Battlefront's Combat Mission Eastern Front Sneak Peek

[Yskonyn]

Unfortunately, CM and battlefront are - for whatever reason- emotional topics which makes conversation about the game difficult. I PROMISE you that there are people out there (and perhaps on this forum) who have already decided this game sucks and will grasp at any bug or design change in The game to declare it a "mess" or "unplayable"

Meanwhile, I will stick to playing "unplayable" games like rebirth and Rome2 .

Well put! I'll do so too! ;) And enjoy me some solid CMBN games too while I  at it.
Grown men start to act like girls whenever BFC or CM comes up.

[ComradeP]

Yeah, Paradox and Battlefront (and related topics) seem to be real magnets for criticism and people jumping into the fight to support them. That has been the case for years, not sure when it started.

Anyway,

I find your meeting engagement comment also very odd, since that battle type comprises only a small part of what's offered

...but the majority of the AAR's cover that kind of battle, hence my comment. I can only judge what I can see/read about on the internet, not having played the games.

-

Panzer Command also has odd spotting from time to time, but at least in those cases it's often clear that terrain blocks the target from being spotted. I've seen too many cases of odd spotting in CM AAR's for my liking. It might not be as much of a problem in the actual game, that's possible, but as stated: I base my impressions on AAR's, and if they don't provide an accurate overview of the game, that's not something I can influence.

[Grim.Reaper]

It is weird on how much passion this game brings up......if I would have known just mentioning a future eastern front version had some preview available would stoke the fire so much I would have passed on posting it here:)  we have a great community over here and excellent discussions on games, whether we agree on them or not, but cm really seems to ignite tough conversations here and other places for some reason.  To me it's just another game where some people like it, others don't, no different than any other games we discuss.

[Zulu1966]

No Sale!
I'll stick to Graviteams APOS/GTOS game and the soon to be released Mius Front game which will have a newer engine to be released in early 2014 for my east front gaming needs.
There is even talk of adding a multi player aspect to Mius Front.

No one does east front tactical and grand tactical combat better.Nobody!
If they did then I would be buying and playing their product.
I seriously doubt anyone who actually learned to play APOS/GTOS will be looking to CMEF to fill their east front tactical gaming needs.

It looks like BF will be relying on the same old dwindling core customer base for sales of CMEF,per usual and no surprise there.
CMs glory days are over. There are much better products on the market today and CM hasn't been able to keep up and grasp that reality.

I hate to burst anyones bubble but micro managing individual soldiers and WEGO with a Gods eye view does not simulate real life WW2 tactics,especially at the platoon and above level and the tactical AI is no better in CM than APOS/GTOS it only seems that way because the CM maps are denser and smaller with no real room to manuever against the AI in CM.
Nice try though.

As far as 2 story buildings and hills. They are in APOS/GTOS if you really own and played it and bothered to look.
Another thing to consider is the game maps depict the Russian farmlands around Kharkov in the Ukrainian winter not Normandy summer bocage!
The maps are as close as possible to actual contour lines and terrain features for the battles that Graviteam has chosen.

The Devs live in Kharkov and have visited these battlefields countless times and used actual period 1/50,000 maps from the Russian Military archives to recreate them.

I'm sure if Graviteam wanted to add walls and bocage to their game they would do it right not because they can't do it or the game would fall apart because of it.

So what if all the houses look the same,at least you can destroy them and set them on fire. If and when Graviteam decides to go into the Urban combat environment you can be sure that every bldg. and brick wall will be portrayed as accurately as possible and deformable!
How can you accurately portray real life WW2 tactics and not have fire and blow up and destroy buildings or knock down trees.
And why are all the entrenchments and foxholes above ground?
Have they added cellars to the houses in CM yet?

Kind of ruins the real life protection and LOS aspects of these defenses.
So I'm not buying the whole mirrored RL tactics point.
That's like someone telling me Budwieser is the best beer because they drink it and like it!

CM is so sanitized it's like watching cartoon mission!
The graphics are crap and the so called "superior" gameplay doesn't alleviate that perception either.
So I'm also not swallowing that BF propaganda.

I could write pages of all the things I found unrealistic in CM and they may have addressed a few things since CMBN but I doubt any of the fixes are even close to actual realism or would make me care for that game anymore.
CM became a tedious chore to play and I'm much happier with Graviteams rendition of WW2 tactical combat.

BF is a slowly sinking ship and playing the band louder isn't going to cover up that fact or save it. Most of us jumped and abandoned the BF CM ship after CMBN was released and if BF can't update its game to more modern standards then it won't be long before the rest of the hanger ons get sucked under the waves along with it.
Maybe if BF is lucky Slithereen/Matrix will buy them out. Hell,they're like the same peas in the same pod anyways.

As far as I'm concerned Graviteam has no competition from CMEF and I'll wager it will hardly make enough money to support any of the other add ons that BF has planned for it either,much like how CMFI is now.

I get more bang for the buck from Graviteam then I could ever expect from a BF or Matrix product. You want to shell out the big bucks for a "superior" labeled branding with no basis in fact go ahead if you think that gives you some kind of an elite status.
I save money,play a quality product regularly that I enjoy and don't feel like a tool. That's what is more important to me.

Well, attempting a rational rebuttal to your somewhat ittational post.

You can destroy - buildings. Infact - individual floors in buildings so what are you talking about ?

No you cant knock down trees in combat mission. This of course is the single most vital issue in portraying tactical combat - especially given it was something any real TC would have avoided doing in real life - so the fact you can drive through trees with impunity makes APOS more realistic ? You can knock down walls in CM - can you in APOS ? erm no  - because there arent any.

Yes - battlefront is sinking - its been about ten years now and they are producing more stuff than ever. So that must be some tiny hole in the ship. Most of "us" jumped ship ? Whoose us ? you and - Who ? precisely ? where do you get your info from - you seem to know so much ...

The new eastern front CM game will allow maps up to 30 km Sq, - and whether or not a map is constricted is due to the number of forces on the map as well ... something APOS rarely has to worry about because there are never more than a few platoons in any battle.

Your view is they choose their maps based on where they live. Mine is they choose them because they fit the engine. Lets see what the new Muis front delivers - a proper town with urban fighting or yet more wide open spaces.

Well - when graviteam get to urban fighting lets see if they do it better - basing an argument on what may or may not be the  case is not an argument.

Advanced squad leader had cellars, and foxholes - neither of which appeared under the ground - its they effect they have in the game - not where they appear graphically. And as far as I know - graviteam dont have cellars in their one stroy all the same houses either.

So yes - CM doesnt have fire. Well - thats important - but it has a scenario editor you can make new maps with - virtually any terrain you can think of, it has an interface you can understand after one playthrough - not one that is a mess of poorly documented muddle, it has ammo sharing, simulates battlefield casualty first aid, it already has multiplayer, it has controls that mean your units actually go where you want them to rather than vaguley end up in the location then mill about in a huddle not taking up any sensible positions . I could go on if you want to start comparing things.

And yes - there are some occaisions where CM has spotting issues - though nowhere near to the extent some people try to portray - and thats because the complexity of the environments its dealing with ARE light years ahead of anything the only other similar game attempts to do.

I like the APOS games - graphically they are excellent - but saying CM is a piece of crap because the graviteam games are so many light years ahead in both the nature of simulation and what you get is why people who like the game leap so hard to defend it - because for what ever reason there just seem to be some people so irratinal in their hatred its the only way to defend it.

[undercovergeek]

I think like all games us guys invest a lot of time into our hobby and we choose our favourites..... someone dissing those choices is like been told your girlfriend is ugly or you've clearly made the wrong decision!

[Tuna]

Heh I like how Battlefront is destined to fail because no one plays their games.  They seem to be able to make enough money to do damn well what they please and I would love to be in the F.U money position.  Typically the signs of success in my books being able to say we are going to DRM or what ever we want.  If these things were hurting their bottom line so much then either they would have changed them or folded by now.

I play both games a lot and I like APOS/GTOS having put in countless hours learning the interface but just like CMBN it has its ups and downs.  I particularly find myself coming back to CMBN more for the breadth of gaming individual battles though I like APOS/GTOS for the tactical grand scale.  Mostly I come back to CMBN to play against other humans in PBEM and that is where right now I am particularly happy with continuing to play CMBN.

I think it might be more relevant to wait until more information and screen shots are released by CM East Front before making up an iron clad opinion and telling the world.  But based on the negativity that trying to show anything new seems to endanger in this franchise I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it under wraps until it is ready...........  And then go FU as they count their cash.

Con

Gotta admit, the "everybody's gotta buy everything" to be able to play each other kind of sucks!!  :o

[jomni]

I think like all games us guys invest a lot of time into our hobby and we choose our favourites..... someone dissing those choices is like been told your girlfriend is ugly or you've clearly made the wrong decision!

Haha.  It's simple really. The more time and money you spend on a game, the more you'll defend it.  We don't want our time and money to go to waste right?

[Zonso]

Sure it is just a game though I think the issue remains of individuals using hyperbole regards problems in the game, whether from ignorance or just malicious, and/or outright misinformation like the 'gotta buy everything' post above. Passionate, yep, especially in light of it continues to be the same individuals doing so. Anyone playing CM regularly is quite aware of its limitations. Hell most posts on BFC's forum are along those lines and ways to improve or correct them. The developers listen and respond; CM today (BN or FI) is far removed from CMSF, and its not just due to the era. But let's not let facts interfere with a good brew up right?

[Con]

Heh I like how Battlefront is destined to fail because no one plays their games.  They seem to be able to make enough money to do damn well what they please and I would love to be in the F.U money position.  Typically the signs of success in my books being able to say we are going to DRM or what ever we want.  If these things were hurting their bottom line so much then either they would have changed them or folded by now.

I play both games a lot and I like APOS/GTOS having put in countless hours learning the interface but just like CMBN it has its ups and downs.  I particularly find myself coming back to CMBN more for the breadth of gaming individual battles though I like APOS/GTOS for the tactical grand scale.  Mostly I come back to CMBN to play against other humans in PBEM and that is where right now I am particularly happy with continuing to play CMBN.

I think it might be more relevant to wait until more information and screen shots are released by CM East Front before making up an iron clad opinion and telling the world.  But based on the negativity that trying to show anything new seems to endanger in this franchise I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it under wraps until it is ready...........  And then go FU as they count their cash.

Con

Gotta admit, the "everybody's gotta buy everything" to be able to play each other kind of sucks!!  :o

I think where battlefront have done themselves a disservice is the confusion around the modules; base game; game 2.0 and patches.  They really should have called them different games and stopped supporting the base game.  It would have possibly pissed more people off in the short term but made it cleaner and simpler to understand. 

That being said it is a developer decision and only impacts gameplay if you are in a PBEM game when  one person upgrades to a different version and the other doesn't (hint hint have you finally cracked open your tight wallet to drop some xmas dough on  the Market Garden Module Tuna so we can start a new game??)

Con

[undercovergeek]

lol, you two still going at it?

[Grim.Reaper]

Not to take things too far off topic, but was thinking about re-installing CMBN, CMFI Gustav, and possibly buying Market Garden...as someone mentioned above, one of the confusing things is installed its patches/upgrades/modules.  If I own every module/patch/upgrade, can someone tell me what is the correct order of installing all of this stuff if I was installing from scratch?  Which module First?  which patch next? which upgrade module? etc.

[Tuna]

lol, you two still going at it?

No, we had to stop when MG came out, cause we were no longer compatible.  :P

I will someday Con, y wallet has been wide open to FSX recently, and believe me, that is expensive!!!

[MengJiao]

It is weird on how much passion this game brings up......if I would have known just mentioning a future eastern front version had some preview available would stoke the fire so much I would have passed on posting it here:)  we have a great community over here and excellent discussions on games, whether we agree on them or not, but cm really seems to ignite tough conversations here and other places for some reason.  To me it's just another game where some people like it, others don't, no different than any other games we discuss.

Well...who knew?  It's hard to keep track of what games are currently triggering the weird preemptive sour grapes nobody wants (to explain this obscure attempt at understanding why anyone wants to work at working out all the problems with a game they don't want to play -- there is this AESOPIAN fable:  A fox can't reach some grapes so he resigns himself to not having them by saying they are undoubtedly sour grapes)
scenarios.  I still blame the uncanny valley effect for all this.  The preemptive sour uncanny grapes valley.
ANYWAY -- down to plain old unmitigated opinion:

I thoroughly enjoyed the GRAVETEAM games, but CM in all forms has been one of my absolute favorite gaming traditions for over a decade.  I'm far far beyond fanboi on this (as with ARMA or total war in any form).  I accept my ludicrous love of CM stuff.  There's nothing I can do.  I've spent so many happy hours with the editor (as in the ARMAs or the TW mods such as Third Age).

Anyway.  All that aside, I'm taking a CM break until the East Front game comes out.  Frankly (and perhaps ludicrously) I expect it will be one of the most engaging games of all time.

[Nefaro]

It is weird on how much passion this game brings up......if I would have known just mentioning a future eastern front version had some preview available would stoke the fire so much I would have passed on posting it here:)  we have a great community over here and excellent discussions on games, whether we agree on them or not, but cm really seems to ignite tough conversations here and other places for some reason.  To me it's just another game where some people like it, others don't, no different than any other games we discuss.

The empassioned points of view didn't just happen overnight, either.  It's had a long formation period over the years, and much of the debate is in regards to the CMx2 era.

[Zulu1966]

Not to take things too far off topic, but was thinking about re-installing CMBN, CMFI Gustav, and possibly buying Market Garden...as someone mentioned above, one of the confusing things is installed its patches/upgrades/modules.  If I own every module/patch/upgrade, can someone tell me what is the correct order of installing all of this stuff if I was installing from scratch?  Which module First?  which patch next? which upgrade module? etc.

CMBN ... http://www.battlefront.com/helpdesk/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=240&nav=0,10