Pike and Shot

[pobjoy]

Ugh.

Yet another review with way too many Panzer/Tiger references that have nothing to do with WW2.  ::)


Maybe some of these people should just go fap it to Tiger porn before writing and get that nonsense out of their system?

Two one word Tiger references in the intro of a 1000+ word review (both used in an attempt to make a serious point about the under-representation of 16th/17th Century warfare in PC wargames). Hardly evidence of a fetish. 

For the record I got bored of Tiger porn about 10 years back. Only T-35s really do it for me anymore. All those pert turrets...

[southern_cross_116]

Battle visuals don't include corpses or lowered pikes.

That's what killed it for me...these strange looking block style units with their pikes straight up in the air all the time...no...I can't stand that 

The graphics are specifically intended to reflect period woodcuts of battles. The battlefields do indeed look very much like contemporary illustrations. Combined with the watercolor style terrain its a nice, albeit different effect.

I am pretty sure they were based upon the illustrations and maps from Theatrum Europaeum -however, technically speaking I think those were copper engravings (leastwise I thought that was what I read someplace). They are pretty good really - more like a 3d sorta, basically birds' eye view of a battlefield (all prior to human flight).

Disclaimer: It would probably be fair to say that I am much more interested in the miniature rules (more directly comparable to some other rule sets - and that is more what I am interested in -all things being equal).

I am sure this one was a labour of love for the designer, and I wish him all the best with it.

[LongBlade]

For the record I got bored of Tiger porn about 10 years back. Only T-35s really do it for me anymore. All those pert turrets...

<chuckle>

[Micha]

Battle visuals don't include corpses or lowered pikes.

That's what killed it for me...these strange looking block style units with their pikes straight up in the air all the time...no...I can't stand that 

The graphics are specifically intended to reflect period woodcuts of battles. The battlefields do indeed look very much like contemporary illustrations. Combined with the watercolor style terrain its a nice, albeit different effect.

They said that they are going to try and insert battle debris and casualties in a future patch.

Unit and landscape optic are a Problem for me, i had the the hope i could use to it, but cant.

[panzerde]

I am pretty sure they were based upon the illustrations and maps from Theatrum Europaeum -however, technically speaking I think those were copper engravings (leastwise I thought that was what I read someplace). They are pretty good really - more like a 3d sorta, basically birds' eye view of a battlefield (all prior to human flight).


...

I am sure this one was a labour of love for the designer, and I wish him all the best with it.

I believe you're dead on about the illustrations and the medium. All I've read from the designer was that the graphics were based on "contemporary illustrations."


After playing this quite a bit the past few days I feel like it's a good PC version of a set of light miniatures rules. Playing this rekindled my interest in Tiller's Musket & Pike: Renaissance and I've played a good bit of that the past few days.


Pike and Shot is fast and engaging, and evocative of the era in a general way. However, the mechanics really start to wear on me after playing it for awhile, particularly during the historical battles. There's a lot abstracted here that eventually leaves my groggy soul wanting. Much of that is due to the engine, which works on a macro scale but appears to have some limits in terms of the number of units, ability to play different sides in a scenario, ability to have specific unit names, etc. And, while the AI is difficult I'm coming to feel that it isn't terribly realistic.


The game play in Renaissance delights me now that I've started playing it again. The maps, the detailed OOBs, and the overall feel of the combat are so "on." for the era. Graphically it makes me weep, and that after I've done some modding. As wargames go, I'm finding I ultimately prefer playing it to playing Pike and Shot. Ultimately I'm after the depth.


If JTS would work on the graphics a bit, and release more games in the series focused on, say the Thirty Years War and the ECW, I'd be overjoyed. I think a lot of my initial positive reaction to P&S boils down to "Yay! A game that covers the TYW and ECW!" Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a fun game, and I believe it'll sell well. It's great for a few rounds of PBEM. For a serious student of the period though Tiller is the ticket.


Now, if only JTS were working on another Musket & Pike series game...

[jomni]

I am pretty sure they were based upon the illustrations and maps from Theatrum Europaeum -however, technically speaking I think those were copper engravings (leastwise I thought that was what I read someplace). They are pretty good really - more like a 3d sorta, basically birds' eye view of a battlefield (all prior to human flight).


...

I am sure this one was a labour of love for the designer, and I wish him all the best with it.

I believe you're dead on about the illustrations and the medium. All I've read from the designer was that the graphics were based on "contemporary illustrations."


After playing this quite a bit the past few days I feel like it's a good PC version of a set of light miniatures rules. Playing this rekindled my interest in Tiller's Musket & Pike: Renaissance and I've played a good bit of that the past few days.


Pike and Shot is fast and engaging, and evocative of the era in a general way. However, the mechanics really start to wear on me after playing it for awhile, particularly during the historical battles. There's a lot abstracted here that eventually leaves my groggy soul wanting. Much of that is due to the engine, which works on a macro scale but appears to have some limits in terms of the number of units, ability to play different sides in a scenario, ability to have specific unit names, etc. And, while the AI is difficult I'm coming to feel that it isn't terribly realistic.


The game play in Renaissance delights me now that I've started playing it again. The maps, the detailed OOBs, and the overall feel of the combat are so "on." for the era. Graphically it makes me weep, and that after I've done some modding. As wargames go, I'm finding I ultimately prefer playing it to playing Pike and Shot. Ultimately I'm after the depth.


If JTS would work on the graphics a bit, and release more games in the series focused on, say the Thirty Years War and the ECW, I'd be overjoyed. I think a lot of my initial positive reaction to P&S boils down to "Yay! A game that covers the TYW and ECW!" Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a fun game, and I believe it'll sell well. It's great for a few rounds of PBEM. For a serious student of the period though Tiller is the ticket.


Now, if only JTS were working on another Musket & Pike series game...

Am I right to say that Tiller Renaissance does not have mixed units and has smaller unit sizes?   Does that mean it is up to the player to actually mix up the gunners and pikes, set them in some formation, and actually delve into the "micro" tactics of the time?   If so then that is quite interesting.

[panzerde]

Am I right to say that Tiller Renaissance does not have mixed units and has smaller unit sizes?   Does that mean it is up to the player to actually mix up the gunners and pikes, set them in some formation, and actually delve into the "micro" tactics of the time?   If so then that is quite interesting.

Yes, that's exactly the case. A Spanish colunela for example would be made up of a pike unit or two, a couple units of arquebusiers and some swordsmen, for example.

[jomni]

I have embarked on a modding project.   I don't know how to do 3D objects so I will just reskin the default ones for now.
Haven't created the battles yet as I have to mod the units first so you still see the default scenarios in the campaign folder in the screens below.

[Rayfer]

In another thread someone suggested this game engine for a Warhammer and/or Warhammer 40K tactical game. I don't own Pike and Shot but I have played Battle Academy.  I think it might work.

[Asid]

I have embarked on a modding project.   I don't know how to do 3D objects so I will just reskin the default ones for now.
Haven't created the battles yet as I have to mod the units first so you still see the default scenarios in the campaign folder in the screens below.

Great news Jomni  :)

[Nefaro]

I have embarked on a modding project.   I don't know how to do 3D objects so I will just reskin the default ones for now.
Haven't created the battles yet as I have to mod the units first so you still see the default scenarios in the campaign folder in the screens below.

Excellent!

[Gusington]

Cool stuff Jomni.

[southern_cross_116]

If JTS would work on the graphics a bit, and release more games in the series focused on, say the Thirty Years War and the ECW, I'd be overjoyed.

With regards to the artwork -don't assume that it is not happening. ;) Saying no more on that one.  As for the second part- Rich Hamilton in reply to Micha I think, over on his own board some while back confirmed that there is work on a TYW title going on.

Now, if only JTS were working on another Musket & Pike series game...

See the above -and that is about the extent to which I am commenting on it.

[panzerde]

If JTS would work on the graphics a bit, and release more games in the series focused on, say the Thirty Years War and the ECW, I'd be overjoyed.

With regards to the artwork -don't assume that it is not happening. ;) Saying no more on that one.  As for the second part- Rich Hamilton in reply to Micha I think, over on his own board some while back confirmed that there is work on a TYW title going on.

Consider me overjoyed.  O0

[jomni]

My flag experiment is somewhat a success.  Guess the clan..