Tease.....

[Barthheart]

Is that thing with the little girl needing rescue a common occurrence? It seems a bit contrived and would actually make more sense if it happened when playing the Russian side, since she is most likely a Russian child. (No offense to brave Lt Wurtz and his men intended  ;)).

Nazi-centricity in WW2 games is an endemic problem.  Do your part to curb such behavior!  ;)

..because Germany brought a bunch of children with them to Stalingrad?  Or were they in the business of rescuing Soviet civilians?  ::)

Good grief guys! This has nothing to do with Nazi worship. If you'd ever met Mark you'd understand that.

It's one scenario at the start of the German campaign. The Germans are not "rescuing" the girl from the "Evil Russians". She's a non-combatant trapped in a fire fight. Your character decides to have a little humanity and try to keep her from getting killed by either side. The Russians do NOT try and kill her. Since they are run by the AI they totally ignore her. The only way she can get hurt is if you or the AI shot into or through her hex.
Mark is just injecting some story elements into the campaign.... you know .... character development.
There are other civilians in the game as well.
There's even a Russian nurse that can save yer Russian ass in the middle of a fire fight.
There are lots of things in both campaigns.... Not just blowing shit up....

[JudgeDredd]

I love playing as the Germans in ANY game - I don't know why...maybe there's a wee bit of the fascist in me - or maybe it's because they had cooler kit.

One thing I do know is it's not a way for me to imagine killing Americans, Brits or Russkies.  ;D

[Keunert]

i would love to play a scenario with a wounded dog.
is that possible or is it part of an extension?

[Nefaro]

Good grief guys! This has nothing to do with Nazi worship. If you'd ever met Mark you'd understand that.

Maybe not, but it gave me the opportunity to rant about how WW2 games often cater to ze German side more than any other.   Must be a supply & demand thing because there seems to be a lot of Nazi militaria worship in Groggish circles, easily evidenced by how many people always choose that side over others.

[Barthheart]

 ::)

[JasonPratt]

Cooler kit plus the challenge of 'they lost, could I do better', does not equal agreement with their philosophies.

Besides which, not even some Nazis agreed with their philosophies. Many were giving it lip service for various reasons, but then helped other people out when they could. (It's generally acknowledged for example that Atlantic U-boat officers were routinely more merciful to victimized crews than our American officers operating in the Pacific theater.)

Real-life Nazis weren't all evil-doing Stormtrooper clones all the time, just like real-life American troops weren't all do-gooding GI Joes all the time.

That being said, it's also certainly good to remember that we're playing the (overall) bad-guys in our cops and robbers games: someone has to play the robber or there isn't a game, but it's chilling to recall that when we're Rommelling along in Panzer General (or Panzer Corps nowadays), we'd be enslaving and murdering millions of people if doing the same in real life -- and Rommel was a 'good' Nazi!

(My German teacher during my senior year in college was a next-door neighbor to the Rommels as a little girl; she hated the Nazis with a passion but liked to tell stories about what a great guy Rommel was. :) )

[undercovergeek]

Good grief guys! This has nothing to do with Nazi worship. If you'd ever met Mark you'd understand that.

Maybe not, but it gave me the opportunity to rant about how WW2 games often cater to ze German side more than any other.   Must be a supply & demand thing because there seems to be a lot of Nazi militaria worship in Groggish circles, easily evidenced by how many people always choose that side over others.

FWIW - playing WTO i always play Germans - their tanks, the mg42, the uniforms, plus the 'can i succeed where they failed' is a draw i cant refuse

PTO - always the Japanese - the Zero, the Bettys, the Carriers - all their shits cooler, and the succeed/failure draw again

If it was Star Wars id be the Empire - its got Darth Vader FFS, tie fighters and the Death Star, and the succeed/failure

i think the common theme here is grogs are not drawn to nazi worship, theyre drawn to seeing if they can do better because we're such pain in the ass perfectionist OCD weirdos

and im proud to be one

a grog

not a nazi  :P

[JasonPratt]

^^ See, I'm not so much interested in playing the Empire, because THEY HAD ALREADY WON! From a probabilistic standpoint, the Rebels are more interesting to me, because they pulled a win out of the ass of the Force (in effect) several times.

Similarly, I have no particular compunction to play the British in an American Revolution game, despite them having better kit and a much more awesome look: they really should have won, it's the other side who kept suffering ridiculous losses and setbacks under harsher conditions.

I'm about balanced when it comes to WW2 Eastern Front for different reasons: scrappy desperate Russian popular fighting vs. Hugo Boss Panzers vs. the tidal wave of communist tyranny (or is it righteous avengement?)

Kind of balanced on American Civil War preferences, too; or I would be except I'm a territorial Tennesseean. ;)

Russia and the Central Powers (whether Austria, Germany or Turkey) each more provide attractive challenges to me in WW1, despite being on opposite sides; I couldn't care less about playing France, Britain or the USA. (Unless it's an air fight, where the sides are more-or-less equal, desperate, chivalrous and colorful.)

[undercovergeek]

Oh and spain/portugal in the EU games - they're just quintesessentially medieval to me - this as a brit who takes his daughter to a playground next to a castle every weekend, but medieval spain is so much more sexy and cool 

[JudgeDredd]

What castle?

[tgb]

You can sometimes still play "the losers" in a WWII game without playing as Germany.  When available, I usually like to see if I can hold out longer as Poland or France.

[GJK]

I know that every time I play the Nazi's in WW2 wargames I'm thinking "I will get payback for what was done to Germany in the Treaty of Versailles!!!".  I also do the little Hitler stomp every time France falls....

[SgtRock]

Well watching the video, there are some questions.

- Comic based story telling
- Why did they add comics? (they don't even look that good)
- I thought this was a straight port of the board game?

Map size and starting positions
- Are stating positions fixed, always a single approach to combat?
- Do forces always start so close to each other?
- Are all maps this small?
- How many maps?

Campaigns
- Is the Russian campaign just playing the other side of the German campaign, same maps same forces?

Game System (I'm not familiar with)
- Units, number of men per squad?
- Loses aren't tracked by number of men? (it seems odd to me a game at this scale wouldn't track losses by men)
- Close quarter combat seems very simplistic?

[Barthheart]

Well watching the video, there some things.

- Comic based story telling
- Why did they add comics? (they don't even look that good)
- I thought this was a straight port of the board game?

The story telling is only for the campaigns. Mark Walker, creator of the board and PC game, is also a writer by trade and wanted an interesting way to tie the campaign scenarios together other than just timeline. You are a leader counter on the board. If your counter dies the campaign ends. You can gain campaign points for certain things and heroic acts. These can be used to get you more troops and inprove your own abilities.
Again this is just for the 2 campaigns.
Art work is not final... I think.

The actual play of the game is a straight port of the board game... with a few additions like flanking fire.

There are many stand alone scenarios that you can play against the AI or online against other players.

Map size and starting positions
- Are stating positions fixed, always a single approach to combat?
- Do forces always start so close to each other?
- Are all maps this small?
- How many maps?

As in the board game, some scenarios have fixed starting positions some allow the players to setup.
This is a tactical level squad based game. It's all about close in fighting.
Maps range from 1 map panel up to I think 8 panels in a 4 x 2 layout. There are some large battles with lots of units on each side.
There are lots of map panels, 15+,  and are combined into lots of combinations.

Campaigns
- Is the Russian campaign just playing the other side of the German campaign, same maps same forces?

Nope. The 2 campaigns are different. Some scenarios might be the same but most are different. In each you play a leader in that army.

Game System (I'm not familiar with)
- Units, number of men per squad?
- Loses aren't tracked by number of men? (it seems odd to me a game at this scale wouldn't track losses by men)
- Close quarter combat seems very simplistic?

To help you get familiar, go here to download a free print and play version of the board game, including rules :
http://www.locknloadgame.com/_siteFiles/downloads/Vierville-LNL-BOH-PlayDEMO.zip

Units are squads of about 10 - 12 men, weapon teams of about 2-5 men, single man counters for leaders, medics, sniper, heroes, etc., single vehicles.
Losses don't track individual soldiers because this is a straight port of the board game. Squads become half squads become dead squads.
Melee combat can be quick and very deadly, or it can continue for many turns until there is a victor.

Hope that helps.  8)

[tgb]

As to combat being "simplistic", again, this is based on a board game, so all combat results are determined by 1 or 2 d6. However, there are a lot of factors that modify the dice roll.