Battlefront.com DRM

[Zonso]

And just as easy to understand that screaming in the middle of a dark forest, while everyone else is out playing in the sunny, open fields, will go unheard...

[Michael Dorosh]

And just as easy to understand that screaming in the middle of a dark forest, while everyone else is out playing in the sunny, open fields, will go unheard...

Your comments make it seem like there is a binary situation where a few fools do not buy the game because of irrational fears while "everyone else" in the world buys it and enjoys it blissfully. Not so. Firstly, there are those who buy CM - a tiny majority of the game-playing public given the niche-market status of the game. Then there are those who have considered purchasing CM but will not for whatever reason - DRM, price, marketing strategy, can't figure out the website, whatever. And then there is the vast majority of a few billion people who have either never heard of CM or couldn't care less about it even if they did.

No one knows just how big that "everyone else" you refer to really is, but one is rarely wise to actively disenchant that segment of the market. In the case of CM it is certainly more restricted than most with regards to demographics, etc.

[Yskonyn]

You assume his 'everyone else' includes everyone in a general sense, while I believe he might just mean everyone else who is playing and as such only encompasses the game community, not the whole wide world.
Discussions can be made pretty exhaustive with these language tricks to fuel a point .

[Nefaro]

Discussions can be made pretty exhaustive with these language tricks to fuel a point .

As evidenced by yet another vague internet metaphor, used in the post MD was referring to as way to dismiss voiced concerns by those who don't care. 

The "Let them eat cake" dismissal.  There - now I just did one.   :P

[Redirected]

You assume his 'everyone else' includes everyone in a general sense, while I believe he might just mean everyone else who is playing and as such only encompasses the game community, not the whole wide world.
Discussions can be made pretty exhaustive with these language tricks to fuel a point .

Agreed.  But I don't quite understand what a...

Firstly, there are those who buy CM - a tiny majority of the game-playing public given the niche-market status of the game.

...is?

In any case, the 'leakage' or suspected leakage of sales in CMx1 must have driven the DRM situation where it is.  BF would not have invested the time and money otherwise.  They only know the results of this.  That is, sales of CMx2 vs. CMx1.  It doesn't matter what language tricks or bad math one uses (what percentage of the earth's population have computers that can even run the game?), but that's niether here nor there.

CMRT is out and maybe there will be something better to talk about now.

[mirth]

CMRT is out and maybe there will be something better to talk about now.

For games with problematic DRM, the conversation inevitably comes back around to the DRM. No matter how good the game may be.

[Redirected]

I think that a hardware solution is better than all this DRM business.  That is, a USB item that can be functional for the game.  An example is something like a USB-memory-device.  It  has a coded chip inside that can be queried by an online activation system.  The game can be sold on the USB device as an option to DLing.  So the customer has a 'hard-copy' and also a device that would allow positive identification of the customer and the number of activations.  This could be a purchase option.  People could opt for this and perhaps after an initial investment, it would work for future products from the vendor.  That is, it would work for CMRT and CMBN and Black Sea etc.

I am also thinking of something like a USB-headset-Motion product like the Wii technology (3 axis motion sensor).  This could allow the motion of a players head to control the 'camera' motion.  Of course, this would have to be an outside vendor since there doesn't seem to be an in-house developer capability at BF.

But basically, having a hardware item, that is not only functional, but a way to control 'leakage' would be my goal.

[RyanE]

I had always been skeptical of the HW DRM option.  We used to use them on manufacturing automation software.  They were very unreliable and we basically sold two to every client because of it.  They plugged into the old parallel port.

But I have a Steel Beasts one for a year and never had a problem.  I'm scared crapless that I will forget it somewhere or my sone will use it as a USB drive.

[Redirected]

I had always been skeptical of the HW DRM option.  We used to use them on manufacturing automation software.  They were very unreliable and we basically sold two to every client because of it.  They plugged into the old parallel port.

But I have a Steel Beasts one for a year and never had a problem.  I'm scared crapless that I will forget it somewhere or my sone will use it as a USB drive.

Yeah, I used to sell and use MasterCAM and there was a 'Dongle' protection scheme for the port but I believe it was cracked.  That was many years ago.  I can't believe that there are not better solutions nowadays.  And, given the low price of these wargames, and the small market that some cater to, I can't believe it is worth someone's time to crack it.  Also, like BIOS, I would want the 'dongle' to be upgradeable through the software company to stay ahead of any crackers trying to hack it.

[Nefaro]

I had always been skeptical of the HW DRM option.  We used to use them on manufacturing automation software.  They were very unreliable and we basically sold two to every client because of it.  They plugged into the old parallel port.

But I have a Steel Beasts one for a year and never had a problem.  I'm scared crapless that I will forget it somewhere or my sone will use it as a USB drive.

I've had USB "thumb" drives die on me before, even with light but steady use. 

I agree it's not a good idea to go that route, either.

[RyanE]

Actually, I prefer the USB key over BFC's current DRM.  But I suspect its a lot more expensive for the USB than some sketchy SW DRM.

[Redwolf]

What and whether the DRM system actually send back data to the vendor (or anybody else) should be in the EULA.

If not you can sue. And for real.

I don't think spying on the customer is an issue here at all.

One issue is that the paying customers get harassed and the pirates do not. The pirates downloads things with DRM pre-removed.

The other issue is that we *buy* the game, not *rent* it. We have a right to use it forever but the license servers will not stay up forever.

Has the latest EULA changed in the released PDF manual for CMRT?

Myself I don't care. I have a dedicated gaming machine that runs nothing else, and that I never use to surf the web. They can spy all they want on it.

(the my other computers are isolating this machine the same way as the general internet, although I though you would probably be able to empty my printer)

[RyanE]

CMRT is out and maybe there will be something better to talk about now.

For games with problematic DRM, the conversation inevitably comes back around to the DRM. No matter how good the game may be.

I an opening up the topic again because I thought this post ties directly to this discussion and is a good follow up.

I saw Steve posted on BFC that the big hold up on CMRT is the DRM.  They are having issues with it.  Again my point is that I have no issues with DRM, but use one that works.  They have had some pretty steady issues with DRM since the CMRT was released.  This is now an issue the effects every CM user.  It has gone from an isolated incident here and there to delaying a much needed patch for months.  I still come back to whether anyone at BFC really thinks its worth it.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1553895&postcount=18

[Nefaro]

I an opening up the topic again because I thought this post ties directly to this discussion and is a good follow up.

I saw Steve posted on BFC that the big hold up on CMRT is the DRM.  They are having issues with it.  Again my point is that I have no issues with DRM, but use one that works.  They have had some pretty steady issues with DRM since the CMRT was released.  This is now an issue the effects every CM user.  It has gone from an isolated incident here and there to delaying a much needed patch for months.  I still come back to whether anyone at BFC really thinks its worth it.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1553895&postcount=18

We expected to turn around and release the Red Thunder patch a week or two later. Unfortunately DRM issues crept into the mix and we've been having problems getting the thing to run reliably. So it's been dragged out unexpectedly.

Like most modern software, DRM is also lousy with bugs. 

It's unfortunate that BF believes these headaches absolutely essential.   

[Cyrano]

As a BFC die-hard, I will only repeat that I've never once had DRM trouble. *touches wood*

Also, the characterization that the DRM was the main reason for the delay is inaccurate.  Steve clearly said that the building bug (which I can imagine was substantial) caused months of delay while whatever the DRM problem was took only a week or two.

Missing our on CM:RT (or BN or FI for that matter) because of, in my experience, unfounded concerns re: DRM strikes me as regrettable.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)