GrogHeads Forum

...(with its Channel campaign automatically added in)...

...what add-ons do players most recommend to initially flesh out the game? My guess is the Birth of Flight, bomber, and St. Mihil campaign add ons.

Also, I've asked before several months ago about flight-stick recommendations, but I've slept since then so, what sticks would players suggest for a Win8 machine?

(I have a gamepad, btw, in case the game works at all well with that.)

I may have to give ROF another shot sometime in the future, myself.  Now that I have a TrackIR and a HOTAS, it'll be more fun.

I recall trying it out during a period when they had some server login issues, and that was something that drove me away at the time because I was getting dropped and login denied afterward.

I am a little bummed they didn't find a way to allow previous customers the ability to also use Steam...as it stands right now, they are two separate versions and you would have to buy two different versions to have on each platform.

That sounds like a server architecture problem.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 08, 2013, 10:03:17 AM
That sounds like a server architecture problem.

Yep, that is generally what they claimed...but would have been nice if there was a way to share/transfer licenses between the two....oh well, no big deal....haven't played it much in the last year anyway, hard to keep up with all the DLC:)

Steam certainly helps with that! Although on the other hand the Steam DLC are all packed into sets, so if you want one or two things you're screwed.

Maybe the RoF publishers would set up some kind of deal with Steam where they sell access to the Steam library cheap to people who already own the website version. That doesn't fix the two separate server problems though...

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 08, 2013, 10:06:14 AM

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 08, 2013, 10:03:17 AM
That sounds like a server architecture problem.

Yep, that is generally what they claimed...but would have been nice if there was a way to share/transfer licenses between the two....oh well, no big deal....haven't played it much in the last year anyway, hard to keep up with all the DLC:)

I agree with you a lot of people sunk a lot of money into RoF.. .. I would be only fair to let your customers that supported you in the beginning join the battles on Steam, without having to 'buy' all over again.

Quote from: Tuna on September 08, 2013, 10:50:51 AM

I agree with you a lot of people sunk a lot of money into RoF.. .. I would be only fair to let your customers that supported you in the beginning join the battles on Steam, without having to 'buy' all over again.

Are the people playing on Steam completely separated from multiplayer with the others??!!  Completely separate servers? :o 

Quote from: Nefaro on September 08, 2013, 11:25:03 AM

Quote from: Tuna on September 08, 2013, 10:50:51 AM

I agree with you a lot of people sunk a lot of money into RoF.. .. I would be only fair to let your customers that supported you in the beginning join the battles on Steam, without having to 'buy' all over again.

Are the people playing on Steam completely separated from multiplayer with the others??!!  Completely separate servers? :o

Players from steam and direct from the company can still play each other so that is not an issue....just can't cross purchases and such

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 08, 2013, 11:27:07 AM


Players from steam and direct from the company can still play each other so that is not an issue....just can't cross purchases and such

Oh, okay.  Thanks for clarifying.

I would be astonished if they kept their user base separated like that.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 08, 2013, 11:27:59 AM

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on September 08, 2013, 11:27:07 AM


Players from steam and direct from the company can still play each other so that is not an issue....just can't cross purchases and such

Oh, okay.  Thanks for clarifying.

I would be astonished if they kept their user base separated like that.

OK, that's cool then.. lol.. we should all go on some night and horrify the mp community!!.. are there free servers on Steam? Or do you have to go on the 'private' ones that people paid for on their own?

Put me in the gunners seat!

Quote from: Gusington on September 08, 2013, 12:57:50 PM
Put me in the gunners seat!

Well, Ive got an Airco DH4 with an empty gunners seat..........

I am a good gunner but you better be a good pilot Bawb...unlike another grog here who will go nameless and killed me more than once in fiery crashes while giving me an otherwise good tour of the battlefield. Road to ruin and all that...

It's a poor workman, who blames his tools.

True. The anonymous pilot who killed me was being kind by showing me around. Until things went south.

hmmmpf.. I was intentionally diving my plane into the ground because I did not want to spawn in the air.. and Gus chooses that moment to hop in back!

Now the other incident.. clouds.. well, nevermind..  :o

We had a few good bombing runs hurting the NME with SDR providing escort..

What's the multiplayer like, anyway?  Is it an open battlefield type of thing or pretty strict mission type of thing?

I've only played a little MP but it depends on the server and how much your friends want to stick to the issued mission.

Tuna I was keeping you anonymous! :)

Quote from: Nefaro on September 08, 2013, 03:28:59 PM
What's the multiplayer like, anyway?  Is it an open battlefield type of thing or pretty strict mission type of thing?

Depends on the Server you go on.. New Wings has three different flavors with different expertise (though I haven't bee on in awhile).. but it would have different missions with different objectives.. you could choose what you want to do. Bomb.. Dogfight.. Recon... can be fun with a group of people on TS together..

Quote from: Nefaro on September 08, 2013, 03:28:59 PM
What's the multiplayer like, anyway?  Is it an open battlefield type of thing or pretty strict mission type of thing?

Like Tuna says, it depends on the server.  There are two servers (Fast Food and Flying Circus) which offer a down and dirty dogfight environment.  These are referred to as "airquake" by some - it's basically one huge furball where death and success happen pretty frequently and getting back into the fight after death takes tens of seconds.

The two other most populated servers are "Syndicate" and "New Wings:Wargrounds".  Here you'll find a more leisurely pace, with missions set up for bombing, recon, and so on.  The downer is that you may fly for half an hour and not see anyone else - and you  may well be shot down by someone you didn't see after half an hour of nothing happening.  Then you have to respawn and spend ten minutes climbing to altitude before looking for another scrap.

Although this latter is my preferred MP experience, I can understand that others may well find it boring.

I would also say that it's well worth gaining a bit of SP experience before jumping online.

Good God man!  They want $40 for the base ROF game still, even 20% discounted?

For some reason, I thought they had a free-to-play package with a couple aircraft in it.   Bleh.. I should probably just wait until there's a big sale on the non-Steam version anyway.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 09, 2013, 07:45:58 AM
Good God man!  They want $40 for the base ROF game still, even 20% discounted?

For some reason, I thought they had a free-to-play package with a couple aircraft in it.   Bleh.. I should probably just wait until there's a big sale on the non-Steam version anyway.

Or a big sale on the Steam version. ;)

Quote from: Nefaro on September 09, 2013, 07:45:58 AM
Good God man!  They want $40 for the base ROF game still, even 20% discounted?

For some reason, I thought they had a free-to-play package with a couple aircraft in it.   Bleh.. I should probably just wait until there's a big sale on the non-Steam version anyway.

You can still get the F2P version direct from 777.  The one on Steam comes with the Channel map ($20) and 8 planes (+ the two "free" ones) so it's not that bad a deal

You guys need to be careful about paying full price for RoF products.  The single player isn't all that great, and with 777 moving on to Battle of Stalingrad, RoF is not going to be moving forward at a rapid pace; a lot of the player base will likely move on in the next year or so.

RoF: ICE edition is routinely on sale for $10 on numerous aviation game websites.  I'd keep your eye open for that, and then cherry pick planes from the 777 store when they go on sale (fairly routinely as well).

RoF has a pretty obnoxious online DRM, so I don't see any advantage to going the Steam route in this case TBH.

Quote from: Toonces on September 09, 2013, 12:43:01 PM
You guys need to be careful about paying full price for RoF products.  The single player isn't all that great, and with 777 moving on to Battle of Stalingrad, RoF is not going to be moving forward at a rapid pace; a lot of the player base will likely move on in the next year or so.

RoF: ICE edition is routinely on sale for $10 on numerous aviation game websites.  I'd keep your eye open for that, and then cherry pick planes from the 777 store when they go on sale (fairly routinely as well).

RoF has a pretty obnoxious online DRM, so I don't see any advantage to going the Steam route in this case TBH.

  Yep.  I moved on to CLOD and am looking forward to Battle of Stalingrad.  No more RoF for me.

How is CLOD these days? I avoided it because of all the horror stories but I'm starting to hear more positive things.

Awww well.  I folded and picked up the Steam version just because it has more for less.  The Iron Cross edition was on sale at Gamersgate.. but still $30.  ??? 

I thought ROF received some semblance of a dynamic single-player campaign?  That's the main reason I picked it up.  Did I just make a mistake?

Not that I know of.

Over Flanders' Fields (built on the bones of MS Combat Sim 3) is supposed to have a great SP campaign but I can't verify that.

ROF has a "beta career" that is a little bit of fun, but will not sustain you long term.  It's a random mission generator, but because of performance issues the generator is very skimpy on the number of planes it will generate; you might get 4v4 dogfights or something like that.  Also, it's not like OFF in that the enemy planes are spawned when you get close to the mission area.  They aren't doing their own missions all along like Falcon 4 or OFF. 

There is an add-on called Patrick Wilson's Campaign Generator that is better than the included career mode, but I had trouble getting it to work and I haven't tried it in several months.

Over Flanders Fields is a much stronger single player experience. 

I warned you that the RoF single player wasn't a good reason to buy RoF unless it was on a heavy sale, didn't I?   ::)

Quote from: Toonces on September 09, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
ROF has a "beta career" that is a little bit of fun, but will not sustain you long term.  It's a random mission generator, but because of performance issues the generator is very skimpy on the number of planes it will generate; you might get 4v4 dogfights or something like that.  Also, it's not like OFF in that the enemy planes are spawned when you get close to the mission area.  They aren't doing their own missions all along like Falcon 4 or OFF. 

There is an add-on called Patrick Wilson's Campaign Generator that is better than the included career mode, but I had trouble getting it to work and I haven't tried it in several months.

Over Flanders Fields is a much stronger single player experience. 

Crap. 

I've debated checking out OFF before, but people often mention it may not be worth it to everyone these days since CFS3 is so damn old (can you even purchase a digital download of it these days??) so it's looking pretty aged.

Has anyone tried the WWI flight sim from Third Wire?  I know those have dynamic campaigns like the other Third Wire stuff.  I just wonder how well the flight mechanics are working.  Some big pluses are NO DRM, a simple single installer download without a bunch of extra DLC crap to juggle, and being very mod-friendly even to the point where people have created completely new models of aircraft you can download.  What say you?

Quote
I warned you that the RoF single player wasn't a good reason to buy RoF unless it was on a heavy sale, didn't I?   ::)

I picked it up before seeing that.   :-[  While I wouldn't mind doing some multiplayer, I still play more singleplayer than anything.  If I want some team-based MP, I'll just go fly War Thunder for a bit because it's easy to get into constant action there.

Well, what I recommend is this:  normally I wouldn't refer a Groghead to another website, but in this case SimHQ is your friend.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3686260/Best_Current_WWI_Sim#Post3686260

These guys hash out the current crop of WW1 sims pretty well, and then around page 20 or 25 this dude puts up fantastic AARs that compare and contrast the various WW1 sims.

RoF probably has the weakest single player component, but the feeling of flying a WW1 biplane is unsurpassed, and the SP is kind of fun for a while.  I prefer OFF for campaign flying.  I haven't tried Thirdwire's but it sounds pretty fun as well.  I don't know if OFF is worth investing in with its next iteration due out sometime in the (hopefully) near future.

Since you already bought RoF, you might as well try it for a while.  You might like it better than I do.   ;)

Third wire First Eagles has good campaign. Semi dynamic. Missions are genersted based on the current status of the campaign. But plane selection is minimal.  Though ithe is very easy to put in some 3rd part planes.

Quote from: jomni on September 10, 2013, 01:15:58 AM
Third wire First Eagles has good campaign. Semi dynamic. Missions are genersted based on the current status of the campaign. But plane selection is minimal.  Though ithe is very easy to put in some 3rd part planes.

Thanks.  That's exactly what I would expect from the Third Wire title.  Perhaps I'll look into that soon, especially since I have no qualms about throwing money at TK's outfit.  Been having fun with some of the SF2 titles and it having absolutely no DRM is tops.  The price of entry isn't too bad either, IIRC.

I'll have to browse the mod site and see what extra planes have been created.  I recall seeing a few having been done, the last time I was browsing the hordes of new SF2 plane mods, but not near as many as that other series.  If I can have around six different ones, then I should be good to go.

Quote from: Toonces on September 09, 2013, 11:06:17 PM

RoF probably has the weakest single player component, but the feeling of flying a WW1 biplane is unsurpassed, and the SP is kind of fun for a while.  I prefer OFF for campaign flying.  I haven't tried Thirdwire's but it sounds pretty fun as well.  I don't know if OFF is worth investing in with its next iteration due out sometime in the (hopefully) near future.

Since you already bought RoF, you might as well try it for a while.  You might like it better than I do.   ;)

I didn't realize there was a new OFF coming out sometime in the future.  That would be something to look forward to.

I'll probably tinker with ROF, since I bought it, but I was really itching for a somewhat dynamic campaign most of all.  So I'll save it for when I get a multiplayer itch.

RoF still wins for best graphics and flight experience.

Quote from: jomni on September 10, 2013, 04:15:38 AM
RoF still wins for best graphics and flight experience.

I gotta admit, what little I played of it before was beautiful.  I don't really care about having to jockey the fuel mixture, or other such engine management crap while in-flight however.  I think you also gotta manually jockey the radiator too don't you?  Meh.. minutae which I don't really care to bother with if I don't have to.

My only concern is whether the flight models feel okay.  ROF seemed okay, although I recall being all over the place with the joystick even in level flight.  Sure, it's not fly-by-wire but I have some vague memory of fighting the thing like crazy the whole time I was flying, like it was constantly trying to roll over & go into a complete nose dive.  Don't recall I was flying (IIRC it was just default for the training mission) but it was a pain in the ass.

I'm also still tempted to get First Eagles 2 just because it's so easy to set up and play compared to most flight sims these days.  Sure, it's older and the ground textures look like ass but it's about as hassle-free as it gets, and has a dynamic campaign to boot.  So if my ROF experience doesn't pan out, I may jump ship rather quickly.  :D

Quote from: Staggerwing on September 09, 2013, 06:42:44 PM
How is CLOD these days? I avoided it because of all the horror stories but I'm starting to hear more positive things.

It is working very well.  See SimHQ for details.

WOFF is in Beta status already.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2013, 07:12:40 AM

My only concern is whether the flight models feel okay.  ROF seemed okay, although I recall being all over the place with the joystick even in level flight.  Sure, it's not fly-by-wire but I have some vague memory of fighting the thing like crazy the whole time I was flying, like it was constantly trying to roll over & go into a complete nose dive.  Don't recall I was flying (IIRC it was just default for the training mission) but it was a pain in the ass.

The difficulty here is - are you saying that the FM is "wrong" or that it is  "too difficult"?  I would suggest that the RoF FMs are broadly correct (forums are as full of debate on this as any flight sim) so your struggles are realistic.  If you can be bothered, try altering the response curves in RoF.  This will make the planes more amenable and yet less individual.

Quote from: Father Ted on September 10, 2013, 07:06:15 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2013, 07:12:40 AM

My only concern is whether the flight models feel okay.  ROF seemed okay, although I recall being all over the place with the joystick even in level flight.  Sure, it's not fly-by-wire but I have some vague memory of fighting the thing like crazy the whole time I was flying, like it was constantly trying to roll over & go into a complete nose dive.  Don't recall I was flying (IIRC it was just default for the training mission) but it was a pain in the ass.

The difficulty here is - are you saying that the FM is "wrong" or that it is  "too difficult"?  I would suggest that the RoF FMs are broadly correct (forums are as full of debate on this as any flight sim) so your struggles are realistic.  If you can be bothered, try altering the response curves in RoF.  This will make the planes more amenable and yet less individual.

No.. it's more like the joystick sensitivity is too high.  I switched the pitch axis to an S-curve and it helped some, but it can still be troublesome due to the nature of having an S-curve instead of a straight one. 

This is one type of customization tweaking, in many modern flight sims, that takes up so much time.  I feel as if I'm screwing with the settings more than playing, and with some titles I can never get it just right.  >:(

I think one thing that can help is if you are not flying at full throttle..

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2013, 07:48:25 PM
This is one type of customization tweaking, in many modern flight sims, that takes up so much time.  I feel as if I'm screwing with the settings more than playing, and with some titles I can never get it just right.  >:(

I appreciate that, but RoF is just so great IMO that I'll offer one final bit of advice...

As well as using S curves, try moving the centre of the pitch curve down.  You can do this in flight via options and the idea is to move the curve until your chosen plane is flying level when the stick is centred at say 80% throttle.  For me this made a huge difference to the usability of most of the planes when it comes to fighting.

Purists will say that you're diluting the experience of flying things like the Camel and Dr1 by doing this, but I think that really you're compensating for not having a FFB stick.

Quote from: Father Ted on September 11, 2013, 05:33:17 AM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2013, 07:48:25 PM
This is one type of customization tweaking, in many modern flight sims, that takes up so much time.  I feel as if I'm screwing with the settings more than playing, and with some titles I can never get it just right.  >:(

I appreciate that, but RoF is just so great IMO that I'll offer one final bit of advice...

As well as using S curves, try moving the centre of the pitch curve down.  You can do this in flight via options and the idea is to move the curve until your chosen plane is flying level when the stick is centred at say 80% throttle.  For me this made a huge difference to the usability of most of the planes when it comes to fighting.

Purists will say that you're diluting the experience of flying things like the Camel and Dr1 by doing this, but I think that really you're compensating for not having a FFB stick.

That's a good tip.  I may give that a shot sometime.  Having carpal tunnel, it can get painful babysitting it, after awhile.  However, it's not so much keeping pitch in check as it is compensating for roll.  Although my HOTAS has a big rocker switch that can be used as a rudder control, it's usually pretty hamfisted so I generally use the joy twist and that can be murderous for ye olde nerve pain.  Looks like tweaking the rocker will be added to the list.

I still have yet to do more tweaking to all the joystick settings.  The S-curve definitely helped on the pitch sensitivity but I'll probably have to tweak even more before it's in a comfortable spot.  I've not even touched the other axes.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 11, 2013, 06:24:07 AM
However, it's not so much keeping pitch in check as it is compensating for roll.  Although my HOTAS has a big rocker switch that can be used as a rudder control, it's usually pretty hamfisted so I generally use the joy twist and that can be murderous for ye olde nerve pain.  Looks like tweaking the rocker will be added to the list.

I still have yet to do more tweaking to all the joystick settings.  The S-curve definitely helped on the pitch sensitivity but I'll probably have to tweak even more before it's in a comfortable spot.  I've not even touched the other axes.

Are you sure that you didn't mean compensating for yaw, not roll? Your joystick twist is for rudder(yaw) control, not roll. Your joystick X axis is used to control roll. You should be using rudder pedals anyway, as that will alleviate some of the pain from using the joystick.

Also, are you calibrating your joystick within Windows before you start flying for the first time? Allegedly, you're not supposed to have to calibrate anymore, but I've found sometimes that if you don't, your controls may off a bit.

As to manually controlling the radiator and fuel mixture, that is optional. I believe they are disabled by default, and you have to actually go into the game settings to enable them. There are also other settings to help out if you're not comfy with the full realism thang.

As to their DRM, it's not been a pain in my experience. I don't know why toonces has such a problem with it. You only have to log in "online" to get updates or new planes. Any other time you start the game, you can log in "offline", which just launches you right into the game without connecting to the server.

In order to fly the career beta offline, you have to log on online.  So in order to enjoy portions of the single player game, like the campaign, which is about all I play in RoF, you have to be connected to their server.

And remain connected.

So it is a big deal.

And you HAVE to update when you launch the game.  I hate that.  Especially to play offline. 

I think that is obnoxious.

Quote from: Father Ted on September 11, 2013, 05:33:17 AM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 10, 2013, 07:48:25 PM
This is one type of customization tweaking, in many modern flight sims, that takes up so much time.  I feel as if I'm screwing with the settings more than playing, and with some titles I can never get it just right.  >:(

I appreciate that, but RoF is just so great IMO that I'll offer one final bit of advice...

As well as using S curves, try moving the centre of the pitch curve down.  You can do this in flight via options and the idea is to move the curve until your chosen plane is flying level when the stick is centred at say 80% throttle.  For me this made a huge difference to the usability of most of the planes when it comes to fighting.

Purists will say that you're diluting the experience of flying things like the Camel and Dr1 by doing this, but I think that really you're compensating for not having a FFB stick.

Interesting. I need to experiment with my settings as well. This is something that's been giving me a lot of trouble - just trying to hold a stable flight is hard work. As it stands, shooting something else down is proving to be be just about impossible.

Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on September 11, 2013, 11:23:46 AM

Quote from: Nefaro on September 11, 2013, 06:24:07 AM
However, it's not so much keeping pitch in check as it is compensating for roll.  Although my HOTAS has a big rocker switch that can be used as a rudder control, it's usually pretty hamfisted so I generally use the joy twist and that can be murderous for ye olde nerve pain.  Looks like tweaking the rocker will be added to the list.

I still have yet to do more tweaking to all the joystick settings.  The S-curve definitely helped on the pitch sensitivity but I'll probably have to tweak even more before it's in a comfortable spot.  I've not even touched the other axes.

Are you sure that you didn't mean compensating for yaw, not roll? Your joystick twist is for rudder(yaw) control, not roll. Your joystick X axis is used to control roll. You should be using rudder pedals anyway, as that will alleviate some of the pain from using the joystick.

Yes, I meant yaw.  Rudder.  It's often one of the touchier ones which I can't quite get set to my liking.  I don't plan on dropping another eighty or ninety bucks on a set of rudder pedals since I've spent about two-hundred on a HOTAS and TrackIR earlier this year.  While I enjoy flight sims, I also only play them in small spurts so can't justify spending more on hardware just now.  It would be nice, but I'm hitting the brakes on flight sim hardware purchases for awhile.  ;) 

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Also, are you calibrating your joystick within Windows before you start flying for the first time? Allegedly, you're not supposed to have to calibrate anymore, but I've found sometimes that if you don't, your controls may off a bit.

No, I don't have to calibrate this HOTAS system.  It's always dead center, unlike one of the cheapies I have sitting around somewhere that always needed some tinkering. I also thankfully don't need any dead zone in the one I use.  It's been a huge improvement over the cheapies, and I'm quite happy I picked it up.  Wasn't too pricey either.

Quote

As to manually controlling the radiator and fuel mixture, that is optional. I believe they are disabled by default, and you have to actually go into the game settings to enable them. There are also other settings to help out if you're not comfy with the full realism thang.

As to their DRM, it's not been a pain in my experience. I don't know why toonces has such a problem with it. You only have to log in "online" to get updates or new planes. Any other time you start the game, you can log in "offline", which just launches you right into the game without connecting to the server.

Good to know about the engine management stuff.   

The game itself is quite nice.  It will just take some time for me to screw with the settings so that I'm comfortable with them.  Most sims' joystick axes don't utilize all that much of the joystick range.  I feel they often ramp up sensitivity too quickly and then leave some of the furtheest ranges from center unused.  Yet I'm wary of pushing the sensitivity off the scale, so that the highest parts are unreachable, in the odd case I may feel the need to jam it to eleven.

For some reason, the simple "joystick sensitivity" slider in the Third Wire games, and it's joy sensitivity in general, handles much better.  There's not one axis that feels out of proportion and the sensitivity doesn't start out excessive by default.  This is probably just personal preference for the most part, but it's something I need to tweak into my comfort zone to enjoy a flight sim.  That takes more time with some titles than others. 

I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

Quote from: jomni on September 11, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

Perhaps you, too, needed to adjust joystick sensitivity so that even small movements of the stick doesn't jerk your plane all over?  :P

That sounded kinda filthy.  ???

I have never adjusted sensitivity in any Sim. Third wire, Falcon, DCS, FSX, X-Plane. Too lazy.   ;)

Quote from: jomni on September 11, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
I have never shot anything down on ROF.  And I lost interest really quickly because of that.

Yeah but you don't shoot anything down in FSX and you're ALWAYS playing that  :D

Same boat here though...can't shoot a damned thing and gave up - purely because of that. It's a great sim and the flying and feel is fantastic - but it's no fun flying a crate that shoots stuff but you simply can't.

You guys should hop on the New Wings tutorial server.  I'm sure some of the guys there can walk you through gunnery and have you hitting targets in no time.

If you're really getting frustrated (which it sounds like you are) consider trying late war rides.  I'm pretty sure I flew a 1918 bird once that had incendiary ammo and that is far more effective than normal bullets.

Surprisingly, most of the other axes were fine on default.  It's just the pitch axis that was so touchy. 

Yet some of these aircraft types have some ridiculous flight characteristics.  I can understand the torque forcing your aircraft to roll one way, and some of the extra pitch.  However, flying the Nieuport 28 just made me shake my head.  The natural pitch upward is just insane!  I was curious just how much forward joystick I would have to use to negate it, and it turned out to be approximately 36% !!!  Yes, Precious, that's pushing forward one-third of your pitch range just to keep it flying somewhat level! 

Makes me wonder just how exaggerated some of these effects are for some of these aircraft.  You'd think the aerodynamic design of the plane would have some accommodation for such extreme side effects.   I suppose this has been the topic of constant debate in ROF circles?  I know it should be there.. but it was pretty crazy in the N28 example.  I didn't see it to such extent in the others that come with the base pack.  ???

Ultimately, I couldn't move the axis curve to compensate anywhere near as much as it needed.  Moving it so far in one direction cuts off too much axis range at the other end so pulling back with that much adjustment would never reach the top end of the curve.  :-\


I've had some fun with the DVII, Albatross DV, and the SPADXIII thus far.  Those are pretty fun, although I have a tendency to put the SPAD into a spin when diving to the right sometimes.  The SE5a is okay but I tend to get outmaneuvered too much so I need to figure out it's strengths.   Ze German ones are definitely more forgiving.

Quote from: Nefaro on September 12, 2013, 01:41:24 PM
Surprisingly, most of the other axes were fine on default.  It's just the pitch axis that was so touchy. 

Yet some of these aircraft types have some ridiculous flight characteristics.  I can understand the torque forcing your aircraft to roll one way, and some of the extra pitch.  However, flying the Nieuport 28 just made me shake my head.  The natural pitch upward is just insane!  I was curious just how much forward joystick I would have to use to negate it, and it turned out to be approximately 36% !!!  Yes, Precious, that's pushing forward one-third of your pitch range just to keep it flying somewhat level! 

Makes me wonder just how exaggerated some of these effects are for some of these aircraft.  You'd think the aerodynamic design of the plane would have some accommodation for such extreme side effects.   I suppose this has been the topic of constant debate in ROF circles?  I know it should be there.. but it was pretty crazy in the N28 example.  I didn't see it to such extent in the others that come with the base pack.  ???

Ultimately, I couldn't move the axis curve to compensate anywhere near as much as it needed.  Moving it so far in one direction cuts off too much axis range at the other end so pulling back with that much adjustment would never reach the top end of the curve.  :-\


I've had some fun with the DVII, Albatross DV, and the SPADXIII thus far.  Those are pretty fun, although I have a tendency to put the SPAD into a spin when diving to the right sometimes.  The SE5a is okay but I tend to get outmaneuvered too much so I need to figure out it's strengths.   Ze German ones are definitely more forgiving.

  You can set the trim on these.  that might help.  I'm off to Stalingrad, comrade.

It occurs to me that the N28 might have been especially tail draggy? That would push the nose up more than expected.

Still, why wouldn't designers or even field mechanics rig a fix, even a crooked stick that pushed forward in actuality at level flight for the pilot?

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 12, 2013, 02:27:51 PM
It occurs to me that the N28 might have been especially tail draggy? That would push the nose up more than expected.

Still, why wouldn't designers or even field mechanics rig a fix, even a crooked stick that pushed forward in actuality at level flight for the pilot?

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

The thing is.. many biplane wings of the time were slanted downward toward the rear.  So that should give it a natural nose-down tendency, along with the extra flap-like lift and air resistance, the faster they go.  My first guess would be to help offset such things as the upward engine force.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 12, 2013, 02:27:51 PM

The end result either way would certainly be a plane that didn't naturally dive well (because the ailrons or wing warping couldn't be pushed far enough) except at lower engine speeds.

Wing warping (and ailerons) are for rolling the plane. The elevator is for adjusting pitch up and down, and the rudder for yaw.

(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi915.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac351%2F2004KID%2FRoll_Pitch_Yaw.jpg&hash=bf7398fc94f490ef6b225a1123a9adad86fcbc32)

Been enjoying this, after getting used to the controls.  I still have to push nose-down quite a bit in most aircraft, but I'll get over it because these old crates are interesting to fly.  Kinda nice not having to have my head down, punching buttons in the cockpit all the time.  Just a stick and trigger and the pretty scenery.  :D

I've not started a Career yet.  Been getting used to some of the aircraft in quick missions and the 'Fly Now' thing.   Since I picked up the Albatross D.III pack, I'll probably start a German career soon since the Albatrosses and the Fokker D.VII don't have much in the way of weird stalling tendencies & recovery methods. 

While I did so-so in a quick mission with the Camel, a near stall at very low altitude scared the corn right out of me.  Although I stopped it by a hair, halfway into it and I'm not all that sure with the stick controls yet.  It also felt quite difficult to steady the nose for a good shot.. not very stable for me, in a slow steady turn or flying straight.  I do enjoy flying the SPADs.  I find the biggest difficulty is keeping sight of an enemy around me while still trying to keep the orientation of my plane in mind.  Even with a TrackIR, it's difficult to get a feel for where I'm heading and how close to stalling I am while trying to keep sight of the enemy in a dogfight.  Especially in a climb or dive. Which is where such energy fighters gotta be quite often.  The lack of the sensation of motion means I gotta be looking forward more than I'd like, instead of keeping eyes on the target.  Which regularly results in losing sight of the target when I keep glance back & forth, and that's absolutely no good in a dogfight.  Fortunately, I've nearly tweaked my TrackIR profile quite well so it's a bit easier to glance about but no amount of tweaking will help you get the feel of movement to help you keep your head locked on the enemy plane.  That's the toughest thing to learn in these flight sims.

I can't believe I mixed up ailerons and elevators...  >:( Clearly I've been away from flight sims for waaaaaaay too long.

Nef, I have a theory that for twitchy aircraft it's better not to focus on the enemy, i.e. don't keep your head locked on the enemy plane, but mostly watch where you're flying with occasional head movements (via controls or IR or whatever) to check what the enemy is doing.

Like in real life: first, fly the plane. When you're good enough at that you'll naturally feel comfortable not looking where you're going (but extrapolating from where you're looking at), then keep track of the enemy with occasional lookbacks to your flight path. (Reversing the original idea.)

But in any case, don't lock on an enemy unless he's in the direction you're trying to fly. If you're trying to fly left to do a maneuver to eat up some space/speed as part of an S-curve to bring your enemy in front of you or otherwise break his tailing, don't track your enemy right or behind you, look ahead with occasional checks. But if your enemy is to the left and you're trying to catch up by flying to the left, then track the enemy if you've learned the plane's quirks enough to avoid problems doing so.

Quote from: JasonPratt on September 18, 2013, 08:14:47 AM
I can't believe I mixed up ailerons and elevators...  >:( Clearly I've been away from flight sims for waaaaaaay too long.

Nef, I have a theory that for twitchy aircraft it's better not to focus on the enemy, i.e. don't keep your head locked on the enemy plane, but mostly watch where you're flying with occasional head movements (via controls or IR or whatever) to check what the enemy is doing.

Like in real life: first, fly the plane. When you're good enough at that you'll naturally feel comfortable not looking where you're going (but extrapolating from where you're looking at), then keep track of the enemy with occasional lookbacks to your flight path. (Reversing the original idea.)

But in any case, don't lock on an enemy unless he's in the direction you're trying to fly. If you're trying to fly left to do a maneuver to eat up some space/speed as part of an S-curve to bring your enemy in front of you or otherwise break his tailing, don't track your enemy right or behind you, look ahead with occasional checks. But if your enemy is to the left and you're trying to catch up by flying to the left, then track the enemy if you've learned the plane's quirks enough to avoid problems doing so.

That's what I've currently been doing, out of necessity.   I wouldn't mind at all, but I lose sight of the enemy aircraft more often than I'd like.  Especially if I'm doing something such as a displacement roll - up, out, over, and back in.  Luckily the little red arrows still point out the general direction he's in while you're looking forward.  That still doesn't help you see where he's doing, which is quite handy.

I've thought about using the Padlock anyway, despite having TrackIR, just so I can quickly snap my view on him and then back to the TrackIR.  I tend to have problems looking towards my rear while doing anything more than lazy flat turns, with TrackIR, just because my head is partially turned while I'm trying to work the joystick all over and it gets to be a bit disorienting while trying to juggle so much without any sense of motion that you would normally rely on.   

There are some possible issues with combining Padlock and TrackIR.  For one, I'm not sure how well Padlock will behave while my TrackIR is running, if it does at all.  It should be fine, since it's technically locked in place on the target but it could also cause issues when I turn it back off - maybe just some disorientation from switching back to head movement controls.  The other is that I'm not even sure if it's a toggle, or if I have to hit a different view key to turn it back over to normal view.  Both should be fine, as long as Padlock works while TIR is on.  Best of both worlds!  Yet more tweaking in hopes I can get it just how we wantss it.   

I don't remember having such problems keeping track of enemies back when I was playing Red Baron (1) on my first PC.

Does anyone know if there's a regularly populated ROF multi-player server that doesn't run with fuel mixture and manual radiator controls on?

Was thinking of getting ROF all mapped out and relearned in order to do some multi-player.  Probably not as big of a deal if I put the time into mapping & learning it, but I'd rather concentrate on the rest.  Realistic flight models and all that jazz are what I want.. just not having to jockey an extra lever or two while flying, since I'd have to use the keyboard for them.  As if I need yet more key & joystick remapping.  Such engine management is ZzzzZ anyway, so I normally turn it off. 

Is there such an MP server?

Yes. 

New Wings: Novice Battlegrounds.

I spent 3 hours downloading the demo and then found out I needed a joystick to play the game. Bummer!

Not a big flight sim fan but did like what it looked like for the WW1 aerial combat and was hoping it was more arcade like War Thunder.  Maybe one day I'll break down and purchase a joystick when I have some real time to invest in learning to fly planes.

Quote from: Nefaro on April 12, 2014, 03:21:23 PM
Does anyone know if there's a regularly populated ROF multi-player server that doesn't run with fuel mixture and manual radiator controls on?

Was thinking of getting ROF all mapped out and relearned in order to do some multi-player.  Probably not as big of a deal if I put the time into mapping & learning it, but I'd rather concentrate on the rest.  Realistic flight models and all that jazz are what I want.. just not having to jockey an extra lever or two while flying, since I'd have to use the keyboard for them.  As if I need yet more key & joystick remapping.  Such engine management is ZzzzZ anyway, so I normally turn it off. 

Is there such an MP server?

IF a plane has a radiator, you can probably just safely open it all the way and you'd be safe for the flight... Though in a long dive you're supposed to close it.. though if we're on a long dive, we're usually dying anyways...

Mixture just go to the top and drop it a notch or two... if you go way up, then you can gradually drop it more, listen to the sound of the engine..

But they are both not something you really need to 'worry' about during a fight, as long as the Radiator is open  ;).

One thing I do like on the add ons is the thermometers you can be reassured when you see you're not in the red...

Can Steam Players go on the same servers as non Steam?

Only thing I usually have problems with exceeding engine RPMs and burning out the motor. 

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 12, 2014, 04:29:55 PM
Only thing I usually have problems with exceeding engine RPMs and burning out the motor.

Yeah same here, that is something you have to pay attention to!

Just a pro-tip for fuel and radiator:

For the radiator, check 6 and look at your smoke.  If there is a ton of white smoke coming out, you need to adjust up or down. 

For mixture, I think you go full rich low, and lean up high.  But if you just pick something in the middle you're probably doing ok.

Don't sweat it too much. 

Quote from: Toonces on April 12, 2014, 05:40:07 PM
Just a pro-tip for fuel and radiator:

For the radiator, check 6 and look at your smoke.  If there is a ton of white smoke coming out, you need to adjust up or down. 

For mixture, I think you go full rich low, and lean up high.  But if you just pick something in the middle you're probably doing ok.

Don't sweat it too much.

Yeah, you wanna go richer at lower altitudes since there is more oxygen down low (so it doesn't need as much mixed in) and leaner at higher altitudes.  The devil is probably in the fine adjustments though.

Not sure about the details of manual radiator handling other than making sure you don't let the temperature get too high.  I think that if it gets low, however, your engine isn't being as efficient.  Haven't heard the smoke suggestion before.. interesting.

My problem with doing this stuff is that I can be OCD about such things, so it will drive me absolutely nuts.  If I enable these options, I will constantly obsess about it.  Then it will get frustrating because I can't ever "get it just right" at any one moment and the adjustments will never feel fine enough for my tastes.  I'm not too worried about learning it (although having to tweak yet more bindings & such is never welcome) but would like to save myself the obsession, at least until everything else is second nature.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 12, 2014, 03:56:26 PM
Yes. 

New Wings: Novice Battlegrounds.

Thanks SDR!  Sounds like a good place to start.

I've not played ROF since last year, especially since getting sucked into the WOFF single-player campaign.  But I would like to start being shot at by human opponents on occasion.  So I'll have to get all my settings & hardware set up on my newer computer and get back up to speed.  Good to know I can probably get into it faster with this recommendation.

As a single player simmer I'd take WOFF any day. ROF is the best choice for those who want to multi play though.

Quote from: TacticalWargames on April 12, 2014, 09:04:54 PM
As a single player simmer I'd take WOFF any day. ROF is the best choice for those who want to multi play though.

Absolutely.

I'll probably have a hard time just firing up ROF, to get reacquainted, because I so enjoy the single-player campaign in WOFF.  But if I plan to do some multi-player flying, I'll have to do it sometime.

Was actually just installing the latest DX9 and News mod for WOFF so I'll probably be sucked into that for awhile again.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 12, 2014, 03:56:26 PM
Yes. 

New Wings: Novice Battlegrounds.

I would however say that the only servers with  reasonable numbers are Flying Circus and NW: Wargrounds (or Syndicate).  As others have pointed out, the mixture/radiator thing is pretty straightforward, so it's worth giving it a go if you want to fly on populated servers.

Played with Mixture and Radiator controls on this evening.  Mixture wasn't a big deal thus far, especially since you don't often end up flying at high altitudes in ROF.  I just turned it down a few notches after start-up and only needed a very minor adjustment once when I did get a little extra altitude, and that was only to squeeze a slight bit of extra RPMs out. 

As for using the radiator, I dunno yet.  I mostly only flew allied planes tonight, and I didn't notice any radiator controls with them.  So I just made sure I used the command for opening the radiator before I started up and left it.  I did fly an Albatros D.III but also didn't notice the lever move when I opened it so *shrug*.  The auto mixture and auto radiator stuff was turned off in the mission settings so I dunno what was up with the radiator lever not working on that one.

For those pilots out there looking to expand their content...received this in email today....50% sale.

Dear Pilots,
A big anniversary for Rise of Flight is getting closer and closer as we're about to celebrate 5 years since the day our project was released on the global market. That's quite an achievement for our plucky little WWI sim!

The fun of flying wing-to-wing and with our unique WWI atmosphere is still there! The anniversary day is May 7th, but we are going to start the celebration a little early. So we're launching a big 50% sale for all of the ROF store content. As always it's a great opportunity to get the planes and modifications you want most and to invite your fellow flight sim lovers to join the game's universe while it's so affordable.

The sale will last for 14 days (from April 25th till May 8th) and will cover both riseofflight.com and Steam.

Check out the SALE prices now and join the BIG anniversary sale in Rise of Flight.
________________________________________

I loved this sim...loved the look, loved the feel, bought almost all content - up to the point I realised I wasn't going to get any good at it. I just couldn't hit a barn door with those aircraft and I couldn't fly them nearly as good as the AI was, so I could never seem to get on the tai - and when I did - refer to my initial point.

I wanted to love it. Spent enough money on it to prove that, just wasn't any good at it!

Quote from: JudgeDredd on April 26, 2014, 05:51:25 AM
I loved this sim...loved the look, loved the feel, bought almost all content - up to the point I realised I wasn't going to get any good at it. I just couldn't hit a barn door with those aircraft and I couldn't fly them nearly as good as the AI was, so I could never seem to get on the tai - and when I did - refer to my initial point.

I wanted to love it. Spent enough money on it to prove that, just wasn't any good at it!

Pretty much my experience as well....I remember only buying the base game for $19 and how awesome it was just to fly around and such.....but like you, I couldn't shoot a darn thing and then all the add-ons came and just couldn't keep up anymore.

I bought into WOFF and although I haven't played in awhile, actually thought that was better suited for me, better price and much better single player campaign mode....still can't shoot much, but still had some fun with it.  Some day I will get back to it.

I'm total crap at dogfighting as well and thus it's just not fun. I did get the Channel map and the big anphib (Felixstowe) with which I flew around quite a bit enjoying the scenery and trying out all the crew positions so I got my money's worth out of the base game and those add ons but all the other crates are just wasted on me.

Maybe I'll try out the DH4 again and then pretend I'm flying a mail route or something...

It finally clicked with me once I got my joystick set up well enough and started getting some practice, along with a few video tutorials & tips.

I think flying in WOFF is a bit easier to do since the aircraft controls don't push the nose up so damn far.  I would've shot my mechanics if they hadn't trimmed the wires in the shop to offset that craziness.  Anyway.. I moved the response curve down about 15% to offset most of it and tweaked an S-Curve to make the smaller early joystick movements be more precise.  It's a lot of tweaking but it's nearly there in ROF.

WOFF was easier since it's sensitivity/response settings are just a 0-200 rating system and the controls a bit more evenly precise.  I lowered most of those downward (other than Roll which went up) and put some time into it.  The campaign itself is brutal regarding how deadly it can be, but I can still reliably shoot down one or two planes per entanglement in that one.

Quote from: Father Ted on October 25, 2014, 06:09:49 PM
Ahhhh...Lovely RoF.  Do give MP a go Nef - that's when the game really comes alive.

I greatly enjoyed my multi-player time in ROF yesterday, despite always getting murderized shortly after getting a kill.  :))


There are some things that still annoy me, however:

1) Joystick Pitch settings are reverted to default in MP.  I really hate constantly pushing forward so damn far to stay level.  It gets very painful after awhile.  Fortunately the Auto-Level command still works so the carpal tunnel can get an occasional break.

The joystick pitch and yew controls are already too sensitive and the fix is just a poor trade-off, so this just piles it on.  I heard IL2:BOS uses the same overly sensitive stick controls so that doesn't bode well.

2) Upward view is restricted.  I can't even look upward a full 90 degrees, ROF has an artificial limit. 

No matter which cardinal direction I'm facing, I still can't look directly up so I end up having to first look up and then rotate my head back & forth to try to see something directly above me.  Instead of just looking straight up at it.  This screws with my TrackIR usage and my awareness in a dogfight takes a hit.  ANGRY.  >:(


Despite these setbacks, I put a lot of time in yesterday.  Didn't do all that amazing but gave what I got in nearly all the Full Realism matches so I don't feel like a complete waste of space.  Still, between the joystick pitch forced to default and the overly restricted upward view, I would've had a better go.

I may eventually pick up IL2:BOS for some multi-player but hopefully some of these annoyances (and any new ones) get ironed out in the future before I do so.  In the meantime, ROF will do fine.

Glad you gave it a go and had some fun.  Sounds like you did better than I usually do - a kill is a big event in my online rofverse!

I have to say that I don't experience either of the two annoyances you mention.  Admittedly I don't switch between SP and MP very often, but my curve settings don't seem to alter when I do.  Maybe there's been an update since you last played?

TIR use seems natural for me.  I use Requiem's profile which I got from http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051 (http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051).

Quote from: Father Ted on October 27, 2014, 05:13:33 PM
Glad you gave it a go and had some fun.  Sounds like you did better than I usually do - a kill is a big event in my online rofverse!

Must've been beginner's luck.  For some reason I can actually hit stuff long enough to kill them in a Pfalz D.IIIa, but my gunnery skills haven't been so decisive in other types.  Also a pain playing on Full Realism, mostly due to spotting issues.  I could turn of all anti-aliasing to help but I just loathe too many jagged straight edges in my games. 

Nevertheless, it's fun.

Did a little bombing & strafing in a Halberstadt CL.II two-seater today.  That was a nice change of pace.  I don't own the DFW C.V.  Not sure how many extra bombs it could carry over the CL.II. 

QuoteI have to say that I don't experience either of the two annoyances you mention.  Admittedly I don't switch between SP and MP very often, but my curve settings don't seem to alter when I do.  Maybe there's been an update since you last played?

TIR use seems natural for me.  I use Requiem's profile which I got from http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051 (http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12051).

The joystick curve settings may have just been my own reverting to default, although I believe there may be a specific option for this in server settings.  Dunno.  I seem to get different results depending on the specific server I'm on.

My biggest complaint is the view limit when looking upward.  My TrackIR works great for me.  I've spent a LOT of time tweaking the TIR settings.  But ROF has a hard limit on looking straight upward that screws up my dogfight awareness.  This upward looking limit doesn't exist in other sims I use so it's troublesome here. 

I pretty much lose sight of anyone passing me while I'm turning because my view is stopped cold by the internal game setting.  Instead of my eyes transitioning smoothly around me, I get blocked and then have to concentrate on spinning my head/TIR in an odd fashion to get it to shift rearward.  Can be frustrating because my situational awareness suffers in dogfights due to this arbitrarily set limit.  I actually have a soft limit set on my own but this one hits long before.


EDIT:  Either way, I've been flying it a lot in multi-player lately.  Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running.  :buck2:

I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 28, 2014, 01:17:16 AM
I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

It's because of the way they modelled the flight stick controls.

Those old birds didn't have centering detents or big springs on their sticks, like our PC hardware does.  The developers obviously made some choices as to how they would model the stick handling, and I think they were generally bad.  Pushing your stick forward of your center detent position, while still turning in a dogfight to aim, just doesn't make sense.  Having your center detent position correspond to full level flight speed would make more sense, as that is where a pilot would be holding his stick "by default" when flying straight & level.  Not pushing forward 15 to 20 percent just to keep it level or to turn slower.  ::)  The translation from a loose wire pulley system to our modern centering spring hardware could've been better.

The sensitivity scale is also troublesome.  I hear that since it's a 1:1 ratio, our joysticks will be far too sensitive because they're so much shorter than the old sticks that are FAR longer from the floor of the aircraft (thus offering a wider range of motion with more precision).  Unfortunately, we can't adjust the ratios in the game settings to match our sticks, so you gotta mess with the curves and make trade-offs.  It takes a long time to adjust to the wonky control scheme in ROF, and it takes a long time to get accustomed to it.

Despite these problems, I've been playing a lot of multi-player lately and having a blast.  Even a rare kill.  Frustrating at times, but it's also extremely fun when a Full Realism server gets fairly well populated and things are going boom.  If I get sick of my poor gunnery skills, I'll jump in a 2-seater and go do some Recon or Bombing.   

Quote from: Nefaro on October 27, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running.  :buck2:

Coming back to RoF after spending a lot of time with WOFF can make this especially hard. You suddenly once again have to pay real attention to engine management , and make sure your needle does not *touch* the dreaded 1600 RPM.  You can push your engines ridiculously hard in WOFF, so much so that I never really even think about it.  You can also do acrobatics in WOFF that would snap your plane in two in RoF. 

...still, I find WOFF way, way harder than RoF!  But that's because I stick to SP... maybe I should give RoF MP a go.

I find the Pfalz D.III an underrated little gem, btw -- much prefer it to the Albatros, actually.

Quote from: Nefaro on October 28, 2014, 09:16:46 AM

Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 28, 2014, 01:17:16 AM
I couldn't hit anything in Rise of Flight. I loved it and the look...just really bad at flying and shooting in those crates.

It's because of the way they modelled the flight stick controls.

Those old birds didn't have centering detents or big springs on their sticks, like our PC hardware does.  The developers obviously made some choices as to how they would model the stick handling, and I think they were generally bad.  Pushing your stick forward of your center detent position, while still turning in a dogfight to aim, just doesn't make sense.  Having your center detent position correspond to full level flight speed would make more sense, as that is where a pilot would be holding his stick "by default" when flying straight & level.  Not pushing forward 15 to 20 percent just to keep it level or to turn slower.  ::)  The translation from a loose wire pulley system to our modern centering spring hardware could've been better.

The sensitivity scale is also troublesome.  I hear that since it's a 1:1 ratio, our joysticks will be far too sensitive because they're so much shorter than the old sticks that are FAR longer from the floor of the aircraft (thus offering a wider range of motion with more precision).  Unfortunately, we can't adjust the ratios in the game settings to match our sticks, so you gotta mess with the curves and make trade-offs.  It takes a long time to adjust to the wonky control scheme in ROF, and it takes a long time to get accustomed to it.

Arthur Gould Lee's first impressions of the Camel, "...her amazing lightness on the controls,lighter even than a Pup, which is gentle-sensitive, while the Camel is fierce, razor sharp.  She turns with lightning quickness to the right.  You have to be careful taking off, as the engine torque veers her to  the left and you have to apply full right rudder, but it's easy  enough when you get the knack".  Two days later, "I did twenty minutes, which brought me up to 300 hours solo [that's on all types to that date].  I tried a few stunts.  She loops practically automatically, as she is tail heavy, so much so that in level flying you have to press against the stick the whole time.  Result, if you don't press, she just goes up and over..."

Seems to me that RoF has done quite well, at least with the Camel.  I certainly agree that a longer stick-throw would make things less sensitive, though.  I've lowered my pitch-curve so that I don't have to press forward the whole time - as you say, it makes flying and shooting well-nigh impossible - but I feel a bit of a fraud when I read things like this.

Quote from: sandman2575 on October 28, 2014, 09:39:42 AM

Quote from: Nefaro on October 27, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Getting shot down, ambushed, and occasionally blowing the engine on a Fokker Dr.I, in a dive, when very briefly letting off the blip to keep the engine running.  :buck2:

Coming back to RoF after spending a lot of time with WOFF can make this especially hard. You suddenly once again have to pay real attention to engine management , and make sure your needle does not *touch* the dreaded 1600 RPM.  You can push your engines ridiculously hard in WOFF, so much so that I never really even think about it.  You can also do acrobatics in WOFF that would snap your plane in two in RoF. 

...still, I find WOFF way, way harder than RoF!  But that's because I stick to SP... maybe I should give RoF MP a go.

I find the Pfalz D.III an underrated little gem, btw -- much prefer it to the Albatros, actually.

I actually snap wings off much easier in WOFF.  Very much so on Nieuports in WOFF, even in flat turns.  Blowing engines isn't such a concern in it, however, and that's just fine with me.  ^-^

For some reason I've only had RPM management issues with diving in the Fokker Dr.I in ROF thus far.  The rest of the types have been just fine.  I guess it's just a quirk of the Fokker engine which must have an exceptionally low RPM limit.

ROF multi-player has been a blast.  Mostly due to the 'New Wings - Wargrounds' server and it's great custom MP missions.  There are a lot of different objectives, and a fair variety of flyables with which to achieve them.  So instead of some meaningless mash-up brawl, there is a bigger overall purpose that's done fairly well considering the limited user creation tools available to create it.  The 'Syndicate' server has a similar setup, but with fewer objectives and flyables (set in early '17 so it can be a nice change).

I'd recommend just jumping into MP after a brief re-acquaintance with ROF.  You'll end up spending much of your time flying and looking about on the Full Real servers, enjoying the view, with some occasional dogfighting/bombing/wotnot.  The engine management is pretty easy compared to sims set in later eras.

Quote from: Father Ted on October 28, 2014, 12:17:20 PM

Arthur Gould Lee's first impressions of the Camel, "...her amazing lightness on the controls,lighter even than a Pup, which is gentle-sensitive, while the Camel is fierce, razor sharp.  She turns with lightning quickness to the right.  You have to be careful taking off, as the engine torque veers her to  the left and you have to apply full right rudder, but it's easy  enough when you get the knack".  Two days later, "I did twenty minutes, which brought me up to 300 hours solo [that's on all types to that date].  I tried a few stunts.  She loops practically automatically, as she is tail heavy, so much so that in level flying you have to press against the stick the whole time.  Result, if you don't press, she just goes up and over..."

Seems to me that RoF has done quite well, at least with the Camel.  I certainly agree that a longer stick-throw would make things less sensitive, though.  I've lowered my pitch-curve so that I don't have to press forward the whole time - as you say, it makes flying and shooting well-nigh impossible - but I feel a bit of a fraud when I read things like this.

I'm familiar with the stick tendencies, notably of the rotaries like the Camel.  Although the amount of push required in ROF may still be up for debate.  The Gould quote suggests that the Camel was a relatively unusual case of it eventually looping if you didn't push the nose forward, although I've read the same about the Nieuport 28. 

My concern with it is that, mixed with the overly sensitive game controls and the effect of having to move our joystick across the center detent (something that was likely much smoother in those old planes) makes it move less smoothly for us. 

Quote from: Nefaro on October 28, 2014, 01:11:24 PM
My concern with it is that, mixed with the overly sensitive game controls and the effect of having to move our joystick across the center detent (something that was likely much smoother in those old planes) makes it move less smoothly for us.

Fair enough.  Also just had a quick flip in NWW (20 min, one engagement, managed to land after getting seriously wounded) and I see what you mean about the TIR.  Never noticed it before, dunno why.  I am aware though that I find it hard to track planes close-in, but I've just put that down to my ineptitude.

After only getting 0.5 kills yesterday, I finally got 2 player kills in one MP round on Wargrounds today.  Improving.  O0

Just to keep RoF out of the BoS thread...Syndicate is the place to be on Sunday evenings - there are often 50-70 fliers on.  Only snag is that I'm talking about Sunday evenings, European time.

Quote from: Father Ted on November 07, 2014, 01:31:21 PM
Just to keep RoF out of the BoS thread...Syndicate is the place to be on Sunday evenings - there are often 50-70 fliers on.  Only snag is that I'm talking about Sunday evenings, European time.

That's mid-day in NA.  About football time so that could be spotty.

Hit us up on Steam tonight if you want to play.. Mine is 'non' Steam.. I might have to run out and pick up my Son later on.. SDR will suggest that I keep my Track IR on for that trip for entertainment reasons  :crazy2:

Quote from: Tuna on November 07, 2014, 05:28:23 PM
Hit us up on Steam tonight if you want to play.. Mine is 'non' Steam.. I might have to run out and pick up my Son later on.. SDR will suggest that I keep my Track IR on for that trip for entertainment reasons  :crazy2:

I'd like to do that if my nausea spells abate.  :knuppel2:

Tried flying yesterday and it made my head swim.  I got new toys to break in and this asshole virus grounds me.   :-[

Pretty sure I have you on my Steam list, Tuna.  Dunno about SDR.  I'll check there before logging in this weekend.

Yeah.. I haven't flown in awhile.. I tried setting up my flare guns, but then it seemed like SDR was gonna be doing Arma3 and didn't see anyone else on.. So went upstairs and got caught up on SOA. Gus said he may be interested tomorrow, we'll see..

Man, this Syndicate mission sucks.  Only Nieuport 17s?  That's my worst plane to fly.   Terrible at it. 

Been waiting for the Pups to show up again in the spawn, in between getting shot down, but they haven't done so in quite awhile. 

If you see me disappear, it's because I moved over to the Wargrounds server today.  More variety to choose from.

I liked the map.. nice and small with good landmarks so easy to find you're way around. Yeah.. I've never flown the Neiport, just bought it in a sale.. Will probably hit Wargrounds tonight.. Should come on TS with me n SDR.. Good seeing Father Ted there too..  O0

Is Father Ted on Steam?

Quote from: Tuna on November 08, 2014, 05:25:55 PM
I liked the map.. nice and small with good landmarks so easy to find you're way around. Yeah.. I've never flown the Neiport, just bought it in a sale.. Will probably hit Wargrounds tonight.. Should come on TS with me n SDR.. Good seeing Father Ted there too..  O0

Didn't know you guys were on TS.  You on the server Teamspeak?

I'll look for you later, after we go to the respective feedings.

Tuna you mentioned Wings - sorry for the OT. I haven't played RoF in a long time. My copy is also non-Steam.

Wings was the Server we were talking about Gus.. same one we flew on a long time ago with SDR. Nef, we were on the New Wings TS (I know we were in the Syndicate server, but don't know if Syndicate has TS..

Oh dear. I see the mix up now. I thought you meant the Wings Remastered Edition... :crazy2:

Quote from: Gusington on November 08, 2014, 06:22:22 PM
Oh dear. I see the mix up now. I thought you meant the Wings Remastered Edition... :crazy2:

LOL

The New Wings - Wargrounds server.  *wink wink nod nod*

Blast it! 

The damn ROF master login server is down.   >:( 

Someone go wake up one of the Ivans and tell them to kick the gerbil awake.

Sorry Gus, I thought you meant Rise of Flight..

Quote from: Tuna on November 08, 2014, 05:36:34 PM
Is Father Ted on Steam?

Friend request accepted, though my RoF is non-Steam.  I check here to see who's online: http://online.riseofflight.net/en/ (http://online.riseofflight.net/en/). I'll hop on TS next time you guys are on - typing "check six" whilst also trying to fly doesn't work for me!

I am non Steam as well.. it's just good to see who's on...

The Master Server was down last night, so we couldn't get back on..

Yeah TS is good for helping us hook up.. After that lil Dog Fight, I don't know if we ever got back together again.

Let me know when you guys attempt to go up again and if you need a gunner I would enjoy that. I don't have a lot of RoF experience.

Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2014, 10:16:01 AM
Let me know when you guys attempt to go up again and if you need a gunner I would enjoy that. I don't have a lot of RoF experience.

When playing on New Wings - Wargrounds server, I sometimes run the Recon missions in a Bristol F2b or Halberstadt CL.II 2-seater.  Or bombing if those are done.  When doing those missions, a warm body in the rear gunner seat would be great.  The AI is kinda hit & miss.

The F2b comes with a pair of rear guns, but the CL.II requires an add-on for a pair.  Which I have.  I'm just not sure if a person taking over the gunner's seat in the CL.II would need both the aircraft AND the extra gun add-on.  ???

Me neither, clearly. What time zone are you in?

I flew as gunner with Tuna a few times last year and enjoyed it, even though it was at times both slow and deadly.

Didn't you guys get turned around in a cloud bank and eat some dirt shortly afterwards? 

Yeah.. Tuna get's disoriented in the Clouds.. doesn't like it.. not like the Sea!

I wasn't going to bring it up, but...yeah.

In such situations it's usually the tail gunner's fault.  Especially if he can't see over the lip of the cupola.

^Yes my sheer mass and girth certainly played into the hands of the...SHUT UP

Another good thing about RoF - clouds are scary when you have no artificial horizon!

Especially if Tuna's at the controls!

Quote from: Gusington on November 09, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Me neither, clearly. What time zone are you in?

Central time.

QuoteI flew as gunner with Tuna a few times last year and enjoyed it, even though it was at times both slow and deadly.

Pretty sure I've only been attacked once or twice out of the 15+ recon missions I've done.  Most of those were the ones near the trenches, however.  There is always a third one further in the enemy rear.  I think part of the reason they don't typically come after you is because you're up high (over 2km alt) and mainly because they don't get any radio'd warning from ground forces if you take the right route in.

Bombing runs can be another story.  Since my level-bombing skills aren't great, I tend to get down to 1km altitude or less and dive bomb.  Then go train hunting and strafe stuff.  That regularly draws enemies around, especially since they get a screen notification when you're buzzing around certain targets down low like that (telephoning you in).   I've actually had a couple kills in the more agile 2-seaters (F2b and CL.II) but a human gunner would be a big help.


EDIT:  Looks like there are a few vets on the Wargrounds server right now.  I may jump on shortly, while they're there.  Even if it means being fresh meat for the taking.  :)

Oooo! 

Wargrounds server is populated tonight.   :D

*#$#!! 

Scratch that.  Damn Wargrounds server keeps dropping me shortly after take-off. 

ROF multi-player is fun when the damn servers are all running okay.  >:(

Warground server is happenin.

Gonna hit it in a bit, as long as the login server doesn't piss on me again.


Also... I've been getting a bit of an itch to do some RO2/Rising Storm multi-player again this weekend.  Even though I'll get my ass kicked all over the place.  Anyone mess with the new equipment in the latest update?

Wish I saw this earlier.. my FSX flight really kind of sucked!!!.. Wish I did ROF instead!

Quote from: Tuna on November 14, 2014, 10:11:50 PM
Wish I saw this earlier.. my FSX flight really kind of sucked!!!.. Wish I did ROF instead!

I'm sure Wargrounds will be populated throughout the weekend.

Continuing my often close & ongoing relationship with Archibald in ROF.

That is pretty cool - when it happens to somebody else, that is!

Had some more fun multi-player on the Wargrounds server.  Offloaded some lead, gained some.    :)

The Big News was announced:

Ilya Muromets will be combined with ROF, adding the East Front map(s) and the two Russian aircraft (the Free Russkie-built Nieuport and the Muromets bomber).

They're also tweaking some FMs and adding better mouse controls to the game along with upcoming patches.

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/default.aspx

Just a heads up to our RoF MP community:  the Tweaks have re-awakened a lot of interest.  I was on NWW last night (GMT) with 55 other fliers.  The interest will probably die down soon, so get your fix  now!

Quote from: Father Ted on December 20, 2014, 03:16:20 AM
Just a heads up to our RoF MP community:  the Tweaks have re-awakened a lot of interest.  I was on NWW last night (GMT) with 55 other fliers.  The interest will probably die down soon, so get your fix  now!

There are often quite a few people in a full realism server over the weekends.  30-40 on Wargrounds most of today.  Been wanting to get in, think I may have found an opening.

I used the Nvidia ShadowPlay "Go Back" option to save this video.  There is an occasional jerkiness when I move my TrackIR view near the beginning that didn't happen when I was flying.  It's nice to have this extra ShadowPlay option when you missed something but it records better using the manual on/off option.  Just FYI in case anyone plans on using it.

I an going to get back into this one again too. :)
Hopefully see you guys online !


.

Quote from: Yskonyn on January 04, 2015, 03:07:40 AM
I an going to get back into this one again too. :)
Hopefully see you guys online !


.

The sensation of flight in ROF is far superior to any other flight sim I've ever played.  I'm sure you know this already. 

I recall it being intimidating the first couple times I flew because the controls can be a bit odd on some planes (and perhaps a bit too exaggerated in a couple cases) but once I got past the initial learning curve it has been a superb and beautiful experience. 

Notably so in the Full Real multi-player servers (NW-Wargrounds and Syndicate servers) where there is a large stretch of front to fly around in and lots of objectives (especially in NWW) to attempt.  Even flying a two-seater with an AI observer in the back is a blast.  With such a large area, there are periods of calm while you're flying about looking for targets (or threats as the case may be) but even then it's an enjoyable experience.  Gotta be very alert even when it's quiet because people can & will start shooting at you out of seemingly nowhere.  Dunno how many times my heart stopped when I glanced back a second time to see a pair of machineguns where they hadn't been before, pointed right at me.  :o 

Most fun I've had in a multi-player flight sim, even if my usual lone wolf tactics end up getting me riddled full of holes.  Still have friendlies fly my wing when we run into each other in the air, though.

(Also posted in the Videos thread sticky)


This was my first 1v2 run-in of the day.  They were having an event on Syndicate server now that the Ilya Muromets sim has been merged with Rise of Flight.  It was an East Front scenario, Austria-Hungary vs Russia.




I tallied both of them before fully engaging, so managed to avoid the drag & bag they were set up for.  I would've been dead if I had taken after the first one without checking around again.  I've come to expect it when there are quite a few people on the server using Teamspeak.

Er... Something struck me just now. Is the MP still seperate between the Steam and non-Steam version of the sim?


.

Quote from: Yskonyn on January 05, 2015, 12:17:16 PM
Er... Something struck me just now. Is the MP still seperate between the Steam and non-Steam version of the sim?


.

No.  Never was.  It's all the same.

You still need to use the separate ROF login after you start the game.

Ah ok. I thought I read it somewhere. Must be my mind playing tricks. Can't find anything about it on their forums either.  :uglystupid2:

its 70% off on Steam now until 6/1   ...i am tempted  :)

First I would try the free download - at the bottom of this page: http://riseofflight.com/store/ (http://riseofflight.com/store/)- also check the prices there.

Agree, give the demo a shot, but overall I'd say you can't go wrong with getting RoF for $15 -- it's definitely well worth that, if you have any interest at all in combat flight simulators, or WW1 air combat in particular --

Quote from: sandman2575 on May 28, 2015, 12:46:59 PM
Agree, give the demo a shot, but overall I'd say you can't go wrong with getting RoF for $15 -- it's definitely well worth that, if you have any interest at all in combat flight simulators, or WW1 air combat in particular --

I just reinstalled it.  I've had it on various machines since June 2011.  Bombing barges with the RE8 is my current favorite pastime there.

I bounce back and forth between RoF and WOFF, never fully satisfied with either, even though I think both are excellent. RoF with the PWCG offers a pretty decent single-player campaign experience. Not as satisfying as WOFF, but certainly entertaining enough, I think. WOFF is the 'fuller' experience overall, but every time I go back to it after spending time with RoF, I just really miss the gorgeous visuals and more fully fleshed-out FMs. If only the two games could get together to create the perfect WW1 flight simulator baby.

Then, sooner or later, I get frustrated with the inability of WW1 crates to climb at anything like a decent rate of ascent, and pop over to Cliffs of Dover, maybe Battle of Stalingrad, and just think, "Man, why does the SP have to suck so hard in what otherwise could've been fantastic games???"

Jets are just way beyond me. No DCS for me.

Quote from: sandman2575 on May 28, 2015, 02:06:40 PM
I bounce back and forth between RoF and WOFF, never fully satisfied with either, even though I think both are excellent. RoF with the PWCG offers a pretty decent single-player campaign experience. Not as satisfying as WOFF, but certainly entertaining enough, I think. WOFF is the 'fuller' experience overall, but every time I go back to it after spending time with RoF, I just really miss the gorgeous visuals and more fully fleshed-out FMs. If only the two games could get together to create the perfect WW1 flight simulator baby.

Then, sooner or later, I get frustrated with the inability of WW1 crates to climb at anything like a decent rate of ascent, and pop over to Cliffs of Dover, maybe Battle of Stalingrad, and just think, "Man, why does the SP have to suck so hard in what otherwise could've been fantastic games???"

+1

Quote from: sandman2575 on May 28, 2015, 02:06:40 PM
I bounce back and forth between RoF and WOFF, never fully satisfied with either, even though I think both are excellent. RoF with the PWCG offers a pretty decent single-player campaign experience. Not as satisfying as WOFF, but certainly entertaining enough, I think. WOFF is the 'fuller' experience overall, but every time I go back to it after spending time with RoF, I just really miss the gorgeous visuals and more fully fleshed-out FMs. If only the two games could get together to create the perfect WW1 flight simulator baby.

Then, sooner or later, I get frustrated with the inability of WW1 crates to climb at anything like a decent rate of ascent, and pop over to Cliffs of Dover, maybe Battle of Stalingrad, and just think, "Man, why does the SP have to suck so hard in what otherwise could've been fantastic games???"

Jets are just way beyond me. No DCS for me.

Funny you mentioned that last part about pwcg, because just this week a thread on the BOS forums popped up with Jason777 looking for someone with coding experience to convert pwcg to BOS.  I guess pat refused to do it himself even for money because he is only interested in WWI.  He did volunteer to tutor a coder to take the project over for BOS.  This is being developed as a third party project and doesn't include Moscow.  Some suggestions have been made to make donation ware like fsx addons or pay one of the Moscow devs the Russian labor rate to do it so it is done in a timely manner.
Needless to say, they are still looking, but the search is only a few days old so ....we'll see.

Inspite of the mediocre SP, I've been flying the crap out of this sim.  It's been a success for me because I brought the mentality of what I learned from Dcs.  Best flown with custom made missions with a close knit group on ts, and do more coop player vs AI to focus on tactical as opposed to airquake.  The FMB has really helped the sim.

Of course, if 777 had just put some real effort into creating a robust single-player experience in BOS (or ROF) in the first place, they wouldn't need to be pleading with 3rd party free-lancers.

Still, if someone is good enough to adapt PWCG for BOS, I'll gladly take it.

What I'd really love is if someone could adapt PWCG for CloD, although I suppose since CloD isn't 777's engine, that's not likely.  Overall, I just much prefer CloD to BoS on so many levels (fully patched up with the TF patches, needless to say).  But even the Team Fusion dynamic campaign for CloD is rubbish, no way around it.

I prefer east front, so I'm more partial to BOS.  I did love BOB II WOV, that's why I passed on CLOD, no way they were going to top that experience.  I may visit CLOD when they release the Med theater, but that will be years. 

So...it IS really difficult to fly some of the planes in this game, right?  I mean....it's not just me or my joystick, but if you are flying a Nieuport 17c, it is a little bit jumpy and you can tear off the wings quite easily?

Most of the planes I've tried flying didn't pose any problems.  But if you want a challenge, try flying the Gotha bomber.  I've probably forgotten how to do it because I haven't tried flying one in a while, but getting it off the ground was quite the challenge.  I think the trick is to center your controls and think about making slight corrections without actually doing it.  Anything less gentle than that tends to flip it over during take-off.  But it's quite a feeling when you finally manage to get that beast into the air without crashing.

I'm waiting for Ilya Muromets to go on sale so I may not be able to comment on the Sikorsky for a year or so.  Plenty to do in the meantime. It's very retro of me, but I'm partial to the Eindekker.

And by the way, I fly with a mouse because everything is in storage and likely to remain so for at least a year. 

Quote from: Philippe on August 12, 2015, 11:19:58 AM
Most of the planes I've tried flying didn't pose any problems.  But if you want a challenge, try flying the Gotha bomber.  I've probably forgotten how to do it because I haven't tried flying one in a while, but getting it off the ground was quite the challenge.  I think the trick is to center your controls and think about making slight corrections without actually doing it.  Anything less gentle than that tends to flip it over during take-off.  But it's quite a feeling when you finally manage to get that beast into the air without crashing.

Landing is a whole other can of worms!!!!.. But you do feel good when you finally accomplish it!...

Most other planes are not that hard to handle.

Quote from: Jack Nastyface on August 12, 2015, 11:04:46 AM
So...it IS really difficult to fly some of the planes in this game, right?  I mean....it's not just me or my joystick, but if you are flying a Nieuport 17c, it is a little bit jumpy and you can tear off the wings quite easily?

Yep - but don't give up!

One of the big issues with most of the planes is using a spring-loaded joystick as opposed to a force feedback one.  This is because where the stick centres is not necessarily in the "right" place - usually meaning that the plane will fly tail-heavy all the time.  So you have to apply forward pressure in level flight, and any relaxing of this (eg when you're thinking about shooting or turning) results in the nose climbing and you over-correcting to get it down.

Now, you can get rid of this by changing your pitch curve in the responses part of the options.  All you do is shift the whole curve down until the plane will fly hands off in level flight at, say, 80% throttle.

That said, the rotary-powered planes (of which the N17 was one) were hard to fly - infamously so in the case of the Camel. In fact I have a first-hand account which describes the Camel looping unless the stick was held forward. So in altering my pitch curves I feel a bit of a fraud.

Of course it's not just about that, but I think the "bouncing nose" is the biggest issue for new Roffers.

Quote from: Jack Nastyface on August 12, 2015, 11:04:46 AM
So...it IS really difficult to fly some of the planes in this game, right?  I mean....it's not just me or my joystick, but if you are flying a Nieuport 17c, it is a little bit jumpy and you can tear off the wings quite easily?

Yes.  It's not just you.

These olde aircraft ('E' for emphasis) each have their own .. personality.. when it comes to handling them.  How close to real that may be is up for debate since our short spring-loaded & center-detented joysticks themselves handle a bit differently than the sticks in those olde planes.  But it definitely conveys the impression that you're constantly trying to keep it from killing you.

This is discouraging at first.  It was for me, when I first tried ROF, although my biggest complaint has always been how much the nose rises when your stick is centered.  That can be offset, to some extent, in the joystick setting curves. 

However, once you get accustomed to flying these kites/deathtraps, it can be very addictive.  Due to the extremely low stall speeds and huge amount of surface lift from all the wing area, you can do some impressively acrobatic dogfight maneuvers.   Sure, you may sometimes die after losing control while learning them, or with a certain model's aerodynamic quirks, but it's damn rewarding when you start improving noticeably.  It also becomes more fun to fly different models.

After flying sim crates in ROF & WOFF, the later era stuff seem so much easier to dogfight in.  I'm pretty sure my multi-player dogfight experience in ROF alone improves my dogfight abilities more than any other single sim.  Even if for no other reason tahn I don't have to devote the extra attention to keeping my aircraft under control so much while doing so.

I also want to point out that once you get past the initial control terrors of ROF, you'll experience how immersive the flying is.  Between the varied sounds of the open cockpit and (preferably with TrackIR), looking around, it's the best out there at providing the sensation of flight.  I mean..it's easy to get used to flying without looking at your gauges - just using the sounds of the wind & your aircraft, along with the view.  That's when I realized how amazing it was, gauging my flight profile and how close to stalling or ripping wings I was by the sounds during maneuvers.  O0


When you're first learning, I highly suggest flying the Albatros D.Va.  It's the most forgiving in flight, turns pretty well, has two guns, and it's inline engine isn't so worrisome as the rotary engines since the inline engine's operation will be familiar to anyone (Rotaries require a little learning).

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the kind and informative responses.  I only have the basic game installed with no additional "plane packs" but I will be buying some as soon as they go on sale.
Believing it or not, I am okay at landing the Spad 13, the D.Va, and just okay on the Nieup 17.  I set up a couple of simple duel's versus recruit / rookie 2 seat observer planes, and did okay in the Spad, really good (5 kills in the D. Va) and crappy in the Nieup.  By far the biggest problem I had in the Spad was getting hit by plane debris, and occaisonally going into a flat spin at too low an altitude to recover.  The D.Va is a real killing machine (at least at this stage and setting), but I am finding the Nieup just a bit jumpy.  In four different "quick combat" engagements, I tore the wings off the plane whilst starting a "tight circle" fight.
@Phillipe - like you, I enjoy the early war planes, which is why I gravitated to the 17.  Can't wait to try the DH2, eindecker, etc.

The plane I've always found hardest to control -- by far -- is the Camel. (I only ever fly the scouts -- never tried the Gotha etc.)  In turns, the Camel has a very frustrating tendency to stall into a spin that is *impossible* to recover from. With most other planes, I can feel the stall coming on or know when I'm putting too much stress on the airframe, but with the Camel, I just can't seem to avoid those death spirals even if I"m being super careful.

Quote from: sandman2575 on August 13, 2015, 02:26:25 PM
The plane I've always found hardest to control -- by far -- is the Camel. (I only ever fly the scouts -- never tried the Gotha etc.)  In turns, the Camel has a very frustrating tendency to stall into a spin that is *impossible* to recover from. With most other planes, I can feel the stall coming on or know when I'm putting too much stress on the airframe, but with the Camel, I just can't seem to avoid those death spirals even if I"m being super careful.

All rotary-engined planes are more difficult to control, due to their excessive torque/precession making the aircraft want to roll, or ground loop, to various degrees.  For the same reason, this instability can also allow them to roll & turn in one direction far faster then regular in-lines.  That's why the Camel and Fokker Dr.I had such a reputation for both insane maneuverability and killing their less experienced pilots.

They also usually don't have an adjustable throttle, but a couple RPM settings.  This is one area I think they skimped on realism for easier control since some of the original rotary engines only had one setting - full speed.  But pilots used fuel enrichment settings & such, along with the very helpful "blip" switch (which is in game), to moderate it. 

This is just the tip of the details iceberg.  I suggest studying up on some tips regarding flying a craft with a Rotary Engine in ROF, to better understand all the oddities.  Even so far as studying each type.  It's not the same as flying other aircraft. 

The most well known rotaries in ROF = most of the Sopwiths & Nieuports, and the Fokker Dr.I.   The reason that the Sopwith Camel and Fokker DrI are the most notable, regarding crazy handling characteristics, is they were late war iterations having low weight mixed with higher horsepower rotary engines than earlier stuff which made them even more susceptible. 

The Nieuports had some exceptionally weak wings, so be careful overspeeding them in a dive & pulling on the stick at high speeds.  Also be aware that you can blow a rotary engine by overspeeding the prop, especially with the Dr.I in ROF.  Just takes experience to know where the edge is, per usual.  Fortunately for us we don't have to die finding that out, as they regularly did back then.

Update:  I just picked up ALL the add-ons on sale with the exception of the classic bombers and Ilya Muromets, although I haven't installed a played them, yet.  I am absolutely LOVING this game, although I am still flying against rookie enemy AI pilots.  Perhaps the only thing I wish was was included was the classic "creaking" sound of the air frame that occurred in Red Baron II when you were pulling hard G's.

You don't need to install anything: everything in the game is already there - it gets unlocked when you pay for it.  The creaking of the airframe...A couple of years back, one of the periodic updates introduced a bug which intermittently silenced the engine sound.  When that happened, we found we could hear all those noises - they were just hidden.  Like it or loathe it, this sim has a pretty awesome attention to detail.

Hey Father Ted,
I bought my add-ins via steam, so there is a little bit of "copy the activation code to the clipboard" dance that you have to do between steam and riseoflight.com.  Took me all of 5 minutes to do.


Jumped into an early war Nieuport last night and shot down a few rookie eindeckers.  I think I am going to have to bump the enemy AI soon.
Also...isn't there a two-seater that features some kind of light 37mm gun?  I thought I saw something of that ilk, sometime ago.
Edit:  or maybe it was just this: [size=78%]http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/knights-of-the-air-sky-cannons (http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/knights-of-the-air-sky-cannons)[/size]