Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords

Martok · June 02, 2015, 03:38:35 PM

The Mongols are coming...

Philippe · June 02, 2015, 04:43:05 PM

What I find discouraging about this is that every time they come out with a major upgrade they manage to make such a bug-ridden mess of the existing game that it takes two or three patches to sort out. This confirms my suspicion that CK II and EU IV will never really be in a stable playable condition for very long.

Having said that, the Mongol expansion is good news. Not only will the Mongols be a lot of fun to play, but given who and where they are the game is going to eventually be extended to China. This period of Chinese history may not be as much fun as Three Kindoms, the Han Empire, and Warring States, but it will still be a blast, especially when the action starts to include Vietnam and Korea.

jomni · June 02, 2015, 05:26:25 PM

I only have vanilla CKII so far. How well do they cover non-western nobility? Or is it just "Count / Duke / King" in another name?

Philippe · June 02, 2015, 06:40:42 PM

I usually play medieval Europeans because that's what the game is supposed to be good at. Having said that, when you get outside of Europe it often looks like Count/Duke/King by another name, but often it turns out that it isn't quite that.

What makes the game entertaining from one iteration to the next is the extent to which they keep fleshing out the religions and heresies, and there are a lot of both. I've had a lot of fun with weird little tribal chieftans in central and eastern Europe who have to come to terms with a world in which all of their neighbors are converting to one thing or another. One of these days I'm going to try a family of Jains in the subcontinent.

I have every confidence that they won't do a perfect graduate school level interpretation of what they're supposed to be portraying, but they will manage to get passing marks for advanced undergraduates. And given the abysmal content of most of what else is out there, that's very, very good.

I still can't get over the fact that the game makes a distinction between Monophysites and Miaphysites.

JasonPratt · June 02, 2015, 06:42:44 PM

Philippe, and even monothelites!

I haven't played any culture farther east than Socotra, which is Middle Eastern Christian; but my impression from seeing how the game gave me options for relating to (other?) non-western countries was that they translate the game mechanics into a generic feudalism everywhere.

Nefaro · June 02, 2015, 06:53:44 PM

Being mostly Feudal systems, it makes sense. They do have cultural and religious differences for some of the more populous ones represented in some ways, though. Plus the merchant kingdoms.

Maybe if they go far enough into China, we'll see some nutty DLC about a seaborne Aztec invasion across the Pacific?

Gusington · June 02, 2015, 06:57:43 PM

Oh dear.

jomni · June 02, 2015, 08:41:15 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on June 02, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Being mostly Feudal systems, it makes sense. They do have cultural and religious differences for some of the more populous ones represented in some ways, though. Plus the merchant kingdoms.

Maybe if they go far enough into China, we'll see some nutty DLC about a seaborne Aztec invasion across the Pacific?

Go far out to Japan and remake Sengoku. But time frame is pre-sengoku jidai. Japan is Feudal.

To properly do the far east, one must actually simulate the Chinese Tributary System. Go look that up in wiki.

I think China is not so Feudal at this time but have to check. As social classes in China are a bit different. One can move up the ladder by passing the government exams. Don't necessarily need to own land to make it big. Just become a scholar. Sometimes the military profession is looked down upon. Maybe Paradox should do a separate game. But cool if it were combined.

Not to mention all the poltical intrigue with scheming eunuchs and concubines.

But go back a few centuries, then China would be more Feudal with the various warring states periods.

jomni · June 02, 2015, 08:58:20 PM

Apparently the CK2 time frame is China's golden age... the Song dynasty. it may include Mongol rule as well (Yuan Dynasty).

chinese nobility
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nobility

Nefaro · June 02, 2015, 10:51:43 PM

I was referring to the factions currently in there.

Are they actually going to add China in this DLC? I thought it was just being able to "pop in" with a horde on the current map. ^-^

jomni · June 03, 2015, 12:36:56 AM

Quote from: Nefaro on June 02, 2015, 10:51:43 PM
I was referring to the factions currently in there.

Are they actually going to add China in this DLC? I thought it was just being able to "pop in" with a horde on the current map. ^-^

I doubt they're going to do china anyway

Kushan · June 03, 2015, 12:41:40 AM

Been awhile since I've played CK2 but I'll still probably pick this up day one.

Quote from: Philippe on June 02, 2015, 04:43:05 PM
What I find discouraging about this is that every time they come out with a major upgrade they manage to make such a bug-ridden mess of the existing game that it takes two or three patches to sort out. This confirms my suspicion that CK II and EU IV will never really be in a stable playable condition for very long.

While I agree that Paradox has broken CK2 with DLC on more than one occasion, I've yet to see them do the same with EUIV. EUIV has had some bugs but nothing game breaking.

Since they just expanded the map to include India a few DLC's ago I don't see them expanding it again to include China in this DLC.

Nefaro · June 03, 2015, 09:39:54 AM

I'd rather they create a new series for Asia, as Jomni suggested. They could encompass a lot of stuff between China, Japan, Korea, etc.

I really hoped their Sengoku game would get a sequel with the full-on CK2 treatment. I think it would plug right into the mechanics quite easily, just needing the whole setting flavor changed.

jomni · June 03, 2015, 10:28:38 PM

Quote from: Nefaro on June 03, 2015, 09:39:54 AM
I'd rather they create a new series for Asia, as Jomni suggested. They could encompass a lot of stuff between China, Japan, Korea, etc.

I really hoped their Sengoku game would get a sequel with the full-on CK2 treatment. I think it would plug right into the mechanics quite easily, just needing the whole setting flavor changed.

And introduce hostage exchange as a diplomatic tool and institutionalized polygamy (if it's not in the game already)

Nefaro · June 03, 2015, 11:27:15 PM

Quote from: jomni on June 03, 2015, 10:28:38 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on June 03, 2015, 09:39:54 AM
I'd rather they create a new series for Asia, as Jomni suggested. They could encompass a lot of stuff between China, Japan, Korea, etc.

I really hoped their Sengoku game would get a sequel with the full-on CK2 treatment. I think it would plug right into the mechanics quite easily, just needing the whole setting flavor changed.

And introduce hostage exchange as a diplomatic tool and institutionalized polygamy (if it's not in the game already)

There has been a Ransom mechanic in the game for awhile. There should also be a Hostage system because that was a diplomatic practice also used in feudal Europe, but I don't think they really have it modelled much in CK2 if at all.

Polygamy is already in there after the Islamic DLC was added early on.

Like I said, most of actual game mechanics are already there. It would just need a content replacement to move it over. Still a lot of work with but not near as much as a brand new one.