Panther Games Command Ops 2 Limited Time Offer Bundle Pack Coming Soon

bayonetbrant · March 15, 2015, 10:54:30 AM

Hey folks - I'm not going thru the entire forum to address stuff point by point, but I got off the phone with David H just 5 minutes ago. He's getting on a plane to Las Vegas for GTS right now and will pop in here when he gets a second after landing.

The plan is to give away the core game + 2 scenarios free for the first 90 days (at least) and keep them free for as long as possible after that.
This eliminates the need for a demo, because you get the full game + full manual for free (the initial manual is still in beta b/c Dave O is still going thru it, but they didn't want to hold up the game just for the manual)
Each 'scenario' pack - what was previously a full game like Highway to the Reich - will be a paid download (I think he mentioned $20-$50 or so, but don't hold me to that).

There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to turn this into a subscription model.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.

Don't ask me to clarify beyond that - I'm trying help David H out by getting some info out quickly while he's on a plane. He'll be along to answer questions when he can get some time around GTS, but this is a pretty busy few days for him and LNLP, so it might be a little bit before he can show up to answer.

Meanwhile, I'd recommend we all take a deep breath and dial back the speculation until we can get real answers. No point getting all foamed up at the mouth without the facts :)

Jarhead0331 · March 15, 2015, 10:55:27 AM

What is meant by "engine upgrade" anyway? Is this like a patch? If so, why isn't it free? If its more significant improvements to the core engine, why are these already planned in the future and not included in the v2.0 release from the beginning?

Ninja'ed by Brant...

smittyohio · March 15, 2015, 11:14:21 AM

Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 15, 2015, 10:54:30 AM
There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.

Thanks for the update... but I don't see how these 2 jive with what LnL and Arjuna have stated on their very own forums. Maybe they've scrapped their model and haven't posted it, but I sure didn't see it in the thread they were discussing pricing. My guess is it's going to be all semantics. If they do go ahead with this scheme, they are going to crash and burn. Either a) they will be supporting way too many versions of an engine / scenario pack combination, or most likely b) once they move on, you better move on with them or live with all the bugs in what you have.

This game just went from a must-buy for me to a ho-hum maybe I'll finally give Battlefront my money. Hopefully they can sway me back, but if not it's their loss.

smittyohio · March 15, 2015, 11:15:56 AM

LOL... deleted... I thought I was replying to a post today, not December :(

Cyrano · March 15, 2015, 11:27:46 AM

Foamed up sans facts is why Al Gore built the Internet with assistance from space aliens, right?

It's also why GMOs give you autism.

Oh, and close the Fed!

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Emir Agic · March 15, 2015, 12:05:51 PM

Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 15, 2015, 10:54:30 AM
There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to turn this into a subscription model.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.

From developers perspective this could be sustainable only if they can make new modules on regular basis. For example, when they upgrade engine, they will also upgrade existing modules for free, plus offer new module(s) for buying. In that case, if you don't want to expand your scenario portfolio just upgrade engine and scenarios you already have. On the other hand, if you want to play new module which for example contains east front scenarios, you will have to buy it. That would be reasonable. I hope Dave will clarify this.

I already have all modules for Command Ops I. Paying again $50 is not big deal for supporting further development but paying same (or any other) amount of money again and again for the same bunch of scenarios is not something that most customers will do.

smittyohio · March 15, 2015, 12:12:20 PM

Quote from: Cyrano on March 15, 2015, 11:27:46 AM
Foamed up sans facts is why Al Gore built the Internet with assistance from space aliens, right?

Well, to be fair, people aren't speculating sans facts, but by reading what the developer and publisher posted on their own site, although maybe not in a crystal clear fashion. If those facts have changed, so be it.

-budd- · March 15, 2015, 01:58:17 PM

here's the way i understand it. Engine upgrades free, small fee to upgrade your currently owned packs or you could choose not to upgrade your packs if your happy with them and then the selling of new data modules. With free engine upgrades version control shouldn't be an issue....right.

That being said i will be picking this up, i like the new changes and even if i don't buy anything else $49 for around 80 scenarios is a steal. I just don't know how the user created scenarios will fit in with the continuous engine upgrades.

smittyohio · March 15, 2015, 02:36:46 PM

Quote from: -budd- on March 15, 2015, 01:58:17 PM
here's the way i understand it. Engine upgrades free, small fee to upgrade your currently owned packs or you could choose not to upgrade your packs if your happy with them and then the selling of new data modules. With free engine upgrades version control shouldn't be an issue....right.

That being said i will be picking this up, i like the new changes and even if i don't buy anything else $49 for around 80 scenarios is a steal. I just don't know how the user created scenarios will fit in with the continuous engine upgrades.

Define "small fee"...

Quote from Arjuna: "Example. in the next twelve months we plan to put out CO2.0 and CO2.1 as major updates to the engine. If you want to keep your data modules up to date with each engine update then you will pay $50 to update them to 2.0 and another $50 for 2.1 - ie a total of $100."

Note what's not clear is if it's 50 per data module or 50 no matter how many you have. They really need to clearly define what their pricing scheme will be, and what their plans on supporting non-current versions of their engine and data packs is.

sandman2575 · March 15, 2015, 02:40:06 PM

I guess we'll wait to hear more, although it's hard to see how Brant's description squares with the model outlined by the other devs...

'Small fee to upgrade' I can live with. Essentially what Battlefront does -- pay for new modules (as is fair), small fee for engine upgrades I can stomach (whether 'fair' is debatable, but the 3.0 upgrade was $10, so again, not back breaking).

I'm all for supporting small indy devs who produce outstanding content, like Battlefront. I understand there's a certain premium this entails, and I'm willing to pay extra since games like CMx2 are so great. But there's just no way that re-charging full price for upgrades is a viable model. No way will I be purchasing the game under those circumstances.

bayonetbrant · March 15, 2015, 03:39:11 PM

QuoteQuote from Arjuna: "Example. in the next twelve months we plan to put out CO2.0 and CO2.1 as major updates to the engine. If you want to keep your data modules up to date with each engine update then you will pay $50 to update them to 2.0 and another $50 for 2.1 - ie a total of $100."

I think this is the info David H sent me a text message about saying "Dave {O'Connor} toss{ed} the idea around of a subscribstion service that idea was cancelled almost at once. I am guessing that is where that idea came from."

JasonPratt · March 15, 2015, 10:02:55 PM

All hail to Brant for getting some word back from a dev!

I'm not against regular support for ongoing development (if it's actual development and the support is proportional to the development, like small upgrade charges at BF every once in a while).

We'll get clear info from Dave or whoever soon. In the meantime, the worst case scenarios are:

1.) All the previous games still exist and are the previous games.

2.) The introductory bundle deal is still the introductory bundle deal, and is still being offered, and if they somehow go insane later that won't have changed: it isn't like what we buy tomorrow/this week will poof out of existence. We all agree the bundle is an acceptable deal, except for those people who aren't interested in what looks like paying again for some small upgrades and a platform changeover, and they weren't thinking of rebuying anyway, so what happens later along the same content is a moot point. (I mean to them.)

Rekim · March 16, 2015, 02:27:09 AM

I just checked the LnL website and noticed that the Bundle Pack was available. Couldn't help but pull the trigger.

I hadn't received the notification email from LnL that I signed up for yet, so assume I must have been one of the first in line. The transaction went smoothly and received confirmation/download link within a minute. Don't see a serial number yet and will have to wait until I get home from work and get some sleep before I try the download link. Now have some fun to look forward to on my days off (Monday/Tuesday). Perfect timing of the release for some 8)

Thomasew · March 16, 2015, 02:51:18 AM

Hi,

I also pulled the trigger, .. and purchased the whole thing, .. downloaded and installed.

The Serial Numbers are not sent to you. You need to login to your account, .. and check under Downloads.

.. all your Product Codes/Serial numbers will be listed there.

Cheers
Tom

Pinetree · March 16, 2015, 03:04:52 AM

For those of you that bought the whole shebang, the Situation maps are coming, I've completed the maps for Bastogne and I'm a quarter of the way through Ride of the Valkyries. I'm releasing them to Dave when I've done both as they are interlinked and I want to make sure there are no errors. Dave will then release them in a future patch.