Greece Votes Communist

[Boggit]

^Jejo said 'none of the people going to Germany are refugees' - which is false. Some are.

You're right Gus, but in fairness to Jejo, the overwhelming majority coming from Turkey do not qualify for that status any more. LB's comment about the family that lost their child says a lot about the real truth, which is that most are economic settlers/colonists. It has also been suggested that about 70% of the colonists coming via Europe are single young men, and not the families with cute kids that the media focus on.

Exactly why Germany feels the need to invite in 800k, well, I don't know. It almost seems as if the German government wants to set up a social crisis.

A very good question. A lot of ordinary people in Europe, not least in Germany are trying to figure that one out. The experience of mass migration in Sweden and France from colonists that won't integrate I would think would give any rational person pause for thought.

The problem is that the media has made the whole issue an emotive one, and are not considering the long term social, and economic impacts for their own populations. There is a big issue over the boy sadly drowned in the Aegean, but hundreds of illegals have drowned just off the Libyan coast and no one has really batted an eye until this photoshot. Why is this one boy so special, that governments are bowing to the media?

I don't oppose managed, reasonable, immigration by people who do it lawfully, and I think there are exceptions even when it is done unlawfully on a case by case basis, but this isn't generally the scenario faced by mass migration in Europe. Here you have people demanding citizenship, irrespective of what they do, so long as they get what they want. There is a huge amount of crime associated with the illegals, which is inconvenient to the media agenda as "off message". France and Sweden have huge problems stemming from their own migration policies. A friend of mine in Italy, who says frankly he's sympathetic to the migrants as they are very poor, but also comments that they have filled the detention centres and prisons. He went on to say that around 15% of Italians are pushing for the army to hunt down illegals and shoot them, though clearly that's not about to happen anytime soon. He's very uncomfortable about that, but doesn't see the Italian government being able to control the situation either. The extreme right are being gifted this issue by governments across Europe that are caving into the media. The one government that has tried to register the colonists is Hungary, and look at all the flak they get for trying to make the illegals observe the law and cooperate with their authorities. It hasn't happened yet in the UK, but I am concerned that normal, rational, not particularly politically motivated people across Europe are getting very worried.

Of course the political élites, and the wealthy live in another world to ordinary citizens. Ordinary citizens are lacking the means to have their concerns heard, hence their fears are ignored, and they are getting angry. Is it the fault of the colonists who can see more opportunity in Europe? No. It is the fault of the governments failures to stand up and take control of the situation (Hungary is an exception), rather than just kowtow to the media.

[jejo68]

Not only that boggit. The entire concept of the Schengen is that the borders are open internally but closed externally. And look at what happened to Hungary when they tried to actually close the border.

Also as to the citizen being worried. I have talked to alot of ordinary citizens who are getting more and more upset, and im afraid that its just a matter of time before the entire mess explode.

[Boggit]

Not only that boggit. The entire concept of the Schengen is that the borders are open internally but closed externally. And look at what happened to Hungary when they tried to actually close the border.

Exactly!

[Gusington]

The floodgates are open and there doesn't appear to be any will within EU governments to stop it. Even if there was the will, it would result in the deaths of 10s of 1000s.

Honestly I have not seen talk of civil war anywhere but here. But coverage of this here in the US is limited to crocodile tears.

[Boggit]

The floodgates are open and there doesn't appear to be any will within EU governments to stop it. Even if there was the will, it would result in the deaths of 10s of 1000s.

Honestly I have not seen talk of civil war anywhere but here. But coverage of this here in the US is limited to crocodile tears.

It's a possible scenario. I know Sauron thinks civil war is a distinct possibility in France. When you consider that 25% of French voters voted for the Front National (the French far right), you realise that the French government is losing the issue to the far right. I don't suppose for a moment that so many French people actually support the full breadth of far right policies. I think it is evidence that they feel more 'moderate' parties don't take their concerns seriously, preferring to write them off, or silence them as "racists", or "Nazi's" rather than address their genuine concerns about immigration and integration.

Long term it's stupid of 'moderate' governments not to engage seriously on the issues, and concerns of many of their citizens, as it plays directly into the hands of the far right who will be the only ones taking ownership of the issue in the minds of many ordinary people. And you can be sure this fear will be exploited for their own ends.... see the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece, for example.

If this goes badly wrong in Europe, it will be bad for everyone. Don't think for a minute that it is in the interest of the US to just stand by and let it happen.

[OJsDad]

Boggit, everything you said in your last post can be applied to the US.  Those here that oppose illegal immigration are labeled racists and are tried to be minimalized.  All the while people at the bottom end of the economy wonder why they cannot get ahead.  Heck, our current leadership refuses to even deport those here illegally that are committing other crimes and are caught by local law enforcement.  Wait until that starts happening in Europe. 

I will say this though.  Our illegals are less likely to commit terrorist activities than those flooding Europe.  And a lot, if not most, seem to be here for economic reasons and are willing to try and help themselves.

[jejo68]

Boggit, everything you said in your last post can be applied to the US.  Those here that oppose illegal immigration are labeled racists and are tried to be minimalized.  All the while people at the bottom end of the economy wonder why they cannot get ahead.  Heck, our current leadership refuses to even deport those here illegally that are committing other crimes and are caught by local law enforcement.  Wait until that starts happening in Europe. 

I will say this though.  Our illegals are less likely to commit terrorist activities than those flooding Europe.  And a lot, if not most, seem to be here for economic reasons and are willing to try and help themselves.

Its happening here already. You have criminal immigrants that are not being deported even though they have every right to do so under the law.
Its even so fucked up that people seeking asylum can commit crimes and it will not affect their application. Just a couple month ago a guy tried to rape a 10 yo and he is still here and it will not have any affect on if he gets asylum or not when he is released from jail.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

The floodgates are open and there doesn't appear to be any will within EU governments to stop it. Even if there was the will, it would result in the deaths of 10s of 1000s.

Honestly I have not seen talk of civil war anywhere but here. But coverage of this here in the US is limited to crocodile tears.

It's a possible scenario. I know Sauron thinks civil war is a distinct possibility in France. When you consider that 25% of French voters voted for the Front National (the French far right), you realise that the French government is losing the issue to the far right. I don't suppose for a moment that so many French people actually support the full breadth of far right policies. I think it is evidence that they feel more 'moderate' parties don't take their concerns seriously, preferring to write them off, or silence them as "racists", or "Nazi's" rather than address their genuine concerns about immigration and integration.

Long term it's stupid of 'moderate' governments not to engage seriously on the issues, and concerns of many of their citizens, as it plays directly into the hands of the far right who will be the only ones taking ownership of the issue in the minds of many ordinary people. And you can be sure this fear will be exploited for their own ends.... see the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece, for example.

If this goes badly wrong in Europe, it will be bad for everyone. Don't think for a minute that it is in the interest of the US to just stand by and let it happen.

How can it not go badly wrong? Germany is saying they will take 800,000 this year? How the hell do you assemble even shantytown barracks for 1/2 a million people with winter hitting in a few months? Through out Europe there will be a million in tents through winter? At the same time AQ's leader, al fucktard is calling young males to attack?

Just the news that so many are being taken will drive many times more to start their trek. Syria was 36 million. What if 1/4 start to move? The same for Libya, etc.

This is a biblical level disaster in the making. Except a few thousand people was a big city in biblical times.

Greece said they would let a tidal wave of people over the border if they did not get their financing. It seems they are carrying out their threat.

[OJsDad]

I'm not saying that Greece isn't causing some issues, but I have to wonder how much control they really have.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Any guesses on how many beds of pneumonia, etc will start to be taken in all EU hospitals?

You think it is getting ugly now, wait till February.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Every country has to govern its borders, that is a basic proof that they are the real government.

The solution is taking EU government to Syria and Libya, not bringing the Middle East mess to the EU. You need something like a 20 mile strip along the Turkey border run by NATO, secured by NATO. Build new EU control there.

I don't see any way to dump this load of people into Europe with no services for them.

[OJsDad]

Biggs, the problem is that European Liberals haven't given a damn in 20 years.  Longer than that, but it's just in the last 20 years of so that they have gained enough influence to dictate policy.  If they really cared, they would have been dealing with this for the last couple of years. 

Maybe they hoped that if they stayed out of it, the problem would never come knocking.  Well, the problem has broken down the down, and the solution seems to be to hide upstairs.  And if the US continues with the same leadership that we've had, then it will not get any better.

How much longer before we start to see a stream of Europeans immigrating to the US and Canada trying to escape the religious wars in Europe.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'm with you OJD, this is a good example of Obama's hands off foreign policy not necessarily resulting in better outcomes than more active policies. It really has been festering too long.

[Sir Slash]

Meanwhile Saudi Arabia which has a massive air-conditioned tent city outside Mecca has taken..... zero?

[jomni]

Meanwhile Saudi Arabia which has a massive air-conditioned tent city outside Mecca has taken..... zero?

Don't think they want to step into Saudi Arabia in the first place.