ;)

if you express storms as energy size does matter, not just speed