My frustration with Combat Mission - still!

[undercovergeek]

ahhh but you miss out on all the little hollywood moments that make the game so great, watch them over and over again from anywhere on the battlefield

[JudgeDredd]

I do prefer real time, but that did surprise me because I was a huge fan of WEGO in the original. I was just thinking maybe I didn't like it in the new engine because I was doing all that micro-management

[Zonso]

It seems others have covered your questions JudgeDredd, but to elaborate further on the area fire issue you raised. CM models point to point LOS/LOF, but before that because it is huge resource hog, it does an initial LOS calculation from AS to AS. That's why you couldn't area fire the 2nd floor of a building without LOS to the 1st floor, yet you could fire on enemy troops on the 2nd floor once they were spotted because then the game had performed the more detailed LOS/LOF check. Make sense? It has been a core limitation with the game since the start with CMSF, so I am surprised you hadn't noticed before. Anyways knowledge is key!

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks Zonso

Like I said, I do recall finding that out some time ago - I've just got a terrible memory and it will likely be forgotten again sometime in the near future.

I have seldom played this because I always found aspects infuriatingly difficult and not very self-explanatory, but the suggestions on this thread and knowing now what I know have made my first two "new" attempts to play the game less frustrating.

[Michael Dorosh]

Apparently they issued out gasmask and face shields and protective clothing initally and they were all so cumbersome, the shield was finally developed as a much better solution.

this is correct, the early version was operated with a gas-mask, a hood (Schießhaube, called Eulenspiegel by the troops), and long sleeved gloves (Schießhandschuhe) the "Schirmeister" its a Feldwebel rank dedicated to equipment invented the shield. All field testing was under the direct oversight of Generalmajor Ranft... its was kind of impressive for the soldiers involved to see such a high ranking officer so close to a subunit. Also i can report that the Offenrohr was often used in a poor mans 'Artillery' role, cause there were just no other means left....

Whatever works. I have read field reports from Canadian troops that the PIAT was also used as a mortar. Not because they were poor in artillery, but because, apparently, it was effective. I doubt anyone thought to use it that way on a testing range in England, but in the field, desperate times call for desperate measures...

Thanks for your insights, very interesting. I'm familiar with the Schirmeister appointment title, incidentally - the Wehrmacht seemed to have a title for everything. My favourite has to be the one for pigeon-post-master, but I suspect the troops' favourite was Zahlmeister...

[Boggit]

Panzershreks wont fire from a building

lol - well, I did say my tactical abilities could be cause for some concern. However that was the best vantage point as the tank was the opposite side to a field of bocage. Is that historically accurate or a limitation on the game?

JD you want a historical accurate answer. :)
i went upstairs and asked my dad (89) he was in the field test platoon feb/mar 44 at the eastern front as grunt, his Schirmeister invented that blast shield you all know from the pictures. 8)
He never shot from inside a building at the eastern front or witnessed other doing that ... simply there where just no buildings in the area, just landscape   
He thinks it would have been considered to dangerous that it would have been ordered to do if buildings were available.

+1 on that. He is right because the backblast can kill/injure you, and usually in a building you're in a confined space, which makes it worse. When I was in the army we still used the Carl Gustav, which worked on a similar principle, and we were warned of the danger many times.

[Boggit]

Panzershreks wont fire from a building

You can only target any part of a building when you can see ALL of the buildings foot print, or a unit in it

trust the tac ai - run the shrek team to the hedge and leave the AI to control the team, if they can see the tank, theyll shoot at it, the last thing you should try and do is micromanage the troops, i have and will continue to play whole month long pbems without giving any of my troops a target order, theyll do it themselves when they get there, just get them to a firing point safely and in good order and they will do the rest themselves

+1. Definitely.

[Michael Dorosh]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=396925580444582

Backblast.

Don't endorse or recommend the comments section, but the video is an effective demonstration of the dangers of not checking the danger zone behind the weapon.

[jomni]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=396925580444582

Backblast.

Don't endorse or recommend the comments section, but the video is an effective demonstration of the dangers of not checking the danger zone behind the weapon.

Ouch.

[Yskonyn]

Wow. That's pretty explicit. WARNING to those who have trouble seeing people die in a mist of blood.

[Ubercat]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=396925580444582

Backblast.

Don't endorse or recommend the comments section, but the video is an effective demonstration of the dangers of not checking the danger zone behind the weapon.

Lol. The only thing better than that was the Al Qaeda carbomb instructor blowing up 22(?) terrorist trainees!

[jejo68]

Panzershreks wont fire from a building

lol - well, I did say my tactical abilities could be cause for some concern. However that was the best vantage point as the tank was the opposite side to a field of bocage. Is that historically accurate or a limitation on the game?

So - these troops, the MG-42 bunch, they were on a hill, and because they couldn't see the base of the building, they couldn't shoot at the upper floors? WOW. I never knew that - and more to the point, there must've been a very good reason for it (though for the life of me I can't figure it out) because that's bizarre in the extreme and most definitely seems to be the reason why I find this so frustrating!

That's ridiculous. So my troops on a hill can't fire at the 3rd level of a building because they cannot see the base of the building, and so can only suppress whatever is there IF the enemy show their faces...in other words, my troops were taking fire and being suppressed because they couldn't initiate "firepower supremacy"? Oh dear oh dear.

I do, however, take your point on micro managing. But often I want to get my troops to target a seemingly vacant area (say the building at the other end of a field - which you KNOW will be occupied) whilst I move troops across it...called suppression. Don't you ever want to do that?

What you need to consider is that a panzerschreck fires a rocket, so you will have a flaming backlash of around 5-10 meter. During training of new soldiers we sometimes showed a filmed incident of a guy standing to close to the backlash of a rocket being fired albeit from a modern Carl Gustav. needless to say he was burned quite badly

Oh and a Little anecdote:
once when I was out on the shooting range with the Companies Carl Gustav teams I had to act as security personel (dunno the proper English Word for it). in effect your standing between two teams making sure they keep the weapon pointing in the right direction at all time and using proper procedure for loading etc.
Anyways your only supposed to stand there for around 1 hour at a time. me being a cocky Little bastard didnt really listen to the older NCOs advice so I volunteered to keep my post which meant that after around 3 hours I had to vomit because of force of the backlash from firing the damn thing. Everytime it fires your stomach turns when your standing right next to it :)

[Sir Slash]

Starting to share Dredd's frustration. I managed to finish the CMFI-- 2nd battle of the Troina campaign over the weekend-- Hill 1209. This battle is a Bitch In Heat tough but after almost giving up more than once, we managed to find a little gap in the German defenses and as time ran out on the scenario, scaled the summit and took proper vengeance on the German mortar crews who had made the previous 1 hour+ such a misery. With 3 of 5 objectives secured and more than 100 Germans KIA, I thought I had done the impossible-- won a minor victory. Only to find that the game disagreed, a US Army Minor Defeat. Some how the AI Germans got a bunch of points from somewhere and beat me. Doesn't matter in the campaign but it doesn't fair. I had only 30 KIA, with a lot more wounded but still. Anyway I consider it a Personal Victory which I will proudly place in my Personal Victory Award showcase which is filled with other stuff nobody cares about or wants to hear about but I will threaten to tell them about when they annoy me. ;D

[undercovergeek]

youre on top of the hill surrounded by dead Germans = you won!

[JudgeDredd]

You were "King of the Castle" and the Germans were "Dirty Rascals"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5z4yarSZlw