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http://slitherine.com/games/V65_PC

I just signed up for the beta.

Definitely looks interesting.  Just hope the dev's keep one thing in mind:

Charlie don't surf!!

I was hoping for your standard "grog" type game - that looks like Apple bollox

Premature judgement, I know - but it's definitely not the view I was hoping for.  :(

^ Agree with JD. Looks like yet another Slitherine tablet game with limited depth.

They clearly want to sell me less stuff.

I'd prefer something a little more operational / groggy in scope, myself, but I'm curious to see where this goes. I agree, if it's just PanzerCorps in SouthEast Asia, I'll pass. 

Relatively few games devoted to Vietnam, so any attention from game devs must be a good thing, imo.

Looks like Battle Academy '65.

I played a preview build on the ipad and it is an interesting game with a lot of potential.

I didn't see the development team listed. Anyone know who is making it?

Ran across this on RPS' Flare Path early last year:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/28/the-flare-path-on-the-ho-chi-minh-trail/#more-192195 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/28/the-flare-path-on-the-ho-chi-minh-trail/#more-192195)

There's a downloadable PC prototype at:

http://www.vietnam65.com/ (http://www.vietnam65.com/)

I am heartily sick of cheap-ass, poor quality tablet games. Give me a complex, grognardy wargame, dammit!   :tickedoff:

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 12, 2015, 08:08:14 PM
I played a preview build on the ipad and it is an interesting game with a lot of potential.

That did not enamour me  :P

Quote from: DennisS on January 12, 2015, 11:01:23 PM
I am heartily sick of cheap-ass, poor quality tablet games. Give me a complex, grognardy wargame, dammit!   :tickedoff:

I feel the same - but - I do understand there is a market for these - it's just definitely not me.

I looked at the Matrix Coming Soon section the other day and it made me a bit sad. Absolutely nothing (bar Brother Against Brother) to look forward to (for me).

I suppose games like this

• Possibly create new potential groggies
• Keep the finances ticking over

But they do nothing for me.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.themaninthemoviehat.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2Fbiglebowski1.jpg&hash=a1aa2690e82a4cfc8137d35691aa6b0c137eb927)

Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 12, 2015, 06:03:52 PM
I was hoping for your standard "grog" type game - that looks like Apple bollox

Premature judgement, I know - but it's definitely not the view I was hoping for.  :(

+1

the graphics / art design turning me somewhat away.... even so the gameplay underneath may be good, we will find out

i would have wished for playing it on a 'kind of topo map' and with military symbols/icons ...Westmoreland's-HQ -style and not with cartoon-ish animated sprites where everything is blown out of proportion n size.   

is this the same game? ...or an earlier developing stage?   

...before some lead artist turned it into ridiculous beer hot milk 'n pretzels looks



- - - edit - - -

the first vid is actually an early stage! ...and its free to test on the PC here   8)
http://www.vietnam65.com/download-prototype.html

The first one definitely needed work - but not the kind of work given on the second!

I think you guys are being a little too grumpy and a bit unfairly critical. It is not meant to be as hardcore as War in the West, but that doesn't mean it can't explore interesting strategic issues unique to the Vietnam War. How many games are out there focusing on Airmobile operations in the 1960s? Exactly! 

When I played the preview build, although it had issues and I wasn't in love with the look of the game, it did successfully model the dilemmas of counter insurgency operations where you are cut off from your main bases of supply and support, in deep jungle and mountainous terrain against an enemy who outnumbers you and can often times attack without warning. It was critical to keep those choppers coming in and out with fresh supplies and troops. I did enjoy it.

Anyway, let's face it...even if it was the next War in the West, there are people who would complain about that too.

Quote from: MikeGER on January 13, 2015, 02:39:38 AM

Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 12, 2015, 06:03:52 PM
I was hoping for your standard "grog" type game - that looks like Apple bollox

Premature judgement, I know - but it's definitely not the view I was hoping for.  :(

+1

the graphics / art design turning me somewhat away.... even so the gameplay underneath may be good, we will find out

i would have wished for playing it on a 'kind of topo map' and with military symbols/icons ...Westmoreland's-HQ -style and not with cartoon-ish animated sprites where everything is blown out of proportion n size.   

is this the same game? ...or an earlier developing stage?   

...before some lead artist turned it into ridiculous beer hot milk 'n pretzels looks

- - - edit - - -

the first vid is actually an early stage! ...and its free to test on the PC here   8)
http://www.vietnam65.com/download-prototype.html

My exact thoughts Mike. Still looking forward to it though, despite the change to the cartoonish style of art.

I wasn't suggesting it should be WitW in Vietnam - it's just not my thing. I don't like wargames looking like that. That's pretty much it.

...well, of course i enlisted for the beta(lottery)   O0    ...and will surly not raid their office for using cartoons  ;)

I don't know.  It looks pretty dang good to me.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 13, 2015, 07:23:17 AM
I think you guys are being a little too grumpy and a bit unfairly critical.

its what we do here.  8)

Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 13, 2015, 01:18:57 AM

I looked at the Matrix Coming Soon section the other day and it made me a bit sad. Absolutely nothing (bar Brother Against Brother) to look forward to (for me).

Good luck waiting for Brother Against Brother. The game has potential, but will they ever finish it? I am on the beta test team, and was extremely active in it's development three years ago. But I gave up waiting for the dev team to keep working on it.

Quote from: bboyer66 on January 13, 2015, 07:57:01 AM

Quote from: MikeGER on January 13, 2015, 02:39:38 AM

Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 12, 2015, 06:03:52 PM
I was hoping for your standard "grog" type game - that looks like Apple bollox

Premature judgement, I know - but it's definitely not the view I was hoping for.  :(

+1

the graphics / art design turning me somewhat away.... even so the gameplay underneath may be good, we will find out

i would have wished for playing it on a 'kind of topo map' and with military symbols/icons ...Westmoreland's-HQ -style and not with cartoon-ish animated sprites where everything is blown out of proportion n size.   

is this the same game? ...or an earlier developing stage?   

...before some lead artist turned it into ridiculous beer hot milk 'n pretzels looks

- - - edit - - -

the first vid is actually an early stage! ...and its free to test on the PC here   8)
http://www.vietnam65.com/download-prototype.html

My exact thoughts Mike. Still looking forward to it though, despite the change to the cartoonish style of art.

Reminds me of how they bastardized Field Commander Rommel.
By the way where do I get the game in the first video?

In the link at the bottom of the post you quoted  :P

Quote from: JudgeDredd on January 14, 2015, 01:33:10 AM
In the link at the bottom of the post you quoted  :P

SEEEEESH! How did I miss that?

Quote from: jomni on January 13, 2015, 06:42:47 PM

Reminds me of how they bastardized Field Commander Rommel.
By the way where do I get the game in the first video?

Only a truly OCD groghead would insult the game and then immediately ask where to get it.  O0

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 14, 2015, 07:15:40 AM

Quote from: jomni on January 13, 2015, 06:42:47 PM

Reminds me of how they bastardized Field Commander Rommel.
By the way where do I get the game in the first video?

Only a truly OCD groghead would insult the game and then immediately ask where to get it.  O0

[emoji6]

To be fair, the game in the first video was an early build that looked 'better', so not quite as OCD as it seems.  :))

I played two very long sessions of the PC build.

Interesting game, and I'm glad someone is doing something different. Having done counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, this game hits home. I liked the mix of combat and logistics, something often overlooked with games. I find it satisfying to drop supplies to Soldiers who I've tasked to conduct a week-long movement to contact in search of NVA forces. I think about when I was the guy on the ground and how I felt getting resupply after a week of combat operations.

I think there needs to be more depth, especially in terms of intelligence gathering - right now you either gather intelligence or you don't. Villages are either friendly or not. Regardless you never get information from villages.

Intelligence drives Operations, and operations drive intelligence. In real life we rarely just perform operations. We perform operations based on intelligence. During operations we gather more intelligence to drive more operations.

There also need to be an operational level of intelligence. After every turn you should receive some kind of briefing on enemy troop movements or developments in the area.

As well as more realistic ways to win over the populace. I recommended to the creator that he add Civil Affairs units with the ability to build civilian projects to sway the populace. He liked it. Ideally, it would be nice if the game had a Civilization approach, where each town could be developed independently with certain buildings.

I'm glad this guy got picked up by Slitherine, hopefully they can help him fill some of the gaps, maybe provide some artists.

Quote from: JasonPratt on January 14, 2015, 10:03:33 AM
To be fair, the game in the first video was an early build that looked 'better', so not quite as OCD as it seems.  :))

First video is the PC build. Second is the iOS app

Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on January 15, 2015, 10:05:52 PM
Interesting game, and I'm glad someone is doing something different. Having done counterinsurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, this game hits home. I liked the mix of combat and logistics, something often overlooked with games. I find it satisfying to drop supplies to Soldiers who I've tasked to conduct a week-long movement to contact in search of NVA forces. I think about when I was the guy on the ground and how I felt getting resupply after a week of combat operations.

That sounds very promising. Getting the balance between the "exciting bits" of blowing stuff up and portraying enough logistics to make it interesting and deep without turning the game into a spreadsheet is a tough thing to do. I would not have guessed from the screenshots that this game was even attempting it, let alone doing a decent job of it.

Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on January 15, 2015, 10:05:52 PM
I think there needs to be more depth, especially in terms of intelligence gathering - right now you either gather intelligence or you don't. Villages are either friendly or not. Regardless you never get information from villages.

This seems a must for a game depicting Vietnam. I hope something along these lines is added.

Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on January 15, 2015, 10:05:52 PM
I'm glad this guy got picked up by Slitherine, hopefully they can help him fill some of the gaps, maybe provide some artists.

I hope they can. I'm concerned that the changes in the UI and depiction of units etc. between the two iterations shown in the videos suggest things are headed toward "tablet game" and not something as promising as what you and JH are talking about. I play some ugly games, but I'd rather that they be deeper and military graphics ugly than badly drawn sprites ugly. Sounds like there might be more here than meets the eye.

Edit: Posted while Apocalypse 31 was posting about the two videos. If these aren't two iterations of the game but rather the difference between the PC version and the tablet version, I'm much, much more enthused and encouraged about this.

QuoteThat sounds very promising. Getting the balance between the "exciting bits" of blowing stuff up and portraying enough logistics to make it interesting and deep without turning the game into a spreadsheet is a tough thing to do.

I think it also feeds into the Vietnam theme and fighting a counterinsurgency. Sometimes there is no true glory.

During my time playing, I ran a few week-long operations in order to seek and destroy the NVA. I found nothing and killed nothing. During that time, I lost men to booby taps and I spent most of my efforts figuring out ways to resupply the units. No glory.

At the same time it was challenging, and it stimulated me like few other games have.

QuoteI would not have guessed from the screenshots that this game was even attempting it, let alone doing a decent job of it.

It has lots of promise. As stated in my previous post, it just needs more depth and feedback so the player can make informed decisions.

Edit: I should probably explain. It's been a while so I may give bad information

Each turn is one day.
Regular Army units can sustain 3 days of supply
Ranger units can sustain for 5 days.
Main bases will generate supplies
Units can be resupplied on a base, or by helicopter.
the type of helicopter determines how much supply you get.
Heavy lift helicopters can travel much further in a single turn. This is important
There are also firebases and patrol bases that can stockpile supplies, but will not generate supplies
Engineer units can build roads and fire bases
There are also artillery units that can provide fire missions, but require ammo - different than supplies

The objective is to have more village-support than the NVA. you achieved this by sending units to villages and destroying NVA units near those village. However, your units will need resupply every 3-5 days. And the sector is very large.

During my most effective game I was only able to support 2 firebases with 3 companies of infantry. Eventually it became a logistical nightmare and I lost all support because I was stretched too far.

Considering this has already been available, I wonder what the point of having testers sign an NDA is, unless they are making significant changes.

Sounds like a game that could draw me in. Soldier bios could help with that.

I actually liked the map look of the early version. Either way, considering the lack of 'Nam games I WILL get this unless it stinks.

Hi everyone, apologies for weighing in so late on this topic, been rather busy in the Slitherine Beta forum  ;)

Have a read at this interview, might give you a great perspective on the issue of the board game feel versus the 3D feel....

http://wargamer.com/article/3762/interview-trailing-ho-chi-minh


I coded the prototype myself but having said that am very proud of the product now going to market, I can assure you only one thing, it's definitely not like the prevailing stock of war games on the iPad.

All is not lost...

(//)

I like the looks of that and am looking forward to getting my mitts on the beta.

PC beta should be out tomorrow ... :)

Now that's nice.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 05:21:18 AM
PC beta should be out tomorrow ... :)

Is it going to everyone who applied, or being released in waves?

Slitherine selects the testers, I just follow orders ....   :)

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 04:07:16 AM
Hi everyone, apologies for weighing in so late on this topic, been rather busy in the Slitherine Beta forum  ;)

Have a read at this interview, might give you a great perspective on the issue of the board game feel versus the 3D feel....

http://wargamer.com/article/3762/interview-trailing-ho-chi-minh


I coded the prototype myself but having said that am very proud of the product now going to market, I can assure you only one thing, it's definitely not like the prevailing stock of war games on the iPad.

That article has pushed this up to top of my wish list.

QuoteIt includes all the iconic features of the Vietnam War, including inter alia: Fire support bases, airstrikes, training ARVN forces, intelligence gathering, special forces, mines and booby traps, NVA offensives, search and destroy missions, MEDEVACS, Ho chi Minh trail etc.

MEDEVACS !! I remember playing a Lynx flight sim just to do medevacs

Good luck with your release in March!

By the way, I gather that Battles are around 2 hours on randomly generated maps. Do the battles link for a longer campaign context?

Yes, I am a Groghead....  :)

I even get the helicopters to change to medevac choppers when they pick up wounded units, I understand ....

As for a campaign, not yet.......  ;)  ;)

I get the impression that while it's not a "light "game necessarily, it can be completed in 2-3 hours and replayability comes from randomization on the map. True?

The PC graphics and UI are the same as those on tablets, then?

Game lasts 45 turns , victory determined by Hearts & Minds score, pasts about 2 to 3 hours.

Terrain and location of base and villages are random.

As it now stands , both IOS and PC use the same 3D engine and UI.

The 2D map I attached in the post above is the Intel map for the game, it tracks all enemy contact , friendly u its and their status etc , primarily used to triangulate the location of the Ho Chi Minh Trail and planning logistics.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:01:28 AM
Yes, I am a Groghead....  :)

I even get the helicopters to change to medevac choppers when they pick up wounded units, I understand ....

As for a campaign, not yet.......  ;)  ;)

Thanks for replying. Well from the looks of things it's still a buy on first weekend for me. But would really look forward to a wider perspective, incentive and immersion of battles impacting a campaign.


45 turns is not to be sniffed at.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:43:12 AM
Game lasts 45 turns , victory determined by Hearts & Minds score, pasts about 2 to 3 hours.

Terrain and location of base and villages are random.

As it now stands , both IOS and PC use the same 3D engine and UI.

A game like this deserves an immersive, military looking map.

Best of luck.

Unity engine also runs on Android :)  Vietnam65 please nag the Publisher Overlord for an Android version too ;)

My original design I did with Operation Flashpoint mod had four provinces making up a Corps area as well as Cambodia and Loas , so this is the first iteration... :)

I think there will be a 2D military style tactical map in the future of this game, see the attached pic of the original prototype.

Android will be on the cards depending on the sales ....

Quote from: panzerde on January 25, 2015, 10:52:15 AM

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:43:12 AM
Game lasts 45 turns , victory determined by Hearts & Minds score, pasts about 2 to 3 hours.

Terrain and location of base and villages are random.

As it now stands , both IOS and PC use the same 3D engine and UI.

A game like this deserves an immersive, military looking map.

Best of luck.

And authentic sound effects. (Sadly overlooked by so many). Obviously the Huey; but also the small arms. Think I saw a vid with great radio chatter- or did I dream that...

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:57:42 AM
My original design I did with Operation Flashpoint mod had four provinces making up a Corps area as well as Cambodia and Loas , so this is the first iteration... :)

I think there will be a 2D military style tactical map in the future of this game, see the attached pic of the original prototype.

Android will be on the cards depending on the sales ....

I unashamedly Lurrrrve that map.  :smitten:

Hehe, I have tried to keep to authentic sounds in the upcoming release.

Yes, the into 'music' to the game is radio chatter from helicopters in the Vietnam War.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:57:42 AM
My original design I did with Operation Flashpoint mod had four provinces making up a Corps area as well as Cambodia and Loas , so this is the first iteration... :)

I think there will be a 2D military style tactical map in the future of this game, see the attached pic of the original prototype.

I saw the prototype map and thought it was exactly what was needed for this. Anyone who steered you away from that did you a disservice.

I was in two minds about it, but wanted wider appeal and maybe secretly recruit some 'tablet-top wargamers' to play a real war game  ;D

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 11:12:38 AM
I was in two minds about it, but wanted wider appeal and maybe secretly recruit some 'tablet-top wargamers' to play a real war game  ;D

I could see a scenario where it was a tough call.

Maybe you can have the best of both worlds (maps) down the line.

The hot-looking map you just pictured. Well she'd make a fine looking campaign level map

Agree, you will see I tried to embed it into the game in the Intel map, see earlier post  ;)

Looking at your screenshots for the game  from the wargamer.  I see you can deploy a Bell AH-1 Cobra. These didn't see service in Vietnam until 1967.

I chose 65 as it was the start of the ground war, the game simulates the war across the whole spectrum from beginning to end, certainly not just 1965  ;)

Is it just one limited area map? Nothing random?

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 10:43:12 AM
Game lasts 45 turns , victory determined by Hearts & Minds score, pasts about 2 to 3 hours.

Terrain and location of base and villages are random.

As it now stands , both IOS and PC use the same 3D engine and UI.

Sorry missed that.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 05:21:18 AM
PC beta should be out tomorrow ... :)

Did the invites go out today?

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 26, 2015, 08:18:44 PM

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 05:21:18 AM
PC beta should be out tomorrow ... :)

Did the invites go out today?

Beta sign up? It was out since the 12th.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=299&t=55363&sid=e4e5473eb079b9ae4864274404f45ba9

Quote from: jomni on January 26, 2015, 08:26:11 PM

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 26, 2015, 08:18:44 PM

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 25, 2015, 05:21:18 AM
PC beta should be out tomorrow ... :)

Did the invites go out today?

Beta sign up? It was out since the 12th.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=299&t=55363&sid=e4e5473eb079b9ae4864274404f45ba9

Sign up was, but that doesn't mean you were accepted to it.

So you meant invites to download.  I thought invite to sign up.

Quote from: jomni on January 26, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
So you meant invites to download.  I thought invite to sign up.

Correct, the developer in his message was implying the actual beta would be sent out to people accepted to the program.

Yeah I know the drill. I've done beta for some of their titles.

From what I can tell nothing made it out today

Game was scheduled to go out yesterday, managed to do a quick mini build fixing a few little bugs, should be today. ;)

PC Beta is live..... :)

Will the game go on Steam??

I prefer to have Steam these days with the auto patching and easy control of mods.

Yes, 5th of March  ;)

Quote from: Vietnam65 on January 27, 2015, 10:38:01 AM
Yes, 5th of March  ;)

Awesome, thanks for answering questions here.

From Rock/Paper/Shotgun...a Flare Path article, about a third of the way down it has a write-up on the Vietnam '65 beta with screen shots. Has other wargame news as well.   http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/30/the-flare-path-in-search-of-a-sub-title-subtitle/#more-266893

Quote from: Rayfer on January 31, 2015, 07:59:13 AM
From Rock/Paper/Shotgun...a Flare Path article, about a third of the way down it has a write-up on the Vietnam '65 beta with screen shots. Has other wargame news as well.   http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/30/the-flare-path-in-search-of-a-sub-title-subtitle/#more-266893

Ninja'ed with an entire topic!
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=12562.0

Sneak Peek at the game Vietnam '65 (over an hour long!)

Just skimming that and no sound but that's starting to look really interesting....  O0

Nice. I like it.

I remain full of squee.

Is squee a good thing ?  :-\

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 13, 2015, 01:08:55 PM
Is squee a good thing ?  :-\

LOL! Yes.... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squeeee

Oh good, then Thanks ;)

Vid shows it to have shaped up good.

What is it now, 18 days until 'Nam day? Yes, I'm counting

No no no, I didn't say "squee". I, uh... I said SQUEEEEONNKKK! The officially Toho-endorsed representation of the sound Godzilla makes.

(Still a good thing.  O0 )

Release date; March 5th

http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/sorry-charlie-vietnam-65-gets-release-date/

Can you play both sides?

the video and the game concept looks very interesting  O0

will the game be available on Steam from the beginning?

...just some ideas tumbled around to have some more unit buying options for immersing NAM atmosphere :)
how about adding the wellknown PBR unit which travels only on river hex (and gets only available to buy if a base is located/build next to a river hex) and the Vietnamese get of course a Sampan-unit (which travels also on the river, with some nice 'ghost' or 'stealthy' functionality  ...those get invisible when 2 hex close to a contested village because they blend with local population sampans)
movement speed of those river unit should be higher then Inf.  and the PBR faster then the Sampan
i don't know enuf about the game balance to propose ideas about the other stats/capabilities of these units   

also i would like to buy a LRRP unit
which can only recon but sees farer then the Green Berets , almost no combat strength, and an extended supply endurance when stationary (the 'size' of one hex would be already the 'patrol area' in the scale of the game.
you woudn't march them all over the map, just inflitrate and watch  ...as special ablity, maybe those can be droped in jungle hex too for an extra cost of supply-points for the chopper and LRRP unit itself)
 

i love the setting of the game  :)

Quote from: Boggit on February 15, 2015, 01:13:42 AM
Can you play both sides?

Only US/ARVN at this stage ...

Yes , going live on Steam and App Store 5th March.

Yes, we have got a wish list from PBR's to Pink Teams ...   :)

Like your ideas iro sampans tho  ???

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 04:02:57 AM

Quote from: Boggit on February 15, 2015, 01:13:42 AM
Can you play both sides?

Only US/ARVN at this stage ...

Yes , going live on Steam and App Store 5th March.

Yes, we have got a wish list from PBR's to Pink Teams ...   :)

Like your ideas iro sampans tho  ???

1. Biggest thing that jumped out at me was boy, I'll burn through 45 turns in no time... and can anticipate wanting an option for longer turn games;

2. and larger maps.

3. Add Two player and campaigns- and I think we'll have a classic coming our way.

4. Small point- but it looked like Green Berets were only being used for scouting and the vid guy said they were week for combat. Fair enough, but are there any mechanics for them being better at entering villages for Hearts and Minds and intel than regular infantry?

5. Also, if more flavour LRRP were added, or even with the Green Berets,- a mechanic where they remain weak in full combat but good at ambushing moving NVA and VC would be a very nice addition.

Oh, and I'm sure you've thought all this through as it sounded like you've immersed yourself in the era.

Quote
4. Small point- but it looked like Green Berets were only being used for scouting and the vid guy said they were week for combat. Fair enough, but are there any mechanics for them being better at entering villages for Hearts and Minds and intel than regular infantry?

Only a speculation of mine, but when he clicks the Green Berets, there is an icon of a soldier with a South Vietnamese flag.  I think those GB's are used to train indigenous forces (CIDG) to bolster the defense of the villages.  But the guy in the demo didn't use this feature.

Quote from: jomni on February 15, 2015, 05:56:57 AM

Quote
4. Small point- but it looked like Green Berets were only being used for scouting and the vid guy said they were week for combat. Fair enough, but are there any mechanics for them being better at entering villages for Hearts and Minds and intel than regular infantry?

Only a speculation of mine, but when he clicks the Green Berets, there is an icon of a soldier with a South Vietnamese flag.  I think those GB's are used to train indigenous forces (CIDG) to bolster the defense of the villages.  But the guy in the demo didn't use this feature.

Good spot, thanks Jomni. The guy in the vid seemed to go at it without a clear strategy... still looks like potential cliché of easy to play harder to master. Definitely looked like some good balance to force some decision making.

He didn't do a lot of things  ::)

Training ARVN is a big part of the game, as although they are weaker in combat they are better at gathering Intel from the locals ....

Quote from: fabius on February 15, 2015, 05:49:05 AM

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 04:02:57 AM

Quote from: Boggit on February 15, 2015, 01:13:42 AM
Can you play both sides?

Only US/ARVN at this stage ...

Yes , going live on Steam and App Store 5th March.

Yes, we have got a wish list from PBR's to Pink Teams ...   :)

Like your ideas iro sampans tho  ???

1. Biggest thing that jumped out at me was boy, I'll burn through 45 turns in no time... and can anticipate wanting an option for longer turn games;

Game lasts about 2 to 3 hours , the intent behind this game was "play the Vietnam War in under three hours"

[/quote]
and larger maps.
[/quote]

The prototype had larger maps, still something I want to explore, definitely if we build a Campaign in the future...

[/quote]
Add Two player and campaigns- and I think we'll have a classic coming our way.
[/quote]

I agree  ;)

[/quote]
Small point- but it looked like Green Berets were only being used for scouting
[/quote]

Army SF in V65 are used for scouting and training ARVN, can't gather Intel, but ARVN troops are better at gathering Intel than the US infantry

[/quote]
Also, if more flavour LRRP were added, or even with the Green Berets,- a mechanic where they remain weak in full combat but good at ambushing moving NVA and VC would be a very nice addition.
[/quote]

I think I have said it before in another forum maybe, but we have a wishlist from PBR's to Pink Teams  :)


There is so much more than can be added to this game ...

[/quote]
Oh, and I'm sure you've thought all this through as it sounded like you've immersed yourself in the era.
[/quote]

Really appreciate your feedback and ideas, and yes, immersed is a good word ... ^-^

The quoting function is not that user friendly in this forum, sorry ...

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 11:35:43 AM
The quoting function is not that user friendly in this forum, sorry ...

Just remove the '/' from each 1st quote pair. Each quote snippet should look like this: {quote} Hey look Ma! I'm quoting!{/quote} ,but using the '[ and ]' instead of '{ and }' and you get:

QuoteHey look Ma! I'm quoting!

You can also use the (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgrogheads.com%2Fforums%2FThemes%2Fdefault%2Fimages%2Fbbc%2Fquote.gif&hash=207b7a74f8c40cc9f393b35dcb9ad9d8cb155684) button above the composition window and then insert the copied snippet between the quote pairs.

dbl post. nm

Oh ok thanks, I was trying to highlight text then use quote  :-\

Yeah, that would be too easy for the likes of us.  :))

Maybe the forum's code-monkey will put it on his list if we give him a banana?

 ;D

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 11:34:00 AM

I think I have said it before in another forum maybe, but we have a wishlist from PBR's to Pink Teams  :)


There is so much more than can be added to this game ...


Really appreciate your feedback and ideas, and yes, immersed is a good word ... ^-^

Oh, I'm sure you have a longer list than possible, and judging from the interview and vid a good sense of direction with it...

Training ARVN for better intel sounds like a good mechanic in the mix.


Thanks again.


I'm swinging by Amazon later and picking up 'Unheralded Victory: The Defeat of the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army, 1961-1973'.

It's been on my wish list for a while. Anybody have any good 'Nam read recommendations.

Have they announced the price? Will it be another overpriced Slitherine game?

'Unheralded Victory: The Defeat of the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army, 1961-1973'.

Going to order that tomorrow then, thanks for the heads up !  :)

You tried 'Vietnam Solitaire' by White Dog Games , pretty good for single play.

Yeah, I really hope this is the first edition of V65, can really go into more depth Vietnam'66 Mekong Delta , Vietnam'67 Vietnamisation , you get the pic  ::)

Can't say  8)

But I think you will like it, we have debated it and the result is good  O0

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
'Unheralded Victory: The Defeat of the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army, 1961-1973'.

Going to order that tomorrow then, thanks for the heads up !  :)

You tried 'Vietnam Solitaire' by White Dog Games , pretty good for single play.

Yeah, I really hope this is the first edition of V65, can really go into more depth Vietnam'66 Mekong Delta , Vietnam'67 Vietnamisation , you get the pic  ::)

Not tried Vietnam Solitaire, but "A Distant Plain" is probably next on my board game list (Afghan COIN so kind of in your area of interest)

Yeah, all the best success with release so we get some expanded sequels.  :)

This game reminds me of a wonderful Advanced Tactics Scenario.   Basically the same feel but it covers the whole of vietnam. http://jomnisgames.blogspot.com/2012/06/battle-for-south-vietnam-aar-august.html

Fire in the Lake is very good, been playing Distant Plain and BCT Kandahar for the last few months, I will leave it there.... ;)

Thanks for the support

Quote from: fabius on February 15, 2015, 02:07:25 PM
Anybody have any good 'Nam read recommendations.

The War of the Flea: Guerrilla Warfare Theory and Practice Robert Taber
Old but good. At 160 pages it is short but deals very well with the politics, and tactical principles behind guerrilla warfare. Part of the book deals with Cuba and South America, but the rest is mainly Vietnam, both the French, and 'Murican experiences.

Vietnam: The Ten Thousand Day War - Michael Maclear
Focuses on the politics, policies and strategic issues from the end of WW2 to the fall of Saigon. Very well written, by a Canadian journalist who covered events in Vietnam for over 10 years.

We were Soldiers Once and Young - Lt. Gen Harold Moore and Joseph Galloway.

This covers in detail the Ia Drang valley battles in 1965, namely the battles for Landing Zone X-ray, and Landing Zone - Albany. There is no doubting the courage of the troops involved, nor (save for a few exceptions) the battlefield leadership by and large on both sides. However, the US lack of adequate planning, adequate recon led to a near disaster at X-ray for the US. Moreover, if you add to that the lack of proper march discipline, and inadequate flank guards it's not surprising it led to disaster at Albany where they were badly ambushed. Both sides claimed victory, but in all honesty - although they were mauled - the NVA seemed to come out of it better, especially at Albany. It's a very good read, and it's hard not to feel sympathy for the guys who carried out a nightmare mission that hadn't been given sufficient thought by the High Command. Both General Moore, and Joe Galloway were present at both battles, and their first hand experiences make their writing all the more focused.

Thanks Boggit. I have We were Soldiers Once and Young . Agreed, a good read, and it reminded me of how Black Hawk Down conveyed the chaos in battle.

Vietnam: The Ten Thousand Day War I'm really looking for tactical and operational reads to get pumped for the game  :D

The War of the Flea: Guerrilla Warfare Theory and Practice Robert Taber Have ordered this, Thanks!


Also been watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzvb1iLtfrc

The two strategic Vietnam books I own are both good though arriving at somewhat different though overlapping conclusions.

The Irony of Vietnam: the System Worked is a classic written not long after the 10KDayWar, very closely following the ebb and flow of the strategic decisions (at White House / Joint Chiefs level) in relation to public opinion. The meticulously traced conclusion is that, despite public perception after the war, in fact the administrations routinely chose to do what they believed (on grounds of the data available to them) the American people most wanted: to try to win 'freedom' for the South against the officially 'Communist' North (despite the South's government largely being criminal, against which the North was fighting a civil war and just taking any allies it could get) with reasonable efforts and minimal escalations perceived necessary to finally get the job done.

The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam is more broadly researched and more in-depth at the operational and tactical levels; but suffers a little from its righteous criticism of the situation: the author radically misreads the equally critical ironic defense of American Vietnam policy by the previous authors for example, as though they were trying to justify and positively defend the "technowar" system in sustaining myths about the war. (It doesn't help that the author clearly hadn't done the kind of research the previous authors had on their topic.) Other than that, it's a bracing examination of the military-industrial attitudes and philosophies established in and carried onward from WW2, and how they played out in Vietnam at all levels from chief administration down to the boots on the ground.

There's a summary interview with the author (on an old cable-access channel) somewhere on Youtube; it covers the salient points of the book admirably well. Here we go, 2 hours:






The book is much more in-depth, of course (and about 3 times longer than Irony, or so my Kindle says). Both books are fairly free of special bias in favor of liberal or conservative politics.

Chickenhawk by  Robert Mason.  I read that years ago, and was an awesome read for a young person joining an Air-mobile unit. Completely a pilots perspective, but very detailed and gritty.


And Nam: The Vietnam War in the Words of the Men and Women Who Fought There Mark Baker  was anecdotes, but and entreating read.

Quote from: Vietnam65 on February 15, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
'Unheralded Victory: The Defeat of the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army, 1961-1973'.

Going to order that tomorrow then, thanks for the heads up !  :)

You tried 'Vietnam Solitaire' by White Dog Games , pretty good for single play.

Yeah, I really hope this is the first edition of V65, can really go into more depth Vietnam'66 Mekong Delta , Vietnam'67 Vietnamisation , you get the pic  ::)

Its an interesting book, and quite convincing in its way, although I'm not sure that I agree with all the conclusions it draws.

Try any of the titles by Gary Linderer.  I really enjoyed Black Berets and Painted Faces.  I've always been partial to the small unit stuff though.

Quote from: KyzBP on February 20, 2015, 03:34:15 PM
Try any of the titles by Gary Linderer.  I really enjoyed Black Berets and Painted Faces.  I've always been partial to the small unit stuff though.

One of there reviews accusing him or seriously inflating his combat achievements.

Hey, Nam 65 is up on Steam proper now:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/336080/

Quote from: fabius on February 27, 2015, 05:45:38 PM

Quote from: KyzBP on February 20, 2015, 03:34:15 PM
Try any of the titles by Gary Linderer.  I really enjoyed Black Berets and Painted Faces.  I've always been partial to the small unit stuff though.

One of there reviews accusing him or seriously inflating his combat achievements.

Hey, Nam 65 is up on Steam proper now:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/336080/

That review was pretty interesting.  It's always a bummer when the "facts" emerge.  It's still a fun read though.

It will be a day 1 purchase for me.

Quote from: donkey_roxor on January 12, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
Ran across this on RPS' Flare Path early last year:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/28/the-flare-path-on-the-ho-chi-minh-trail/#more-192195 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/28/the-flare-path-on-the-ho-chi-minh-trail/#more-192195)

There's a downloadable PC prototype at:

http://www.vietnam65.com/ (http://www.vietnam65.com/)

About that RPS quote...for some Reason Slitherine has it posted twice under two different dates (and different years). Weird.

Also...who's the developer? Did I miss it? For some reason I didn't see it on the product page.

The RPS article was published on Feb 28, 2014.  Maybe it was already march in UK (Slitherine's location).
And that Slitherine announcement was really made on Feb 2015. 

Alright, I have my 60's soundtrack ready.  Nothing left to do but patiently wait.

there is a play through going on just atm over at twich   O0

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

there's a preview of this one on the mythical front page today

Still not sure about this one....certainly will be watching impressions..

Quote from: MikeGER on March 04, 2015, 02:07:02 PM
there is a play through going on just atm over at twich   O0

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

I can't get the video to play. Tried in Firefox and Opera.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 04, 2015, 06:34:43 PM
Still not sure about this one....certainly will be watching impressions..

Me too. It looks very light. I was hoping for a more detailed Vietnam game.

Quote from: LongBlade on March 04, 2015, 06:47:27 PM

Quote from: MikeGER on March 04, 2015, 02:07:02 PM
there is a play through going on just atm over at twitch   O0

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

I can't get the video to play. Tried in Firefox and Opera.

it was a life event from 8:00 to 9:15pm CET ,   ...i dunno if its possible to see it as vid later at twitch?
i hope it will surface soon over at Youtube on the Slitherine channel   

actually i saw some features in action that were not used in the last presentation:
like setting Infantry to lay in ambush, sweeping mines,  3 turns to train a local units by Green Baretts in a forward Firebase, which had also airhowled howitzers placed in it, and such...  :-)

I think the best approach is to see it as an abstract COIN Vietnam themed operational wargame even so the really cute animation of single units (representing the work of a bigger unit heavy on the type displayed over approximately 1-2 week a turn and a stretch of let say 5-10 klicks a hex area) 'lead the casual player away' from that perspective.
It has way more strategic deep in it, then the cute graphics suggest

I am hooked and plan to jump into the turm by turn growing logistical COIN nightmare these eve at late night :-)
     

Quote from: MikeGER on March 05, 2015, 02:53:21 AM

Quote from: LongBlade on March 04, 2015, 06:47:27 PM

Quote from: MikeGER on March 04, 2015, 02:07:02 PM
there is a play through going on just atm over at twitch   O0

http://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

I can't get the video to play. Tried in Firefox and Opera.

it was a life event from 8:00 to 9:15pm CET ,   ...i dunno if its possible to see it as vid later at twitch?
i hope it will surface soon over at Youtube on the Slitherine channel   

actually i saw some features in action that were not used in the last presentation:
like setting Infantry to lay in ambush, sweeping mines,  3 turns to train a local units by Green Baretts in a forward Firebase, which had also airhowled howitzers placed in it, and such...  :-)

I think the best approach is to see it as an abstract COIN Vietnam themed operational wargame even so the really cute animation of single units (representing the work of a bigger unit heavy on the type displayed over approximately 1-2 week a turn and a stretch of let say 5-10 klicks a hex area) 'lead the casual player away' from that perspective.
It has way more strategic deep in it, then the cute graphics suggest

I am hooked and plan to jump into the turm by turn growing logistical COIN nightmare these eve at late night :-)
     

I think you make a fair assessment of the game. I liked it. It is more of a casual game rather than hardcore, but it is fun and a challenge.

There's no non-Steam version?  Bought it anyway.  O0

Quote from: jomni on March 05, 2015, 06:39:45 AM
There's no non-Steam version?  Bought it anyway.  O0

I didn't think the Steam version had unlocked yet, so I bought it directly from Matrix.

For those on the fence, it's only $10 ($9 from Steam), which puts it into my "why not?" zone.

Quote from: tgb on March 05, 2015, 06:57:15 AM

Quote from: jomni on March 05, 2015, 06:39:45 AM
There's no non-Steam version?  Bought it anyway.  O0

I didn't think the Steam version had unlocked yet, so I bought it directly from Matrix.

For those on the fence, it's only $10 ($9 from Steam), which puts it into my "why not?" zone.

Steam installed already.  Price doesn't really hurt the wallet.

Holy Cow, £6.99- Steam. Heading to the LZ now  :D

Finished first tutorial mission until the end (turn 45).  Not a bad game.  Well worth the price.  I see a lot of gaming here because of the random levels but things do get repetitive at some point.

For $9 I don't think I can resist.  :D

I like it. I never thought I would say this about a Matrix/Slitherine title, but it might be priced too low.  The $10 price tag combined with the graphics might cause some to think it's a lot more casual than it is.  It's not a game for hard-core grogs, but I would classify it as more beer-n-pretzels than casual.

Yes, not hard core. It's something I'd play for a while, do something else, then come back and play a bit more. As each game generates a random map you can play a game as and when. From that point of view I'd say casual - style wise, I agree with Tgb - Beer and Pretzels. It's fun. :) I think the price makes it an easy decision.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Famrv4g.png&hash=7cb663811234d76e8627100a01e719a271f2673d)
tactical situation on my first game  :)
turn 11, and i have something close to 4k political points savings to operate with atm   

Quote from: MikeGER on March 05, 2015, 11:08:39 AM

tactical situation on my first game  :)
turn 11, and i have something close to 4k political points savings to operate with atm

Lucky you, you got a rookie first AO  ;)

Quote from: KyzBP on March 03, 2015, 05:20:25 PM
Alright, I have my 60's soundtrack ready.  Nothing left to do but patiently wait.

If you really want to get in the mood, I recommend "In Country" basically songs the troops wrote themselves.  Great titles like: "Grunt" "Six-Clicks" "Ho Chi Minh Trail" "Fighter Pilot's Christmas" and "First Cav"

Really great stuff, highly recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/Country-Folk-Songs-Americans-Vietnam/dp/B00106GE6C/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1&qid=1425571817

Quote from: tgb on March 05, 2015, 06:57:15 AM

Quote from: jomni on March 05, 2015, 06:39:45 AM
There's no non-Steam version?  Bought it anyway.  O0

I didn't think the Steam version had unlocked yet, so I bought it directly from Matrix.

For those on the fence, it's only $10 ($9 from Steam), which puts it into my "why not?" zone.

I was planning on spending $20 on it so this is great news!

Quote from: ArizonaTank on March 05, 2015, 11:16:26 AM

Quote from: KyzBP on March 03, 2015, 05:20:25 PM
Alright, I have my 60's soundtrack ready.  Nothing left to do but patiently wait.

If you really want to get in the mood, I recommend "In Country" basically songs the troops wrote themselves.  Great titles like: "Grunt" "Six-Clicks" "Ho Chi Minh Trail" "Fighter Pilot's Christmas" and "First Cav"

Really great stuff, highly recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/Country-Folk-Songs-Americans-Vietnam/dp/B00106GE6C/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-1&qid=1425571817

I will check it out. Thanks AZTank.

I really, really wanted to like this title....and I do!  I've only got about 25 turns in, and I haven't read the manual yet, but I really like what I've seen so far.  The mechanics really seem to force you into a war of attrition. 

I just wanted to check in and say that this is well worth the $9 or $10. :)

The little I've seen so far I rather like.  I'm generally averse to games that feel like they might have been designed for play on mobile devices, but a good beer and pretzels game isn't quite the same thing.  I also hate randomly generated maps, but what I've seen so far doesn't bother me that much.

What I find surprising is that it is one side only.  If you could play both sides and if it weren't saddled with Matrix's restrictive concept of PBEM, it could be a winner.  I usually avoid PBEM scenarios that run more than a score of turns, but I don't think it would be a problem because there aren't very many pieces to worry about.

But I say that without having played through any scenarios, so I don't know how balanced it is/could be.

I think this game is perfect for one player only. The war is asymmetric and the communist abide to different rules and objectives. Game mechanics are tailor made to make it difficult for the Free World forces and thus the AI might be more optimized. Just like that Hannibal game.

Have to admit, I breached the no-new-game-buy rule this year for this game. :)

AND I AM HERE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO!!

PROPHET!!

I AM A PROPHET!!

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Vietnam 65...the gateway game.

I'm having trouble figuring out exactly where to position firebases so that my artillery can cover all the nearby hamlets.  Is this WAD, or should there be some kind of measuring tool ?  I hate being able to count hexes on a visible hexgrid, so if this ambiguity isn't intentional (simulating inaccurate maps ?) perhaps something that shows howitzer ranges would be in order.  I have a similar problem with Cobra attack ranges, but a three hex stand-off is easier to figure out.

(I was also expecting to fly around the landscape shooting up the landscape with machine guns from my Huey, but that's another story).

Quote from: Philippe on March 06, 2015, 01:45:08 PM
I'm having trouble figuring out exactly where to position firebases so that my artillery can cover all the nearby hamlets.  Is this WAD, or should there be some kind of measuring tool ?  I hate being able to count hexes on a visible hexgrid, so if this ambiguity isn't intentional (simulating inaccurate maps ?) perhaps something that shows howitzer ranges would be in order.  I have a similar problem with Cobra attack ranges, but a three hex stand-off is easier to figure out.

(I was also expecting to fly around the landscape shooting up the landscape with machine guns from my Huey, but that's another story).

Yeah, all gut feel.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KuZGNsoxgLg/VPo9HRtvLbI/AAAAAAAAJu8/tWJx9nHnJhs/w1598-h899-no/2015-03-07_00001.jpg)

My first campaign, normal difficulty, resulted in a victory with 60+ hearts and minds.  It's not too hard to win.  Lucky that there are three villages close to each other that can be constantly patrolled by infantry.  I put my Fire Base there.
My Forward Base near the other edge of the map was the site of an epic struggle.  It sustained numerous attacks from VC and NVA (including tanks).  Whatever I put there, SF, INF, ARVN would take casualties.  So there is a constant ferrying of troops in and out of the area via Huey and M113.  The helicopters occasionally get damaged as well by RPG attacks.  I placed an arty there but being so far from the Main Base means it takes a lot of time for it receive ammo.  So it was quite useless at times especially during the intense attacks.  The constant attacks also bring in a lot of money since you get to kill a lot units.  I got enough money to build a tank and sent it there but time ran out for it to see some real action.  I won anyway.

This game captures the feel of 'Nam nicely.  And there is a big emphasis on logistics.  I won't call this a casual game.

I find no use for the Corbra (based on my experience in Training).  And I will probably buy a Chinook for those long range supply missions.


Oh I've been reading the reviews and here's a summary of those who voted against the game.
1)  "The game is too simple and ugly and looks like a tablet game."  They are somewhat correct on the looks part but it can be deceiving.  The game may be simple at the start but there is some depth on how you place your bases and do your resupply.
2)  "The game is too tedious especially the resupply stuff."  Well that's also true but I like these things and supply is the aspect that actually makes the game deep.

QuoteI find no use for the Corbra (based on my experience in Training)

. 

The Cobra and tank are outstanding tools for lethal targeting.

The Cobra can move long range and engage targets for multiple turns. Works well when paired with SF Recon that are conducting deep recon or units away from the flagpole.

Tanks are basically mobile artillery. Again, they work well when supporting SF Recon, outside of artillery range. Easier than establishing fire bases.

Hello, on my Website is also a free Vietnam war game .

www.peoplesgeneral.de

I won my first "real" game on Normal difficulty with a H&M score of 64, giving me a decisive victory.  This despite a couple of rookie errors like sending engineers out unprotected (I lost 2 by mid-game and never replaced them).  I will be playing my next on Veteran to see if it gives me more of a challenge.

Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on March 08, 2015, 11:01:31 PM

QuoteI find no use for the Corbra (based on my experience in Training)

. 

The Cobra and tank are outstanding tools for lethal targeting.

The Cobra can move long range and engage targets for multiple turns. Works well when paired with SF Recon that are conducting deep recon or units away from the flagpole.

Tanks are basically mobile artillery. Again, they work well when supporting SF Recon, outside of artillery range. Easier than establishing fire bases.

Ditto. I use my Cobra as a fast strike force, mostly when Charlie pops up unexpectedly or my SF Recon spots the enemy and there is nothing closer to make the kill. Using it in conjunction with deep recon is also very effective. I played the game all weekend and I'm going back in momentarily. Very enjoyable and fun game!

I guess I need to read the manual, as I'm just not getting it. After 10-20 turns I find myself still huddled around the eastern third of the map, unwilling to expand further outward without being able to bring massive support to the field. Expansion strings me out too much, and that's exactly when the VC appear, right when I'm at my worst.

There aren't enough resources to really mount an effective campaign, and the supply rules hamstring the efforts even further. I can't get my overall H&M beyond 51 or 52, and I know that's because I'm not able to visit most of the villages on the map. More often than not I'll get a "population not cooperative" or "no new intel" result, which leaves me all, "ooookay, WTF do I do now?" Not to mention having troops on the end of a very long supply line.

I know none of these are insurmountable as you guys are having a good time addressing them. I want to like this game, but it's frustrating and I feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall. I just need to get an idea as to strategy. Anyone care to share some pointers?

I'm pretty sure most of the issue is my lack of uber-aggression, but without the troops and 'copters to back that up...

Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 09, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
I guess I need to read the manual, as I'm just not getting it. After 10-20 turns I find myself still huddled around the eastern third of the map, unwilling to expand further outward without being able to bring massive support to the field. Expansion strings me out too much, and that's exactly when the VC appear, right when I'm at my worst.

There aren't enough resources to really mount an effective campaign, and the supply rules hamstring the efforts even further. I can't get my overall H&M beyond 51 or 52, and I know that's because I'm not able to visit most of the villages on the map. More often than not I'll get a "population not cooperative" or "no new intel" result, which leaves me all, "ooookay, WTF do I do now?" Not to mention having troops on the end of a very long supply line.

I know none of these are insurmountable as you guys are having a good time addressing them. I want to like this game, but it's frustrating and I feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall. I just need to get an idea as to strategy. Anyone care to share some pointers?

I'm pretty sure most of the issue is my lack of uber-aggression, but without the troops and 'copters to back that up...

What I've been doing is putting all my Grunts on Choppers in the first turn and sending them to take the 3 closest villages with LZ's.  Next I push the Engineer out for a turn or two and then build an FOB.  I send my SF guys to that FOB and churn out a couple of ARVN units.  The ARVN units then move forward.  The Engineer continues forward and builds the Firebase somewhere near the center of the map.  I ferry the Arty to the Firebase and buy another Huey to start supplying all the units.  After that it really depends on the map.  I've been winning more than losing on both regular and veteran.  I've only used the Tank once.  I've never used the Chinook or M113. 

Feel free to be aggressive, it's only a game. :)

Thanks, KyzBP. I'll give it a shot.

I knew I was being way too timid.

You might want to go through the advanced tutorial one more time.  The advanced tutorial is very useful because it isn't a how-to as much as an exposition of the important rules.  That and paying close attention to unit capabilities but especially their costs (click on all the i-buttons in the recruitment list) will probably give you 95% of what you need to know. 

Engineer units may be the most important units in the game.  One of the first things I do is buy a second one.  I build as many forward bases as I can afford, and make sure that there is an infantry unit in defensive posture inside of each one most of the time.  As soon as I can afford it I buy a second Green Beret -- one of them spends all of its time recruiting ARVN, so I tend to need a second one if I'm going to do any recon.

I've played around with attack helicopters and tanks, but I think I'd rather have an extra artillery unit or two backed up by a Chinook.  Since I build roads and forward bases everywhere, I've found the M113 surprisingly useful -- it's not only good for ferrying supplies, but can pack a surprisingly effective punch when attacked.

I don't like risking casualties so I tend to avoid closing with the enemy.  Getting in range of an RPG with a tank or a helicopter can be expensive, hence the reliance on air strikes and artillery.  Bases tend to attract counter-attacks, so putting an infantry unit in defensive posture inside of one protects the base and keeps it from walking into minefields and ambushes.

The key to this game seems to be not spending yourself into the ground.  If you use the kind of approach I'm describing the enemy will end up building three or four bases, and you probably won't know where they are (or won't want to go there even if you have a fair idea where they are.  Plan around losing a thousand political points a day in the second half of the game, and make sure you don't run out of political support: if you do, you engineers will stop clearing jungle, and that can be very bad.

You don't need to control the entire map to win.  Just try to control what you know you can defend and set up a defense you can afford.  This tends to be determined by geography and how many garrisoned bases and roads you manage to build.

And the nice thing about having an a lot of bases and a Chinook is that you can fly your one or two artillery units around from base to base, rather than going broke putting artillery in each one.

In some respects the first half of the game reminds me a little bit of playing Go -- you scatter a few of your pieces around the map, but do it in such a way that they are mutually supporting.

Or sumfink.

Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 09, 2015, 12:51:11 PMI knew I was being way too timid.

No kiddi...

Oh, you're talking about the game.  Gotcha

 ???

Wish there was a way to automate resupply.

Supply is half the game.

Quote from: Philippe on March 09, 2015, 04:07:49 PM
Supply is half the game.

i know...that's why I wish it could be automated. It gets boring constantly ferrying Hueys back and forth and it is tedious checking every unit to see their current supply status. I'm not suggesting that supply shouldn't be a critical part of the game, but I think it could be managed better. 

Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 09, 2015, 12:51:11 PM
Thanks, KyzBP. I'll give it a shot.

I knew I was being way too timid.

You won't earn money just by sitting somewhere.  Each VC and NVA you kill brings in money.  So that means you have to be brave and stir the hornet's nest.  Build forward bases as bait.

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 09, 2015, 04:27:36 PM

i know...that's why I wish it could be automated. It gets boring constantly ferrying Hueys back and forth and it is tedious checking every unit to see their current supply status. I'm not suggesting that supply shouldn't be a critical part of the game, but I think it could be managed better.

i wish there were a function (a 'continuous supply' crate icon in the wheel menu) where i can 'slave' a certain chopper to a certain unit and then it just flys back and for until told otherwise, or get shot down ...of course it moves out only up too 2 turns its max range and 2 turn back and ends his return trip always in the depot to refresh/heal

i am actually doing this by hand for all my Inf-type units in the field...some  wait in ambush if possible in the jungle next to a village so that they can 'stamp out the fire' immediately every time it shows up   

This tedious task is what's turning off some people.

Every now and then I go and clean out my Steam cards by putting them up for auction. Most go for around a dime, some as much as 15 cents. It's tedious since you have to click each card individually, put each up for sale individually, etc......but it's free money.

I saw I had three Vietnam 65 cards and when I clicked on them I noticed the average auction price was .50 apiece. I put them up on Steam and they sold immediately.

Basically auctioning off your Steam cards amounts to having a dollar or two taken off future purchases if you sell enough of them. The cards for Vietnam '65 are trading for much more than usual right now, so if you have any it looks like a sellers market.

Quote from: Steelgrave on March 14, 2015, 11:08:42 AM
Every now and then I go and clean out my Steam cards by putting them up for auction. Most go for around a dime, some as much as 15 cents. It's tedious since you have to click each card individually, put each up for sale individually, etc......but it's free money.

I saw I had three Vietnam 65 cards and when I clicked on them I noticed the average auction price was .50 apiece. I put them up on Steam and they sold immediately.

Basically auctioning off your Steam cards amounts to having a dollar or two taken off future purchases if you sell enough of them. The cards for Vietnam '65 are trading for much more than usual right now, so if you have any it looks like a sellers market.

I did that on day one and made $1.80.  That's the most I've ever gotten selling cards...by far.

I  made $3 bucks today and made $15 the first time I cleaned out my stock. But then...I have a lot of games on Steam. I look at the trading cards like discount coupons. Go put a bunch up for sale every few months and take a few bucks off a game. No biggie either way.

Is the dev still around? I've got a few questions, from an AAR I'm running here at Grogheads (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13072.msg340155#msg340155), and he may be able to clarify some rules for me.

The most important one at the moment, specifically, is why the NVA are activating already. And does it mean a tank is coming, and if so does it mean support is coming with the tank (and if so generally what can I expect)?

Here's an update from the Slitherine forums:

Quote from: Vietnam65We are currently working frantically to release an update to V65, items we are going to include are the following:

1. Fog of war , map tiles out of detection ranges will be 'greyed out'
2. Weather , rain will effect combat and Airstrike availability , three day weather forecast on Intel map
3. Villages will have names
4. Player can name US bases and units
5. Combat modifiers to include weather, supply status, proximity to friendly units
6. Custom game option , player can set variables for custom game incl. victory conditions, enemy aggression etc
7. Hex overlays on both maps
8. UI improvements - upgrade on deselect function, Action buttons for selected unit to move to bottom of screen as opposed to being clustered around the unit, helps with tile selection and panning

Update is 2 to 3 weeks away, will update on timing as and when.

Thanks for all the support.

A good set of updates.

Quote from: JasonPratt on March 21, 2015, 06:51:51 PM
Is the dev still around? I've got a few questions, from an AAR I'm running here at Grogheads (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13072.msg340155#msg340155), and he may be able to clarify some rules for me.

The most important one at the moment, specifically, is why the NVA are activating already. And does it mean a tank is coming, and if so does it mean support is coming with the tank (and if so generally what can I expect)?

NVA activate on three occasions:

1. Every turn there is a chance a NVA unit will start either a base attack or ambush mission, the % chance of such a mission is dependent on the overall HM score , higher the HM score less chance of being created and vice versa

2. Whenever a village HM goes below 40 ( NVA flag flying in village ) a NVA unit is dispatched to setup a support base close to that village, if destroyed will keep trying until Village HM rises above 40

3. If the overall HM is net negative for three consecutive turns the NVA launch an offensive, represented by NVA armor, counter then reset to 0 awaiting for next three turn negatives.

Hope this helps

Sounds like a very deadly snowballing effect with no way to recover once it starts.  the player must prevent this from happening and keep H&M up.

There is a way out of the spiral and it has to do with shifting your focus to the conventional war (Cobra's, Armor etc), defeating the enemy (gaining big PP) then re-focusing onto the non-conventional war and hopefully having enough time to get the HM up.

Of course, the best solution is to keep the VC (and subsequently the NVA) in hand from the start, sometimes not so easy...

I am 1000% in favor of all listed updated plans. :)

The NVA spiral, as described, is fine with me: it's legitimately avoidable, and something can be done about it once it starts, and it gets that far as a result of good/bad play by the AI/player respectively, and/or by reasonable good/bad luck.

What isn't fine with me is the Victory Generators (aka the NVA bases). The only reason the computer doesn't omnipotently secure an unbeatable win by the morning of Day 5 on every game, is because it's hampered by several random factors from doing so on one hand, and because it was never taught to make the most efficient choices with them on the other. Player strategies and tactics mean nothing, or possibly worse than nothing sometimes depending on circumstances; everything else is a sideshow until either the Victory Generators accidentally manage to come out, or until the player is in a position very late game to stomp them if they haven't accidentally come out already. Meaning by then the player has already secured his own win simply due to (in effect) the computer having dry-clicked the loaded revolver at him x-number of times without effect.

I have an extended and detailed analysis-rant about this over on my AAR thread starting here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13072.msg340941#msg340941).

The easiest solution (which I'm going to try modding in myself tonight, if I can find where to do it) would be to reduce the daily damage of political support to 100 or maybe even to 66 a day. In other words, hobble the computer from deploying its guaranteed winning strategy one step further. Not really a true solution to the underlying problem, but it should be workable in practice.

A more detailed solution would be to make the bases only affect the HAM score in one or two ways, not the US political score at all. More details on that and other balancing (yet still asynchronous) recommendations here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=13072.msg341052#msg341052), further down the rant. ;)

TMA podcast discusses Vietnam '65, with Rob Zacny, Troy Goodfellow, Bruce Geryk and Tom Chick for their 300th episode!!

https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/vietnam-65

Johan's new update is coming soon; he has posted screenshots here: http://www.vietnam65.com/news--update.html

The confirmed update list is mostly bling and UI, but it affects American playstyle quite importantly in one way. (More updates could be coming either with this patch or later -- this is only the confirmed list so far.)

1. Fog of war , map tiles out of detection ranges will be 'greyed out' -- not sure if this will be optional. I would be grateful for the option, since on one hand the FOW could be very useful and on the other hand the lack of being able to visually verify it helps with the paranoia.  :D

2. Weather , rain will effect combat and Airstrike availability , three day weather forecast -- this could be a potentially huge game changer (and looks sharp!), and not in favor of the Americans! But I can't really complain about it because it makes good sense (and looks sharp!)

3. Villages will have names
4. Player can name US bases and units -- bling, but nice bling. I would like an option to name the villages, too, but I understand for flavor why that still isn't possible. (Even though American units did have nicknames for the villages.)

5. Combat modifiers to include weather, supply status, proximity to friendly units -- another potentially huge game changer. The modifier for supply status is so huge I kind of wish/hope it's an option. There are just too many times when my infantries are on the ragged edge of 2 or 1 supplies remaining and yet are expected to win fights. I do understand the point, it makes sense, but I think it would make better sense if units were hit with combat penalties for being three days out of supply instead: technically even with one day's supply left they are still in supply and well fed. (That the units simply die in the field one day out of supply has never made sense though I grudgingly understand the gamey reasons why. )

6. Custom game option , player can set variables for custom game incl. victory conditions -- this would be quite nice

7. Hex overlays on both maps -- not only will this be nice, but it will hugely help fix the perspective slants between the main game map and the overmap, the latter of which doesn't always line up visually.

8. UI improvements - upgrade on deselect function, Action buttons for selected unit to move to bottom of screen as opposed to being clustered around the unit. -- hugely appreciated. The first especially because there remains no undo function (which i understand, it's a game mainly about detection and a clever player can exploit the way Panzer General games allow limited undos before detection.) And the second because the action buttons obscured the hexes I wanted to use about one time in ten or twenty (which in this game is a lot).

Having combat be affected by how low on supplies a unit is really unbalances the game.  The solution might be to have helicopter deliver more supplies - 10 instead of 5 - but I don't know if that would help.

If the Chinook could carry double loads even - that would help and add a little more realism.

Still - you start taking combat penalties every 3 turns or so?  That's ridiculous.

I'm hoping this is an option and not an ironclad rule.  :buck2:

The helicopters don't deliver a set number of supplies. They each deliver the maximum supplies needed to top off whichever unit they're assigned to. In fact you can change your supply target mid run, and the new target tops off just the same.

The solution would be to add more days of supply per unit, I think. Right now standard American infantry gets 5 days before expiring. Jump that to 8, but the last three days are technically out of supply and so they take combat penalty hits until they starve. Other units go up the same way.

Official update announcement:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3841680

To me it seems these changes will further improve the game. We´ll see.  ;)

Looks good.

I don't see anything on that list about supply affecting combat.  Perhaps they thought better of it.

Thank God. Though I would have been okay with that being an option.

The rule additions/changes do solve a riddle I had been curious about: whether negative political was even possible in the game and/or whether it meant an instant loss. Since once negative p-sup has been reached the American team would necessarily enter a painful paralyzing death spiral.

Combat bonuses and penalties for terrain, spotting and weather: I had heard about weather before, not about terrain and spotting. Great!

M113 has detection when carrying friendly infantry: I had honestly forgotten, or never learned from the rules, that the APCs could carry infantry like the helicopters.

This of course begs the question of why helicopters cannot similarly detect (and perhaps even better).  :P

I am pretty much in favor of all changes and additions.  O0

Note that the list may still be missing some details, however: the subsequent screenshots show a clarification of what minesweeping affects (I thought it was out three hexes, actually two, which to be fair makes a lot more sense -- even only one hex out would make more sense to be fair, or rather minesweeping ought to equal scouting detection).

If you're like me, and I know I am, you've been logging onto Steam every day wondering when the new V65 update was going to release.

So, an update on the update: now tentatively scheduled for May 20.

We have finished the development, will submit to Apple this week and who knows, could be sooner  ;)

Squee!

...no. No I did not just squee. (Sigh.)

Article on the imminent update release.

http://wargamer.com/Article/10129

New official update release date: June 1.

THE PROMISED TIME HAS COME!

After a weekend complaining about March having 30 and 31 days, the game updated today. Short update, only a few dozen Megs. Haven't played it yet. (Pretty massive Mordheim Early Access update 5, more like 2.5 Gigs, but of course a much different game.)

May hold off playing the update for a few days to let other people trip over the hotpatch bait. ;)

I like the new game sliders, adjusting the difficulty settings. Everything I have read says that this can be a brutally difficult game.

Not much fun when you get yer ass handed to you regularly.

Quote from: DennisS on June 02, 2015, 09:57:26 AM
I like the new game sliders, adjusting the difficulty settings. Everything I have read says that this can be a brutally difficult game.

Not much fun when you get yer ass handed to you regularly.

I found release version easy.

So crank the enemy to Elite, increase jungle density, enable political defeat and Add some more rain for good measure, let me know how that works out .... ;)

Quote from: Vietnam65 on June 02, 2015, 11:22:04 AM
So crank the enemy to Elite, increase jungle density, enable political defeat and Add some more rain for good measure, let me know how that works out .... ;)

Apologies, I should clarify. Not easy in a too easy boring kind of a way. Easy to win the war, but with challenging decisions to be made along the way.

Haha, ok your challenge accepted  :)