IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Discussion

[JasonPratt]

Spent several hours this afternoon figuring out, for my He-111...

1.) Why my stick/throttle wasn't working. The problem turned out to be that even though the system detected my rig and assigned inputs to it, in FACT I had to go back and manually reassign everything. Which makes some sense, because the game couldn't possibly know the control limits without input testing -- but good design realizes this and prompts you for the input tests upon detecting a rig that it doesn't have a profile for! 

2.) Why my engines never warmed up. I have to throttle them up to 50% for a few minutes. I sat there for 30 minutes waiting for any twitch at all. Nope!

3.) Notably, the water and oil temps are not what the instructions generally say for operation (70 and 80 respectively). 38ish degrees C is fine for each. But then I was ignoring the instructions since I wasn't actually planning to try to take off yet.

4.) I wanted to manage my mixtures and radiators and superchargers myself and blade pitch myself. I'm still not sure the He-111 actually has blade pitch -- it has RPM but not "pitch" per se, distinct from the throttles for each engine. But the RPM acts like the pitch. But when I pitch back and forth (took a while to find good throttle-key bindings for this because my secondary rocker suxxxxxxs and should never be used for anything important), the graphics don't show the blades pitching. But I'm sure I saw that on demo tutorial films!

5.) While I was able to get my oil radiators to operate correctly, I could never get the system to open or close (incrementally or absolutely) the water radiators. Or the mixture for that matter. I've heard that manually mixturing has been removed from the He-111 (if not from the game) during a patch, but the game seemed to allow me to turn manual mixing on at one point. But then I could never get it to pay attention to my mixing or water commands after that. Eventually I went back to having the computer manage it automatically. I can't even fly yet, so maybe that's just as well.

6.) I probably need a new stick and throttle. At least a new throttle (and thus a new stick since they can't be switched out). My throttle is jerky and sticks a lot, especially past 50% open -- the point where I need fine control! I could use the keyboard of course, especially for flying a bomber, but the input lags a bit.

7.) Nothing, and I mean nothing that I've watched or read explained that I should use my toe brakes for fine inertial steering control. This took me a while to learn. Using inertial toe-brakes to control torque and air-torsion drift during takeoff is seems a little weird, too... (Edited to add: in fairness, the quicknotes do talk about toe brakes, I now notice. But not during takeoff! -- there's no way to get enough airflow over the rudder at lower speeds to offset the torque or even the torsions created by the airflow from the props including over the rudder!)

8.) While setting my elevators on the stick, I thought the game was telling me they had somehow been read backward, so I inverted the inputs. While trying to take off for my very first time, merely to see if I could (I ran out of runway) I nosed down pulling back the stick, and faceplanted.  #:-) It took me a minute to understand that I had wrongly inverted the inputs after all.

9.) Note to self: 100% flaps is probably not the ideal setting for taking off in a bomber.

[Tuna]

Never had to warm my engines up. .do MP servers have eliminated wait times for that? Have to turn the RPMs up to get rolling.

Also, the 111 is a pig climbing.. so need the speed. 20% flaps to take off. .then as soon as you have enough speed raise em.

[JasonPratt]

Yep, taken off a few more times than I've landed now, but not too many more times. ;)

It has definitely helped that I'm letting my non-existent co-pilot manage the radiators, and linked my rpms with my throttles more organically. Then I recalled that helicopters generally do link their throttle with the "collective", even though technically you can adjust one without adjusting the other; and ditto for modern plane engines anyway.

That said -- I'm still doing something wrong at takeoff. I don't even have real bombs on board (the quick mission makes you take something so I've got a pack of internal paintbombs), and I'm unable to get off the ground before reaching the end of the runway -- when I ought to be rotating when I pass the tower at the halfway point!

At first I thought the problem was that during initial thrust I was tapping my toe-brakes to overcome the various forces pulling me rightward, and so bleeding off too much speed. But doing nothing until the rudder can operate at higher speed made no difference.

Then I thought maybe I need to lower my flaps past 20 degrees to 30 or more, adding drag but also lift, reducing my takeoff threshold. But that didn't work either.

Now I'm wondering if I should go with no flaps until I get up to 180 or 170 and them drop them quickly... but other people seem to use 20 degrees for takeoff.

Another theory is that I'm still lacking power because I'm not waiting until temps are 80/70 (or whatever the normal operational minimum are) before takeoff. I'll test that tomorrow when I try again with an already-started engine; but I've also tried taking off after already flying around, and there seems to be no difference that way either!

One more theory is that I'm simply at an airfield that isn't designed to takeoff He-111s. But the quick mission setup doesn't put -111s at every field, so presumably I'd be somewhere with a long enough main strip.

If worse comes to worst I can always just start further back at a feeder strip entering into the main strip, but that seems like cheating...  :-\

[Father Ted]

I've never tried the He111, but one thing occurred to me - does it have a tailwheel lock?

[Tuna]

Don't know if it helps, but I've always done gas at half capacity on all flights. Don't think you need more than that to fly to bomb site and return.

On some of the German planes, you pull back on the stick to the lock the tailwheel (I forget if that was the case with the 111, it is definitely the case with the FW 190.

If it is the case, with the 111, maybe that will help you get up to speed, that the toe brakes is bleeding off.

JU 88, you use light tapping of the toe brakes to offset torque, but I forget on the 111. But you do need your speed to get airborne, one of the 'harder' planes in that regards.

Definitely RPM 100% during take off, I immediately after safely airborne, then lower throttle and rpm to nominal settings for climb (so you don't burn the engines).

Need to be sensitive with it taking off, because it does not want to just fly, unlike many other birds.

With Radiators, I usually just open them when I start the engines. .I haven't run into any problems with over cooling like on a dive in RoF.

Looking at my notes from before, you can Lock the tailwheel.

Take off Rads Fully open.. Max RPM 1.35 ATA (1 minute max)
Climb 1.15 ATA 2300 RPM 30 min rating

Limits
1.35 ATA 2400 rpm 1 min max
1.15 ATA 2300 rpm 30 min max
1.10 ATA 2200 rpm Max continous


Take off
Lock Tail Wheel
100kph ease tail off ground
150 rotate gently
Airborne.. pull u Wheels and Flaps quiclky
Adjust Manifold and RPM

[JasonPratt]

Locking the tail wheel must have changed, because that's impossible now. I checked that yesterday, despite having read already that the He-111 didn't have a tailwheel lock. (Or not the 1941 version perhaps.) Trying the tail-lock key does nothing.

Another thing that occurred to me -- though once again it seems like something that people would have mentioned in their notes for takeoff, or in videos -- is that while in flight the -111 naturally wants to nose-over, so a significant amount of tail-down elevator trim seems necessary. (Graphically that's the flywheel attached to the seat's right side.) I've never seen ANYONE yet mention this, but they have to be doing it -- so maybe this is the missing factor? They just dial it in automatically during pre-start or taxi, and don't think about it anymore?

The fuel is a good idea; I'll test that.  :bd:

Generally the computer likes to keep the radiators fully closed until the temps really are at 80 or 90. (There's a graphic for this on the engines outside in front of the landing gear, btw, although it can't be seen from the pilot's seat.) On takeoff having the radiators fully closed reduces drag, but I've tried that, too, and it didn't seem to help (or not nearly enough for me to notice -- maybe I take off earlier in the grass instead of just before I hit the revetments!!)

I feel like I must be doing something super-wrong, but dang if I can figure out what... 

There's a key that turns on total autopilot, which can be used for takeoffs -- I tried that on my very first flight (testing a campaign mission), but I wasn't paying attention, and the runway was different anyway. If I can find that toggle again, I'll see what the computer does on this field.

[Tuna]

So pulling back the stick, no longer locks the tailwheel? I'm not sure if it gave a 'message' or not.

[JasonPratt]

So pulling back the stick, no longer locks the tailwheel? I'm not sure if it gave a 'message' or not.

I'll try, but all instructions I've read or seen say to use the rudder and/or toe brakes to keep the craft straight on takeoff. Nothing about locking the tailwheel, whether with a stick-back or by keyboard (LShift-slash, as I recall).

Again, maybe that's different for the 1943 -111 at Stalingrad and later. I'm flying the 1941 variant at Moscow.

(...it just occurred to me that the 1941 variant may not have the horsepower to take off as quickly, and so the problem may just be that and a runway not really designed for it despite the quickbattle providing it as an option! -- which is also where the Moscow campaign sent me, btw. Then again, the autopilot had no problem taking a flight of them off on a shorter runway, the squadron being stacked up, and carrying a real bombload. But then maybe there was less fuel...)

[Gusington]

This all sounds extremely complex. Where to begin?

[JasonPratt]

I wonder if one of the historical 'narrative' campaigns would be like a tutorial?

[MengJiao]

This all sounds extremely complex. Where to begin?

I just set up quick missions and start in the air.

[Gusington]

So much to learn both in the narrative of the game, the campaign system and how to actually fly...Meng that sounds like the only real option. To be prepared to crash and burn 100 times before even thinking about getting a kill or some combat experience.

[MengJiao]

So much to learn both in the narrative of the game, the campaign system and how to actually fly...Meng that sounds like the only real option. To be prepared to crash and burn 100 times before even thinking about getting a kill or some combat experience.

  Plus you get a feeling for what planes you like to fly....how controls work, effects of weather, what 3000 meters looks like etc.

[Gusington]

 O0 I see no other option really. Same for WoFF too, btw.

[Father Ted]

To be prepared to crash and burn 100 times before even thinking about getting a kill or some combat experience.

The thing is, these things are designed as simulators first and games second, yet it is very rare for someone to attempt to learn to "fly" competently (as one would have to do IRL) before starting to try to shoot things down.