I'm excited about this. Western Civilization Software does good work.
http://matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Heroes;.Awakening.the.Bear! (http://matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Heroes;.Awakening.the.Bear!)
Wow...it looks great...truly like a modern wargame. I like the new angle that some games are taking by keeping hexes and chits and also adding sexy new graphics options for n00bs. And I love the Eastern Front. Thanks for posting...looking forward to see how it plays. I also like the June 21st release date :)
Huge news. Thanks, Bis!
This will be a great game.
Wow... those screenshots look really interesting!
But I won't lie, I'm disappointed that WCS shifted from Napoleonic and ACW to the overstuffed WWII era.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 23, 2012, 12:35:08 PM
Wow... those screenshots look really interesting!
But I won't lie, I'm disappointed that WCS shifted from Napoleonic and ACW to the overstuffed WWII era.
They gotta eat.
Overstuffed?
First, the only thing around here that's overstuffed is me.
Second, who doesn't need another great WWII game?
Me, for one. ;)
I just love Napoleonic. Imagine a Cossack's style game with the engine in those screens. That would be magnificent.
But it does look like they are doing something new with the genre, so that is good.
It's also set on the Eastern Front, which is more overlooked as far as WWII goes here in the US.
Awww man this looks awesome and when I read it's turnbased or igougo I was so thrilled. I'm going to keep this on my radar for sure.
Quote from: Gusington on February 23, 2012, 01:51:17 PM
It's also set on the Eastern Front, which is more overlooked as far as WWII goes here in the US.
You know, we say that, but it seem like the last five wargame releases were for Eastern Front. :P
But it does still look cool. I like the 3D aspect. It reminds me of a game released a while back that I forget the name... big satellite map, semi-3D chits... anyone remember that?
The boardgame series is pretty neat.
I've got the second module, the Kursk one and the expansion for it (the Poland invasion one).
I was surprised that it will be in 3d! A pleasant surprise actually.
Also since board games are known to have so few scenarios, they have added a lot more scenarios in the game. And also a scenario maker!
I have the board game and really love it. The game looks cool but I'll miss pushing the units around the board.
Quote from: Tpek on February 23, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
The boardgame series is pretty neat.
I've got the second module, the Kursk one and the expansion for it (the Poland invasion one).
How is the Polish expansion? I've eyed it in stores a few times but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Definitely excited to see how this turns out. The board games are great, and it sounds like they have the rights to the entire series and are adding some new content as well.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 23, 2012, 10:29:08 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 23, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
The boardgame series is pretty neat.
I've got the second module, the Kursk one and the expansion for it (the Poland invasion one).
How is the Polish expansion? I've eyed it in stores a few times but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Definitely excited to see how this turns out. The board games are great, and it sounds like they have the rights to the entire series and are adding some new content as well.
Haven't had a chance to try the expansion out yet, despite owning it for so long :(
Quote from: Tpek on February 24, 2012, 07:27:19 AM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 23, 2012, 10:29:08 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 23, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
The boardgame series is pretty neat.
I've got the second module, the Kursk one and the expansion for it (the Poland invasion one).
How is the Polish expansion? I've eyed it in stores a few times but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Definitely excited to see how this turns out. The board games are great, and it sounds like they have the rights to the entire series and are adding some new content as well.
Haven't had a chance to try the expansion out yet, despite owning it for so long :(
I know the feeling. So many games...
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 24, 2012, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 24, 2012, 07:27:19 AM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 23, 2012, 10:29:08 PM
Quote from: Tpek on February 23, 2012, 05:04:40 PM
The boardgame series is pretty neat.
I've got the second module, the Kursk one and the expansion for it (the Poland invasion one).
How is the Polish expansion? I've eyed it in stores a few times but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Definitely excited to see how this turns out. The board games are great, and it sounds like they have the rights to the entire series and are adding some new content as well.
Haven't had a chance to try the expansion out yet, despite owning it for so long :(
I know the feeling. So many games...
More like not enough time and people to play them with :P
I will buy it on release-day ! (cant comment, bound by NDA ;-) ) see Matrix Games forum for your questions, and updates on features :)
Quote from: MikeGER on February 25, 2012, 05:44:24 AM
I will buy it on release-day ! (cant comment, bound by NDA ;-) ) see Matrix Games forum for your questions, and updates on features :)
Prost!
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 23, 2012, 12:35:08 PM
But I won't lie, I'm disappointed that WCS shifted from Napoleonic and ACW to the overstuffed WWII era.
Don't worry, they are shifting back to ACW now that CoH is almost out the door. Brother Against Brother is shaping up nicely and should be a valuable addition to the ACW grog's collection. We don't have the final graphics yet, so it's pretty fugly right now, but that's coming.
Wait, this CoH game is nearly released?! Wow... that is new for Matrix. Usually it is 1-5 months/years after the game has been announced... ;)
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 28, 2012, 01:32:12 PM
Wait, this CoH game is nearly released?! Wow... that is new for Matrix. Usually it is 1-5 months/years after the game has been announced... ;)
When is it supposed to come out anyway?
Towards the end of March..... they hope.....
The release date was announced by Erik. 8 May
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3090969&mpage=1�
Quote from: Bison on May 05, 2012, 02:08:01 PM
The release date was announced by Erik. 8 March.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3090969&mpage=1�
May 8th.
heh, yeah that's what I meant.
Yeah, I'm really eagerly waiting for Tuesday to come :)
i got news on the release date!
May 8th, that makes it a tuesday!
I'm very much looking forward to this, and intend to buy early, since (a) I trust that patches will be forthcoming if patches are needed and (b) don't expect a sale within 12 months of release.
Who is interested in setting up some multi-player matches? Please post if you are a definite yes, because I am.
Since this and Warlock releases on the same day, I'm waiting for impressions on both before deciding which to get this week,
Put me down as a guaranteed customer. Can't wait.
Quote from: Keunert on May 06, 2012, 02:13:49 AM
i got news on the release date!
May 8th, that makes it a tuesday!
My birthday! Yeah!
Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 06, 2012, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Keunert on May 06, 2012, 02:13:49 AM
i got news on the release date!
May 8th, that makes it a tuesday!
My birthday! Yeah!
Are you implying we should purchase it for you as a B-Day present? :P
If anyone is looking for an easy opponent to roll over, vote me in, I'm still getting accustomed to the action-enemy action turn rate. I've been playing too much Panzer Corps lately.
I love how super tactical it is, I'm sure you guys will love it :)
Has this game shipped yet?
Only one more day! :)
Quote from: DV8 on May 07, 2012, 01:23:38 PM
Has this game shipped yet?
You should be able to get a digital download direct from the publisher - probably digital and disk if you want to pay extra.
I pre-ordered from the CoH site so I'm assuming I will get a disc copy.
What is pre-ordering anyways? Is that like pre-boarding a airliner. Both are physically impossible.
Quote from: DV8 on May 07, 2012, 02:31:07 PM
I pre-ordered from the CoH site so I'm assuming I will get a disc copy.
What is pre-ordering anyways? Is that like pre-boarding a airliner. Both are physically impossible.
It means they'll send you the game as soon as it's released. Your card won't get charged until the product is shipped.
In the case of a download it can happen in a couple of ways. Some games pre-install the game on your hard drive and then the game magically unlocks on release day. In other cases the installation can be accessed as soon as the time is reached, or it may auto-download in some cases.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 07, 2012, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: DV8 on May 07, 2012, 02:31:07 PM
I pre-ordered from the CoH site so I'm assuming I will get a disc copy.
What is pre-ordering anyways? Is that like pre-boarding a airliner. Both are physically impossible.
It means they'll send you the game as soon as it's released. Your card won't get charged until the product is shipped.
In the case of a download it can happen in a couple of ways. Some games pre-install the game on your hard drive and then the game magically unlocks on release day. In other cases the installation can be accessed as soon as the time is reached, or it may auto-download in some cases.
I was just making a funny. Got it ;)
Try the veal.
D'oh!
todays the big day then - will wait for some feedback from you guys - theres an awful lot of games vying for my cards attention in May - need to be a bit more selective than 'gimme em all'!
available for download now
I got this virtually sight unseen on the strength of the AAR's and the fact that Western Civilization Software has not let me down yet.
Quote from: tgb on May 08, 2012, 09:19:07 AM
I got this virtually sight unseen on the strength of the AAR's and the fact that Western Civilization Software has not let me down yet.
Western Civ is a great bunch of guys. Very talented. Can't wait to get my hands on this!
Definitely wish I had a beefier laptop to play this smoothly for when I travel, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite tactical strategy games. I get absent-minded on using my cards though, and I usually end up barely winning with major losses.
Played through and barely won the first tutorial. My nit is the key/mouse combination for tilt.rotate: LM+PG+CRTL.
OK, both the manual and tutorial are wrong or unclear on tilt and rotate.
Rotate = CRTL+right mouse button drag
tilt = ALT+right mouse button drag
Downloading my copy now.
Folks planning on downloading be advised: this is 932 MB of file. The download-challenged should consider buying the disk.
Quote from: Bismarck on May 08, 2012, 11:43:51 AM
Played through and barely won the first tutorial. My nit is the key/mouse combination for tilt.rotate: LM+PG+CRTL.
OK, both the manual and tutorial are wrong or unclear on tilt and rotate.
Rotate = CRTL+right mouse button drag
tilt = ALT+right mouse button drag
i use Sift, Alt, and CRTL with mouse wheel for height, tilt, and turn
(mouse wheel alone gives a tilt and height combo)
if you dont have a mouse wheel, page up and page down instead should do the trick
Yeah, the tutorial instructions confused me with the page commands.
Other than issues with rotating the map, my only complaint is that sprites are hard to see (for me, at least). I'm using chits not because if principle, but because it makes the game clearer. If there was an option for sprites with bases like the Strategic Command or old Talonsoft games, I'd be happier.
I never played the board game, and so far just tackled a couple of turns of the first tutorial, but like what I see so far. Will read the manual while I'm working (working from home makes it so easy, sometimes).
@tgb Top-down view may help you.
Since I won't be doing a formal review, I'll explain some mechanics.
Turns are divided into alternating phases as long as players have APs. One unit can move or attack per phase as long as it has APs. You can spend just some of its APs and come back in a later phase. Reachable hexes are blue, visible orange and targetable yellow.. Facing can be changed in a move. Troops with 5 APs can be rallied. Chances of hits are shown over targets. Free moves can be gained by playing CAP cards.
Groups can be formed with SHIFT-clicks, allowing multiple units to be moved and fired in a phase. One unit can fire with the other group members adding 1 to the die roll.
My brief play with the first tutorial, has it set to counters and 2d camera mode. I have no idea why when resolving the dice throws it wanted to take an image from my web cam. My first attack, and I'm confronted with a picture of my slack jawed self staring back in amazement! I soon set that to never do it again. Randomising through a web cam image is something I've never seen in a game before.
Whilst some people may enjoy 3d fully rotateable board and sprites - I think it plays best top down, with the counters. I like the debriefing after the battle and the map and nato symbols replay you can run through (and presumably capture to Youtube). It even saves the game/replay to your account on Slitherine's servers I think.
Impressive stuff.
Quote from: spelk on May 08, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
My brief play with the first tutorial, has it set to counters and 2d camera mode. I have no idea why when resolving the dice throws it wanted to take an image from my web cam. My first attack, and I'm confronted with a picture of my slack jawed self staring back in amazement! I soon set that to never do it again. Randomising through a web cam image is something I've never seen in a game before.
I'm a little concerned about your comment here. I don't think I'm comfortable with a PC or console game taking my picture while I'm playing. Something is not right with that, in fact something is not just right, it's wrong. Privacy anyone? Corporate intrusion into my home?
If I buy this game, I will be sure to place a piece of black electricians tape over my camera in addition to shutting off the option in game.
Don't be so paranoid ;). What Spelk is referring to is an option to capture physical dice rolls with a web cam just to add to the board game flavor. It's easily disabled and replaced with digital rolls.
Spelk probably screwed up with his webcam. :)
Quote from: spelk on May 08, 2012, 02:56:58 PM
My brief play with the first tutorial, has it set to counters and 2d camera mode. I have no idea why when resolving the dice throws it wanted to take an image from my web cam. My first attack, and I'm confronted with a picture of my slack jawed self staring back in amazement! I soon set that to never do it again. Randomising through a web cam image is something I've never seen in a game before.
Whilst some people may enjoy 3d fully rotateable board and sprites - I think it plays best top down, with the counters. I like the debriefing after the battle and the map and nato symbols replay you can run through (and presumably capture to Youtube). It even saves the game/replay to your account on Slitherine's servers I think.
Impressive stuff.
It has a game option where you can roll dice yourself, and your webcam can 'read' the pips on them and inject it into the game.
I didn't think it was on by default, however. You should check to see if the dice-cam option is off.
It can't be default; taking spelk's picture violates any number of international conventions.
Quote from: Bismarck on May 08, 2012, 04:18:04 PM
It can't be default; taking spelk's picture violates any number of international conventions.
;D
Quote from: Bismarck on May 08, 2012, 04:18:04 PM
It can't be default; taking spelk's picture violates any number of international conventions.
I have a laptop with a built in web-cam, so I suppose it detected it and turned the option on!
It was a bit of a shock to me to be honest. Seeing myself, staring gormlessly at the screen wondering if my infantry had made a successful attack.
My initial impression was that it was using the web cam to generate a random seed of some sort - the actual cam dialogue that popped up looked a bit hokey and tacked on. It had two buttons, Use web-cam for dice rolls, or Never user web-cam for dice rolls. Reading those now, after folks have told me, I can see that they want to use it for detecting real dice, but at the time, I thought it was some algorithmic magery! :)
I hope it didn't capture an image to store against the first game, because I'd like to have tarted myself up a bit, posed MySpace style. ;)
Quote from: spelk on May 08, 2012, 05:07:46 PM
I hope it didn't capture an image to store against the first game, because I'd like to have tarted myself up a bit, posed MySpace style. ;)
Duck face!
Duck face!
Duck face!
Duck face!
Duck face!
OK, played through the tutorial - not a fan. Too busy and confusing.
Then I played through the same scenario without the tutorial (first scenario). I like it. This is a fine rendition of the boardgame. Sounds are good, music is fun.
First impression is that this is another win by Western Civ.
I own the boardgame and really enjoy playing it. Do I need or will I even like the computer version?
While I won't use that option, I have to admit the capturing physical die rolls thing is pretty cool!
Quote from: TheCommandTent on May 08, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
I own the boardgame and really enjoy playing it. Do I need or will I even like the computer version?
I've only played one scenario in the PC game, but that's all I've played of the boardgame, too.
Do you need it? Do we need anything?
The major draw for you is probably multiplayer - we'll need to see how the community develops as to whether it's worth it for you.
Quote from: son_of_montfort on May 08, 2012, 08:05:35 PM
While I won't use that option, I have to admit the capturing physical die rolls thing is pretty cool!
We should roll some d20s and see what it does...
Quote from: LongBlade on May 08, 2012, 08:06:17 PM
Quote from: TheCommandTent on May 08, 2012, 08:00:36 PM
I own the boardgame and really enjoy playing it. Do I need or will I even like the computer version?
I've only played one scenario in the PC game, but that's all I've played of the boardgame, too.
Do you need it? Do we need anything?
The major draw for you is probably multiplayer - we'll need to see how the community develops as to whether it's worth it for you.
I think you pretty much nailed it. I'll have to keep an eye out for how popular multiplayer is.
I'm down for some multi-player for those who are night owls or early birds depending on your geographical location!
OK. This is the best game purchase I've made in quite some time. Pretty f'n outstanding.
Am I crazy or does one of the songs sound like a slightly altered version of the theme to Robin Hood?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHGgrb29hj4
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 12:26:26 AM
OK. This is the best game purchase I've made in quite some time. Pretty f'n outstanding.
That's quite a statement.... Its that good? Could you explain why or is it just a feeling?
Well I really like the mechanics of the game; action points, some card driven action options and squad based. I've never played the board game so I have no point of reference in that regard. There is some disappointment being expressed that the classic APS (Action Point System, I think) is not fully implemented, but will be added in with an update. That doesn't bother me because I wasn't looking for a true translation of the board game. Anyway it really hits a sweet spot for me with games. Squad based tactical combat. There are just enough pieces to move to open up the game to wide variety of tactical decisions, but not so many that you lose track of them or the plan. And that is a big factor in my liking the game. I love big wargames, but honestly these days I rather be able to sit down and play a full scenario or 5 over the course of an evening then having to come back to a game repeatedly over the course of several weeks.
Now that I'm getting the system down, I can focus on tactics and they are presenting themselves in spades with this game. I really like that it's a back and forth between the two sides with single moves rather than let me move all mine and then you move yours. It really makes the decisions much more intense IMO.
So far the AI and I are a good match on normal difficulty. Partly due to my not knowing the system inside and out, partly due to, in my experience, that AIs in general handle smaller scenarios better in any game, partly due to the luck of the die and I've had both really lucky and really shitty rolls that have made me yell out loud. It's the fact that I'm yelling out loud about a roll that really reaffirms the game for me.
Anyway I'm looking forward to some multi-player and I think the server based system is really going to make an evening of gaming easy and enjoyable for a couple of guys to get together, move chits, roll the die and shoot the breeze.
*EDIT* And did I mention the counters and maps are really well done. I hate sprites. They have never really done anything for me in a wargame, but give me a good counter and map setup and it's wargaming wet dream.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 02:21:23 AM
roll the die and shoot the breeze.
I bet you need a double six to put a slug in that russkie breeze! :)
I bet no less than a dozen times I've spent my Command Action Points this evening getting that one unit up to the APs necessary to fire with a +70% to hit ratio and rolled low.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 02:21:23 AM
Well I really like the mechanics of the game; action points, some card driven action options and squad based. I've never played the board game so I have no point of reference in that regard. There is some disappointment being expressed that the classic APS (Action Point System, I think) is not fully implemented, but will be added in with an update. That doesn't bother me because I wasn't looking for a true translation of the board game. Anyway it really hits a sweet spot for me with games. Squad based tactical combat. There are just enough pieces to move to open up the game to wide variety of tactical decisions, but not so many that you lose track of them or the plan. And that is a big factor in my liking the game. I love big wargames, but honestly these days I rather be able to sit down and play a full scenario or 5 over the course of an evening then having to come back to a game repeatedly over the course of several weeks.
Now that I'm getting the system down, I can focus on tactics and they are presenting themselves in spades with this game. I really like that it's a back and forth between the two sides with single moves rather than let me move all mine and then you move yours. It really makes the decisions much more intense IMO.
So far the AI and I are a good match on normal difficulty. Partly due to my not knowing the system inside and out, partly due to, in my experience, that AIs in general handle smaller scenarios better in any game, partly due to the luck of the die and I've had both really lucky and really shitty rolls that have made me yell out loud. It's the fact that I'm yelling out loud about a roll that really reaffirms the game for me.
Anyway I'm looking forward to some multi-player and I think the server based system is really going to make an evening of gaming easy and enjoyable for a couple of guys to get together, move chits, roll the die and shoot the breeze.
*EDIT* And did I mention the counters and maps are really well done. I hate sprites. They have never really done anything for me in a wargame, but give me a good counter and map setup and it's wargaming wet dream.
+1
Bison, are you aware of, that MP games can be saved too, and if both player have it stored they can continue on another eve.
i found out (in those exciting! weeks of beta-testing:) ) that the best 'natural view' for my taste of playing evolved to: adjust the map as if i were just sitting/standing behind a table with the board game (which i dont own) with chits on it.
so first i rotate to my side, and then adjust tilting and height... where i sometimes alter height in-game, again depending on the situation unfolding
now where it is released with map and scenario editor ... i hope some SL/ASL 'ported' scenarios will show up soon too 8)
I always wished for a computerized SL/ASL which takes away all the burdon of rules and just leave the fun ...and CoH is as close as it get
Yeah Mike I figured you could just based on the fact that it does an auto save at the end of each turn. What's the longest turn number for a scenario? I've only seen 5 turn scenarios so far. I have played around with one of the purchase unit scenarios, which can put a good 30+ pieces on the board. Not nearly as many as some of the games I play, but a good solid number to really mix up the troop compositions and ratio for combined arms action.
iirc, i have played 8 turn scenario (Endless Plains which is a tank battle)
in general for me its often just one or two turns to few to reach the victory locations ;)
...well, that just give the right pressure of urgency to reach the goals (phase line in real life) in time.
i sometimes wished there were a 'Add another Turn' action card to play
hmm... i think i post that in the dev forum
Quote from: MikeGER on May 09, 2012, 02:45:55 AM
now where it is released with map and scenario editor ... i hope some SL/ASL 'ported' scenarios will show up soon too 8)
I might be reading this wrong, but it does have an editor. I suspect IF the game catches on there will be a good number of user made scenarios being made.
Quote from: MikeGER on May 09, 2012, 03:11:35 AM
iirc, i have played 8 turn scenario (Endless Plains which is a tank battle)
in general for me its often just one or two turns to few to reach the victory locations ;)
...well, that just give the right pressure of urgency to reach the goals (phase line in real life) in time.
i sometimes wished there were a 'Add another Turn' action card to play
hmm... i think i post that in the dev forum
Tell me about it. Sometimes even in the 5 turn ones, I've been like HOLY $H!T I still have another 3 turns to be beaten completely down.
And 8 turns seems short, but when you add in the CAP and cards it really lengthens out the game turns.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:14:17 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on May 09, 2012, 02:45:55 AM
now where it is released with map and scenario editor ... i hope some SL/ASL 'ported' scenarios will show up soon too 8)
I might be reading this wrong, but it does have an editor. I suspect IF the game catches on there will be a good number of user made scenarios being made.
my fault ;)
should have written:
now where it is released including map and scenario editor
I'm so confused. So the map and scenario editor that came with the download isn't functional? I've opened it up and it seemed like you could monkey around with it, but I didn't do anything just opened it up.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:16:04 AM
Tell me about it. Sometimes even in the 5 turn ones, I've been like HOLY $H!T I still have another 3 turns to be beaten completely down.
And 8 turns seems short, but when you add in the CAP and cards it really lengthens out the game turns.
i play on 'hard' (the AI gets more/better? units)
and i prefer to move cautiously so its just not enuf moment in 8 turns to reach the end of the map (with my tactics) and the last victory location or squeeze the last pocket of resistance
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:19:31 AM
I'm so confused. So the map and scenario editor that came with the download isn't functional? I've opened it up and it seemed like you could monkey around with it, but I didn't do anything just opened it up.
in the main game menu you will find a new entry called "Edit Map / Scenario" which will open the editing UI and tools
i have to admit that i didn't used the editor yet ... i just have taken a glance at the Editor manual so far, which had to be studied in detail before jumping in i guess
there were just to many scenarios to explore already there ;)
I've only played a dozen games so far and the turtling impluse is there for me too. Go slow, seek cover and fire at high%, but your right I also need to consciously remind myself to keep pushing toward the victory hex. What I do know is that the AI is much better at conserving APs for a more sustained turn momentum than I am currently.
Ah ok. I was thinking you said there is not a working editor. It's all clear now. :)
thanks Bison - wavering on purchase now - its that kind of immersion im looking for in a game
Just don't tell the Missus I made you do it!
I'm not getting how grouping works. I can group adjacent units, and I get the +1 bonus when firing with one, but when I move the group leader shouldn't all the units move with it keeping the same position?
No. You have to switch between each unit and move individually. It took me awhile to get the knack of keeping the units linked as I moved them and not accidently breaking the grouping with a mis-click. Basically you are doing platoon or company manuveurs, but each squad/vehicle is doing an independent movement within the formation . The bonus +1 and the fact you move several units compared to the single unit moves during a single phase are the benefits.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:59:02 AM
The bonus +1 and the fact you move several units compared to the single unit moves during a single phase are the benefits.
...and those command points go to the whole group (each uint in the group get the point you dedicate to the group)
Quote from: MikeGER on May 09, 2012, 04:29:36 AM
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:59:02 AM
The bonus +1 and the fact you move several units compared to the single unit moves during a single phase are the benefits.
...and those command points go to the whole group (each uint in the group get the point you dedicate to the group)
Are you talking about transferring CAP's?
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:59:02 AM
No. You have to switch between each unit and move individually. It took me awhile to get the knack of keeping the units linked as I moved them and not accidently breaking the grouping with a mis-click. Basically you are doing platoon or company manuveurs, but each squad/vehicle is doing an independent movement within the formation . The bonus +1 and the fact you move several units compared to the single unit moves during a single phase are the benefits.
Thank God! I thought I was the only one having trouble.
The other mouse click that I'm still struggling with and not because it's wanky is the move vs. fire controls. Right click moves. Left click fires. Now I cannot tell you how many times I've accidently moved a unit out of a hasty cover position and into a hex with an enemy chit. I lose the defensive position and the chit all in one fell swoop, because I cannot remember my right from left click in the heat of battle.
Quote from: tgb on May 09, 2012, 05:54:53 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on May 09, 2012, 04:29:36 AM
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 03:59:02 AM
The bonus +1 and the fact you move several units compared to the single unit moves during a single phase are the benefits.
...and those command points go to the whole group (each uint in the group get the point you dedicate to the group)
Are you talking about transferring CAP's?
Yes if you use a CAP transfer to AP for a group every chit gets the point has been my experience. And it's been my experience when you unlink them, they lose the points if not used before being unlinked.
What about using the Free Action card on the member of a group? Do they all get it?
I don't believe so. I think only the highlighted unit gets the free attack action.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 02:31:20 AM
I bet no less than a dozen times I've spent my Command Action Points this evening getting that one unit up to the APs necessary to fire with a +70% to hit ratio and rolled low.
I've done it a couple of times but not enough to pronounce it a bug. I did seem a bit surprised by the results and I'm keeping an eye on it - especially since you're noticing it, too.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 09:32:16 AM
The other mouse click that I'm still struggling with and not because it's wanky is the move vs. fire controls. Right click moves. Left click fires. Now I cannot tell you how many times I've accidently moved a unit out of a hasty cover position and into a hex with an enemy chit. I lose the defensive position and the chit all in one fell swoop, because I cannot remember my right from left click in the heat of battle.
Yes, the UI is a bit quirky. Between it and the tutorial I almost walked away from the game. My suggestion is to skip the tutorial and start playing - especially if you already know the boardgame.
Bison, I'm not sure what your hours look like but I'll try to clear some room this week and see if we can get some MP gaming in.
Sounds good LB.
You really didn't like the tutorial that much? I found it pretty informative the first few times I played them. I still have yet to beat the second tutorial with the Germans. I've attempted it about 6 or 7 times now. I grind to a slow halt once I get in position near the victory point.
For me the tutorial seemed to be out of sync with the game. I could get ahead or behind it and never really felt it was working.
The screen got so filled up with windows I got annoyed. Plus I already know the boardgame - at least the basics - so I just moved on.
Yeah I can see your point. I guess I just read them like manual pages and didn't attempt to play along. Also I had no idea what I was doing so any help I could get I was happy to have.
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 10:13:31 AM
Sounds good LB.
You really didn't like the tutorial that much? I found it pretty informative the first few times I played them. I still have yet to beat the second tutorial with the Germans. I've attempted it about 6 or 7 times now. I grind to a slow halt once I get in position near the victory point.
It took me several tries to beat the second tutorial, but I finally did it this morning. Here's how:
I put one unit in the deep woods to the left and right of the starting position and had them build a hasty defense. That way they were able to control the Soviet units that appear there. I grouped everyone else together and made a beeline to the victory hex (which doesn't start giving points until the end of the third round). Having to cross all that open terrain, all but one of those units were killed, but I was able to take the hex on the 4th round and held it to the end for the win.
Because the tutorial teaches about hiding, you would think that's a command you need to win the scenario. It's a trap. Hidden units will never make it to the VH by the end of the game.
Try it on hard. It'll bring you to tears as the AI disrupts and destroys your advancing pixel, chit comrades.
Quote from: tgb on May 09, 2012, 11:27:41 AM
Quote from: Bison on May 09, 2012, 10:13:31 AM
Sounds good LB.
You really didn't like the tutorial that much? I found it pretty informative the first few times I played them. I still have yet to beat the second tutorial with the Germans. I've attempted it about 6 or 7 times now. I grind to a slow halt once I get in position near the victory point.
It took me several tries to beat the second tutorial, but I finally did it this morning. Here's how:
I put one unit in the deep woods to the left and right of the starting position and had them build a hasty defense. That way they were able to control the Soviet units that appear there. I grouped everyone else together and made a beeline to the victory hex (which doesn't start giving points until the end of the third round). Having to cross all that open terrain, all but one of those units were killed, but I was able to take the hex on the 4th round and held it to the end for the win.
Because the tutorial teaches about hiding, you would think that's a command you need to win the scenario. It's a trap. Hidden units will never make it to the VH by the end of the game.
The only thing that I would add that I did in my game to finally win it was to place two units in the trees hasty cover to the woods on the right. The other six units I pushed through the trees on the left taking out the two Soviet units and pushing up toward the buildings at the top of the screen and then moved to the center of the map to take the victory hex in turn 3. I really got lucky with the dice and took out the two Soviets on the left quickly in turn 1 using CAP to bump up the % only slightly. Frankly I'm not finding value in wasting the CAPs to go much above 50%. The dice never roll well for me in the 70% + situations. Anyway, by moving toward the buildings as opposed to the center you can reduce the LOS of the MMG in the victory hex and any supporting units have of your advancing troops. Plus IF (and this is a big IF) you take the victory hex in turn 3 or 4, your squads are in group and in position to break group and occupy the buildings covering the Soviet advancing reenforcements avenues of approach.
Well I sat in the lobby for 3+ hours and got one game. Sort of a downer honestly. Hopefully the online community will grow.
1. i opt for a notifier App (i.world and Android) and a PC tool (taskbar) that gives a ring if players (filtered by name) enter the lobby
2. the possibility to run two instances (hidden to the user in one UI) where in one instance you can join in the lobby ... waiting, while in the second you can play a solo game, ...get a notification when your buddy (player, filtered by name) shows up, then are able to save your solo game, and switch to the lobby to start the MP match
I like your second idea alot. It would be nice to play while waiting.
Had a great late night and/or early morning game today. I'm highly impressed with the multiplayer setup. Dang good fun. I went 1-1 today in multiplayer matches and the second game went down to the last phases of the last turn. Not too shabby.
Pro tip - the "N" key labels all the units, making sprites easier to see.
Quote from: MikeGER on May 10, 2012, 04:31:13 AM
1. i opt for a notifier App (i.world and Android) and a PC tool (taskbar) that gives a ring if players (filtered by name) enter the lobby
2. the possibility to run two instances (hidden to the user in one UI) where in one instance you can join in the lobby ... waiting, while in the second you can play a solo game, ...get a notification when your buddy (player, filtered by name) shows up, then are able to save your solo game, and switch to the lobby to start the MP match
I think Mike used to do that on our Call of Duty server, too. We'd all jump in at like 4 in the morning and there he'd be ready to frag some @$$. It was awesome.
I've been so busy playing indie titles in alpha phase that this one completely went over my head. I'm not the biggest fan of wargames that have a boardgame feel, but you guys really seem to be enjoying this one. Worth the plunge?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 10, 2012, 08:39:04 AM
I've been so busy playing indie titles in alpha phase that this one completely went over my head. I'm not the biggest fan of wargames that have a boardgame feel, but you guys really seem to be enjoying this one. Worth the plunge?
Yes. It plays more or less exactly as the boardgame, but in this case the boardgame is so good that I think you'll like it. It may very well be a classic.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 08:26:30 AM
I think Mike used to do that on our Call of Duty server, too. We'd all jump in at like 4 in the morning and there he'd be ready to frag some @$$. It was awesome.
those were the days :)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 10, 2012, 09:07:38 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 08:47:37 AM
It may very well be a classic.
Wow.
The UI is a bit difficult to get used to but I like what it's doing. Units have action points, in addition to which you, the player, have Command Action Points. These CAPs can be spent to modify dice rolls or to give units additional APs. In addition, the player also has a Pass feature, which allows you to pass the initiative to your opponent. So you can sit on your APs and wait for your opponent to spend them coming to you. But if you pass and he passes the turn starts over, so you may waste them.
The result is a dynamic not too dissimilar to a real-time game, and yet it also incorporates a bit of a bluffing system like Poker. You never really know if you're saving your AP or wasting them.
The AI in this game is tough. It will smash you if you're not really careful and smart.
The boardgame itself is something I like to compare to ASL, but without all the overhead. This game does a decent job of making a turn-based tactical game into a nearly real-time game without lots of fuss.
The only other gripe is combat resolution. As noted above you can add CAPs to your die rolls to get them in the 70% range, and still end up with nothing. It can be frustrating as it seems to happen more frequently than expected. That could be a bug or it could be we just need to RTFM and find out what those numbers really mean.
Either way you need to check out the game.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 09:24:23 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on May 10, 2012, 09:07:38 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 08:47:37 AM
It may very well be a classic.
Wow.
The UI is a bit difficult to get used to but I like what it's doing. Units have action points, in addition to which you, the player, have Command Action Points. These CAPs can be spent to modify dice rolls or to give units additional APs. In addition, the player also has a Pass feature, which allows you to pass the initiative to your opponent. So you can sit on your APs and wait for your opponent to spend them coming to you. But if you pass and he passes the turn starts over, so you may waste them.
The result is a dynamic not too dissimilar to a real-time game, and yet it also incorporates a bit of a bluffing system like Poker. You never really know if you're saving your AP or wasting them.
The AI in this game is tough. It will smash you if you're not really careful and smart.
The boardgame itself is something I like to compare to ASL, but without all the overhead. This game does a decent job of making a turn-based tactical game into a nearly real-time game without lots of fuss.
The only other gripe is combat resolution. As noted above you can add CAPs to your die rolls to get them in the 70% range, and still end up with nothing. It can be frustrating as it seems to happen more frequently than expected. That could be a bug or it could be we just need to RTFM and find out what those numbers really mean.
Either way you need to check out the game.
goddamit!!!!!!!!!
this morning it was this, lunch it was CK2, and now back to this again - high praise indeed
Quote from: MikeGER on May 10, 2012, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 08:26:30 AM
I think Mike used to do that on our Call of Duty server, too. We'd all jump in at like 4 in the morning and there he'd be ready to frag some @$$. It was awesome.
those were the days :)
We'll have more. We just need another great FPS we're all playing. Sooner or later, one will show up.
Yes, it's frustrating when you spend CAP and still don't make your roll, but at the end of the day it's still gambling on the roll of 2D6. A 70% chance you'll make it is still a 30% chance you won't. As often as those have failed, I've attacked with a 16% chance and hit. That's why it's always worth taking the shot if you have nothing better to spend AP's on. As you said, you never know for sure when the round will end.
I was up till 4 am playing. Nuff said.
^All right, despite my paranoia about the camera dice roll thingy you've all convinced me to get the game.
The question now is should I get the boxed version with the nice color manual or just jump into the digital download?
Quote from: W8taminute on May 10, 2012, 12:08:46 PM
^All right, despite my paranoia about the camera dice roll thingy you've all convinced me to get the game.
The question now is should I get the boxed version with the nice color manual or just jump into the digital download?
I'm not sure how much you'll need the manual, but I have played some of the game and understand its mechanics (they're not terribly complex). Maybe other folks here can lend more advice.
i think its just a question of personal taste if boxed or digital
(i guess the manual in the box is just the ebook, that comes with the download version, printed out ...well its hard to get it printed yourself for 10$ in a local shop ...or at home)
Thanks for the feedback guys. Digital download it is then! :)
Onne thing that bothers me is "The Gap" tutorial. Tutorials teaching mechanics should be easy so new players can concentrate on learning the commands instead of being shot to pieces. The last tutorial should be the hardest in terms of tactics.
Quote from: Bismarck on May 10, 2012, 02:52:06 PM
Onne thing that bothers me is "The Gap" tutorial. Tutorials teaching mechanics should be easy so new players can concentrate on learning the commands instead of being shot to pieces. The last tutorial should be the hardest in terms of tactics.
I posted somewhere (it might have been here :)) that one of the problems with that tutorial is that it teaches you about hiding, so the player assumes that's the command that you need to win. Except hiding units is the WORST thing you can do as the Germans in The Gap, since there's no way a hidden unit will make it to the victory hext by the end of the game.
Quote from: W8taminute on May 10, 2012, 01:59:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. Digital download it is then! :)
I got a Kindle last Christmas, and it's been
great for reading most of the pdf manuals for all these digital downloads.
Except for the ones that have so much friggin' artwork on the pages that they're 55MB of graphics. Some of those choke it down to snail speed. :-[ I wish all the publishers would also create "Lite" versions of manuals for use with ebooks and printing, like Matrix usually does.
I will confess I am struggling a more than a little with this one. I think it is partially because I am having some trouble translating the mechanics of the game into something that even vaguely approaches tactics. I am deeply afraid this is far more a comment on me than on the game!
I agree that the first two tutorials may give a poor first taste of the system if you've never encountered the board game before. Those two back to back gave the impression the game might be a bit more in the vein of a puzzle-as-tactics game.
I can sense some really compelling game play here. I'm certainly reading about it just about everywhere from everyone. But at the moment I find myself conserving forces primarily to have a numerical chip advantage prior to any engagement. That's not working well for me. Hopefully I shall break on through to other side soon.
The only bonus to "stacking" chits is the group attack/movement bonus. There is no additional firepower brought into the fight, as far as I can tell since you can only attack with one unit during any given phase.
Quote from: Bison on May 11, 2012, 08:27:54 PM
The only bonus to "stacking" chits is the group attack/movement bonus. There is no additional firepower brought into the fight, as far as I can tell since you can only attack with one unit during any given phase.
Gents, checkout this unboxing/review/gamemechanics video of the CoH boardgame
it explains group fire (at 5:29) and what tactical possibilities just in a small firefight with 2 against 3 chits could be developed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4z7W_cgrp0
unfortunately its total in German language!
... but on the other side, i bet its kind as funny as the often dubbed 'The Untergang'-clip to listen to for those non-german language understanding ppl.
Cause German diction and pronunciation of this 'Landser' here -especially when explaing the game mechanics-, sounds just like 'the German military-tune voices in-game' or a warmovie ... i love it ;)
Not only does stacking not give an advantage, but a successful attack into that hex damages all the units. You're much better off grouping units in adjacent hexes.
Quote from: Nefaro on May 10, 2012, 05:54:01 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on May 10, 2012, 01:59:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys. Digital download it is then! :)
I got a Kindle last Christmas, and it's been great for reading most of the pdf manuals for all these digital downloads.
Except for the ones that have so much friggin' artwork on the pages that they're 55MB of graphics. Some of those choke it down to snail speed. :-[ I wish all the publishers would also create "Lite" versions of manuals for use with ebooks and printing, like Matrix usually does.
I've really been tempted to pick up one of these little programs that converts pdf to word, since word usually works better for me on the kindle, without all the slowdown. But I'm not sure how much I'd use it.
Well even if you only use it one time for a game you play it'd be worth it. A number of the apps are free.
The program in which I tried the demo worked great but the full version cost $20 I believe. I'll look around for a free one. Thanks.
Quote from: Bison on May 10, 2012, 02:55:17 AM
Well I sat in the lobby for 3+ hours and got one game. Sort of a downer honestly. Hopefully the online community will grow.
Count on it growing by +1 Svend Karlson
I've bought and installed the game today. I won't go straight into MP, I'll first learn to play via the manual, tutorial and some SP gaming. I do however want to be playing this MP either via pot-luck in the Lobby or by arranging matches.
I'm in Europe, GMT + 0.
I'm GMT+9 and will be on later tonight around 2200 my time, if anyone wants a game or two.
I hear he AI is pretty poor so this means I shan't be buying. I can't commit to multiplayer games. If or hopefully when I hear the AI has been improved and it gets some praise I will then buy. Some games a good scenario maker will get the AI to do great things like in CMBN however I'm not sure this is the case here.
All in all for me personally there is little due out that I'm really excited about, only projects along way away like Panther east front game and Combat Mission east front. Oh and also Ageods Rome game has me alittle interested as I fancy an ancient warfare game which is an era I've never bothered with before. Whoops forgot I have slihg tinterest in the enxt Close Combat game but I need to hear if they;ve increased In survivability to CC2 levels, also interested to see what the new engine game plays like, again thats years away.
I have my own game design idea regarding a fantasy setting with a unique combat aspect combining a top down Napoleonic boardgame look with a sort of hands off mechanic. Based on shapes\formations\orders\skills\weapons\armour\training\dicipline\leader skills.
Good games tonight online. 1-0-1 not too shabby, but I got in some really lucky pre-planned artillery strikes that turned the tide toward the Russians very early in the second game and gimped the German advance.
How about some of you would take the time to da a pbem aar? that would be great.
i am really on the fence about this one. mainly because of a lack of time.
Quote from: Wodin on May 13, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
I hear he AI is pretty poor so this means I shan't be buying. I can't commit to multiplayer games. If or hopefully when I hear the AI has been improved and it gets some praise I will then buy. Some games a good scenario maker will get the AI to do great things like in CMBN however I'm not sure this is the case here.
All in all for me personally there is little due out that I'm really excited about, only projects along way away like Panther east front game and Combat Mission east front. Oh and also Ageods Rome game has me alittle interested as I fancy an ancient warfare game which is an era I've never bothered with before. Whoops forgot I have slihg tinterest in the enxt Close Combat game but I need to hear if they;ve increased In survivability to CC2 levels, also interested to see what the new engine game plays like, again thats years away.
I have my own game design idea regarding a fantasy setting with a unique combat aspect combining a top down Napoleonic boardgame look with a sort of hands off mechanic. Based on shapes\formations\orders\skills\weapons\armour\training\dicipline\leader skills.
I'm surprised to hear that some are complaining about the AI. It's stronger on the defense than on offense, but I have been pleasantly surprised by reactive tactics to my own, and some unpredictably offensive moves. It's a rather challenging AI in my opinion, and I sense it will do a much better job prepping the player for online play than most computer AIs.
I suspect that complaints of AI may be more than a little informed by the staggering number of tactical options available to any given piece at any given moment. Clever human players -- of which I am unquestionably NOT -- can really work to take advantage of this plethora of options. A computer AI can not offer the same grasp of complexity and nuance.
I'd put the Conflict of Heroes AI on par with Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge, although I have a much longer sample size from the latter.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 10, 2012, 09:24:23 AM
The boardgame itself is something I like to compare to ASL, but without all the overhead. This game does a decent job of making a turn-based tactical game into a nearly real-time game without lots of fuss.
I think LB has hit on what makes this game special. It has found a sweet spot between compelling tactical play and simplicity in the ruleset.
There's a certain pen and paper rpg that I am tremendously fond of that could benefit from finding a similar sweet spot.
Quote from: Wodin on May 13, 2012, 03:24:06 PMI hear he AI is pretty poor so this means I shan't be buying.
Just out of curiosity, where are you hearing this?
Everything I've seen - and most of what's been discussed here - is that it's a competent AI. Maybe not a world-beater, but certainly not a negative overall for the game.
Do you have online reviews/discussions you can link to? Or were you just chatting with your mates about it?
No issues if you've heard negatives; it's just that they run counter to what others have said so I think we'd like to see both sides of the story if you can point us that way.
thanks :)
Quote from: Keunert on May 14, 2012, 06:25:52 AM
How about some of you would take the time to da a pbem aar? that would be great.
i am really on the fence about this one. mainly because of a lack of time.
I'll see if I can put something together.
I think the AI is as good if not better than about 90% of the wargaming AI. Long term after you've learned the system inside and out, it's effectiveness will be reduced. However if you use the difficulty levels which gives some bonuses to the AI like extra AP, CAP, more quality units; it still provides an very stiff challenge. Also the randomness that the dice roll adds to the game is really a great mechanic that disrupts the best laid plans and the smartest human tactican in his tracks with a low roll or the AI rolling high.
Quote from: Keunert on May 14, 2012, 06:25:52 AM
How about some of you would take the time to da a pbem aar? that would be great.
i am really on the fence about this one. mainly because of a lack of time.
Until the MP AAR comes along, you may like to read this. It a combination of review and AAR, lengthy but readable and educational (about the game!)
http://www.oneguytoomanygames.com/2012/05/conflict-of-heroes-awakening-bear.html
Multiplayer AAR is located here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=1495.0
You better read the damn thing Keunert. I spent a good hour of my life creating it!
Quote from: Bison on May 14, 2012, 01:32:34 PM
I think the AI is as good if not better than about 90% of the wargaming AI. Long term after you've learned the system inside and out, it's effectiveness will be reduced. However if you use the difficulty levels which gives some bonuses to the AI like extra AP, CAP, more quality units; it still provides an very stiff challenge. Also the randomness that the dice roll adds to the game is really a great mechanic that disrupts the best laid plans and the smartest human tactican in his tracks with a low roll or the AI rolling high.
+1
here is a little CoH AI anecdote
last WE i played MP with a local wargaming buddy (the one i digital donated COH to his 50th birthday) It was 2 rounds of Partsian of course as a short test with switching of sides. when i played the Ivans and the battle begun i saw his 2 LMGs in the open and was already grinning about that easy prey... when his very first move was playing that 'paralysing' Action Card on my Maxim-HMG (which is key to the Ivans defense) and kept it silenced (and me busy with all kind of rally attempts ;-)) with his two LMGs until its destruction.
later on the phone I said "very smart move with this Action Card' and he responded: "i learned it from the AI, who did it to me when i was familiarizing with CoH"... i was kind of stunned!
(he had set up those LMGs in the open out of purpose! ...not as a Partisan-map newbees fault)
Great Bison, reading the aar i got the impression the germans would smack you and was surprised how you managed to keep em off.
sounded like a close one.
thank your for ther aar.
No problem Keunert. If you ever end up getting the game, the gauntlet is thrown for some multiplayer matches.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebusysignal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Fgauntlet1.jpg&hash=03133efac3421ee9551647fa76d7a62a0272c4fe)
Quote from: Keunert on May 15, 2012, 02:44:18 AM
reading the aar i got the impression the germans would smack you and was surprised how you managed to keep em off.
sounded like a close one.
Well let me tell you what. I honestly thought going into turn 3 that I was toast. I was down to three units and one was all but lost. Seriously if he had a few better rolls, he would have wiped me from the board. The dice rolls are one of my favorite factors in the game. There is no real math probability that predetermines the outcome like you have in most wargames. Here even if you only have 8% to hit, but no other options to use the AP take the shot. Sometimes the dice are good to you and you hit.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 14, 2012, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Wodin on May 13, 2012, 03:24:06 PMI hear he AI is pretty poor so this means I shan't be buying.
Just out of curiosity, where are you hearing this?
Everything I've seen - and most of what's been discussed here - is that it's a competent AI. Maybe not a world-beater, but certainly not a negative overall for the game.
Do you have online reviews/discussions you can link to? Or were you just chatting with your mates about it?
No issues if you've heard negatives; it's just that they run counter to what others have said so I think we'd like to see both sides of the story if you can point us that way.
thanks :)
Over on the Matrix forum. Since then I hear there are scripts that modders can play with. First link states users saying the AI is poor, the other two hint at it.
If it's as good as Command Ops which has the best out there then I take my hat off. I just don't want to buy it then fly through the scenarios beating them first time out.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3102781 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3102781)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3104722 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3104722)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3103911 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3103911)
Sorry Wodin, but those hardly constitute an overwhelming evidence as a completely hapless AI. A couple of guys think it's too easy. Which scenarios did they play? How many times did they replay? I don't know, but the first 2 scenarios are easy. They are meant to be as they are the tutorials. Reading what you linked it still seems as if no one has figured out a way to consistantly beat the a Russian AI in The Monsters scenario.
I noticed that if a game was a port from a board game, the AI will not be as good as a human (Field of Glory is the best example). This is because:
1) Scenarios are balanced
2) There are rules that are easy to follow for flexible human players but very dificult to code for the AI to follow or take advantage of.
This is the reason why World in Flames will come out with no AI during release.
Games with good AI are useually those purpose-built for single player action. Game rules and mechanics are well though out to suit AI implementation. Best example is Command Ops and Hannibal.
So far COH AI still puts up a challenge not like FOG. I'm actually stuck now in "The Gap" scenario vs the AI. Time will tell.
Quote from: Wodin on May 15, 2012, 03:31:19 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 14, 2012, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: Wodin on May 13, 2012, 03:24:06 PMI hear he AI is pretty poor so this means I shan't be buying.
Just out of curiosity, where are you hearing this?
Everything I've seen - and most of what's been discussed here - is that it's a competent AI. Maybe not a world-beater, but certainly not a negative overall for the game.
Do you have online reviews/discussions you can link to? Or were you just chatting with your mates about it?
No issues if you've heard negatives; it's just that they run counter to what others have said so I think we'd like to see both sides of the story if you can point us that way.
thanks :)
Over on the Matrix forum. Since then I hear there are scripts that modders can play with. First link states users saying the AI is poor, the other two hint at it.
If it's as good as Command Ops which has the best out there then I take my hat off. I just don't want to buy it then fly through the scenarios beating them first time out.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3102781 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3102781)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3104722 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3104722)
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3103911 (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3103911)
As many people have stated, the earlier scenarios are easier and the later scenarios tend to be harder. The additional firefight scenarios (of which there's a dozen-ish) also tend to be harder than the initial set of scenarios. Since most people tend to play the scenarios in order, you find most of the comments are based on just the first few scenarios. The AI is far from perfect but it is in my opinion orders of magnitude better than say Field of Glory which I have not once, ever, lost a scenario against the AI. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but take the early reviews with a grain of salt.
Welcome about Joram! I thought I'd seen you posting before today.
Thanks, I actually only found out about it this week. Then debated if I wasn't meant to be part of the club, then decided I didn't care, then debated whether I wanted to monitor another message board and then decided I didn't care again and thus here I am thanks to a lot of not caring!
Quote from: Bison on May 15, 2012, 03:59:48 AM
Sorry Wodin, but those hardly constitute an overwhelming evidence as a completely hapless AI. A couple of guys think it's too easy. Which scenarios did they play? How many times did they replay? I don't know, but the first 2 scenarios are easy. They are meant to be as they are the tutorials. Reading what you linked it still seems as if no one has figured out a way to consistantly beat the a Russian AI in The Monsters scenario.
I know, but it doesn't take long to work out how good an AI is in a game, and we all know 90% of the time they aren't. Command Ops never once has had negative comments about a weak AI even just after release. If I read a couple of people agreeing then I have to take some notice. I was asked to link to the posts, so I have done. I'm not trying to prosecute in a court of Law or something here, nor am I saying the game as a poor AI as a fact, all I'm saying is thats what I read and until I came hear I heard no different, nor did I hear the AI being praised. Obviously everyones opinion and motive has to be taken with a pinch of salt on the net but you'd be silly to discount every compliant aswell.
Still as long as the challenge is there at some point and with the chance of AI scripts it sounds good. Not sure I'm going to buy it still, even taking the AI out of the equation I just don't have that wargame itch at all. Also I know it's a boardgame conversion and all but I still feel games at this scale should monitored individual soldiers within a unit. If they had taken that from Squad Battles I'd be in. Take the best from SB and the best from CoH then that would be excellent. At the moment I have Red Victory and AOTR which though aren't that pretty and it's abstract nature can infuriate it's not as abstract as CoH, though CoH looks lovely.
Again if money was no issue I'd buy but more than anything I have no itch at all to play a Wargame.
Well SB is definitely more detailed and historical that this game.
If only SB gets the graphical 'wow factor' of Conflict of Heroes. :)
Quote from: joram on May 15, 2012, 08:01:17 AM
Thanks, I actually only found out about it this week. Then debated if I wasn't meant to be part of the club, then decided I didn't care, then debated whether I wanted to monitor another message board and then decided I didn't care again and thus here I am thanks to a lot of not caring!
We're not heavily advertising right now, but this is not supposed to be a closed club. Tell your friends! All are welcome.
The Info on the game says "This release includes a historical roster of infantry, artillery, mechanized and support units for the Axis and Soviet forces for the time frame of Operation Barbarossa. (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/424/details/Conflict.of.Heroes:.Awakening.the.Bear%21)"
Does that mean there are other forces in there or is this strictly German vs Russian because I would really like to play some Rumanians heading for Odessa?
Quote from: Double Deuce on May 15, 2012, 10:21:38 AM
Does that mean there are other forces in there or is this strictly German vs Russian because I would really like to play some Rumanians heading for Odessa?
IIRC sorry, i fear the answer is no
units are handled in a abstract way, but if the Rumanian's had no special equipment, i think you can reenact those fights with the 'Rifle' 'LMG' counters in the editor (...for example Russian partisans don't have a 'Partisan squad' just 'Rifle' and 'Maxim' too) and unit stats can be adjusted with the level of experience you set for each unit
No, there are no Romanian units at this time, at least not distinguishable in characteristics from other units.
Quote from: joram on May 15, 2012, 10:59:50 AM
No, there are no Romanian units at this time, at least not distinguishable in characteristics from other units.
Quote from: MikeGER on May 15, 2012, 10:50:57 AM
IIRC sorry, i fear the answer is no
OK, thanks for the replies. Still probably get it.
Is the Storm of Steel expansion going to be limited to Germans and Soviets too? I'm going to need to look up the board game website and figure out what expansions to expect. I know that Guadalcanal is in future development. A pacific consim would be a nice change from the WW2 west and east fronts.
once i went pbem with wargames i never again enjoyed an ai much. it is probably ok with tactical or largely scripted games, but with operational games it is a lot more fun to play humans. the pbem part of CoH certainly looks like its nicely done.
Quote from: Bison on May 15, 2012, 01:06:57 PM
Is the Storm of Steel expansion going to be limited to Germans and Soviets too? I'm going to need to look up the board game website and figure out what expansions to expect. I know that Guadalcanal is in future development. A pacific consim would be a nice change from the WW2 west and east fronts.
Storm of Steel expansion will be faithful to the boardgame which models battles in and around Kursk, 1943. I believe it too would thus be purely Germans vs Soviets.
Can you Pbem CoH or is it live connect? Would you want to pbem CoH with all those short action rounds?
Quote from: GJK on May 15, 2012, 02:32:28 PM
Can you Pbem CoH or is it live connect? Would you want to pbem CoH with all those short action rounds?
You cannot play PBEM no, and also no, it couldn't possibly work. Whilst you may have say, 5 turns in a battle, each turn consists of maybe 20 individual rounds of each player taking an individual action with a single unit or group of units, such as move, shoot or rally.
I've played 'The Monsters' scenario 5 times now as Germans and lost 5 times.
It is almost like a joke. The initial Soviet forces are numerically superior and I think also have better anti armor attack values, plus they are sited on high ground or in woods. If you somehow overcome that small problem, then and only then you get to deal with the T34s that arrive as reinforcements, which your own tanks pretty much cannot damage unless firing at the flank or rear at close range.
I'd love to hear how anyone has gained a victory on this scenario as the Germans! :D
Quote from: GJK on May 15, 2012, 02:32:28 PM
Can you Pbem CoH or is it live connect? Would you want to pbem CoH with all those short action rounds?
GJK the PBEM server is really easy to use. While you cannot do a traditional PBEM, you can start a game play as much as you want and save the game for you and your opponent to come back to later. The downside is you do have to be online at the same time.
For some reason, I find multiplayer to be very tedious because of the alternate moves game mechanics.
I make a move, my opponent takes a few minutes to do his moves (probably thinking a few moves ahead like chess), then back to me. I don't think ahead so much. Some slow loading and waiting. A scenario can last 2 to 3 hours. I do not have much time in one sitting. And if we save, there's no guarantee I can meet up for the next round. :(
I prefer PBEM anytime but it's just not possible with this game. Looks like I'll be playing more against the AI here even when I want to play with humans.
I've been averaging about 1-2 hours for the smaller/mediums scenarios. But I can see some folks taking a long time to plan and think.
So it's live play but you can save the game at some state to continue again later. I think that's common actually but a nice feature to have. Love my ASL via email. :-)
Out of Eight has reviewed the game. Good review allround, the odd concern with the usual suspects i.e graphics, no campaign and AI. Still a great review. I really enjoy it.
"Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! Review
Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear!, developed by Academy Games and Western Civilization Software and published by Slitherine and Matrix Games.
The Good: Streamlined rules and a smaller size for relatively quick games, sides alternate moves for constant play and faster reaction, tactical commander points can enhance attack or movement capabilities, action cards grant special abilities, map and scenario editor, choose between classic board game or more computer-specific rules, online multiplayer
The Not So Good: Inconsistent AI, no campaign mode, can't choose starting units on all maps, graphics could be better
What say you? A very approachable wargame with expedited battles and comprehensible rules: 7/8"
I'm not sure what he means by inconsistent AI. In the few games I've played the AI will mulch you unless you're very careful.
He said somewhere he watched it with FOW turned off it it seemed to have issues doing things and didn't attack fast enough plus got easily distracted etc. However it obviously isn't a game breaker as he marked it high. I'm not concerned anyway. Name a game with a great AI. Probably count them on one hand. Also I like winning ;D
Quote from: UlrichVonBek on May 16, 2012, 11:32:33 AM
He said somewhere he watched it with FOW turned off it it seemed to have issues doing things and didn't attack fast enough plus got easily distracted etc. However it obviously isn't a game breaker as he marked it high. I'm not concerned anyway. Name a game with a great AI. Probably count them on one hand. Also I like winning ;D
If you're looking for fun + weak AI try Warlock ;)
I have Warlock and it is great fun.
Quote from: Svend Karlson on May 15, 2012, 03:03:41 PM
I've played 'The Monsters' scenario 5 times now as Germans and lost 5 times.
It is almost like a joke. The initial Soviet forces are numerically superior and I think also have better anti armor attack values, plus they are sited on high ground or in woods. If you somehow overcome that small problem, then and only then you get to deal with the T34s that arrive as reinforcements, which your own tanks pretty much cannot damage unless firing at the flank or rear at close range.
I'd love to hear how anyone has gained a victory on this scenario as the Germans! :D
This was the scenario that practically ended CoH: AtB for me. I have yet to overcome the small problem and get to "deal" with the T-34s, unless "deal" with means getting the snot shot out of my last two tanks.
I have no advice on how to win except to move on to other less imbalanced scenarios. And this is a second reader who'd love to hear how anyone else managed to survive that horror.