QuoteIsrael was drawn into the Syrian civil war for the first time on Sunday, firing warning shots into the neighboring country after a stray mortar shell fired from Syrian territory hit an Israeli military post.
The Israeli military said the mortar fire caused no injuries or damage at the post in the Golan Heights, which Israel captured from Syria in the 1967 Mideast war and then annexed. But in recent weeks, incidents of errant fire from Syria have multiplied, leading Israel to warn that it holds Syria responsible for fire on Israeli-held territory.
"A short while ago, a mortar shell targeted an IDF (Israel Defense Forces) post in the Golan Heights," said army spokeswoman Lt. Col. Avital Leibovich. "We answered with a warning shot toward Syrian areas. We understand this was a mistake and was not meant to target Israel and then that is why we fired a warning shot in retaliation."
The Israeli military also said it has filed a complaint through United Nations forces operating in the area, stating that "fire emanating from Syria into Israel will not be tolerated and shall be responded to with severity."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/11/israel-fires-warning-shot-into-syria-after-stray-mortar-hits-golan-heights/?test=latestnews#ixzz2BxP0zuvb
Either someone in Syria doesn't know how to aim their mortars or they were just bored with bothering Turkey. :o
Do you think this was an accident or a ploy to try and get some help from Iran should Israeli respond any more?
Random intentional incompetence. Lets lob shells over there...
The Israelis will only intervene when they think it pertinent. Otherwise they will respond with nothing more than an appropriate response. Like this.
I'd luv to see a nice precision attack on the leadership to let Mr. Assad know his days are numbered. It seemed to get Khaddfi's attention and calm him down for a while.
Watching TV a couple of days ago it appeared some rebels were shelling one of Assad's palaces. Seems to me he may already have received that memo.
This relates to Gaza, not Syria, but may be of interest.
2nd day of air strikes against targets in Gaza after rocket attacks were launched.
QuoteIsraeli airstrikes hit Palestinian targets in Gaza overnight, scoring direct hits on a "terror tunnel" and a weapons storage facility, the military said Monday.
A military representative said militants have launched more than 110 rockets since Saturday.
"The IDF will not tolerate any attempt to harm Israeli civilians, and will operate against anyone who uses terror against the State of Israel," an Israel Defense Forces statement said. "The Hamas terror organization is solely responsible for any terrorist activity emanating from the Gaza Strip."
source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/12/world/israel-gaza/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
And on the Syrian side of the border...
QuoteThe military says that Israeli tanks opened fire on targets in Syria on Monday after the mortar round landed in an open area in the Israeli-controlled Golan Heights.
Israeli military officials say "Syrian mobile artillery" was hit. The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity under military guidelines, gave no further details.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/12/israel-fires-at-syria-for-second-consecutive-day/
Yeah, this place's going to war... :P
In the south, Hamas continuously strikes from Gaza, hitting military forces at first, and then bombarding houses with rockets and artillery.
In the north, Assad has brought tanks into the DMZ in the Golan (a huge breach of the cease-fire treaty), and soon forces patrolling along the border were fired upon
by the Syrians. Next several mortar shells landed in in various places (military base, a town, etc...) prompting retaliatory fire from the IDF.
And the Syrian rebels ("Free Syria Army") has already started making threats about attacking us.
So far only in the center there's somewhat peace, with Palestinian president Abbas's reluctance to resort to violence and the IDF presence in the West Bank.
But who knows how long this semi-peace will last...
Quote from: Tpek on November 12, 2012, 11:58:34 AM
And the Syrian rebels ("Free Syria Army") has already started making threats about attacking us.
Disappointed but not surprised. Is this a ploy to win more local support because no way can the rebels make good on that threat at present or in the near future. Even a possible overture to Iran, ditch the doomed, embrace the "new" and keep the status quo.
Quote from: The Puss on November 12, 2012, 05:02:06 PM
Quote from: Tpek on November 12, 2012, 11:58:34 AM
And the Syrian rebels ("Free Syria Army") has already started making threats about attacking us.
Disappointed but not surprised. Is this a ploy to win more local support because no way can the rebels make good on that threat at present or in the near future. Even a possible overture to Iran, ditch the doomed, embrace the "new" and keep the status quo.
Just to point out that Al-Qaeda is one of the topmost leading factions amongst the rebels...
Quote from: Tpek on November 14, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: The Puss on November 12, 2012, 05:02:06 PM
Quote from: Tpek on November 12, 2012, 11:58:34 AM
And the Syrian rebels ("Free Syria Army") has already started making threats about attacking us.
Disappointed but not surprised. Is this a ploy to win more local support because no way can the rebels make good on that threat at present or in the near future. Even a possible overture to Iran, ditch the doomed, embrace the "new" and keep the status quo.
Just to point out that Al-Qaeda is one of the topmost leading factions amongst the rebels...
Yeah. I'm not sure there are many "good guys" over there. Just choices between worse and worser.
Things look they are heating up:
http://www.aljazeera.com/
I heard a rumor that we've now got an ongoing military exercise in Jordan.
This does not bode well.
Just counting the days 'til 21 2012......
Israel is playing for keeps....
Israel military: Hamas assassination is beginning of an operation against Gaza militants
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/israel-military-hamas-assassination-beginning-operation-against-gaza-151912448.html
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FhZJzJpuBieYfzXAniJMcAw--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0xMjc7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2FReuters%2F2012-11-14T181834Z_1636749034_GM1E8BF06C401_RTRMADP_3_PALESTINIANS-ISRAEL-HAMAS.JPG&hash=0d7271644d5f8fe475246f11c9f36c0918f10c05)
EDIT: I'm leaving on Saturday.... just hope it stays "calm" in the middle til then.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 14, 2012, 03:34:33 PM
Israel is playing for keeps....
Israel military: Hamas assassination is beginning of an operation against Gaza militants
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/israel-military-hamas-assassination-beginning-operation-against-gaza-151912448.html
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FhZJzJpuBieYfzXAniJMcAw--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0xMjc7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2FReuters%2F2012-11-14T181834Z_1636749034_GM1E8BF06C401_RTRMADP_3_PALESTINIANS-ISRAEL-HAMAS.JPG&hash=0d7271644d5f8fe475246f11c9f36c0918f10c05)
EDIT: I'm leaving on Saturday.... just hope it stays "calm" in the middle til then.
Yup. Pre-emptive move before Syria falls apart. They apparently are trying to apply some lessons learned by the Germans during the Second World War. You know - two fronts and all that.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 03:52:20 PM
.... They apparently are trying to apply some lessons learned by the Germans during the Second World War. You know - two fronts and all that.
Irony?!? 8)
Quote from: Barthheart on November 14, 2012, 03:57:23 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 03:52:20 PM
.... They apparently are trying to apply some lessons learned by the Germans during the Second World War. You know - two fronts and all that.
Irony?!? 8)
Irony is my middle name.
Seems to me that things have already degenerated to a proxy sectarian civil war in Syria.
Alawi's seem to be generally behind Assad, together with Druze, Maronite Christians and other minorities allying themselves with the regime against the potential for Sunni persecution - and since the earlier reported atrocities by the regime - retribution. Unfortunately, there is past history supporting this fear. The first "official" case of modern genocide was - although this is vigorously denied by some Turkish authorities - was of Armenians by the Turks in WW1 (some of which occurred in modern day Syria) - closely followed by the genocide and diaspora of Assyrian Christians of whom many were also subjected to forced conversion to Sunni Islam. In addition, there is evidence to suggest that the Alawi's historically have more in common with Shia Islam, so are more likely to find support from Iran in any sectarian civil war. Ironically, the Assad Regime"S" - since it has been a family business since the current incumbent's father took over Syria - has been said to have encouraged a Sunnification of the Alawi, which obviously has now hit a bit of a road bump - to say the least ::)
Conversely, the Sunni's see support most closely from Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other Sunni dominated states. Sunni's tended to prosper under the Ottoman's to the detriment of other minority and the relative newcomer's to power being the Alawi's has obviously had a social impact on the opportunities available to the Sunni community. We are seeing an increase in foreign fighters - many extreme fundamentalists - notionally part of the "Free Syrian Army" and an increase in FSA atrocities as well. Whilst many Sunni Syrians would like to resolve their civil war pretty much without outside interference, it is hard to do so. Partly this is due to the fragmented political nature of the FSA, also to the organisation and experience that the foreign fighters bring with them. More worryingly for the FSA is that in the event of success is that many foreign fighters are likely to have a fundamentalist agenda and will expect recognition for their sacrifices in the Sunni cause.
So it's a horrible mess for the Syrian's whichever side of the fence you sit on. As time goes on I'd expect the regime to see more support from Iran and Iran's affiliates and for the FSA more support from Turkey and Saudi (- although with a Wahabi/Salafi agenda). In a sense, it's good news for Israel in that Iran becomes increasingly embroiled with countries like Saudi (which again is not exactly enamoured of Israel), so their attention on Israel is diverted somewhat. This is a possibility, so long as the conflict remains relatively local. Syrian antics close to their borders have the capability to inflame neighbouring countries whether my accident or intent, and while antagonising seems to have been met with relative restraint so far...
In the meantime thousands of ordinary people - now on both sides - are caught up in vicious, evil war where they are the principal sufferers. What a tragedy, and when you really think about it - for what good reason? :'( I can only hope that when it finally ends there will be wise heads that will find some way for reconciliation, although I think that will be an awfully difficult thing to achieve. Even in Libya, which was relatively bloodless in comparison to the situation in Syria and did not contain a similar sectarian element has had a hard time post Gadaffi achieving reconciliation. What a tragic mess. :(
For decades we've been speculating that WWIII would begin in the Mideast. Looks like it just may.
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
For decades we've been speculating that WWIII would begin in the Mideast. Looks like it just may.
Could be.
I'm going to start a new thread up in Mil History.
As an aside, the Russians have been quiet for a while. The French have been making more noise in the last few days.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 14, 2012, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
For decades we've been speculating that WWIII would begin in the Mideast. Looks like it just may.
Could be.
I'm going to start a new thread up in Mil History.
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=3584.new#new
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 07:25:55 PM
As an aside, the Russians have been quiet for a while. The French have been making more noise in the last few days.
Didn't the Russians send extra troops to protect one of their bases they have in Syria when this whole civil war thing started there?
^They also sent ships a few months ago. There are "advisors" from many nations on all sides.
As another angle, the Israeli retaliation against Hamas is like throwing gas over the fire.
Don't worry now you've got Egypt saber rattling going on too. Arab Spring is clearly the most peaceful movement e'vah.
I'm trying to figure out what Egypt will really ultimately do. Anyone in a position of power there has to know that if they act out, Israel will pummel them even further into the stone age.
Time will tell us with it's infinite wisdom of what is to come.
My uber educated fly over country armchair geopolitical analysis. Nothing overt, but words, money, and arms. Same as Iran, which has been waging a proxy war with Isreal for decades now through Hamas and Hezbollah.
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
I'm trying to figure out what Egypt will really ultimately do. Anyone in a position of power there has to know that if they act out, Israel will pummel them even further into the stone age.
Yeah, but that starts to worry me. There are only so many places the IDF can be at once.
Unless the Sauds decide to send Israel some help. Now wouldn't that make for an interesting alliance? Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia against Syria, Egypt, and Iran.
Sheesh. The world is getting weirder by the minute.
It's the new WWIII. Like the new Coke. Kinda sorta like the old one but way more fucking weird.
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 09:56:20 PM
It's the new WWIII. Like the new Coke. Kinda sorta like the old one but way more fucking weird.
Ha!
QuoteYeah, but that starts to worry me. There are only so many places the IDF can be at once.
I would not want to be a Egyptian tanker in a M1 running into dug in Merkava's.
An islamofascist tanker would not be thinking the same as you or me. A dug in Merkava may be exactly what they are looking for.
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 10:10:59 PM
islamofascist
You cannot say this anymore. It's against the law or something.
ISLAMOFASCIST
armor forums would simply blow up if that showdown happened.
duh!
everyone knows islamofacists wear ascots on their heads.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 14, 2012, 10:15:20 PM
armor forums would simply blow up if that showdown happened.
Fortunately we'd rather worry about boobs and whether it will be L4D2 or Black Ops II.
ISLAMOFASCISTS probably sport some pretty decent beards too.
Quote from: Gusington on November 14, 2012, 09:08:41 PM
...
As another angle, the Israeli retaliation against Hamas is like throwing gas over the fire.
I don't know Gus... In the week I've been here, a few hundred rockets have been flunge out of the Strip....
You can only poke the bear for so long......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20336811
"Three people have been killed as rockets fired from Gaza struck southern Israel, amid escalating violence."
its like a big game of chess. Really i dont understand the hamas approach, rockets, suicide bombers such a pants strategy. They need to be hitting infrastructure the railways,coms networks, pipelines, bridges stuff that affects money low hanging fruit with little risk. Its like every modern terrorist outfit learned nothing from the french resistance of ww2. Still im sure some big international bankers will be making a profit somehow from the whole affair playing all the factions.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 15, 2012, 04:54:30 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20336811
"Three people have been killed as rockets fired from Gaza struck southern Israel, amid escalating violence."
its like a big game of chess. Really i dont understand the hamas approach, rockets, suicide bombers such a pants strategy. They need to be hitting infrastructure the railways,coms networks, pipelines, bridges stuff that affects money low hanging fruit with little risk. Its like every modern terrorist outfit learned nothing from the french resistance of ww2. Still im sure some big international bankers will be making a profit somehow from the whole affair playing all the factions.
0kult...job opportunity! Hamas needs your leadership.
Aw Okult's anti-semitism came out to play today. How cute!
Maybe he'll charge headlong into those dug in tanks we mentioned on the last page.
We're certainly having fun here.
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
oooo....
First rockets/missiles on Tel-Aviv since the Gulf War.
And here I thought I wouldn't need to shelter in bunkers anymore... :P
are the majority of Iron Dome systems on the border?
Mostly near the cities in the south.
Still, even with it, if they fire enough they will hit enough. :(
Passive defense is always the shittiest kind.
Quote from: Bison on November 15, 2012, 07:34:19 AM
Aw Okult's anti-semitism came out to play today. How cute!
I'm not anti semetic, I'm anti religion. However I did say nothing anti semetic I was aware off. Just say Hamas tactics were pants. What strange thing to say bison.
Pants? That one's new to me. I'm assuming that it mean ineffective, correct?
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 15, 2012, 04:54:30 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20336811
"Three people have been killed as rockets fired from Gaza struck southern Israel, amid escalating violence."
its like a big game of chess. Really i dont understand the hamas approach, rockets, suicide bombers such a pants strategy. They need to be hitting infrastructure the railways,coms networks, pipelines, bridges stuff that affects money low hanging fruit with little risk. Its like every modern terrorist outfit learned nothing from the french resistance of ww2. Still im sure some big international bankers will be making a profit somehow from the whole affair playing all the factions.
Actually, I've been wondering about this as well.
What purpose does it serve to randomly throw up rockets? All you're doing is poking the badger -- a really nasty badger with ten legs and venomous claws.
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe,
Tpek.
Quote from: Martok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
...
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe, Tpek.
+4
Yes stay safe Tpek.
I'm staying about 5 km from here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306201,00.html
Gald to be going home on Sat. :o
Keep yer head down Barth.
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 03:25:48 PM
Keep yer head down Barth.
Don't you know it. Should be interesting sleeping tonight with all the IAF planes roaring around..... :P
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 03:25:48 PM
Keep yer head down Barth.
Tpek, Barth - all you guys. Stay safe.
Quote from: Barthheart on November 15, 2012, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Martok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
...
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe, Tpek.
+4
Yes stay safe Tpek.
I'm staying about 5 km from here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306201,00.html
Gald to be going home on Sat. :o
What are you doing there?
@All Thanks!
Quote from: LongBlade on November 15, 2012, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 03:25:48 PM
Keep yer head down Barth.
Tpek, Barth - all you guys. Stay safe.
and Shlomz :)
+1
...and push them into the sea when rolling in
Of interest, from Rex Brynen (McGill U in Montreal) about 'war crimes' implications
http://grognews.blogspot.com/2012/11/war-crimes-syria-israel-and.html
and all y'all keep your damn heads down!
Shlomz - Tpek - Barth - anyone else over there that hasn't called in yet
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 15, 2012, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: Bison on November 15, 2012, 07:34:19 AM
Aw Okult's anti-semitism came out to play today. How cute!
I'm not anti semetic, I'm anti religion. However I did say nothing anti semetic I was aware off. Just say Hamas tactics were pants. What strange thing to say bison.
I'm anti-maroon and often wonder about the price of tea in China. Stay classy pal.
You guys over there have my prayers. Hope you have safe places to take shelter if need be.
A few days ago I was thinking of the fabled Walls of Jericho. So I went to wiki to look up that ancient first city, the birthplace of civilization. To my horror it is now part of the Palestinian land! How the hell did that happen? It belongs in Israel. If any shells come from that area I hope Israel takes it back. I don't care that that is a fairly inflammatory statement.
Another set of wishes for safety to you guys in Israel.
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:57:38 PM
Pants? That one's new to me. I'm assuming that it mean ineffective, correct?
IIRC we already had this discussion with Geek, Bob, and Co.
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 15, 2012, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Martok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
...
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe, Tpek.
+4
Yes stay safe Tpek.
I'm staying about 5 km from here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306201,00.html
Gald to be going home on Sat. :o
What are you doing there?
@All Thanks!
I'm visiting the Weizmann Institute of Science. We are collaborating on upgrading part of the ATLAS experiment.
Going site seeing today.... up north.....
Quote from: Barthheart on November 16, 2012, 12:25:45 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 15, 2012, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Martok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
...
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe, Tpek.
+4
Yes stay safe Tpek.
I'm staying about 5 km from here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306201,00.html
Gald to be going home on Sat. :o
What are you doing there?
@All Thanks!
I'm visiting the Weizmann Institute of Science. We are collaborating on upgrading part of the ATLAS experiment.
Going site seeing today.... up north.....
Enjoy!
EDIT: Fixed a misplacing of text. :P
I'm starting to hear the rocket alarms in my city.
Luckily I got my tablet to keep me busy when I'm in the safe room.
Quote from: Tpek on November 16, 2012, 05:25:52 AM
I'm starting to hear the rocket alarms in my city.
Luckily I got my tablet to keep me busy when I'm in the safe room.
Any gaming or just reading?
Quote from: Barthheart on November 16, 2012, 12:25:45 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on November 15, 2012, 03:08:31 PM
Quote from: Martok on November 15, 2012, 02:17:52 PM
...
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 15, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 15, 2012, 09:48:35 AM
Quote from: Tpek on November 15, 2012, 09:07:30 AM
We're certainly having fun here.
Prayers for you and your people Tpek.
+2
+3
Stay safe, Tpek.
+4
Yes stay safe Tpek.
I'm staying about 5 km from here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4306201,00.html
Gald to be going home on Sat. :o
What are you doing there?
@All Thanks!
I'm visiting the Weizmann Institute of Science. We are collaborating on upgrading part of the ATLAS experiment.
Going site seeing today.... up north.....
Hopefully your sights don't include any exploding rockets.
^No. But people from my city have been hearing the explosions from T.A :P
Is a gound invasion underway... seeing some intresting tweets ?
QuoteI'm starting to hear the rocket alarms in my city.
Luckily I got my tablet to keep me busy when I'm in the safe room.
perhaps you should be playing some Missile Command or Defcon.
be safe guys!
Missile Command!! Pew-pew-pew!!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.datensklaven.de%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fwp-o-matic%2Fcache%2F06702_missile-command-iphone.gif&hash=2bb673e0bc30b713c17d34946e1db98b4954cbeb)
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 16, 2012, 03:53:13 PM
Missile Command!! Pew-pew-pew!!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.datensklaven.de%2Fwp-content%2Fplugins%2Fwp-o-matic%2Fcache%2F06702_missile-command-iphone.gif&hash=2bb673e0bc30b713c17d34946e1db98b4954cbeb)
With these graphics and gameplay... I'd rather try my luck with real ones :P
the Israeli government has authorized the call up of 75,000 soliders.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 16, 2012, 06:19:27 PM
the Israeli government has authorized the call up of 75,000 soliders.
Odds are good that they're about to roll Gaza.
Heard a blurb on the TV that Egypt is trying to waive them off. Fat luck with that, Egypt. I don't think their Muslim Brotherhood-led government has much pull with Israel these days.
and reports are that they are expecting a 7 week war.
Cast Lead lasted about 3 weeks. it would seem Israel isnt playing around.
typical:
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/486217_466042980105643_2146371119_n.jpg)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 16, 2012, 06:42:06 PM
typical:
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/486217_466042980105643_2146371119_n.jpg)
Maybe he fainted? :p
^He was probably just told the IDF is mobilizing 75,000 troops.
So my boss and I were having a bit of a hypothetical discussion today at work about this whole conflict.
With the reports that a few rockets hit near Jerusalem he was wondering what would happen if The Dome of the Rock was accidentally hit by Hamas. Besides the sweet, sweet irony, this would not end well. The best I could figure is that everyone would blame it on Israel and then it would really hit the fan then. It would not only inflame the locals but give other Muslim nations all the reason they needed to act.
I don't know...I don't see other Muslim nations jumping in so fast. We've seen that happen before and Israel kicked a lot of ass.
TCT what could they really do?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bgAIk2Zlm0g/UKcZC5NlrRI/AAAAAAAACws/JspFL0RDPk0/s800/1353127573456.png)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 12:15:36 AM
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bgAIk2Zlm0g/UKcZC5NlrRI/AAAAAAAACws/JspFL0RDPk0/s800/1353127573456.png)
I shouldn't laugh but that is funny.
we might as well laugh while we can because there wont be much reason to during the next few weeks.
^There hasn't been for the last 11 years.
this is pretty surreal and the fun starts at :48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8kAyqbKwd1o
and another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6kN7SQ1pKX0
You have a beautiful country here Tpek. I spent yesterday up at the ruins in Caesarea, then had dinner in the old port section of Tel Aviv.
All of the people we have met are very friendly. And for the most part seem unconcerned with what's happening only a short distance away. Good on them for not letting terrorism win!!
I leave today around 1500. Might be back in January..... If things have claimed down by then.
Stay safe Tpek.
Hamas is Sunni. Iran just finished a second enrichment plant and is now able to produce Uran up to 20% enriched 3 times faster (I've read today in the printed newspaper)
so a hot proxy war started by Hamas with its shelling, and forcing Israel to react is a good disctration from their plot. A hot war in Gaza and a airstrike at Iran's facilities happening all at the same time may generate to much political fallout.... even for Israel (with Obama at the helm)
Does the Muslim Brotherhood bed with Iran when its against the local Great Satan?
on Iron dome:
its good to be working, but one rocket is 50k$, two get launched, so one one intercept is 100k$, while the shit lobed from Gaza is 1k$ ? or less ... so Israel has to react soon!
i would recommend after the ground operation, to never return a strip of 2 klicks next to the Egyptian border to stop the tunnel activities once and for all.
OR just push all in the Gaza Strip into the Sinai Desert.... fer good..... >:(
@Barth old port section? you mean in Jaffa? there are some pretty good restaurants there.
Anyway, I doubt Hamas will fire towards Jerusalem. Not when they can fire towards Tel Aviv.
Didn't they just land one right outside Jerusalem yesterday?
http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/
Hacker group Anonymous has launched a massive attack named #OpIsrael on almost 700 Israeli websites, protesting against Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza. Israeli media confirmed the group's move.
Think we will see more and more of this sort of thing in this and futre conflicts. least no-one dies.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
least no-one dies.
People have died because of lack of access to timely information. Bringing down web services can cause that lack of access.
Quote from: Staggerwing on November 17, 2012, 10:45:07 AM
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
least no-one dies.
People have died because of lack of access to timely information. Bringing down web services can cause that lack of access.
It also ignores the fact that Hamas started the shooting and only after a prolonged demonstration that they intended to continue did Israel decide to react.
In other words - they're helping the bad guys.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/
Hacker group Anonymous has launched a massive attack named #OpIsrael on almost 700 Israeli websites, protesting against Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza. Israeli media confirmed the group's move.
Think we will see more and more of this sort of thing in this and futre conflicts. least no-one dies.
I guess these idiots dont realize that Mossad plays by a different set of rules.
What do you expect from a group of cyber-terrorists and criminals?
They've backed Wikileaks for a long while now, and their "Glorious Leader Assange".
You know, the man guilty of rape, the friend of various "benevolent despots" throughout the world, and firm supporter of tyranny and oppression.
Either way, right or wrong its a whole new dymamic in conflict (as a whole) not just this one. Where indviduals globally can take direct action in favour of their chosen faction, opposed to just watching whats allowed on the TV. Is it a bad thing who knows, but certainly a diffrent one from "faction A attacks Faction B, world watches from afar" I think the Arab spring showed such an element can help overthrow even the most entrenched dictators. That said bad guys, good guys, spys, armies can use it all to their advantage. It also works in favour of the under developed nations not so reliant on networking. Imho cyberwarfare is now where arial war was at the end of ww1.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/ (http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/)
Hacker group Anonymous has launched a massive attack named #OpIsrael on almost 700 Israeli websites, protesting against Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza. Israeli media confirmed the group's move.
Think we will see more and more of this sort of thing in this and futre conflicts. least no-one dies.
I guess these idiots dont realize that Mossad plays by a different set of rules.
New game HackerSplat.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 17, 2012, 12:23:28 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 17, 2012, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 10:39:14 AM
http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/ (http://rt.com/news/anonymous-gaza-israel-website-938/)
Hacker group Anonymous has launched a massive attack named #OpIsrael on almost 700 Israeli websites, protesting against Operation Pillar of Defense in Gaza. Israeli media confirmed the group's move.
Think we will see more and more of this sort of thing in this and futre conflicts. least no-one dies.
I guess these idiots dont realize that Mossad plays by a different set of rules.
New game HackerSplat.
Heh. As a general rule I suspect that attracting the Mossad's attention in a negative way is unwise.
Probably the first thing that would happen is their electronics will become possessed - a yellow card if you will. But if they continue to support the terrorists...things might get kinetic.
QuoteWhere indviduals globally can take direct action in favour of their chosen faction, opposed to just watching whats allowed on the TV.
this is my point. if someone starts messing with Israels electronic infrastructure it in time of war direct action will be what removes the hackers. Mossad dont play by UN rules.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 12:20:38 PM
Either way, right or wrong its a whole new dymamic in conflict (as a whole) not just this one. Where indviduals globally can take direct action in favour of their chosen faction, opposed to just watching whats allowed on the TV. Is it a bad thing who knows, but certainly a diffrent one from "faction A attacks Faction B, world watches from afar" I think the Arab spring showed such an element can help overthrow even the most entrenched dictators. That said bad guys, good guys, spys, armies can use it all to their advantage. It also works in favour of the under developed nations not so reliant on networking. Imho cyberwarfare is now where arial war was at the end of ww1.
That is certain.
Though it's not just countries, government and armies.
Any sort of conflict these days spills into the internet.
And when it does, it's only a short amount of time before people start resorting to less ethical methods of fighting it.
Hacking these days is just not what it used to be during previous decades.
No more silly little kids just pushing the boundaries, but professional criminals and cyber-terrorists aiming to cripple damage and harm.
Mossad maybe ruthless intelligance outfit but against a foe with no leadership no structure no fixed points no members. So they takeout a bunch of hackers here and there. What's that against botnets 1000s unconnected individuals worldwide who only work as a mass force on the things they decide to indvidualy. Anon is not a thing just a name so you know what your talking about. Mossad agents will have been anon in the past maybe even now, along with every other agency.
every movement has a hub of leadership or a central node of information exchange.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 01:19:12 PM
Mossad maybe ruthless intelligance outfit but against a foe with no leadership no structure no fixed points no members. So they takeout a bunch of hackers here and there. What's that against botnets 1000s unconnected individuals worldwide who only work as a mass force on the things they decide to indvidualy. Anon is not a thing just a name so you know what your talking about. Mossad agents will have been anon in the past maybe even now, along with every other agency.
They don't need to remove a non-existent leadership. They just need to eliminate the few fools helping the terrorists.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 17, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 01:19:12 PM
Mossad maybe ruthless intelligance outfit but against a foe with no leadership no structure no fixed points no members. So they takeout a bunch of hackers here and there. What's that against botnets 1000s unconnected individuals worldwide who only work as a mass force on the things they decide to indvidualy. Anon is not a thing just a name so you know what your talking about. Mossad agents will have been anon in the past maybe even now, along with every other agency.
They don't need to remove a non-existent leadership. They just need to eliminate the few fools helping the terrorists.
You're forgetting these few fools are civilians across the world who don't know any better, and not Hamas bred and salary provided people.
Quote from: Tpek on November 17, 2012, 03:02:14 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on November 17, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 17, 2012, 01:19:12 PM
Mossad maybe ruthless intelligance outfit but against a foe with no leadership no structure no fixed points no members. So they takeout a bunch of hackers here and there. What's that against botnets 1000s unconnected individuals worldwide who only work as a mass force on the things they decide to indvidualy. Anon is not a thing just a name so you know what your talking about. Mossad agents will have been anon in the past maybe even now, along with every other agency.
They don't need to remove a non-existent leadership. They just need to eliminate the few fools helping the terrorists.
You're forgetting these few fools are civilians across the world who don't know any better, and not Hamas bred and salary provided people.
Which is why I'd advocate a yellow card first. I wouldn't go kinectic on them unless they gave good reason. But perhaps a visit from the Ghost of Hackers Past to remind them that they're entering into the big boys' world might curb their enthusiasm a touch.
Tpek, since when has any intelligence agency not engaged civilian targets?
Quote from: Tpek on November 17, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
@Barth old port section? you mean in Jaffa? there are some pretty good restaurants there.
Anyway, I doubt Hamas will fire towards Jerusalem. Not when they can fire towards Tel Aviv.
No, I meant the area in the northern section of the city. There is a massive boardwalk there. Very nice area to walk around.
I also had dinner in Jaffa earlier in the week.
– Shielded under Iron Dome, the Israeli government can take the time it feels its need to plan its response because it is not under the pressure that hundreds of explosions potentially killing hundreds of Israelis would generate. "The best, from our perspective, is that it gives us time," the senior official says. "If we were being hit by this amount of rockets without Iron Dome, we would have to resort to other means" – including a ground invasion, which he still fears may happen. That could kill "thousands" of civilians, he says, as the Israeli military cleared Gaza of missiles and missile factories.
Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/#ixzz2ChFAo452 (http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/#ixzz2ChFAo452)
http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/?iid=op-article-mostpop2 (http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/?iid=op-article-mostpop2)
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on November 19, 2012, 12:59:23 PM
– Shielded under Iron Dome, the Israeli government can take the time it feels its need to plan its response because it is not under the pressure that hundreds of explosions potentially killing hundreds of Israelis would generate. "The best, from our perspective, is that it gives us time," the senior official says. "If we were being hit by this amount of rockets without Iron Dome, we would have to resort to other means" – including a ground invasion, which he still fears may happen. That could kill "thousands" of civilians, he says, as the Israeli military cleared Gaza of missiles and missile factories.
Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/#ixzz2ChFAo452 (http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/#ixzz2ChFAo452)
http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/?iid=op-article-mostpop2 (http://nation.time.com/2012/11/19/iron-dome-a-missile-shield-that-works/?iid=op-article-mostpop2)
Good stuff.
By relieving any political pressure Hamas might try to inflict it gives Israel time and options.
dont think theyre being inactive though.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg22.imageshack.us%2Fimg22%2F9278%2Fga117.jpg&hash=fd38d1e9dc02831fd28cd3ed66d2fb74cc5de5d1)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg28.imageshack.us%2Fimg28%2F2817%2Fga120.jpg&hash=6cd1450a928b4e50071aa0609b0e1b9133856b20)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl1.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2F9yb.U9QcCYP350cY9HZpWg--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0xMDI0O3E9Nzk7dz0xNjI4%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2Fap_webfeeds%2F20c464ff99815420210f6a706700a792.jpg&hash=fe034b08a9e91025cba1b890dc6c89bfe543ef50)
^Great pictures
Watching the coverage on the news I see these reporters going into Gaza and reporting from and around missiles launch sites. Are these people morons? I just imagine Hamas setting up camp in the basement of whatever hotel these western journalist are in because they know that the Israelis would never risk hitting a reporter from CNN, FOX etc. on purpose.
Quote from: TheCommandTent on November 19, 2012, 08:26:58 PM
^Great pictures
Watching the coverage on the news I see these reporters going into Gaza and reporting from and around missiles launch sites. Are these people morons? I just imagine Hamas setting up camp in the basement of whatever hotel these western journalist are in because they know that the Israelis would never risk hitting a reporter from CNN, FOX etc. on purpose.
I'm betting that by now at least the Al Jazera reporters probably know better... They probably film n' scoot like counter-battery pros.
QuoteAre these people morons? I just imagine Hamas setting up camp in the basement of whatever hotel these western journalist are in because they know that the Israelis would never risk hitting a reporter from CNN, FOX etc. on purpose.
thankfully youre wrong this time around.
the IDF is not dicking around this time.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg255.imageshack.us%2Fimg255%2F9099%2Fga121.jpg&hash=d5c82b4078ab35805fff33daf975b115075dc227)
Smoke is seen after an Israeli air strike, witnessed by a ******* journalist, on a floor in a building that also houses media offices in Gaza City November 19, 2012. Israeli missiles blasted a tower block that houses many international media for a second straight day on Monday, targeting a computer shop in the building, witnesses said. *******/Ahmed Jadallah
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg23.imageshack.us%2Fimg23%2F1929%2Fga123.jpg&hash=679efe33c27623bdda3393389f6d34b474526422)
Smoke is seen after an Israeli air strike, witnessed by a ******* journalist, on a building that also houses international media offices in Gaza City November 19, 2012. An Islamic Jihad local commander was killed on Monday in an Israeli air strike on a tower block that houses many international media, a source in the militant group said. *******/Ahmed Jadallah
I so want to know that Wolf got his frikin ass blow up.
I watched last night as Anderson Cooper did almost get blown to bits!
to bad he didnt. hes a douche.
the news feed says there are cease fire talks going on in Egypt.
from the safety of my American home I kind of dont want there to be a cease fire.
Id like to see this issue resolved once and for all.
and this is why I dont want to see a cease fire.
warning GRAPHIC IMAGES
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/multim...a-599d30767ad8
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/multim...b-f8eb99da628b
wheres the news outrage over this?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 12:22:13 PM
and this is why I dont want to see a cease fire.
warning GRAPHIC IMAGES
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/multim...a-599d30767ad8
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/multim...b-f8eb99da628b
wheres the news outrage over this?
The links give "404 Page not found" on the Trust.org site.... ?
both pictures are of 2 morons on a motorcycle dragging a dead body behind it.
supposedly an Israeli collaborator.
Palestinian gunmen ride motorcycles as they drag the body of a man, who was suspected of working for Israel, in Gaza City November 20, 2012. Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA - Tags: CIVIL UNREST POLITICS)
Credit: REUTERS
Yeah, that should be front page news everywhere. >:(
QuoteI watched last night as Anderson Cooper did almost get blown to bits!
No doubt he's been blown by some guy nicknamed "Bits".
Quote from: Barthheart on November 20, 2012, 12:37:30 PM
Yeah, that should be front page news everywhere. >:(
Shameful conduct.
Yet another reason I have little sympathy for them. When they start behaving like human beings then I'll be interested to hearing their story.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 12:33:18 PM
Palestinian gunmen ride motorcycles as they drag the body of a man, who was suspected of working for Israel, in Gaza City November 20, 2012. Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA - Tags: CIVIL UNREST POLITICS)
Credit: REUTERS
THAT was the photo that got bumped over at WG for being too graphic??!! WTF??!!
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 20, 2012, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 12:33:18 PM
Palestinian gunmen ride motorcycles as they drag the body of a man, who was suspected of working for Israel, in Gaza City November 20, 2012. Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA - Tags: CIVIL UNREST POLITICS)
Credit: REUTERS
THAT was the photo that got bumped over at WG for being too graphic??!! WTF??!!
Different folks have different tolerances for things like this. I don't have a problem with it, but I can understand why someone might not want it hosted - or even to see it in order to make that choice.
You know btw that Hamas is forcibly keeping foreigners (especially reporters and dignitaries) in the Gaza strip, and using them as human shields?
These people haven't even the slightest amount of shame.
Quote from: Tpek on November 20, 2012, 01:14:16 PM
You know btw that Hamas is forcibly keeping foreigners (especially reporters and dignitaries) in the Gaza strip, and using them as human shields?
These people haven't even the slightest amount of shame.
No, but I'm not surprised. Any group that builds a military HQ underneath a hospital can pretty much be relied upon to sink to any low.
in German news a reporter at the border just said: Hamas opt for a cease fire simply because they have no more rockets to launch left (...or at least no more of longer range)
an EMP strike on Gaza would be good before the ground war, so no more Pallywood Propaganda when camcorder circuits got melted ;D
I saw those pi there on CNN and they made me physically ill.
For the record, I lime Anderson Cooper. He's not as douchey as some other anchors and his coming out took balls [pun intended]
no Cent, that wasnt the photo that got bumped.
theres were the pics:
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/486217_466042980105643_2146371119_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/14203_388360261239749_733633955_n.jpg)
Ah.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 12:33:18 PM
Palestinian gunmen ride motorcycles as they drag the body of a man, who was suspected of working for Israel, in Gaza City November 20, 2012. Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA - Tags: CIVIL UNREST POLITICS)
Credit: REUTERS
Foxnews is running the image on its front page.
CNN? Well, take a guess.Update; I found a small link to a video below their left hand image of the conflict as part of their summary. Their main story is still some kind of promised "calming" on the part of Hamas - which won't come as a surprise - hasn't manifested itself.
if hamas calms down its because theyre running low on rockets.
I kinda want to see what happens when they hit the dome of the rock.
Honestly, I don't get the mentality. If I had an enemy who promised to leave me alone if I left them alone; and if that enemy is a well trained fighter, well armed with a proven track record to cause me pain and blood loss- I'd effing well leave them the hell alone!
I guess that's the difference between me and a mentally ill child.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
if hamas calms down its because theyre running low on rockets.
Thats what I am thinking. Then once they smuggle in another arsenal they will start firing again.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 02:43:01 PM
I kinda want to see what happens when they hit the dome of the rock.
Yeah that would be interesting.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 02:42:30 PM
if hamas calms down its because theyre running low on rockets.
I thought I read/heard a report that implied this might be the case. All the more reason not to give them a cease fire. Why quit shooting just because your enemy is out of ammo?
because its gentlemanly and sporting ;D
Quote from: Centurion40 on November 20, 2012, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 12:33:18 PM
Palestinian gunmen ride motorcycles as they drag the body of a man, who was suspected of working for Israel, in Gaza City November 20, 2012. Palestinian gunmen shot dead six alleged collaborators in the Gaza Strip who "were caught red-handed", according to a security source quoted by the Hamas Aqsa radio on Tuesday. REUTERS/Mohammed Salem (GAZA - Tags: CIVIL UNREST POLITICS)
Credit: REUTERS
THAT was the photo that got bumped over at WG for being too graphic??!! WTF??!!
I actually think it is too graphic to be on main pages. That is the sort of image that requires heavy explaining for a child. But I have a very low tolerance of images of actual violence.
On that note, Mayim Bialik had an interesting blog post about trying to explain the situation in Israel to children. Worth a read. It is, naturally, directly from an Israeli/Hebrew perspective, although the American view and response is also discussed.
for what its worth SoM, theyve been running the video on the news..
and really.... a wargamer with a lot tolerance for violence.....
I was watching the news with my older daughter and had a hard enough time just trying to explain Israel to her. I would not let her see the motorcycle clips.
Quote from: 0kult13 on November 21, 2012, 02:11:10 AM
because its gentlemanly and sporting ;D
Not really. Just catching up on the news this morning.
Care to guess how many missiles Hamas fired blindly into Israel hoping to hit anything - including civilians?
This year - just a guess. Got a number in mind? I'd like to hear it.
750 - 800 missiles fired.
This. Year.
There is nothing sporting about deliberately trying to kill civilians. Hamas needs to be crushed.
Bus explodes in Tel Aviv.... :(
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/gaza-shakes-israelis-killed-clinton-seeks-truce-001606371.html
There were about 200 rockets fired from Gaza in my short 1 week trip!
^Yeah cause thats gonna help the talks of a truce. I think in some ways Hamas wants a Israel to launch a ground war into the strip in order to trot out more images and videos of civilians being harmed. It seems they are are counting on international condemnation of Israel and possibly action from other Arab states.
Quote from: TheCommandTent on November 21, 2012, 09:00:47 AM
^Yeah cause thats gonna help the talks of a truce. I think in some ways Hamas wants a Israel to launch a ground war into the strip in order to trot out more images and videos of civilians being harmed. It seems they are are counting on international condemnation of Israel and possibly action from other Arab states.
Which is a huge flaw in their logic... Israel dosn't care what the rest of the world thinks (and shouldn't because they are just defending themsleves) and there are no Arab states nearby that are anywhere near able to take on Israel... Syria is a bit busy right now, Jordan is friendly, Egypt does have the power... nobody else cares that much. Iran can jump up and down but are pretty impotent for now....
Quote from: Barthheart on November 21, 2012, 09:07:12 AM
Quote from: TheCommandTent on November 21, 2012, 09:00:47 AM
^Yeah cause thats gonna help the talks of a truce. I think in some ways Hamas wants a Israel to launch a ground war into the strip in order to trot out more images and videos of civilians being harmed. It seems they are are counting on international condemnation of Israel and possibly action from other Arab states.
Which is a huge flaw in their logic... Israel dosn't care what the rest of the world thinks (and shouldn't because they are just defending themsleves) and there are no Arab states nearby that are anywhere near able to take on Israel... Syria is a bit busy right now, Jordan is friendly, Egypt does have the power... nobody else cares that much. Iran can jump up and down but are pretty impotent for now....
I agree but Hamas has long won the propaganda war in the world media and they believe it will work again.
Quote from: Gusington on November 21, 2012, 07:50:10 AM
I was watching the news with my older daughter and had a hard enough time just trying to explain Israel to her. I would not let her see the motorcycle clips.
You should really check out Mayim's blog... I think it is called Raising Kvell.
EDIT: Here it is: http://www.kveller.com/mayim-bialik/how-to-talk-to-your-kids-about-israel/
GDS, yeah, I am a Wargamer and a medievalist with a lack of tolerance for violent images. Go figure. I can read about it better than see it, but photos really upset me.
Mayim Bialyk of Blossom?
Looks like all sides are saying some sort of cease-fire agreement has been achieved.
QuoteAfter a deadly eight-day conflict, Israel and Hamas militants agreed to a ceasefire effective Wednesday evening, the Egyptian foreign minister announced at a press conference.
Mohammed Kamel Amr, the foreign minister, made the announcement in Cairo and was flanked by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
"Egypt is assuming the responsibility and leadership that has long made this country a cornerstone of international peace," Clinton said.
The cease-fire agreement was later confirmed by Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
President Obama called Netanyahu and commended the decision. Obama also reiterated his commitment to Israel's security.
Earlier Wednesday, A bomb exploded aboard an Israeli bus near the nation's military headquarters in Tel Aviv, wounding 27 people and at the time delivering a major blow to diplomatic efforts to forge a truce.
The deal is to end a week of fighting that has killed more than 140 Palestinians and five Israelis.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/21/clinton-calls-tel-aviv-bus-bombing-terrorist-attack-as-truce-deal-between/#ixzz2CslvCgNR
Quote from: Gusington on November 21, 2012, 11:55:10 AM
Mayim Bialyk of Blossom?
No, Mayim Bialyk of Big Bang Theory... get with the times, man!
Is she hot now?
She's divorced so maybe she's available?
FWIW:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxfinity.comcast.net%2Fblogs%2Ftv%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F08%2Fmayim-bialik.jpg&hash=3fa0b0817e919332b938acfa4d031f76216d37b5)
Wow... We managed to turn a thread on Middle Eastern violence into a "check out the chick" thread. That may be a new record/low for us. I'm surprised it was not using IDF chick pictures, however.
Egypt's role in the cease fire is highly interesting.
The cease fire was based of pressure from the US on Israel (also there is a election soon, bribing with more military aid worked too) and from Egypt government on Hamas (their militant brethrens behind the border) because the week Egyptian president needs the successes to 'stand large in the Arab world and on the world politics stage' and to distract from heavy in-coutry problems.
we talk again after the election in Israel, and count a casual rocket every few days here and there in the meantime.
PS: SoM how could you stand the pictures of A.F.Fowler ... they are violent in a GDS-Starfury-thread kind of way ;)
OK so Mayim Bialyk is officially not hot. The glasses are kinda cool though.
Quote from: Gusington on November 22, 2012, 09:00:02 AM
OK so Mayim Bialyk is officially not hot. The glasses are kinda cool though.
She does have a doctorate in sciences, and she's a relative of our national poet Chayim Nachman Bialik. :P
Quote from: Tpek on November 22, 2012, 10:54:22 AM
Quote from: Gusington on November 22, 2012, 09:00:02 AM
OK so Mayim Bialyk is officially not hot. The glasses are kinda cool though.
She does have a doctorate in sciences, and she's a relative of our national poet Chayim Nachman Bialik. :P
She's also one of those strange "Attachement Parenting" advocates.... :P
Quote from: MikeGER on November 22, 2012, 02:30:00 AM
The cease fire was based of pressure from the US on Israel (also there is a election soon, bribing with more military aid worked too) and from Egypt government on Hamas (their militant brethrens behind the border) because the week Egyptian president needs the successes to 'stand large in the Arab world and on the world politics stage' and to distract from heavy in-coutry problems.
One of the talking heads last night suggested that Netanyahu is agreeing to a cease fire now at the cost of his domestic political capital in order save his political capital with the US so it can be used on the bigger issue of Iran.
Wow... That is playing the "long game" politically.
what other game can Israel realisticly play?
Don't they also have an election coming up the beginning of next year in Israel?
thats the point.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 22, 2012, 03:48:26 PM
thats the point.
Yessir. Iran also has "elections." So the force is strong here.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on November 22, 2012, 12:33:06 PM
Wow... That is playing the "long game" politically.
Well I was just reading that Israel used their just-concluded -- skirmish? -- with Hamas as a test run for their missile defense system in preparation for conflict with Iran. So that does fit.
Quote from: Martok on November 23, 2012, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on November 22, 2012, 12:33:06 PM
Wow... That is playing the "long game" politically.
Well I was just reading that Israel used their just-concluded -- skirmish? -- with Hamas as a test run for their missile defense system in preparation for conflict with Iran. So that does fit.
I wonder how that will play in the Arab press: Iranian missiles being blown out of the sky and falling into Arab lands.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/11/22/2499220/why-there-was-war-in-gaza.html
QuoteWhy there was war in Gaza
by CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER NOV. 22, 2012
Why was there an Israel-Gaza war in the first place? Resistance to the occupation, say Hamas and many in the international media.
What occupation? Seven years ago, in front of the world, Israel pulled out of Gaza. It dismantled every settlement, withdrew every soldier, evacuated every Jew, leaving nothing and no one behind. Except for the greenhouses in which the settlers had grown fruit and flowers for export. These were left intact to help Gaza's economy – only to be trashed when the Palestinians took over.
Israel then declared its border with Gaza to be an international frontier, meaning that it renounced any claim to the territory and considered it an independent entity. In effect, Israel had created the first Palestinian state ever, something never granted by fellow Muslims – neither the Ottoman Turks nor the Egyptians who brutally occupied Gaza for two decades before being driven out by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.
Israel wanted nothing more than to live in peace with this independent Palestinian entity. After all, the world had incessantly demanded that Israel give up land for peace.
It gave the land. It got no peace.
The Gaza Palestinians did not reciprocate. They voted in Hamas, who then took over in a military putsch and turned their newly freed Palestine into an armed camp from which to war against Israel. It has been war ever since.
Interrupted by the occasional truce, to be sure. But for Hamas a truce – hudna – is simply a tactic for building strength for the next round. It is never meant to be enduring, never meant to offer peace.
But why, given that there is no occupation of Gaza anymore? Because Hamas considers all of Israel occupied, illegitimate, a cancer, a crime against humanity, to quote the leaders of Iran, Hamas' chief patron and arms supplier. Hamas' objective, openly declared, is to "liberate" – i.e. destroy – Tel Aviv and the rest of pre-1967 Israel. Indeed, it is Hamas' raison d'être.
Hamas first killed Jews with campaigns of suicide bombings. After Israel built a nearly impenetrable fence, it went to rockets fired indiscriminately at civilians in populated areas.
What did Hamas hope to gain from this latest round of fighting, which it started with a barrage of about 150 rockets into Israel? To formally translate Hamas' recent strategic gains into a new, more favorable status quo with Israel. It works like this:
Hamas' new strength comes from two sources. First, its new rocketry, especially the Fajr-5, smuggled in from Iran, that can now reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, putting 50 percent of Israel's population under its guns.
Second, Hamas has gained strategic strength from changes in the regional environment. It has acquired the patronage and protection of important Middle Eastern states as a result of the Arab Spring and the Islamist reversal in Turkey.
For 60 years, non-Arab Turkey had been a reliable ally of Israel. The vicious turnaround instituted by its Islamist prime minister, Recep Erdogan, reached its apogee on Monday when he called Israel a terrorist state.
Egypt is now run by Hamas' own mother organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is simply the Palestinian wing. And the emir of Qatar recently visited Gaza, leaving behind a promise of a cool $400 million.
Hamas' objective was to guarantee no further attacks on its leaders or on its weaponry, launch sites and other terror and rocket infrastructure. And the lifting of Israel's military blockade, which would allow a flood of new and even more deadly weapons. In other words, immunity and inviolability during which time Hamas could build unmolested its arsenal of missiles – until it is ready to restart the war on more favorable terms.
Yet another hudna, this one brokered and guaranteed by Egypt and Turkey, regional powers Israel has to be careful not to offend. A respite for rebuilding, until Hamas' Gaza becomes Hezbollah South, counterpart to the terror group to Israel's north, with 50,000 Iranian- and Syrian-supplied rockets that effectively deter any Israeli pre-emptive attack.
With the declaration of a cease-fire on Nov. 21, Israel seems to have successfully resisted these demands, although there may be some cosmetic changes to the embargo. Which means that in any future fighting, Israel will retain the upper hand.
Israel has once again succeeded in defending itself. But, yet again, only until the next round, which, as the night follows the day, will come. Hamas will see to that.
Washington Post Writers Group
Nice find, Brant.
I really appreciate the irony of Hamas smashing the greenhouses left to help them economically.
And yet, somehow the European press will still find sympathy for them. Too bad ComradeP isn't here to help us understand why.
Things are getting interesting over there.
QuoteOpponents and supporters of Mohammed Morsi clashed across Egypt on Friday, the day after the president granted himself sweeping new powers that critics fear can allow him to be a virtual dictator. At least 15 were reported injured.
In a sign of deepening polarization, state TV reported that protesters burned offices of the political arm of Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood group on several cities on the Suez Canal east of Cairo and in the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria, while Islamists engaged with fistfights with Morsi opponents in southern Egypt.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/23/opponents-egypt-islamic-president-clash-with-backers-over-new-powers/
Morsi suddenly seems as though he's more interested in the billion bucks the US sends his way than he is with jihad. His people, however, seem to have other ideas.
Gotta say, I didn't see that coming.
^Just read about Egypt a few minutes ago.
I love the story about the greenhouses.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 23, 2012, 10:44:13 AM
Things are getting interesting over there.
QuoteOpponents and supporters of Mohammed Morsi clashed across Egypt on Friday, the day after the president granted himself sweeping new powers that critics fear can allow him to be a virtual dictator. At least 15 were reported injured.
In a sign of deepening polarization, state TV reported that protesters burned offices of the political arm of Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood group on several cities on the Suez Canal east of Cairo and in the Mediterranean port city of Alexandria, while Islamists engaged with fistfights with Morsi opponents in southern Egypt.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/23/opponents-egypt-islamic-president-clash-with-backers-over-new-powers/
Morsi suddenly seems as though he's more interested in the billion bucks the US sends his way than he is with jihad. His people, however, seem to have other ideas.
Gotta say, I didn't see that coming.
Democracy is one hell of a drug!
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Iron Dome out of bullets?
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlog/20121124.aspx
This is a real concern when planning a campaign. If you run out of ammo, your artillery can't give support.
This was a real concern off of North Cape in the Cold War.
When the Russian Backfire bombers would launch their missiles out from hundreds of miles, using Phoenix and Terrier missiles, the USN could hold off the attack. However, if the Sovs did it for three or more days, then we'd be out of defensive missiles, and they'd still be working from their land bases, and supposedly, be able to get unlimited missiles.
Interesting. They had enough to hold off all the missiles in Gaza and prove it worked. But not more. Hmmm.
My guess is that they will restock to levels which anticipate any future conflict(s).
Ill take that news with a grain of salt. if I were the IDF I would let it slip that Im almost out or out of missiles just to see in hamas tries to beak the cease fire.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 24, 2012, 11:38:21 AM
Ill take that news with a grain of salt. if I were the IDF I would let it slip that Im almost out or out of missiles just to see in hamas tries to beak the cease fire.
+1
Quote from: Windigo on November 23, 2012, 04:53:01 PM
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I'm not sure if the artist is trying to be highly ironic in characterizing Israel as a
Roman legionnaire.
I took issue with the armor as well but whatever... not everyone is a historically aware grog.
Quote from: Gusington on November 22, 2012, 09:00:02 AM
OK so Mayim Bialyk is officially not hot. The glasses are kinda cool though.
She's back on the market, buddy.
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/22/mayim-bialik-husband-to-divorce-after-9-years/
meh
^agreed
any chick that has a mustache is super meh with a side of blah and a helping of eww.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 25, 2012, 12:44:57 PM
any chick that has a mustache is super meh with a side of blah and a helping of eww.
i'll put up with a teeny bit of facial hair.... but not on the mamarries TYVM!
:o
I know...I have never seen hairy female breasts...thank God.
Double post.
Quote from: Gusington on November 26, 2012, 10:33:24 AM
Double post.
why not, you usually two 2 of em close together so I find your double post .... appropriate
I give Mayim points for being herself and wearing the nose she came with.
Besides we all know why Italian guys wear mustaches.... To look like Mama.
I am shallow when it comes to pretty girls but a photo is an artifice... an artifact.
Even the one that Star took when he thought his mom was sleeping.
Id recommend not trying to piss me off in every post longdan.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2012, 12:52:22 PM
Id recommend not trying to piss me off in every post longdan.
I thought he was just flirting.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2012, 12:52:22 PM
Id recommend not trying to piss me off in every post longdan.
Everything pisses you off Star.... you need to date a massage chick!
no, just Mondays and geriatric Canadistanians. ;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 26, 2012, 04:06:46 PM
no, just Mondays and geriatric Canadistanians. ;)
Whatever turns you on - but that really is TMI.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 24, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
I took issue with the armor as well but whatever... not everyone is a historically aware grog.
Some argue Jews did serve as legionaries. I'm not altogether surprised as the Empire was around for a pretty long time. Aside from the obvious issues with Jewish-Roman relations, it's not as odd as it might seem.
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/shofar/v024/24.3schoenfeld.pdf
Huh, that was an interesting read. Thanks for the link Boggit.
When Aurelian fought with Zenobia, queen of Palmyra, it turned out that the troops who best handled her catphracts were Palestinians. They weilded a large club and apparently got in among the heavily armed catphracts (who were engaged or recovering from beating up on the Roman cavalry) and using the club to smash the enemy. (Much like the Swiss used hammers on the heavily armored knights.)
It was difficult to penetrate the armor of the catphracts, but their lack of light infantry support, allowed the Palestinians to rout the elite unit.
an interesting twist as I hadnt heard of anything blowing up in Sudan.
Quotehttp://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12...#ixzz2EP0Gt5lF
How close did Israel just come to its own Cuban missile crisis?
By Paul Alster
Published December 07, 2012
FoxNews.com
Hundreds of Iranian-made, long-range missiles already smuggled into Gaza provided a secret sense of urgency behind Israel's recent campaign against Hamas, and the the Jewish state acted with the Obama administration's full knowledge, intelligence experts told FoxNews.com.
Jonathan Schantzer, a former counter-terrorism analyst at the U.S. Department of the Treasury, said the real agenda behind Israel's assault last month on Hamas' munitions stockpiles and smuggling tunnels was not simply to end the daily barrage of relatively primitive rockets that have become part of daily life in Israel. The real mission was to eliminate as many as 100 Iranian-built Fajr5 missiles - with the power to reach Tel Aviv - that had been sneaked into Gaza through Egypt. The Obama administration knew in advance of the operation and agreed that the missiles, built in a Sudanese factory, had to be neutralized to protect millions of Israeli citizens who were now within range of the deadly Iranian weapons, according to Schantzer.
"The U.S. was fully aware of what was going to come in Gaza," Schantzer, now vice president of research at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, told FoxNews.com. "They said nothing for the first few days of the operation; there was dead silence from [Obama]."
Israel essentially achieved its main aims within the first few days, said Schantzer, noting that Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the U.S., said as much when he remarked on Day Three of the campaign: "We have run out of good targets."
Rocket attacks from Gaza were commonplace in Israel prior to the campaign, dubbed "Operation Pillar of Defense," with at least 750 projectiles falling on the area close to the border since January. The attacks were ratcheted up in early November, which seemed to prompt Israel's move and the deployment of its vaunted "Iron Dome" defense system. But behind the scenes, the Israel Defense Force (IDF) had a more pressing need to launch their intense bombardment on Hamas' weapons stores.
Israel's elimination of senior Hamas figure Ahmad Jabari as he drove in broad daylight in Gaza also fits into Schantzer's narrative.
"Ahmad Jabari, along with another major Hamas figure, Mahmoud al Mabhouhk, [who was assassinated in Dubai in 2010], was a key part of the procurement network for the Fajr missiles and there is little doubt that Israel was keen to take out the man responsible," Schantzer explained.
Schantzer contends that the operation actually began three weeks earlier, when, on Oct. 23, the Iranian-owned Yarmouk armaments factory in Sudan - believed to be the assembly plant for the Fajr5 missiles that have a range of up to 45 miles - was devastated by air strikes for which the Sudanese government holds Israel responsible. Israel, and for that matter the U.S., both deny any knowledge of the attack.
Sudanese Information Minister Ahmad Bilal Osman, told Al Jazeera the day after the attack, "Israel has accused Sudan of sending arms to Hamas. These allegations are not correct. The factory manufactures ordinary, legal weapons."
When asked how Sudan would respond to the incident, Osman answered, "We definitely won't attack Israel itself...but we have a right to tackle the interests of Israel wherever they are from now on."
It may not have been coincidental that the destruction of the Sudanese factory occurred at exactly the same time that a joint Israeli/U.S. military exercise, 'Austere Challenge', involving some 3,500 U.S. troops, was taking place in Israel. Some military analysts have suggested that the exercises and the Gaza operation were part of a dry run for a potential future incursion into Iran.
The suggestion of American knowledge and approval of the alleged Israeli attack in Sudan and the subsequent offensive in Gaza, undermines the theory that Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu were not on speaking terms after the elections, in which Netanyahu expressed support for Mitt Romney. The grave threat posed by the Fajr5 rockets may have been enough for both leaders to agree that something had to be done – and fast.
"The fact of the matter is that there was a significant upsurge in rocket fire from Gaza in the weeks leading up to the operation," an Israeli administration source told FoxNews.com. "Once the need to respond was there, it made sense to take the opportunity to act against the most dangerous weapons. Those (the Fajr rockets) were the first targets. There was a need to minimize their ability to target major population centers in Israel."
The apparent coordination between Israel and the U.S. raises questions about the role of Egypt, which was credited with helping broker a cease fire between Israel and Hamas. The missiles were almost certainly smuggled into Gaza from Egypt, with the likely knowledge of President Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization of Hamas.
"There's little doubt that Iranian-built rockets came from Sudan through Egypt, and that Egypt's security forces weren't interested in intercepting the missiles," Eric Trager, of the Washington Institute, an expert on Egyptian affairs, told FoxNews.com. "Morsi was more interested in furthering his own internal agenda than worrying about foreign policy issues at that time."
Had Israel not acted when it did to destroy Hamas' new and more lethal stockpile of weapons, the situation could have escalated, drawing other parties into a wider Middle East war.
"I think that Washington and the international media have been so lazy in their coverage of this conflict in terms of identifying what actually happened," Schantzer said. "Both the Israeli intelligence community and Israeli officials referred to the presence of Fajr5 missiles in the hands of Hamas as 'game changing rockets,' a change that very nearly produced Israel's own Cuban missile crisis."
^Whoa. Just saw that more Iranian ships are docking in Sudan right now too.
I had not heard about the airstrike on the weapons factory in Sudan. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting that.
In a show of sincerity in support of peace a guy in Gaza is now marketing a perfume named after the rockets launched at Israel.
Quote...residents of Gaza can now buy a fragrance inspired by the rockets used in Hamas' recent conflict with Israel.
Gaza company Stay Stylish is behind the perfume, called M75.
"We have a marketing slogan which is 'Whoever loves victory, happiness and dignity, loves the M75 perfume,'" the company's marketing director, who wished to be identified only as Shadi, told CNN at the Stay Stylish store in Gaza City's Rimal neighborhood.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/12/world/meast/gaza-rocket-perfume-m75/index.html
That's one catchy slogan I tells ya. Has a ring to it.
Sure to catch on. Sales will skyrocket.
Stay Stylish Gaza.
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Quote from: Longdan on December 12, 2012, 08:07:00 PM
Sure to catch on. Sales will skyrocket.
A perfume destined to be used by beautiful bombshells.