Tigers on the Hunt

[Zulu1966]

thx BJ, hotseat is important to me as I can play both sides with equal skill, thanks for adding hotseat

Yep. Single most important thing thing for me. Will be a definite buy for me,  even if only to support the effort that's gone into it and what the future might bring. It's not an RTS so a couple of clicks here and there doesn't phase me.

[Rayfer]

thx BJ, hotseat is important to me as I can play both sides with equal skill, thanks for adding hotseat

Yep. Single most important thing thing for me. Will be a definite buy for me,  even if only to support the effort that's gone into it and what the future might bring. It's not an RTS so a couple of clicks here and there doesn't phase me.

Good point Zulu....a few clicks here and there in a turn based game is far better than the endless clicks many rts games require.

[gameleaper]

wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)

If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.

devs = 1 developer only = Me :)

Expected release date is early February 2016

its early feb now :)

[BlackJaguar]

wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)

If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.

devs = 1 developer only = Me :)

Expected release date is early February 2016

its early feb now :)

Sorry I don't have an exact date...all I know is February :)

[TacticalWargames]

This game HAS to offer more than the other tac games out there. If it is going for the ASL feel then it HAS to be as detailed and as indepth as that's what makes ASL. If it isn't then it will just be an average tac wargame that really offers nothing new. I really think if your going for these type of graphics then the gameplay has to be superb otherwise it will get it from all sides once released.

So fingers crossed this does have all that detail ASL offers..though I do get worried when you here things like hedges and walls aren't in the game.

Now if at the moment it doesn't have loads of detail then I really think release should be put back to make sure it really does have everything an ASL player would want and offer the PC wargamer something far more indepth and detaile dover what's gone before. Otherwise what is the point?

Sorry if his sounds negative. I just wnat to see a tactical game offering the things others haven't done and not one that offers the same or less even.

[magnus]

I am not trying to stir the pot, but here goes.

This is not ASL ported to the computer.

This is one mans game built and somewhat based on ASL and probably Tobruk and a few other board games thrown in.

The purists will have to bite the bullet and either like the game for itself or not like it because it is not 100% ASL.

This is also not a gaming company or even a few gents, it is one man's vision of a tactical game.

I think the game has plenty to stand on it's own without even mentioning ASL.

[Boggit]

I had high hopes that LnL: Heroes of Stalingrad would be something great, but I could never get into it. I always felt like I was fighting the game mechanics rather than the scenario battle itself. The screen shots of Tiger on the Hunt remind me of that game so I'm hoping it won't have the same issues. So it's with guarded optimism that I await its release.

I pretty much felt the same about LnL: HoS. Not really my cup of tea in the end. My concern with TotH is how it will compare with the likes of John Tiller's Squad Battles series? Graphically it looks very nice, but Squad Battles contains a wealth of detail, which may or may not be present with TotH. To me that looks like a main competitor to BJ's game (Hi BJ, nice to see you on the forum). If BJ is familiar with the SB system, it will be good to know how he thinks his game rivals Squad Battles.

[Richie61]

I have played both a games (SB and TotH) and other than being a squad based combat game, they are different. I love both games  :D

Course TotH has all the same content that SB has if you buy Eagles Strike, Advance of the Reich and Red Victory for roughly $120 for these 3 JT titles  ;)

[BlackJaguar]

I have played both a games (SB and TotH) and other than being a squad based combat game, they are different. I love both games  :D

Course TotH has all the same content that SB has if you buy Eagles Strike, Advance of the Reich and Red Victory for roughly $120 for these 3 JT titles  ;)

Right, you the man Rtchie61!!!  ;)

[Zonso]

Initially a little hyped with this game, but after reading the AAR posted on the Matrix forum I am now meh about the whole thing. I agree with TacticalWargames, if you are not going to bring something new to the table then what's the hook? For me it is reminiscent of SL/COI, and perhaps it is an IP issue, but there seems to be so much not there to make this a compelling game.

There are no walls, no multi story buildings, no concealment, instant spotting etc. What other tactical intricacies are missing that are not evident yet? From a gameplay point of view why no multiplayer? Really? That's a true deal breaker for me. It seems there is no campaign either. For a positive, the AAR does show well fire, suppression and movement. Not sure about close combat, typically over emphasized in board games.

I want to be constructive in criticism but looking at the playing field this seems a little thin. 15 years ago it probably would have been a smash hit, today not so sure. Without a demo to try and likely with Matrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.

[Cyrano]

This broaches a topic of constant fascination to me, viz.:  whether PC games Jedi-mind-trick board wargamers into thinking they're less complex than they are.

While nothing compares to the perverse (yes, I said it) granular complexity of ASL, which I take to be a form of ludatory masochism, surely any of the Tiller SB games, CoH, and LnL's title can rival the complexity of the original SL, Band of Brothers, Combat Commander, &c.?  But, because so much of the rule reading, chart-looking, and dice rolling is under the hood, we convince ourselves that it's less genuine, less groggy.

Lacking MP as this game does, it's a non-starter for me, but I think there's this boardgame bogeyman lurking in many of our booze-addled minds that unfairly disadvantages this offering in other ways.

[Richie61]

Lets put everything on a level field and say that "TacticalWargames" was a beta tester and quit early into the testing.  ;) Fair is fair. I read his post as sounding like he has no idea what is in it and how it plays. Either it wasn't his cup of tea or he was too busy in real life to continue, but he knows the basic idea of TotH.

I was a beta tester.  :) I asked Peter about lots of things about TotH during testing. 

You can ask Peter this one. Since before I was picked for beta testing, I was doing PM's to Peter about the game and I have been asking him about PBEM. He explained it to me and how the files would need to be passed between players ten fold. If a unit see another unit, then the game pauses to  offer OP fire every time. If you have 20 units in a game and you are moving them, you could get 20 PLUS pauses (files sent one way) just for OP fire/ spotting. It the same as a board game. These files are not "turns" like in Squad Battles.

A game turn is divided into two parts, and each part is comprised of 8 segments. There are segments are done by both the "attacker" as well as the "defender". Some segments are performed by the "attacker" only and some by "defender" only.

I tried a "test" of PBEM like Sqaud Battles and sent files to myself. It was painful with LOTS of files and swapping and sending files to my e-mail. He was right. This isn't like turns in Combat Mission, Panzer Commander or Squad Battles.

Yeah, I want MP too. Maybe Matrix server play can happen someday. I hope so.

I too would like to see more features. But every game is missing this or that. I have 1135 PBEM Squad Battles games under my belt. Is Squad Battles correct and have everything? No.
God view? You can click a hex to see if the other side can see the hex and thus let you move there without being seen or be in LOS. No multi story buildings. Vehicle armor is based on two data numbers
and use a % of the front armor (which isn't correct) to calculate side/ rear/ top armor data. Gun isn't based on real data.

Every game has Pro's and Con's. Everyone.

Peter has been VERY upfront with what TotH does or doesn't do. No smoke and mirrors. It's a yes or no. If it's a "no", he will tell you why. It's not a blanket "no" and move on.

As for this:

Matrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.

I have every HPS/ JT Squad Battles games, some PzC, Panzer Battles and if I didn't find them "used", I paid $39.99 every time. You pay $39.99 for SB Vietnam today for a game released in 2001.  ;)

At the end of the day, we play games for the fun or enjoyment.  :)

[Zonso]

This broaches a topic of constant fascination to me, viz.:  whether PC games Jedi-mind-trick board wargamers into thinking they're less complex than they are.

While nothing compares to the perverse (yes, I said it) granular complexity of ASL, which I take to be a form of ludatory masochism, surely any of the Tiller SB games, CoH, and LnL's title can rival the complexity of the original SL, Band of Brothers, Combat Commander, &c.?  But, because so much of the rule reading, chart-looking, and dice rolling is under the hood, we convince ourselves that it's less genuine, less groggy.

Lacking MP as this game does, it's a non-starter for me, but I think there's this boardgame bogeyman lurking in many of our booze-addled minds that unfairly disadvantages this offering in other ways.

Not sure if the above is just a general comment or directed at someone, but I have puzzled over that also indirectly. My only boardgaming now is done with the 'social' types of games with the family. The human interactions but also the physical components and actions are tangible and are intrinsic to the experience imo. If I dig back through the memory banks to my old SL wargaming era, I think that was partly the same - the physical actions of playing the game, rolling dice, looking up charts, referencing rules etc were enjoyable in themselves to certain degrees and vital for the experience. A direct port of a boardgame or rules to the computer removes that physical aspect almost completely, revealing all the underpinnings helps, but if just a black box then there is a vague uneasiness and sterile feeling. Removing MP just kills it dead, for me anyways. There needs to be a hook, an attachment to the experience.

Anyways, I recall playing a beta CMBO battle with Peter fifteen years ago and over the usual email banter being somewhat surprised at his dissatisfaction with it then and the desire then to make his own ASL type game. I think overlooked was the move to 3D was the hook for the black box underneath and was a success for that. I don't see that here with this offering but I'm just one person. Regardless, kudos and congratulations for following through with your dreams.

[Zulu1966]

Lets put everything on a level field and say that "TacticalWargames" was a beta tester and quit early into the testing.  ;) Fair is fair. I read his post as sounding like he has no idea what is in it and how it plays. Either it wasn't his cup of tea or he was too busy in real life to continue, but he knows the basic idea of TotH.

I was a beta tester.  :) I asked Peter about lots of things about TotH during testing. 

You can ask Peter this one. Since before I was picked for beta testing, I was doing PM's to Peter about the game and I have been asking him about PBEM. He explained it to me and how the files would need to be passed between players ten fold. If a unit see another unit, then the game pauses to  offer OP fire every time. If you have 20 units in a game and you are moving them, you could get 20 PLUS pauses (files sent one way) just for OP fire/ spotting. It the same as a board game. These files are not "turns" like in Squad Battles.

A game turn is divided into two parts, and each part is comprised of 8 segments. There are segments are done by both the "attacker" as well as the "defender". Some segments are performed by the "attacker" only and some by "defender" only.

I tried a "test" of PBEM like Sqaud Battles and sent files to myself. It was painful with LOTS of files and swapping and sending files to my e-mail. He was right. This isn't like turns in Combat Mission, Panzer Commander or Squad Battles.

Yeah, I want MP too. Maybe Matrix server play can happen someday. I hope so.

I too would like to see more features. But every game is missing this or that. I have 1135 PBEM Squad Battles games under my belt. Is Squad Battles correct and have everything? No.
God view? You can click a hex to see if the other side can see the hex and thus let you move there without being seen or be in LOS. No multi story buildings. Vehicle armor is based on two data numbers
and use a % of the front armor (which isn't correct) to calculate side/ rear/ top armor data. Gun isn't based on real data.

Every game has Pro's and Con's. Everyone.

Peter has been VERY upfront with what TotH does or doesn't do. No smoke and mirrors. It's a yes or no. If it's a "no", he will tell you why. It's not a blanket "no" and move on.

As for this:

Matrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.

I have every HPS/ JT Squad Battles games, some PzC, Panzer Battles and if I didn't find them "used", I paid $39.99 every time. You pay $39.99 for SB Vietnam today for a game released in 2001.  ;)

At the end of the day, we play games for the fun or enjoyment.  :)

This makes an interesting point. Many computer games actually take detail out - like proper player directed op fire - simply to accommodate multiplayer. They lose fidelity some boardgames have into the bargain. If you look at the GTS series boardgames from MMP - these would simply not be made the same way as a computer game simply to accommodate the exchange of PBEM files - yet it is a much better system for it than for example the Pnz Campaigns series - which either lets units waltz right up to an enemy or fall back on what seems an entirely random AI directed defensive fire.

So - lack of multiplayer doesn't bother me. The graphics are fine. And if by buying this now I get walls and multi story buildings later - then I will. Cause if I don't - I definitely wont.

[ArizonaTank]

I'm not looking for ASL by another name, and will let the title stand on its own merits.

But PBEM is something that interests me, so lack of that is definitely a strike.