CM: Black Sea Strategy Discussion Thread

[panzerde]

quick question for those who know and i that dont

advancing to contact - i realise now why ive never played a mechanised force in CM - i dont know how to advance to contact in them!

When do you get out? be it strykers, bdms, bradleys, how far do you go forward before thinking, 'wed better get out in case we get blown up', and then use the vehicle as infantry back up

is it on contact (which seems a bit late to me), or some arbitrary point you decide, or is it a cleverly sought spot out of LOS and then send recon out from there?

Technically on CMBS/CMSF sized maps, you really are already in contact or the chance of contact is imminent. I treat the situation as already in contact and potentially observed.

In open terrain where you think contact is imminent get some scouts out and try and put the IFVs in a hull down overwatch position, or, it there's no good ground, get them hidden. I'll usually then have my infantry dismount and deploy, hidden, to the front of the IFVs. Use plenty of dismounted scouts to try and find the bad guys. Once the scouts get out far enough you should start advancing the infantry and IFVs by bounds. If you have a lot of territory to cover, have the infantry mount up, move the bounding IFV, and then dismount again when the IFVs are in an overwatch position. Then move the remaining IFVs by a similar bound. Once you have the IFVs in a position where they can target the objective (particularly Bradleys with TOWs!) leave them there and advance just the dismounts. IFVs suck as tanks.

In built up areas, get out of the IFVs and advance with the dismounts. Keep the IFVs back where they can provide fire support on some initial objectives. Don't move the IFVs into the built up area until you're sure it's clear. Then check again, because there's always some jerk with an RPG somewhere you thought you cleared.

If you are moving up with the IFVs, seek a covered route, and don't leave cover with the IFVs until you have dismounted scouts out. Use your drones to try and find the bad guys before you move up.

If you feel you have to assault, cover the area with smoke and HE and move in fast. Pop more smoke from the IFVs and dismount into the smoke, and then get the IFVs back to a support position. You'll probably still lose some, but that should give you a better chance than not.

If possible, get some real armor in overwatch. Modern AFVs can kill stuff in poor visibility conditions clear across the map. If a bad guy pops up to shoot an AFV with a good target arc will often get him.

In general, don't move IFVs with mounted troops in them anywhere you aren't pretty sure they can't be shot at if you can avoid it. They are just too fragile. Sometimes, you have to, but you are almost certainly going to get some blowed up.

[Cyrano]

I'll only add that it's a process that requires practice and patience.  Practice for figuring out where that "right" moment to dismount is and patience for the many times you'll get out too early and either have your troops hoof it far farther than they should have had to or you wind up dismounting, walking, remounting, driving, dismounting, walking, &c.

As Doug suggests, though, if you're trying to dismount under fire, it is the bad day.

[mikeck]

I'll only add that it's a process that requires practice and patience.  Practice for figuring out where that "right" moment to dismount is and patience for the many times you'll get out too early and either have your troops hoof it far farther than they should have had to or you wind up dismounting, walking, remounting, driving, dismounting, walking, &c.

As Doug suggests, though, if you're trying to dismount under fire, it is the bad day.

I always...always pop smoke when I stop my vehicle to dismount. If I am dismounting my soldiers, it's because I think I may take heavy fire so why not

[fabius]

I'll only add that it's a process that requires practice and patience.  Practice for figuring out where that "right" moment to dismount is and patience for the many times you'll get out too early and either have your troops hoof it far farther than they should have had to or you wind up dismounting, walking, remounting, driving, dismounting, walking, &c.

As Doug suggests, though, if you're trying to dismount under fire, it is the bad day.

I always...always pop smoke when I stop my vehicle to dismount. If I am dismounting my soldiers, it's because I think I may take heavy fire so why not

I pop smoke like that sometimes. But smoke ammo is finite. So if I suspect enemy in nearby locations that may open up- they get the platoon's IFV fire, or brief fire as a prep that stops just before the dismounts are near.

Edited: just mid a company attack now, and 5x BMP3 prepping the edge of a wood line, with other company assets in over watch was a beautiful and awesome sight 

[mikeck]

Yes, but if you have several vehicles in Column or close together, one smoke pop from one vehicle covers a wide area. I just alternate vehicles and try to keep them in mutual support. But yeah, smoke is pretty limited unfortunately.

[fabius]

Yes, but if you have several vehicles in Column or close together, one smoke pop from one vehicle covers a wide area. I just alternate vehicles and try to keep them in mutual support. But yeah, smoke is pretty limited unfortunately.

Nice tip, will use that one.

Also, the game models types of smoke, regular and IR block. But some of the top stuff can still see through the black IR smoke.

[JudgeDredd]

is smoke that limited in rl? Do they lack reloads?

[mikeck]

is smoke that limited in rl? Do they lack reloads?

Yes. 1-2 pops a vehicle I find. 1 for infantry. If you have mortar support, you can drop rounds also. I use the mortars for large movements -4-5 shells, and the vehicle smoke for retreating or disembarking

[fabius]

Just don't drop smoke too close to friendlies as it's WP 

[Con]

I am getting murdered by MANPADS any suggestions on how to limit their effectiveness?  They shot down my drones so I cant spot them wit ht at they are widely dispersed either behind buildings or in valleys so I cant spot them with my troops so I am not able to bring Arty fire down on them and so far I have lost three drones and an AH64 and now an F15 to them.  Its not a good day to be flying for the US. 

The scenario is Bridgehead at Kharalyk.  I spotted Russian Tanguskas and I took at least two of them out with precision munitions.  Then I lost the drones.  My last foray I had an RQ-7B shadow drone paired up with an F15.  I was planning on using the F15 to suppress a hilltop where I suspected their might be some MANPADS thinking that the F15 would have a better chance of surviving them.  Also I figured that either the drone or the F15 would draw fire from the other.  Instead I get two separate MANPAD launches (in the spots I mentioned) that KO the drone and the F15 in the same turn.....was I just unlucky or are these things that lethal?

Interesting puzzle and I was hoping to see how you guys cope with them.
Con

[jomni]

This advice is for QB. I seldom buy air assets because of this. Just use more arty which cannot be intercepted.

[Skoop]

The air support vs manpads sounds wrong.  F-15s wouldn't drop below 20,000 which is out of manpad range.  If BF is going to model the airwar, they should have added sead missions to take out the enemies SAM capability.  Also, I'm not sure the game handles the air craft right, I notice they overfly right into the threat zone rather than use standoff weapons from safety.

[fabius]

The air support vs manpads sounds wrong.  F-15s wouldn't drop below 20,000 which is out of manpad range.  If BF is going to model the airwar, they should have added sead missions to take enemies SAM capability.  Also, I'm not sure the game handles the air craft right, I notice they overfly right into the threat zone rather than use standoff weapons from safety.

I think that above 20k is fighting Afghan, insurgent. Modern Russia has capable AD assets, the BUK can destroy aerodynamic targets with a maximum speed of 830m/s flying at an altitude between 0.015km and 25km, and within 3km to 45km range. let alone the S300 and S400

NAP at least offers some defence, and stealth is the big ?; but those assets would have operational assignments early war, and that's presuming the West impose local Air Superiority at some point latter in a hot war.

[Skoop]

That's why I suggested modeling sead missions because of radar guided AA now in game.  Once those threats are neutral, then the standard 20,000 to avoid manpads applies.

[fabius]

That's why I suggested modeling sead missions because of radar guided AA now in game.  Once those threats are neutral, then the standard 20,000 to avoid manpads applies.

Ah, yes I see. Yes SEAD, and other AD attrit assets would have an impact, just likely not the sort that a blanket 20k total air supremacy would allow. I'm not up to date with developments, but  last I read around the likelihood is that Air Supremacy is uncertain, and a high threat environment would remain.

Two caveats, 1. US/NATO would likely be able to achieve local superiority when and when for periods. 2. The Devs stated they don't want mission creep in the game away from the tactical battle focus.

Re-read your post.. Oops, yeah they would likely use stand-off much more, but I guess they made some balance decisions like the one to leave MLRS out