Question for Jomni, PanzersEast or other Flight Simmers

[jomni]

Air Hauler 2 features list
http://www.slideshare.net/richardslater777/presentation1-27452148

[Toonces]

Two things tonight.

1.  In case you aren't aware (I wasn't), JustFlight has a free B757 on their website for download (Freemium 757).  The jet is completely free and comes in the British Airways skin; there is also a free American skin for download.  You can buy additional skins for about $3 for two (they come packaged) or you can buy all of the skins for about $30.  I picked up a Delta skin for $3.  It's a nice jet, but it's not nearly as high quality as PMDG.  However, for the price you can't go wrong.

2.  What are some good PMDG-level payware aircraft (airliners and regionals)?  I'm trying to find alternative planes to fly that I am eligible to get rated in in my virtual airline.  I'm qualified in the 737 and MD-80 series, and can go for ratings in the 727, 757, Airbus 320 series, CRJ regional jet series.  I'm also rated in the ERJ-175/195 and am eligible for the smaller versions.

I'm looking at the Captain Sim 727, FeelThere ERJ's, and the Airbus X Extended.  But I'm flexible if there's something better out there.

Like, I enjoy the PMDG 737 a lot, and I have several additional payware planes (JustFlight 757, CLS MD-81/82/87, JF Constellation) but none of them are nearly as well done as the PMDG planes. 

[Toonces]

Here's the Freemium 757.  You really get a sense of the size of the plane next to the 737's.

[jomni]

I think aerosoft A320 is the best. Not PMDG level because it does not have dialed failure model and recovery. But normal flight is just about as detailed as it gets. You'll really like it.  Another one is Black Box A320 (no experience with that).

Feel There ERJ and E-Jets are also good. The panel graphics are showing their age though.

Best prop liner is Majestic Dash 8 Q400.

[Toonces]

I'm looking at the Ultimate Airliners DC-9 Classic...any experience with that?  It looks pretty nice.

http://www.justflight.com/product/ultimate-airliners-dc-9-classic-boxed

[jomni]

Dunno.  I don't fly classics. But for classic planes, it's hard to compare with PMDG level because those have less sophisticated avionics.

[Tuna]

Question for you PMDG experts... I plugged a flight in for KBOS to KJFK.. using a flight I got from simroutes..

SSOXS LUCOS SEY PARCH CCC ROBER

I then added the SSOXS3 departure.. all cool...

On the receiving end

I added the ROBER STAR... all seemed good...

I then chose the arrival RNAV 22L..

on the Map.. checking the legs, it looked all.. good.. I figured it went to JFK and then did the arrival procedure.. but it seemed like it got to JFK and then wanted to skip everything else!

When I added the 'arrival' should I have deleted JFK from the route since the arrival ending with 22L was JFK? Or did I do something else totally wrong?

I was trying to do the whole flight without ATC, and it all seemed to be going well until I got to the end. At that point I just contacted the New York Tower and did an ILS Landing with the Tower's directions...

Boy I have a lot to learn before I can attempt VATSIM.. but this sim is totallly addicting, I don't know why I didn't get the 'hook' earlier.. lol.. I think I will have to blame that on you guys!!!  8)

[Yskonyn]

Hi Tuna,

Your problem is common. It's not specific to PMDG, but actually an issue in the real a/c too.
Airways connect to SIDS and STARs and STARs connect to approaches, but sometimes the STAR does not connect very well to the approach.
This is due to the way FMC interpret route programming which does not always cater 100% to regulations made on paper in an office.

There are various errors you can get;

A route discontinuity; often the result of the STAR having duplicate waypoints in relation to the approach and the FMC does not know where to connect or copy the points.

Another possibility is the procedure calls for the intercept of a given radial or arc, but the calculations in the FMC for the given flight make an intercept difficult (oftentimes due to entered speed in the FMC). It will result in a route discontinuity.

When you enter a route into th FMC and want to add an approach, you can also select a Transition; which is a procedure connecting the STAR to the Final approach fix or point.
Not all fields have this, but it might give some weird situations sometimes.

All very technical, I am sorry, but the best thing you can do is set the Navigation Display (ND) in the Plan mode. You can then step through all the points in LEGS mode on the CDU to ' walk through the routing' to see where things go wrong.

One last tip; a missed approach route often goes back to a fix or beacon also used in the approach procedure. Be sure to never copy points from the missed approach procedure part in the routing in the CDU to connect the route and clean up. Use Plan mode as described above to check your route.
This is always a good practise.

[Tuna]

Looking at it.. I think it would've gone well if the JFK leg was missing.. At first I thought it was trying to fly over the airport first before going and setting up for the approach, but instead.. all the points from the 'approach' disappeared once it hit JFK.. I think there was a TRANS offered, I forgot if I selected it or not.. confusing, because sometimes points are listed on the charts I found so I feel I'm 'guessing' a lot.

But you are right, the LEGS step does seem like a good way for checking the course.. again.. I thought it was doing an overflight of JFK first and then going into the approach. But I think JFK was there because when I first created the Route.. I didn't add an Arrival setup yet.

Thanks for the info / tips.. lol.. Someday I"ll get this!

Do most of the time in Real Life and VATSIM.. do you wait till you get your assigned Runway from the Airport, before you enter yours STARS and Approach?

[jomni]

Tuna do you actually have the charts for the approach?  The drawings will explain how the approach is made.  I don't fly in the US so I have to do some research on KJFK first.

[Toonces]

Tuna,
Usually you will check the forecast weather for your destination and plan on shooting that approach.

But the way I fly in FSX, I just wait until I get vectored to a runway and deal with it then.  FSX's ATC doesn't use SID/STAR so it's not an issue for me.

[jomni]

Ok here's the deal. 

STAR ROBER ONE indeed directs to your KFJK airport.  The chart specifically indicate expect radar vetcors for final course so this is not a procedure that can be done without ATC instructions.
ROBER ONE = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JFK/STAR/ROBER+ONE/pdf

Edit:  You can still fly with without ATC instructions but perform a DME ARC (Yskonyn's suggestion).  To do this, tune in and overfly KENNDY JFK VOR (115.9).  Check your DME until you are 12 nm away from JFK then turn left (turning right would lead to the city and that would be bad for the residents).  You try to manually fly in a circle maintaining the 12nm from JKF until you intercept the ILS (remember to switch frequencies).  Of course you have to be at the proper altitude for intercepting the ILS 12nm out.  Remember that this is not standard procedure.

You notice that rwy 22L approach types start from DEEP PARK VOR (DPK) 117.7.  So a more suitable STAR would be something that ends with DPK.
VOR/DME 22L = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JFK/IAP/VOR_DME+RWY+22L/pdf
RNAV GPS 22L = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KJFK/IAP/RNAV+(GPS)+Y+RWY+22L
RNAV RNP 22L = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JFK/IAP/RNAV+(RNP)+Z+RWY+22L/pdf
ILS 22L = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JFK/IAP/ILS+OR+LOC+RWY+22L/pdf

A more suitable arrival for continuous legs to approach would be PRAWLING TWO.  But you have to sort out how PRAWLING TWO connects with your previous waypoints?
PRAWLING TWO = http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/JFK/STAR/PAWLING+TWO/pdf

The whole set of charts here:
http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KJFK/IAP/RNAV+(GPS)+Y+RWY+22L

@Toonces, I think Tuna is trying to fly without ATC vectoring as it is an occasional situation in VATSIM.

[Toonces]

I'll have to defer to Yassy on how they do it in the real world. 

Usually, the way I remember doing it is we'd check the forecast before takeoff and plan for an approach that used a runway that was favorable for the weather.  I flew into military fields so it was usually not as hard as somewhere like Atlanta probably is. 

When we checked in with approach we'd request a preferred approach and runway, "Dragon 42, requesting the ILS 31 approach, full stop."  Something like that. 

If you're flying FSX with no ATC, then check the winds and pick an STAR that links with an approach to a runway that's facing into the wind and minimizes your crosswind if possible.

[Tuna]

Hi Jomni,

That's the same site that I've been downloading my charts from.. I think my problem was that I did the route.. then I added the arrival after, and that is what screwed it up...

I tried to do KPIT to KBOS tonight, but @#$!ing FSX crashed on me shortly after take off.. looking in my config file.. I had to display sections..both with the wrong screen resolution.. I deleted one section and changed my resolution to the correct one.. The Game looked a heck of a lot better!.. I didn't try the flight again, cause it was a lil late, but I flew around a bit, enjoying the crisper graphics.. I think if I have Rex in my other Monitor when I start the game it screws up FSX cause it changed it to the other monitor's resolution. Anyways.. I hope it stays like this and I hope I stop crashing.. really too much work to get everything set up.. take off.. fly for a while and then crash.. grrrrr.. hoping this will fix it for good.. and yes, I've already done that dll that fixes the 'menu' crash.


Toonces.. is there somewhere that I can look up the weather, or does that show when you look up the airport on the map?

Appreciate all your help guys... I am hopelessly addicted to this game now... lol.. I hope my intermittent crashes goes away so that I don't get turned off.. My poor Rome II campaign is sitting on the Steam shelf gathering dust!.. lol

[jomni]

That's the same site that I've been downloading my charts from.. I think my problem was that I did the route.. then I added the arrival after, and that is what screwed it up...

Well that's how most people do it.  Airports have their own quirks though.  Normally, your flight plan is alright as long as ATC is there to vector you from ROBER.
In real life, they are always there. Nothing really wrong with what you did initially.  ;D