Halloween Season Gaming

[Gusington]

HA I can't quit you 'Geek.

I have just started through The Walking Dead Season 3 on Netflix...that will keep my tv juices flowing for The Season of Darkness.

[BanzaiCat]

I just finished The Walking Dead Season 3 on Netflix, then went back to Breaking Bad after stopping partway through season 4. Now I'm lost. I might go back to that Kevin Spacey-fueled 'House of Cards' again.

[Gusington]

House of Cards rocks!!!

[JasonPratt]

there were so many 'ooooooooooo, this is scary and mysterious' plot twists thrown in to try and shake people off the fact that the writers thought they were onto something so bizarre and unique noone would guess they were already dead

Seriously, they weren't already dead. Most died along the way, others died after returning to the island, others died long after returning from the island (effectively long after the story was over). A couple hadn't died yet at the end of the series. The plotline with Other people coming and going from the island and interacting with the outside world totally refutes the idea that the crash survivors were dead.

Not that this refutes the theory that the writers radically rechanged the plot early on from a purgatory storyline; the writers admitted later they were making things up for the main plot as they went along despite assuring fans they knew exactly where they were going. (It also doesn't help that the ending episode explains this all very vaguely.)

[JasonPratt]

Damon Lindelof himself semi-officially promoted a guy on Tumblr for fans to read who pieced together details from episodes and from interviews. The Tumblr blog is here, but the guy's Cracked article summarizes most of the pertinent details here since his blog isn't sorted in anything like topical order:

http://lostanswers.tumblr.com/
http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to-losts-supposedly-unanswered-questions/

#1 off the bat, the island wasn't purgatory (or at least it wasn't by the end of the second season and never was after that and definitely didn't end that way).

What happened in the sideworld during the final season, on the other hand, was basically purgatory. BUT ONLY IN THE SIDEWORLD; and I gather this wasn't the plan from the beginning either. The story events on the island actually happened in the in-story natural history, even in the final season.

The Answer Guy admits that the show has a lot of flaws, including in its story, and that the answers aren't always satisfying. But he makes a strong argument that the writers did give definitive (if sometimes sucky) answers to the show's mysteries along the way.

Sample answer #2:

What was the Island? Answer: Magic. The longer answer for this is "The Island is a conscious place that can travel through time and space. It contains the source of all life. Water and Light combine at its center to form an energy that fuels Life, Death and Rebirth throughout existence. The Island, like all life, can make choices and be manipulated. If the light at the Source of the Island ever goes out, everything ends."

But the shorter answer is still "Magic." Magic is actually the answer to many Unanswered Questions, and if you hate that fact, then LOST just wasn't for you.

This would understandably count as a Sucky Answer however, not because it's inherently illegitimate to mix science and magic in a story, but because the writers swore to fans at the beginning that everything that happened on the island did have a real-world scientific basis. Either they were outright lying or they definitely changed their plot to Magic and it stayed that way to the end. Which helped contribute to the idea that the writers lied from the beginning about the Island not being purgatory.

[Gusington]

You guys enjoyed this? It sounds like stuff I would make up in the schoolyard in 3rd grade.

[MengJiao]

Water and Light combine at its center to form an energy that fuels Life,

  I know this is a bad answer from the answer guy, but doesn't this mean the Island was Chlorophyll and that life is Sugar?

[JasonPratt]

Water and Light combine at its center to form an energy that fuels Life,

  I know this is a bad answer from the answer guy, but doesn't this mean the Island was Chlorophyll and that life is Sugar?

Heh! Water, Light and Dirt (because the Island itself is physically dirt of course.)

You guys enjoyed this? It sounds like stuff I would make up in the schoolyard in 3rd grade.

Yeah, the metaphysics don't work out very well. ;) Still, it's a sci-fi/fantasy story and those metaphysics have a big bearing on answering the mysterious questions. Unfortunately most of the show isn't really "about" the metaphysical things, so they end up being a plot-driving device for the soap-opera character relationships, much in the vein of "Survivor"-ish reality shows.

So as another example, the Island isn't only Magic that keeps all life in existence, it's a conscious character in the show and affects the plot in various somewhat alien ways, shuffling people around and empowering some people. This isn't spelled out overly well, but the details add up to that.

In effect the Island is supposed to be God (with a crunchy "island" shell around it), but a God that can be substantially manipulated and destroyed by other entities (unlike a "theistic" deity), so it acts to protect itself in various ways, and it doesn't give a hoot for human notions of morality (or any notions of morality at all) although it's willing to manipulate humans by appealing to those notions -- usually although not always in ways humans think of as 'good' because those happen to advance its goal of survival.

(GIANT PLOT SPOILERS AHEAD, OBVIOUSLY)

The overarching plotline of the series was eventually revealed to have kicked off when the most recent Protector chosen and empowered by the Island gave birth to twin sons (in a Cain and Abel-ish parallel), and when she died she split her set of protection powers (for various reasons relating to how she died) into two sets, one for each son. One of those sons became the Smoke Monster, and acts as a more hostile security system to protect the Island; the other becomes a different character and sometimes (but not always) acts in a somewhat nicer or more benevolent way to protect the Island. Since he's protecting the existence of all life in the universe, he thinks he's justified in acting in apparently murderous and other dickey ways, too. The brothers roughly approximate to Satan and the archangel Michael, except they were promoted up to that rank from normal human beings a few centuries ago.

The Smokey son doesn't want to be stuck guarding the Island (which is related to why their mother died), and so is looking for a way to break his connection and duties and get off the dang island. He's playing a long game aimed at killing his brother to accomplish this, and his brother is playing a long game to prevent the SM from succeeding in his plans -- which also involves choosing a successor to protect the Island by reintegrating both power sets. Since the Island is connected to all human life, and can meander around the world semi-randomly (or with mysterious purposes of its own), the relatively 'good' brother can also do that and can leave the Island if he wants -- which the SM brother is jealous about on top of everything else. The Island naturally supports the good-ish brother in his plans and helps out, but can't outright stop the SM directly, especially since the Island still depends on Smokey for certain levels of protection.

The good brother eventually brings a bunch of candidates for Protector to the Island (mostly but not entirely through the airplane crash that starts the series), and he and the Island start testing and weeding through them to see who should be the successor to the brothers. Smokey doesn't like this, since he wants to be free (while still having his powers of course -- they're quite nifty and fun) not replaced, but he sees opportunities to use this for his advantage in furthering his own plans.

And also a metric ton of human plots happen, some of which involve scientists (and mystics) trying to study the Island's power for their own purposes. Which naturally obscures the other overarching plot, especially since the pieces are doled out (and probably invented by the authors!) in a fragmented way over the seasons of the series, along with misunderstandings by the characters about what's going on which are often delivered as solid answers.

Eventually, ending #1 happens: one character dies and becomes the new Smoke Monster, but one loyal to the purpose of the island not trying to rebel against it, and another character lives and becomes the new version of the good brother with a lieutenant. This is still not the ideal situation, but at least they're cooperating as a team now (the way the original brothers should have done), so a few decades later they're able to bring a third character back to the Island to become the new unified Protector (which unfortunately is only hinted at and not shown happening in the story), and the two Protector characters join the others going into the Light (with the lieutenant to follow later, maybe after helping get the new Protector up to speed, the final ep isn't clear about that).

[undercovergeek]

or.................


watch until season 4 and know that it peaked there, before they really ran out of ideas

[JasonPratt]

I wouldn't call it running out of ideas so much as Coming Up With Something That More Or Less Ties All Their Previous Ideas Together While Introducing New Ideas That Also Need Tying Up Eventually So Uh Yeah. ;)

(It's been so long since I watched it, I don't recall what happens specifically in Season 4. The Time Travel Plot to the 1970s happened in Season 5, right? -- so Season 4 is where some survivors escape the Island but the plot wasn't resolved so they meander around awhile in the main world dealing with the lives they left behind before having to go back? I know that happens somewhere. Not to be confused with the purgatory sideworld in the final season.)

[undercovergeek]

I wouldn't call it running out of ideas so much as Coming Up With Something That More Or Less Ties All Their Previous Ideas Together While Introducing New Ideas That Also Need Tying Up Eventually So Uh Yeah. ;)

(It's been so long since I watched it, I don't recall what happens specifically in Season 4. The Time Travel Plot to the 1970s happened in Season 5, right? -- so Season 4 is where some survivors escape the Island but the plot wasn't resolved so they meander around awhile in the main world dealing with the lives they left behind before having to go back? I know that happens somewhere. Not to be confused with the purgatory sideworld in the final season.)

i think four was just...... less pseudo-spooky, they hadnt really jumped into the pot of 'get MOAR ideas' yet

[Gusington]

Time travel to the 1970s? Who would want to go back?? That seals it for me.

[Staggerwing]

I often feel sorry that life's little time-demands have robbed me of following many of the well-loved TV series such as House, ER, SoA, the last two seasons of ST:DS9, China Beach, NYPD Blue, the Wire, Boardwalk Empire, Entourage, GoT, and so many more. Now, thanks to this discussion, I have one less...

Thank you all for lightening my load just a wee bit.  ;)

[BanzaiCat]

Time travel to the 1970s? Who would want to go back?? That seals it for me.

And get to hear "Ride, Captain, Ride" again?

[Gusington]

oy