Godzilla Reboot coming 2014

[Steelgrave]

Indeed, but what mystifies me is there's almost always, invariably, some form of hate out there...and there's nothing for this movie that I can see. Very odd.

One local reviewer on our Phoenix morning news gave it a very negative review while going gaga over two artsy movies I've never heard of. Literally the only negative review I've seen or heard and dismissed immediately in my mind. Like you kids say, haters gonna hate.

[DoctorQuest]

Indeed, but what mystifies me is there's almost always, invariably, some form of hate out there...and there's nothing for this movie that I can see. Very odd.

One local reviewer on our Phoenix morning news gave it a very negative review while going gaga over two artsy movies I've never heard of. Literally the only negative review I've seen or heard and dismissed immediately in my mind. Like you kids say, haters gonna hate.

I tend to go with the idea that critics are failed artists. I am sure "Escape From New York" did not get any critical aclaim but nonetheless I LOVED IT!! (Snaaaaaaake Plissken. I heard you were dead.)

[Steelgrave]

Indeed, but what mystifies me is there's almost always, invariably, some form of hate out there...and there's nothing for this movie that I can see. Very odd.

One local reviewer on our Phoenix morning news gave it a very negative review while going gaga over two artsy movies I've never heard of. Literally the only negative review I've seen or heard and dismissed immediately in my mind. Like you kids say, haters gonna hate.

I tend to go with the idea that critics are failed artists. I am sure "Escape From New York" did not get any critical aclaim but nonetheless I LOVED IT!! (Snaaaaaaake Plissken. I heard you were dead.)

Agreed. and +1 for weaving Snake Plissken into a thread  8)

[BanzaiCat]

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, teach.

Those who have no clue, review.

Uhh...waitasecond...

;)

[bob48]

I might go see this, but if Puff Daddy/Puff Diddy/Puff Whateverthef*ck comes out and starts covering a Led Zep tune in the middle of the movie, I'm outtie and demanding my money back.

Agree with you there. What the hell was Page thinking of.

[Staggerwing]

What the hell was Page thinking of.

Same as every male escort in history: he really needed the money.

[Centurion40]

Two thumbs up!

[JasonPratt]

Two thumbs sideways. Uh, not in the old original gladiator meaning.

Short review before bed: slightly above average for a Godzilla movie. (And yes, note the qualifier.) I would entertain arguments of it being slightly below average.

This is coming from someone who prefers Godzilla being a hero(ish) figure, by the way, so I assure y'all that wasn't one of my problems. (I understand the Toho chief reported in the thread above: Godzilla has been back to being a serious threat since 1984, and that's a long time with no variation in character.) Nor do I think pacing is the problem exactly, or even focusing on the bland soldier character. There's almost always something MUTO or/and Godzilla related going on. (And yes, notice how I said that.) The film feels sufficiently focused in that regard. For a nearly 2 hour movie, I thought it hadn't quite gotten to 90 minutes, and I mean that as a compliment. When one character leaves the film around the 40 minute mark, I thought less than 30 had gone by. (Checked by clock to be sure.)

I may have more comments tomorrow, a non-spoilery comment and a more spoilery one. (Though pretty much the reviews and trailers spoil anything significant already. I doubt I would have been more impressed, but they don't help. They may actively lead to mood whiplash. For which I have a theory.)


I'll put it this way. If my brother doesn't want to go see it tomorrow, I'm not going back. I'll go if he wants to, but I'd rather spend the time showing him Pacific Rim, or heck one of several other Godzilla films he hasn't seen. Will I buy it on Blu? Yes, but I'm a completist. It wasn't a soul-shattering disappointment -- far from it -- but for being only the 4th G film I've ever seen in a theater (2 back in the 70s, and the GINO film in 98 -- which I don't really count), I wish it had been better. There's a better film in it somewhere, too, I'm fairly sure.

I'll put it another way. I loathe the design of Minya in Son of Godzilla (and have ever since I was a young boy), and can't stand most of what he does in that film. But everything considered, I have a pretty high regard for that film overall (which yes surprises even me), and I'd rank it higher than G2014. As in, given a choice, I'd rather watch SoG again.

Also, G in this film seems like Minya grown up to be a semi-competent badass.

Let your mind dwell on that a while.

DWELL ON IT....!!!

[Centurion40]

JP's qualifier is apt. This is a Godzilla movie we're discussing here, not the Godfather. I've always had an appreciation for Godzilla movies, but I am not a devotee.

This version of Godzilla is a monster movie, in the spirit of the early originals- minus the dude in a rubber suit. The actors are accomplished, the drama and tension are real; the effects are spectacular.

Was it perfect? No. But for a Godzilla movie, IMHO, they hit this one out of the park.

[JasonPratt]

I'd say it's in the spirit of the later originals -- the Showa era after Destroy All Monsters (which I think G2014 is better than, but I think DAM is overrated).

Specifically, Godzilla's function and relation to the military is about the same as Godzilla vs the Smog Monster/Hedorah (which I think is a significantly better film in most regards, minus the direct quality comparison of the sfx of course; but then I would argue GvSMHed is the 2nd best of the whole set of films after the unique position and the merits of the original G54. So my opinion on relative quality of G films isn't usual.)

[BanzaiCat]

STILL waiting for an Ultraman reboot...

[JasonPratt]

(To Banzai-Cat -- actually Ultraman has been running pretty steadily since those days, just not where most Americans can see it. A big-budget film would surely be awesome. Unless they made it like G2014, in which case it would be kind of interesting.  :P )

I fraternally anticipate questions. Let the non-spoilery FAQ commence!

Seriously, your argument was invalid the moment you said Smog Monster was not only better but the 2nd best of the whole set so far!

That wasn't a question, O fictional FAQ interlocutor, but I understand and accept the qualification. If possible, try to watch GvsSM before or after G2014 -- the order won't matter. Think of it as a critical experiment. ("We shall see. It will be an experiment." -- said by the scientist Dad in GvsSM, and by no one at any time in G2014.  :P )

We sense there may be a thematic connection between your top G-films if Smog and Sonof are in the top lists.

SonofG isn't in my top five, but it's probably in isn't far from the top 10 -- which I can't say about G2014 -- and yes, critically looking back over my favorites, actual science being done in the science fiction (even if the science is more like science fantasy in topic) does seem to make a big difference. Shockingly little science is being done in this film (though most of my favorite parts involve what little exploration they do), to the point where the military flat ignores the (apparently?) only two scientists they wanted on hand (they completely ignore the woman, and Ken Watanabe's Dr. Serizawa really fills the Steve Martin role in the localization of G54 -- a role and film I happen to much enjoy so that isn't my problem) in order to try something again that has demonstrably WITHIN THE KNOWN PAST HISTORY OF THE FILM'S OWN STORY never once worked in the past and which they of all people should know isn't going to work this time. For which I have some other problems but I'll save that for the spoiler FAQ.

Wait, hold up, go back: they hired Ken Watanabe of all people as "Dr. Serizawa" to fill the Steve Martin role? -- or the analogous but far less colorful role of the Japanese reporter in the original? That's... that's...

Insane. Yes. By no means whatever does he approach filling the Dr. Serizawa character he's named after. They're both scientists, that's it. If he had been named "Dr. Martin" that would have been more appropriately accurate.

I'll go farther. "Dr. Serizawa" fills the role of "Mr. Martin" in the American localization of G84/85. I mean EXACTLY fills that role, for all practical purposes. Minus the Dr. Pepper swilling ding-dong in the command center thank God. But still.

Dwell on that for a while. DWELL ON IT...!

But we saw him doing science-y things in the trailers and in the stills!

You've seen practically all of it. His role as scientist ends for all practical purposes off-screen fifteen minutes before he crosses paths with Cranston's Brody character. And yes they're both awesome, Cranston arguably much moreso. I'd even argue Cranston (the other main scientist by the way) is too awesome (too awesome) to share screen time with Godzilla. And the producers agreed, so it never once happens.

Maybe you just have some kind of scientist bias which is important to you but otherwise makes no difference to the quality of the film.

Which would be funny, considering I'm actually a trinitarian Christian apologist (who is often accused by people who don't know me of being anti-scientific). I'm a theologian by ideological hobby not a scientist, though I do like and admire science.

No, what grates on me here is (1) that there is an honored tradition of actual science-fiction in the G films; (2) which the writer/producer/directors are clearly aware of because they do include some nods in that direction and named their Steve Martin-function character after the self-sacrificing tormented heroic scientist character from the first film who alone is able to defeat the unstoppable apocalyptic monster with his equally dangerous science; (3) but they named THEIR STEVE MARTIN CHARACTER after DOCTOR SERIZAWA! Or I guess they tried to blend the characters but got waaaaaay too much Steve Martin into their Serizawa, while leaving out everything of the Serizawa character other than "Japanese scientist". And then left out most of the "scientist" part except for informed (and expository informing) ability.

Okay enough of the dwelling on Dr. Serizawa's character and whatever it was you thought hugely anti-worked there. You were jibbering earlier about G looking like Minya grew up to be a semi-competent badass?? What the heck did that mean?

Not sure I can talk about that without spoilers. You noticed how he looks all slouchy and mopey sort of in the stills and trailers, with a strangely small head and puffy head-and-body, right? And strangely small feet. The film focuses on those weirdly small feet pretty much one time, by the way (at the airport scene some people saw waaaay back at whatever convention the director first showed footage), and then never shows them again. Probably because they look freakishly silly for such a large creature. Or for almost any creature with those body proportions. I have a theory about that, but I may wait until a more spoilery-faq to talk about it...

Wait, you aren't seriously saying the Godzilla in this film is Minya grown up are you?!?

No, unfortunately not. And I say "unfortunately" because I would respect and maybe even admire that. The Heisei era films (the 2nd series) did pretty well with the baby Godzilla in two out of three films (the middle film he was in total Minya mode and it hurt -- by no coincidence the worst film of that series despite the interesting idea of a Space-Godzilla with interesting abilities distinct from Godzilla), and even ended with little G growing up to take over as the new King of Monsters who would presumably be friendlier to humans. (That's a bit of a spoiler for a film that's been out since the mid 90s, sorry.) A lot of fans were looking forward to seeing a new series based on that new G, which absolutely didn't happen. So if something like that explained Godzilla's physical characteristics and behaviors in this movie, I'd be impressed.

And I even am impressed with their explanation for Godzilla and the Mutos (whom they never once call anything other than Muto by the way, notwithstanding the newspaper review upthread. And that's okay I guess, although it's a bit weird in some other regards which I'll get to later.) Their explanation brilliantly avoids needing an origin film for Godzilla, and easily sets up the possibility of future films perhaps even including almost any of the prior Toho stable in new forms (though they've kind of already shot their wads with Mothra and Rodan, especially Rodan who will be hard to make a distinct monster after this. But Mothra is referenced pretty heavily, too, apart from anything that makes Mothra a distinct character. Which is highly annoying and indicative of how parts of this film went for 'that seems cool' on the surface and I guess I should end my parenthesis soon.)

Wait, hold on, back up -- somewhere back in that rambling you said this wasn't a Godzilla origin film?!

It is absolutely not a Godzilla origin film. It explains Godzilla's presence, sort of, in ways which loosely explain his behaviors and abilities but which don't really add up, but it isn't a G origin film.

But they heavily marketed it that way and the director even said it was!

They lied. They lied a lot in the marketing. But I do get, and understand, why they didn't really go with an origin story -- they were honoring the G54 film and not trying (really) to compete with it or supplant it. On the other hand, since G's hero behaviors wouldn't synch up with his behaviors in the G54 film (and are after all only explained as a slow shift in-story across a bunch of Showa films), they don't structure the story to be a sequel to G54 either.

G54 events haven't happened in this story, in other words (not sure about the writer's comic book prequel, but those events are absolutely not referenced in the movie); but a whole powerful international organization called Monarch knows about G already. And they're interesting when they have some agency (as an agency! -- ba-dump-tish) in the story, but that ends not long after the opening credit sequence. Which I'd love to freeze-frame and study, by the way.

Anyway, it is absolutely not a Godzilla origin film. It is very much a Muto origin film. And then they die, the end. (Making room for less disposable Toho creatures to come perhaps.) Again, think Smog Monster.

They don't have Smog Monster properties do they!?

No, I should clarify, they just have natural and pretty normal giant animal properties, aside from being able to generate electromagnetic pulses for literally no good reason other than to screw with modern military capabilities in fighting them. If I thought the writer(s?) meant this to point to Dr. Serizawa's wild-ass guesses about the explanation for Godzilla and the Mutos (his theories may be legitimately established somewhere in the movie's backhistory, but so far as the film goes he presents them like the suppositional theories of Dr. Yamane the paleontologist of the first film -- and okay he's also the "Dr. Yamane" of this film, and I would have been happier if they had named him Yamane)... wait, I lost my grammar trail. Starting over.

If I thought the writer(s?) meant this to point to the 'official' explanation being radically wrong (despite it being a pretty clever explanation otherwise, and even somewhat literally synching with Dr. Yamane's descriptions in G54), I'd be impressed with the pulse detail. Or I might even be impressed if the creatures had been designed (by the writers I mean) so that the pulse was something they just did by accident for other purposes (which is kind of how the pulse is explained when it first shows up). But then of course the pulse couldn't be relied on in-narrative to solve narrative problems. So the script half-asses it: the Mutos intentionally and accidentally pulse when it's convenient to the plot, and not when it's not. This leaves the actual purpose of the pulse for the Mutos highly unclear. But then the Mutos themselves are described in a very unclear way. They are confidently described as parasites, but they don't behave that way at all. Here I'd have to get into spoilers a little, so I'll wait until later.

We think you may be waaaaay overthinking this Godzilla film.

You mean this Godzilla film which up to now has been marketed as a grimdark gritty realistic what-if-kaiju-were-really-real-omgthetotalhorror experience? I don't overthink Godzilla vs. Megalon, which isn't presented that way; and on the other hand the Smog Monster film despite its ludicrous premises which are on par with Megalon's premises, works hard to synch up its monster's "story" in clever ways even when it pulls convenient new abilities out of its ass (somewhat literally) on a regular basis. The Mutos are all over the place by contrast, in a setting which was sold as being a modern thinker's Godzilla film. (They aren't pulling radical new abilities out of their asses, literal or otherwise, but their minimum abilities have problems on consideration.)

Okay you've alluded to this before, as have professional reviewers elsewhere, that this is not a grimdark gritty realistic what-if-kaiju-were-really-real-omgthetotalhorror experience, or whatever. But there just seems too much in the stills and trailers which fit that idea and not with... whatever it is you and other reviewers are talking about. How is that even possible?

It seemed to me while watching it, and on the drive home, and still thinking about it, that the film was originally designed and sold one way, and even produced along that line to a far extent, before someone high up forced a change on it too late in production to alter large portions of it.

My educated guess would be that the grimdark tone was in production first and then someone realized holy crap kids are going to come see this and we're going to traumatize them we've got to lighten the tone immensely even if that conflicts with the grimdark things we've already got in production in crazy patchwork ways.

My main evidence for that sequence instead of the other way around, is the music. Which is seriously bad, but seriously bad in a light-hearted jaunty and trivial fashion.

Not like the Requiem music from the trailers??

Not at all for most of the movie, although the Requiem horror music is still used for the halo drop; and even though the unsettling musical grind (not a sound effect in-movie though maybe it's supposed to be) is also used occasionally, sometimes where it's used in the trailers. Like when Godzilla is wading in after the tsunami, and the camera pans over to his chest with the flares drifting by it. A sequence which affrontively makes no sense, by the way.

wait.. the... that...

Too many topics in that paragraph, sorry. Let's stick with the music first.

Part 2 of the non-spoilery FAQ review next.

[JasonPratt]

JRP's non-spoilery FAQ review/critique of Godzilla 2014, Part 2 of 2

Is the classic Godzilla music ever used?

No.

So what kind of music is it?

It's about as memorable as the music to the recent Spider-man reboot with the Lizard from a few years ago, but without any kind of real theme for Godzilla or anyone or anything else. And with less skittering like a spider. Except when that seems to be Godzilla's theme sometimes in credit sequences. I guess.

...whaaaatt??

You remember the music from the 98 GINO film? That music was more thematic and memorable than this movie's; they're about equally lighthearted fun either way.

......whaaat are you even talking about?!!?

Exactly.

Had G2014 been released without any musical score at all, it would have been significantly improved. But the music, which sounds quickly hashed out (even literally "hashed" out by an orchestra sometimes), does serve one overriding importance: it helps deflate the tension and lighten the tone to keep the movie from being too intensely engaging. The Smog Monster music (as a convenient example) often (always) sounds silly and cheap, but it fits various moods in the film much better, and there are distinct themes. It even created the new Godzilla theme music for the late Showa period (except when Ifikube came back for the Gigan film and Terror of MechaG.)

The Smog Monster movie music was significantly better than G2014. Dwell on that for a while. DWELL ON IT...!

(Maybe more pertinently and importantly, the Pacific Rim musical score was several thousand times better in every way, and would have fit this movie well in most circumstances.)

We cannot imagine the Pacific Rim music, though that was admittedly awesome, fitting the scene where BrodyMom dies as repeatedly spoiled in trailers.

Well no of course not, though the Hans Zimmer protege (I can't remember his name, he does the Game of Thrones main music and the score to the first Iron Man movie, all quite awesome) is talented enough he could have easily scored that with appropriate music. And the music there (if there is any, I don't remember) is appropriate enough. (I don't know who wrote this score, and I'm afraid to look and find out it's someone I like.)

It sounds like BrodyMom's death is the emotional high point of the movie.

It is. It belongs in a completely different and significantly better movie, too. Everyone, especially Cranston and Binoche, act THE UTTER HELL out of that whole sequence. Then the final 97% of the movie happens.

How could that be the emotional high point of the movie? There's a freaking tsunami brutally killing hundreds of people which the director shoots to look as much like real-life recent footage of tsunamis killing hundreds of people as possible!

Nah, the tsunami isn't all that impressive. I mean, yeah, it looks impressively like real-life tragedies in our recent past, and lots of people die, but the director works hard to deflate its trauma in any way. Also, there's literally no reason even in the film for it to happen. It's Hawaii, tsunamis happen occasionally, I guess. Also Godzilla happens to come ashore at the same time, which could also be kind of a problem, and seems afterward from the destruction of buildings like it might have been a serious problem, but the movie doesn't treat it like a serious problem really. Maybe there's an informed connection for the audience to make if they want.

...our.... our minds cannot process the...

The inscrutable gall or mistaken ideas behind this sequence, are far more emotionally engaging and impressive than the tsunami/Godzilla-ashore sequence itself is.

I am not kidding when I say that so far as the movie is shot and edited Godzilla can at best be only implied, perhaps by accident, as the cause of the tsunami. (I mean accidentally implied to wrongly be the cause of the tsunami, not implied to be the cause by accident. Though that, too. It's a schizophrenic sequence in so many ways.)

I can't get further into this without spoilers, so maybe later in a spoilerFAQ. But for one more non-spoilery example: you know those soldiers on the roof nearby shooting up flares? They're there for no clear reason, and definitely shooting flares for no clear in-story reason -- they aren't the halo team and don't even include the main character. They're literally just there to look kind of interesting and evocative for the trailer. Then other soldiers with little tiny machine guns open fire unexpectedly, which is startling -- partly because it makes no sense for them to do so against something that big. I will however admit that that is by far not the most startling thing to happen in the movie.

Can you talk about the single most startling thing to happen in this giant-monster disaster movie, without giving any spoilers?

A comical seagull is the most emotionally startling thing in this giant-monster disaster movie. People jumped in the theater -- the only time that happened, one of the few times they engaged with the film at all (okay a much smaller jump when soldiers unexpectedly started shooting their little guns at Godzilla), and then everyone had a quick laugh and went back to just kind of staring patiently at the movie. (I went last night instead of a matinee because I wanted to get a feel for as much crowd reaction as possible.)

Okay for a non-spoiler FAQ review this is getting pointlessly long. Did you talk about how Godzilla's design fit some theory of yours yet?

Ah, no, I hadn't. Thanks for reminding me!  :D But it just fits into my theory that they wanted this to be as undisturbing to children as possible. There are a couple of shots when he roars at the camera when he seems like a quite different animal (with a much different and more Spinosaur-y predator shape to his head, not incidentally.) In those moments he seems like the "alpha predator" the Dr. Yamane/Steve Martin character named Dr. Serizawa keeps talking about. But only in those couple of moments. Also not-incidentally: one of those threatening roars is used in one of the trailers as the doors close over the shelter where SoldierBrody's wife is hiding. In the film, something else completely non threatening to her is happening. And that whole sequence for about a minute on either side is edited in such a wildly divergent style that it's clear shots from utterly different parts of a previous script were cobbled together into something else. (Or possibly that shots originally created for the trailer and its significantly different tone were cobbled into the movie because despite their wildly different tone they do involve plot points kind of needed in the story so they had to be there in some form in the final product.)

Now, am I complaining that someone made a Godzilla movie as undisturbing to children as possible (under the circumstances)? By no means -- I prefer the hero-Godzilla to the nightmarish-threat Godzilla. But in this regard the film is a schizophrenic tonal mess, and I'm complaining about that.

A complaint that fans and non-fans alike have launched at the Smog Monster film for years, starting with the year of its release when Toho officials grievously and sarcastically congratulated the director on ruining Godzilla forever.

I am aware of the irony, but where the juxtaposition of tones in Smog Monster seems like audaciousness, this just seems like a mess. Possibly because the juxtaposition of tones in SM was designed in from the outset, and I see lots of evidence that isn't true here. Also, the schizophrenic tones of the Smog Monster film fracture pretty cleanly along the lines between Godzilla and the Smog Monster. Godzilla is mostly in the kid-friendly mode developed over many years by then (indicated by the first real "Kenny" character of the series, and also by far the best such kid character.) Hedorah has all the horror of the film, and is mostly played straight along that line -- mirroring the horror and many of the themes of Godzilla's original 54 movie, and not by accident. The scientific and heroic optimism of the Godzilla series triumphs over its horrific pessimism, well-intentioned and important though that pessimism is for its own purposes, which is one of several ways I regard that film as unsung genius.

Godzilla 2014 is not really anything more than a big grey mess, that pretty clearly wants to be the Godzilla version of Spielberg's War of the Worlds. But it isn't.

In conclusion, I'm with MovieBob's review (upthread) on this one. So close to being good, and so technically competent in so many ways...

But Godzilla breathes fire, right? The trailers have us worried. You can talk about this without spoilers. YOU MUST TALK ABOUT THIS -- THIS IS IMPORTANT!!

He uses his breath weapon, yes. As many times as GINO 98 does.

...STOP TEASING US, THAT WASN'T BREATHING FIRE EXCEPT AS A LAST-MINUTE POORLY PATCHED EFFECT WHEN THE DIRECTOR FINALLY ACCEPTED THE FANS WOULD EAT HIM ALIVE!

It's better than that. But not much. He vomits some kind of blue atomic plasma-fluid twice, toward the end of the film. It has a nifty build-up the first time but a very underwhelming effect which accomplishes practically nothing that I can recall. The second time is an admittedy epic finishing move that should have exemplified the fight designs from the beginning -- but even then, after the previous fizzle, the implication is that Godzilla has to cheat to make it work. If someone revealed he was originally only supposed to breath-ray that one time, I would believe it.

But then he would either win too quickly, or in order to sell the power of the ray other things would have to be wrecked besides the Mutos. And for no clear reason this Godzilla tries, apparently by accident, to keep the property-destruction down. Not for any reason intrinsic to the character of this Godzilla in any way, only by accident.

That sort of sums up the whole movie experience.  ???

But it's still vastly better than GINO 98. So there's that. 


More spoilery FAQ to follow, maybe, when I get around to feeling like it.

[GDS_Starfury]

Im off to see this now.  and the theater has a bar.  O0

[W8taminute]

I'm jealous.  I haven't been to a movie theatre/bar since I was in college.  Enjoy the movie with a brewskie!

I'm going tomorrow morning for the 09:45 show to not only get cheaper seats but to beat the crowds.