Well, THAT sucked!

[BanzaiCat]

Just got Phantom Leader for the iPad to play around with while my daughter was at piano tonight. I read through the rules and had a rudimentary idea of what I was doing. I'd played similar games before (Hornet Leader and Thunderbolt/Apache Leader), and some of that logic remained embedded in my thick skull. Apparently, not enough, though.

I chose to play a short USN 1972 campaign - 4 days. My first target choice was a set of river barges. And of course, they were heavily (I mean HEAVILY) protected by AA guns. They must have been Ho Chi Minh's "comfort women" barges or something.

Anyway, I had five jets going in. All were Phantom IIs so I felt I was getting a good feel for the game; the pilots weren't noobs but they weren't Mavericks and Gooses. However, I managed to fly them right into a deathtrap. The AA guns were enormously effective, as were the missile batteries; I outfitted each Phantom II with an ECM pod, but I might as well had them spit at what was being fired at them, because 80% of the rolls for those pods failed. Their attack rolls were horrendously good while my Evade rolls were all terrible. I managed to get each of the five jets shot down.

Next, anyone who gets shot down gets a chance at rescue; the margin's not very wide but it's not slim either. Of course, I failed each of the five rescue rolls, so each pilot (why there's no RIO, I'm not sure) was MIA.

So much for my start as a squadron leader. I got some studyin' to do.

(Not posted in the AAR thread as this technically isn't one, but anyone who has played this game, I'd love your feedback/strategy for it.)

[Barthheart]

 :)

Told you it wasn't easy.

You really need to choose your airframes based on the target.
Lots of radar AAA? Take some planes that carry stand off weapons you can fire from Hi Alt.
Lots of enemy fighters? Take planes that are nothing but AA missile carriers.
Don't go for high VP targets unless you've got the right mix of aircraft.
Do the longer campaigns first... sounds odd but you actually have a better chance of winning. Short campaigns make you take high risk targets to get enough VP's in time...

[BanzaiCat]

Thanks, Barthheart. One of my major mistakes was loading every plane with close to the same loadout...at least one AAM, some with two, then Mk84s and Mk82s and a few other bombs. I'm going to go over these weapons more carefully and create some dedicated platforms.

I didn't think I'd get my ass handed to me quite that bad, but it's a good thing. It'll make me come back for more. This game looks great and I like how the interface ties into the rules. Also like the political aspects of it, although if I could bomb some NVA hospitals or had an atom bomb or two, I'd use 'em without hesitation. Then again I'm a sick bastard.  :D I guess I'll just have to work with the tools that the game provides for now!

[Nefaro]

Varied loadouts tailored for taking out the biggest threats before you're in their firing envelope is one thing that pays off, in addition to simply avoiding some of the defenses by staying out of their altitude and/or range while still being able to arrive at your own proper release altitude & range over the target.  Figuring out the least dangerous flight path through the target area is also essential as is planning out your ideal weapon usage every turn, on the way in.   

It's cool because you have to juggle multiple needs and limitations to best effect.  :)  I'm probably gonna pick up the tabletop Hornet Leader sometime in the future since I've enjoyed this stuff so much.

[jomni]

Plan your moves even from the start. 
Know if there are more high or low level defenses.
Bring fast pilots and equip them to take care of the defenses (air or land) before they can shoot back.
Rockets are a good addition to your arsenal since they have range.

[BanzaiCat]

Had a little time last night to try one more time. This time I chose a 1967 USN short campaign and went more Intruders, thinking I'd use those for ground attack and use Phantoms as anti-air platforms. My target was a truck park that needed 6 points of damage, but if I did more than that (10 or more I think) I'd get politically hit for it. Hell, I just wanted to destroy a target at this point; I wasn't worried about no silly "overkill" clause.

Not that I had to worry about that last bit, because I didn't destroy the target. I took two Phantoms and three Intruders - I think one of the Intruders was a Wild Weasel type. I had them all approach what I thought would be the easiest sector, but then the inflight event decided to add an extra unit to each approach zone. I was hosed.

First enemy action was something like this:

Phantom II fired on by AAA
Phantom II ECM roll failed (of course) (are ECM pods pretty much a useless use of a WP?)
Phantom II evade roll failed (of course)
AAA hits and damages plane

I did do better on this one as 'only' two of my five planes were shot down (of course, both failed Rescue rolls and the pilots/crews went MIA), and I did manage to put four points of damage on the target (falling just a tad short).

That's progress, though!

Are you guys finding it hard to get through one mission without having a plane shot down?

[Barthheart]

Haven't played in a while but I don't remember losing as many planes as you seem to.  :o
You really need fast pilots to take out AAA to clear a path like jomni says.
The wild weasel should have really helped as well.
Like I said try the longer campaigns, you get more stuff and less pressure to perform well on every turn.

[Nefaro]

Definitely take a Fast pilot or two so they can (hopefully) take out the most deadly AA or fighters before they can fire on you the first turn.  Between planning that out and your first turn placement, you should be able to minimize the initial risk and possibly eliminate it altogether.  Then, every turn you move forward, get your Fast pilot(s) into a position to once again take out the biggest threat that can attack your units in the new location(s).   All the way to the bank, baby!

Also keep in mind that Slow Pilots can expend ordnance to attempt nullifying an enemy unit's attack, if within range/alt.  So between the Fast Pilots killing targets before they fire, and your Slow Pilots having the option of neutralizing an attack with their own weapons, you should be able to keep the biggest threats at bay.  You'll often still have to take some fire but hopefully it's from the weakest enemy units that have the lowest chance of causing you ill.

[JasonPratt]

I suspect the AAA guns weren't radar guided either (or had a by-eye option) which would render any ECM useless.

(But I haven't played the game, so who knows?)

[Nefaro]

I suspect the AAA guns weren't radar guided either (or had a by-eye option) which would render any ECM useless.

(But I haven't played the game, so who knows?)

ECM pods work against pretty much anything, in the game, but they have to be rolled for to be effective and they need a fairly good roll to work (like 8+ on a d10?? IIRC?).  I definitely don't count on them stopping everything but perhaps lending a little extra breathing room or less Pilot Stress after the mission is done.   I don't recall taking them all that habitually in either Hornet Leader or Phantom Leader, unless I expected to fly through an unusually high amount of fire and the primary target didn't require a lot of hits.   They can definitely pay off at times, if you can spare the pylon, but that's not always the case.

[JasonPratt]

Seems like a HARM on the pylon would pay off more certainly.

[Nefaro]

Seems like a HARM on the pylon would pay off more certainly.

More like a Shrike or Standard ARM if he's playing Phantom Leader.

[BanzaiCat]

I want nukes, dammit!  ;D

[Barthheart]

I want nukes, dammit!  ;D

Most of the time all I want is an F-15!  :P

[Nefaro]

I think it's time for a CharlieSheen-ism:





"Most of the time — and this includes naps — I'm an F-18, bro. And I will destroy you in the air. I will deploy my ordinance to the ground."

;D