so I am thinking of restarting my hunting expeditions. And I am thinking cross bow. They are legal in the province now and I am looking forward to trying something new. Advice from anyone who has some to share would be appreciated.
I am not a fan of hunting...and hunting with a cross bow...you are a good shooter with that weapon, aren't you? You won't experiment with it...just trying to kill something...to get some experience with the cross bow...
Yes,that could put quite a damper on any future hunting expeditions if you only wound the animal and spend the rest of the day chasing it down trying to put it out of its misery.
That is,unless you enjoy that sort of thing....
Hunting in the USA is a bit different I know as some like hunting in full military camo guns ablaze with MGs...of course here's the European pussy speaking when it comes to hunting real man style and all... ::)
Hunting done right is more respectful of the animal and its specie in question being harvested, than some poor domestic critter living in confined conditions on some damnable factory farm being hormone up and never really living.
Hunting supports habitat... dollars to supermarket chains supports what exactly?
* see Bison, I do have a redneck core.
QuoteHunting done right is more respectful of the animal
I doubt a crossbow or a MG or something like that is 'hunting done right'...just sayin'
I've only hunted once with my uncle when I was 13 years old.
I shot a deer and only wounded it,my uncle made me track it and finish the job and explained to me the whole time I was doing it how important it was not to treat hunting as a sport and how cruel it would be to leave the animal wounded and suffering.
After we finally caught up to the deer a few hours later,I was actually very sad about what I had done to this animal,and haven't hunted again since.
I'm sure I could hunt again in an emergency,but I never could do it as a sport.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 24, 2013, 02:13:59 PM
QuoteHunting done right is more respectful of the animal
I doubt a crossbow or a MG or something like that is 'hunting done right'...just sayin'
So what is hunting done right in your books?
Crossbows, Bows, automatic weapons, dynamite etc. are not part of it...
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 24, 2013, 03:10:09 PM
Crossbows, Bows, automatic weapons, dynamite etc. are not part of it...
blackpowder musket?
You know what? Go hunting...use whatever you want to kill, to practice, to experiment, to have fun, whatever...if you start such a thread here you can not really expect that all replies are 'Wow! You are da man, with a crossbow!! Awesome, you da killa, you cool' ... just go and shoot whatever seems to make a move (be careful some things that move are just trees in the wind)...you'll go hunting anyway so why do you post about it here? Getting 'advice'? What kind of helpful advice? 'You know, you take that crossbow and try to aim and try to kill...it's easy. If you are not good with crossbow, you try again...just shoot until animal dead...or at least not moving anymore...easy'
::)
HaHa.
I'd like to see some of the He Men around here go out and hunt a grizly bear with just a knife or bare hands and strangle it.
That would certainly make for an interesting hunting story.
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 02:05:26 PM
Hunting supports habitat... dollars to supermarket chains supports what exactly?
The people who work there and the people who shop there.
Quote from: LongBlade on October 24, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 02:05:26 PM
Hunting supports habitat... dollars to supermarket chains supports what exactly?
The people who work there and the people who shop there.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inboundmarketingagents.com%2FPortals%2F160334%2Fimages%2Ffunny-walmart-meme-freaks.jpg&hash=680a0eb8f5fabf3a475b12b794c0f8948f529c7a)
I've done bow hunting but not crossbow hunting. Only advice I have is do NOT skimp on the bolt heads. Get as powerful a crossbow as you can reliably cock and then gets some razor-sharp broad-heads. I'd go with carbon fibre blades with a heavy steel tip. You're going to want something with enough mass at the point to burrow deep in and strong enough blades that will do some damage to the organs and not warp or deflect off bone or dense tissue. Trust me, chasing through the woods after a deer that didn't drop cleanly sucks all kinds of balls.
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 06:16:27 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 24, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 02:05:26 PM
Hunting supports habitat... dollars to supermarket chains supports what exactly?
The people who work there and the people who shop there.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inboundmarketingagents.com%2FPortals%2F160334%2Fimages%2Ffunny-walmart-meme-freaks.jpg&hash=680a0eb8f5fabf3a475b12b794c0f8948f529c7a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=8603e6684adb44bdc2ee527335efa8e297a88686)
I'm not following you. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Joking?
He's doing what we all do here: Thread-derailing!
Quote from: Martok on October 24, 2013, 08:09:19 PM
He's doing what we all do here: Thread-derailing!
Well, why didn't you say so?
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Quote from: LongBlade on October 24, 2013, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 06:16:27 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 24, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 24, 2013, 02:05:26 PM
Hunting supports habitat... dollars to supermarket chains supports what exactly?
The people who work there and the people who shop there.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inboundmarketingagents.com%2FPortals%2F160334%2Fimages%2Ffunny-walmart-meme-freaks.jpg&hash=680a0eb8f5fabf3a475b12b794c0f8948f529c7a)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=8603e6684adb44bdc2ee527335efa8e297a88686)
I'm not following you. Are you agreeing? Disagreeing? Joking?
well you got me good with the response to the sorta rhetorical question I asked... you came at it from the employment/taxes angle... a good 3 pt. shot. So as martok indicated ... I segued with a meme that covered both supermarket shopping and hunting
ala top of the food chain.
:-[
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 24, 2013, 01:44:31 PM
if you only wound the animal and spend the rest of the day chasing it down trying to put it out of its misery.
That is,unless you enjoy that sort of thing....
he calls it Friday night at the bar. ;)
http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355 (http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355)
think I found my CB
heres an idea...
go hunting with your agw debate and kill the animals with bordom. :)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 08:08:03 PM
heres an idea...
go hunting with your agw debate and kill the animals with bordom. :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fjdfc81D.jpg&hash=5f30b259806a65c8e94db10f63c01d217c47780c)
Anyone who truly thinks Americans are roaming around the forest hunting with "MGs" has his head up his ass.
It's not manly unless you use something like a bowie knife.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 27, 2013, 08:28:36 PM
Anyone who truly thinks Americans are roaming around the forest hunting with "MGs" has his head up his ass.
I was wondering when someone would 'correct' the oft held and fallacious view that euros have of American hunters.
Glad you made it....
By the way... hows the sweetest little baby girl in the world?
Get a nice camera, take the animal's picture, then pick up chinese food on the way home.
venison doest taste very good on photo paper.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 27, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
Get a nice camera, take the animal's picture, then pick up chinese food on the way home.
geeze all I want to do is shoot some frikken Ruffed Grouse and some Sharp tailed grouse without the hassle of getting a damn gun permit.
just buy whatever it is that Daryl's using.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
just buy whatever it is that Daryl's using.
that would go over well in the local hunting shop.... what little outdoorsman cred I have left would be shot to hell
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 27, 2013, 08:28:36 PM
Anyone who truly thinks Americans are roaming around the forest hunting with "MGs" has his head up his ass.
I was wondering when someone would 'correct' the oft held and fallacious view that euros have of American hunters.
Glad you made it....
By the way... hows the sweetest little baby girl in the world?
She's beautiful...just simply beautiful. Thanks for asking!
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
just buy whatever it is that Daryl's using.
that would go over well in the local hunting shop.... what little outdoorsman cred I have left would be shot to hell
you hunt fossils, what cred?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
just buy whatever it is that Daryl's using.
that would go over well in the local hunting shop.... what little outdoorsman cred I have left would be shot to hell
you hunt fossils, what cred?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhowmanyarethere.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Findiana-jones.jpg&hash=5f88bc1c91715a82de63c99685433ff36423d293)
arent you feeling delusional. :P
then go buy a whip (which Im surprised you dont already have).
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 27, 2013, 08:33:23 PM
Get a nice camera, take the animal's picture, then pick up chinese food on the way home.
geeze all I want to do is shoot some frikken Ruffed Grouse and some Sharp tailed grouse without the hassle of getting a damn gun permit.
Crossbow for grouse? When I was pre-teen grouse were taken down by a pellet rifle. You have some jinormous birds mutating up north?
Actually never mind, I am thinking of quail not grouse. The species you mention look the size of pheasant to me.
ah... so the truth is unearthed.
Windy wants to shoot peasants.
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:04:35 PM
http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355 (http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355)
think I found my CB
That's like ten times the cost of a .22 and five times the cost of a shotgun. How big a hassle are the gun permits?
Quote from: LongBlade on October 28, 2013, 08:50:56 AM
Quote from: Windigo on October 27, 2013, 08:04:35 PM
http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355 (http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/catalog/crossbow/matrix_355)
think I found my CB
That's like ten times the cost of a .22 and five times the cost of a shotgun. How big a hassle are the gun permits?
Gotta take a weekend course. Nothing really but the pain in the ass factor.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 09:28:28 PMthen go buy a whip (which Im surprised you dont already have).
He has one. The problem is it's pink and has a feathery tip and came in a box with some fuzzy handcuffs and a return address in Houston.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 28, 2013, 09:22:17 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2013, 09:28:28 PMthen go buy a whip (which Im surprised you dont already have).
He has one. The problem is it's pink and has a feathery tip and came in a box with some fuzzy handcuffs and a return address in Houston.
rugged amateur paleontologists don't wear/use pink...
hence the lack of outdoorsmen/hunting cred.
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 09:27:12 AMrugged amateur paleontologists don't wear/use pink...
if I ever meet one or interact with one online, I'll be sure to remember that
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 28, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 09:27:12 AMrugged amateur paleontologists don't wear/use pink...
if I ever meet one or interact with one online, I'll be sure to remember that
he'll likely be hanging out with the tankers
Wholesale Sports has a sale going on until Nov 10th 20 - 25% off bows and bow accessories. Their mail order service sucks but their in-store staff has been great in my dealings with them. I think they've got some shops up near that frozen hellhole you call home.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 24, 2013, 03:10:09 PM
Crossbows, Bows, automatic weapons, dynamite etc. are not part of it...
what would be more natural than hunting with a bow ! ;D
especially if the bow and arrows in question may have been made by hand yourself ...well, after attending some lectures, which get teached at natural history museums 'n such.... and lots of target practice.
yeah, its against the hunting-law here, and allways will be -not because of the animals not dead on the spot!
No, cause of the rich dentists, layers, landlords and company-owner hunting-area-renter crowd want to keep it exclusive & traditional in their 'upper-class' circles... just like in the past, hunting is for the nobles.
Not all traditional hunter's in Germany are straight-shooters. Some also just wound the deer or wild-pig and it has to be tracked down for hours in the undergrow with trained dogs.
Also those especially feed the game in winter, there is already to much game running in the woods (the wood owner complain already) just so the game survives to have a nice target rich hunting environment next season.
Hypocrisy!
Quote from: MikeGER on October 28, 2013, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 24, 2013, 03:10:09 PM
Crossbows, Bows, automatic weapons, dynamite etc. are not part of it...
what would be more natural than hunting with a bow ! ;D
especially if the bow and arrows in question may have been made by hand yourself ...well, after attending some lectures, which get teached at natural history museums 'n such.... and lots of target practice.
yeah, its against the hunting-law here, and allways will be -not because of the animals not dead on the spot!
No, cause of the rich dentists, layers, landlords and company-owner hunting-area-renter crowd want to keep it exclusive & traditional in their 'upper-class' circles... just like in the past, hunting is for the nobles.
Not all traditional hunter's in Germany are straight-shooters. Some also just wound the deer or wild-pig and it has to be tracked down for hours in the undergrow with trained dogs.
Also those especially feed the game in winter, there is already to much game running in the woods (the wood owner complain already) just so the game survives to have a nice target rich hunting environment next season.
around here, the hunting season is relatively short, but you reminded me that wild boar is considered a pest around here (year round hunting, no licence required). I wonder what wild boar bacon tastes like?
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 12:14:14 PM
I wonder what wild boar bacon tastes like?
lets us know when you got it prepared :) .... and maybe think about taking a GoPro cam on your boar hunts 8)
Quote from: MikeGER on October 28, 2013, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 12:14:14 PM
I wonder what wild boar bacon tastes like?
lets us know when you got it prepared :) .... and maybe think about taking a GoPro cam on your boar hunts 8)
Hmmm, I can see a plan unfolding here. I wonder if those gopros could mount on the crossbow ... perhaps over the scope?
getting <60 yards from a wild boar could be a worthy challenge.....
ya.... dont go boar hunting with a crossbow. we kind of like you not in the hospital in ICU.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2013, 12:53:04 PM
ya.... dont go boar hunting with a crossbow. we kind of like you not in the hospital in ICU.
Unless you also carry a spear or sword.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 28, 2013, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2013, 12:53:04 PM
ya.... dont go boar hunting with a crossbow. we kind of like you not in the hospital in ICU.
Unless you also carry a spear or sword.
yes a 'Saufeder'
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.optik-jagdshop.de%2Fimages%2FSaufeder-Sauenspie---zerlegbar-mit-Scheide--P18-.jpg&hash=73434bb0f6dfb1aeb230e892e363df1a5bdc2243)
I went quail hunting today.
My buddy gave me a package of wild pig sausage.
Where I live, a lot of land owners will let you go shoot pigs for free. Outside of deer season, you can hunt wild pigs over bait.
Let me know how it tastes Attaboy. I definitly am considering a wild pig hunt.
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
Let me know how it tastes Attaboy. I definitly am considering a wild pig hunt.
^^^ to easy. 8)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2013, 05:00:51 PM
Quote from: Windigo on October 28, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
Let me know how it tastes Attaboy. I definitly am considering a wild pig hunt.
^^^ to easy. 8)
that's admirable restraint... here have a recognition award
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brendanmcgetrick.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fchristinamilian-s.jpg&hash=f89993af73f2c4181dd4e7969165aca1a0c0acd0)
I think someone has a serious misconception of hunting in America if they honestly think guys go out there with MG (machine guns) blazing. Seriously. Stop watching Hollywood movies. They are complete trash in every area regarding to reality.
I haven't hunted in a long, long time. I took up fishing and never really got back to gunz ablazing mowing down innocent upland game with my many machine guns. I prefer to use a 50 cal when I do my gunz ablazing attacks on nature, but to each their own. However, I've been looking at getting back into bird hunting primarily duck.
my I recommend using an Ostwind for bird hunting.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2013, 06:15:45 PM
my I recommend using an Ostwind for bird hunting.
proximity fused ammo of course
A FlakVierling (or Wirblewind if you don't have something to shlep the FV with) would be much more efficient against flocks of birds- better ROF.
Quote from: MikeGER on October 28, 2013, 04:50:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 28, 2013, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2013, 12:53:04 PM
ya.... dont go boar hunting with a crossbow. we kind of like you not in the hospital in ICU.
Unless you also carry a spear or sword.
yes a 'Saufeder'
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.optik-jagdshop.de%2Fimages%2FSaufeder-Sauenspie---zerlegbar-mit-Scheide--P18-.jpg&hash=73434bb0f6dfb1aeb230e892e363df1a5bdc2243)
OK, now that's cool!
Found one a bit cheaper, but the shaft doesn't break down.
http://www.katerno.com/detail.php?s=243791
Going to look for more.
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 28, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
A FlakVierling (or Wirblewind if you don't have something to shlep the FV with) would be much more efficient against flocks of birds- better ROF.
An 88 flak cannon! Take that avian flu!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc08.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Fi%2F2010%2F154%2F1%2F9%2Fflak_88__by_Spitfire_MK1.jpg&hash=cebffa10cfae2084d8207a792c94df4a5437096f)
^Smaug's days are numbered...
QuoteI took up fishing and never really got back to gunz ablazing mowing down innocent upland game with my many machine guns. I prefer to use a 50 cal when I do my gunz ablazing attacks on nature, but to each their own.
Fishing with grenades now! :D
Quote from: Dolan50 on October 29, 2013, 06:26:07 AM
QuoteI took up fishing and never really got back to gunz ablazing mowing down innocent upland game with my many machine guns. I prefer to use a 50 cal when I do my gunz ablazing attacks on nature, but to each their own.
Fishing with grenades now! :D
Mere grenades are ineffective. I prefer to use a MK19 for burst HE firing capabilities.
Quote from: Bison on October 28, 2013, 06:08:52 PM
I think someone has a serious misconception of hunting in America if they honestly think guys go out there with MG (machine guns) blazing. Seriously. Stop watching Hollywood movies. They are complete trash in every area regarding to reality
Yeah, I love these Hollywood movies! This here was a great one:
"Hunting hogs with night vision, a machine gun, and a suppressor"
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alloutdoor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fhog-390x292.jpg&hash=52fe0c4188fb53e3aae1770ffe5aada54e179bd1)
When using the sledgehammer approach I have a designator on my firearm (typically a machine gun) and drive until I see a pack which will be greeted first by an invisible laser sighted in to my point of impact, and then by a hose of lead courtesy of a legally registered M10 submachine gun with a Lage slowfire upper. (In Texas you can hunt hogs with machine guns) (http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/18/hunting-hogs-night-vision-machine-gun-suppressor/ (http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/18/hunting-hogs-night-vision-machine-gun-suppressor/))
Or this one:
"Helicopter Hog Hunting with Machine Guns"
I especially love the soundtrack!
I'm glad though that these are only Hollywood movies, imagine folks would do that in real life...
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 07:11:05 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 28, 2013, 06:08:52 PM
I think someone has a serious misconception of hunting in America if they honestly think guys go out there with MG (machine guns) blazing. Seriously. Stop watching Hollywood movies. They are complete trash in every area regarding to reality
Yeah, I love these Hollywood movies! This here was a great one:
"Hunting hogs with night vision, a machine gun, and a suppressor"
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alloutdoor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fhog-390x292.jpg&hash=52fe0c4188fb53e3aae1770ffe5aada54e179bd1)
When using the sledgehammer approach I have a designator on my firearm (typically a machine gun) and drive until I see a pack which will be greeted first by an invisible laser sighted in to my point of impact, and then by a hose of lead courtesy of a legally registered M10 submachine gun with a Lage slowfire upper. (In Texas you can hunt hogs with machine guns) (http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/18/hunting-hogs-night-vision-machine-gun-suppressor/ (http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/06/18/hunting-hogs-night-vision-machine-gun-suppressor/))
Or this one:
"Helicopter Hog Hunting with Machine Guns"
I especially love the soundtrack!
I'm glad though that these are only Hollywood movies, imagine folks would do that in real life...
Feral hogs aren't considered game. They're designated by most state agencies as a danger/nuisance and hunters are encouraged to kill them on sight. So, yeah, you do get helicopter MG hunts. But that's not considered hunting. Also, you are still required to legally be able to own/use a firearm.
Real hunting is fairly tightly regulated in the US. There are specific, limited "seasons" or times of year when it is legal to hunt a specific type of game. You typically must purchase a hunting license. In most cases any person born after 1980 must attend and pass a hunter education course (I was born before 80 but our school system made hunting safety a mandatory requirement - I still have my certificate somewhere around here).
In many instances you not only need a license but also a special stamp to hunt a specific game such as waterfowl or, in the case of fishing, trout. These fees aren't huge but can vary. In most cases the fees paid by hunters make a sizable contribution toward that state's conservation department, which manages and enforces the laws around wildlife.
Here's a nice summary from Texas: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/
....its aways season for these pigs ;D
Ok, then I stand corrected. ...there's no MG hunting in the USA because if you hunt down and kill animals with MGs you just don't call it a hunt. That's of course an elegant way to make sure that such things don't happen in the US. Ok you convinced me. I repeat, in the USA there are no folks who hunt and while doing so wear military camo, use laser pointers and night googles or directing their own movie in the Apocalypse Now Ride of the Valkyries style. Sitting in a helicopter, shooting animals, who run in all directions at full speed and panic, with a MG often only wounding these animals while smiling into a cam, wearing military style outfits and listening to AC/DC is something different than a hunt. Got it.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 07:55:16 AM
Ok, then I stand corrected. ...there's no MG hunting in the USA because if you hunt down and kill animals with MGs you just don't call it a hunt. That's of course an elegant way to make sure that such things don't happen in the US. Ok you convinced me. I repeat, in the USA there are no folks who hunt and while doing so wear military camo, use laser pointers and night googles or directing their own movie in the Apocalypse Now Ride of the Valkyries style. Sitting in a helicopter, shooting animals, who run in all directions at full speed and panic, with a MG often only wounding these animals while smiling into a cam, wearing military style outfits and listening to AC/DC is something different than a hunt. Got it.
What I think is going on here is that we have a misunderstanding of context. It's technically "hunting." But it is also highly illegal for any creature other than wild boar.
Also, I'm not sure what your point is. Maybe there is an exception to any rule?
QuoteAlso, I'm not sure what your point is.
My point is that a statement like this...
QuoteI think someone has a serious misconception of hunting in America if they honestly think guys go out there with MG (machine guns) blazing. Seriously. Stop watching Hollywood movies. They are complete trash in every area regarding to reality.
...is in fact wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are calling hunting wild boars a hunt or a party, it doesn't matter whether hunting with automatic weapons is legal or not, the point is that in the USA are folks who enjoy killing with these weapons, who don't give a shit whether the animal is suffering or not, who play soldier while killing animals and who are technically hunting them. My point is that to pretend it is not so is false.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 08:46:29 AM
QuoteAlso, I'm not sure what your point is.
My point is that a statement like this...
QuoteI think someone has a serious misconception of hunting in America if they honestly think guys go out there with MG (machine guns) blazing. Seriously. Stop watching Hollywood movies. They are complete trash in every area regarding to reality.
...is in fact wrong. It doesn't matter whether you are calling hunting wild boars a hunt or a party, it doesn't matter whether hunting with automatic weapons is legal or not, the point is that in the USA are folks who enjoy killing with these weapons, who don't give a shit whether the animal is suffering or not, who play soldier while killing animals and who are technically hunting them. My point is that to pretend it is not so is false.
Ah. Animal suffering.
I'm not sure you understand how game conservation works.
I think its a case where Grim just doesnt get the real problem that wild hogs pose in parts of the US. they breed like rabbits, destroy crops and are very dangerous because of their size and aggression.
QuoteAh. Animal suffering.
Interesting and quite telling remark...
QuoteI'm not sure you understand how game conservation works.
I assume that only the USA has regulations of this kind then and that e.g. Germany is overrun with wild animals because we don't understand how game conservation works - with MGs from a helicopter. Your post here suggests that game conservation is only possible if 'animal suffering' is to be ignored and that because wild boars are doing damage to farmland everything is allowed. I just disagree with this, is all.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
I think its a case where Grim just doesnt get the real problem that wild hogs pose in parts of the US. they breed like rabbits, destroy crops and are very dangerous because of their size and aggression.
I think it goes further.
GDS,
QuoteI think its a case where Grim just doesnt get the real problem that wild hogs pose in parts of the US. they breed like rabbits, destroy crops and are very dangerous because of their size and aggression.
I am aware of this but my initial reply was about the statement no one is hunting with MGs in the USA. We are now slowly slipping into a complete different topic. If someone says 'well, these boars must be killed no matter what way because of the damage they do and some do this indeed with MGs in the US' I can still find this the wrong way or even disgusting but it's at least consistent with reality. Which was what I said in one of my former postings here.
QuoteI think it goes further.
Enlighten me please...
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 09:09:53 AM
QuoteAh. Animal suffering.
Interesting and quite telling remark...
QuoteI'm not sure you understand how game conservation works.
I assume that only the USA has regulations of this kind then and that e.g. Germany is overrun with wild animals because we don't understand how game conservation works - with MGs from a helicopter. Your post here suggests that game conservation is only possible if 'animal suffering' is to be ignored and that because wild boars are doing damage to farmland everything is allowed. I just disagree with this, is all.
I still don't follow your line of thinking. Animal suffering can come from disease, natural predation, natural heat and cold. Left unchecked, animal populations can get out of control and lead to greater suffering - both human and animal.
The fact that you assume those issues aren't factored into the US's conservation efforts suggests you don't fully understand the issue.
Sure, there are a few ignorant people who probably don't care about animal suffering when they hunt. And your point is?
Without trying to put words into people's mouths, I think Grim's issue is that in Germany they're able to execute animal conservation efforts w/o resorting to automatic weapons or helicopters or whatever means he's objecting to. Sounds like the ends are OK (control animal pests) but the means are of concern.
LB's counterpoint is that sometimes we do things differently in the US. One reason is the sheer difference in scale. We've got a helluva lot more ground to cover in the US than in Germany, and a helicopter can make a huge amount of difference. As to automatic weapons? LB's right to point out that under certain circumstances they are legal in the US, and can be used in the removal of nuisance critters. Could you 'hunt' rats with them? Sure - but it's kinds of inefficient. Boar often take multiple shots to bring down anyway, so whether it's one trigger pull or five, it's still five bullets in the critter.
Now, Grim, if this is a back-door way into opening an argument about gun control, please take it to the gun control thread and revisit your points there. No one is telling you that you can't hold those opinions or discuss them as openly as you want. But for the sake of forum organization and flame war control, we try to keep those arguments contained to that thread.
If the concern is animal suffering, then I'm not sure what we can really discuss here. Getting shot hurts. So does getting bit by a komodo dragon and dying of poison over 3 days while they watch. So does watching people go hungry when their crops are destroyed by wild boar. I don't know where you can truly draw the line on how to keep animals from suffering in open environments.
Just remember that people are seldom reasoned out of positions they weren't reasoned into, so if these are truly deeply held beliefs then we may need to just agree to disagree and get back to talking about slinging dice.
Either way, Windi was seeking advice on crossbows for hunting, and (I suspect) not intending to open a discussion about the ethics of automatic fire in chasing around animal pests.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 29, 2013, 09:29:39 AM
Either way, Windi was seeking advice on crossbows for hunting, and (I suspect) not intending to open a discussion about the ethics of automatic fire in chasing around animal pests.
And I found out that for $70 I can get a nice spear!
well for a little more money then that you can get a .458 Hog gun. 8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunsandammo.com%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F01%2F458-SOCOM1.jpg&hash=0b97c55f165f0dd5938e216545adf5205de7df18)
and while it looks very automatic and assaulty its only semi-auto. ;)
QuoteI still don't follow your line of thinking.
As I don't follow yours...
QuoteAnimal suffering can come from disease, natural predation, natural heat and cold. Left unchecked, animal populations can get out of control and lead to greater suffering - both human and animal.
So what? I was not discussing the need of regulating the animal population, I was saying some folks in your country do hunt with MGs. Someone chimed in and said that is just a Hollywood movie myth. So I presented a movie picture and a movie (with a cool soundtrack)...then you jumped in and said something like 'ahahaha...nono...you don't get it...killing boars with MGs is not hunting! It's just...no matter... it's not hunting, only technically it is hunting, but not real hunting...' and then you shifted the topic from (technically) hunting with MGs to animal population regulation. And this is apparently done with MGs, actually based on all the 'cool' youtube videos more often than not done with MGs (and helicopters of course, because it so nicely combines effectiveness and fun).
QuoteThe fact that you assume those issues aren't factored into the US's conservation efforts suggests you don't fully understand the issue.
I assume exactly...nothing. And I don't get what you are talking about...is your sentence above to mean that the fun helicopter rides with MGs is the result of 'those features factored into the US's conservation efforts'? ???
QuoteSure, there are a few ignorant people who probably don't care about animal suffering when they hunt. And your point is?
That we were talking about something different before you changed the topic.
@bayonetbrant,
QuoteI think Grim's issue is that in Germany they're able to execute animal conservation efforts w/o resorting to automatic weapons or helicopters or whatever means he's objecting to. Sounds like the ends are OK (control animal pests) but the means are of concern.
Yes, I thought my English is good enough actually that this isn't so hard to get across.
QuoteWe've got a helluva lot more ground to cover in the US than in Germany, and a helicopter can make a huge amount of difference.
That doesn't mean that 'everything goes' is the right approach when you go hunting imho.
QuoteIf the concern is animal suffering, then I'm not sure what we can really discuss here. Getting shot hurts. So does getting bit by a komodo dragon and dying of poison over 3 days while they watch. So does watching people go hungry when their crops are destroyed by wild boar. I don't know where you can truly draw the line on how to keep animals from suffering in open environments.
Getting shot hurts, true. Getting shot by some dude with a MG who tries to hit and kill while sitting in a helicopter and smiling into the cam does hurt a lot more and is just plain wrong. Hurting and killing animals this way while making such 'cool' videos is wrong. And I suppose - correct me if I am wrong - that these folks in their helicopters can be legally everybody who owns a weapon. You don't have to be someone 'official' like a forester or such. That opens the door for these fun party rides I find disgusting. But let me repeat, I was simply saying that this sort of 'hunting' exists and someone said, no it does not. That was/is the point of debate. That I have an opinion about that doesn't really matter, I was just stating this 'hunting style' is a fact not a Hollywood movie myth.
QuoteNow, Grim, if this is a back-door way into opening an argument about gun control
It is not, neither through the front nor the back door - this has nothing to do with gun-control. Jeez, it's not always about your holy right of owning guns - this thread started about 'crossbow hunting' and I said, I don't think it's a good way to hunt - like hunting with MGs is not a good way to hunt, or using dynamite is not a good way to fish. The follwoing postings slowly drifted off into a complete different topic.
QuoteJust remember that people are seldom reasoned out of positions they weren't reasoned into, so if these are truly deeply held beliefs then we may need to just agree to disagree and get back to talking about slinging dice.
I agree.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 09:45:06 AM
well for a little more money then that you can get a .458 Hog gun. 8)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gunsandammo.com%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F01%2F458-SOCOM1.jpg&hash=0b97c55f165f0dd5938e216545adf5205de7df18)
and while it looks very automatic and assaulty its only semi-auto. ;)
.458 probably requires more man that I can bring to the table. Besides, you need to have a little bacon left over to eat. That's not likely to leave a lot left.
QuoteI was saying some folks in your country do hunt with MGs. Someone chimed in and said that is just a Hollywood movie myth. So I presented a movie picture and a movie
what you may consider hunting is thought of as pest control here. only an idiot would hunt deer or squirrel or whatever with a MG. there is a difference and I think youre taking the hog issue as representing the mainstream attitude of American hunters.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 10:09:23 AM
QuoteI was saying some folks in your country do hunt with MGs. Someone chimed in and said that is just a Hollywood movie myth. So I presented a movie picture and a movie
only an idiot would hunt deer or squirrel or whatever with a MG. there is a difference and I think youre taking the hog issue as representing the mainstream attitude of American hunters.
Exactly.
It's also highly illegal to hunt with an MG - something I've already written at least once (above).
unless you're hunting Canadistanians. ;)
Ive recently baited a trap in Wyoming with fossilized bait. we'll see what happens.
There is also that hunting with a crossbow/compound bow often kills the animal more quickly because the arrow/shaft can cause more damage in many circumstances. Also gives the animal a better chance to escape since you have to get much closer to shoot them. Just my $.02. I've "hunted" with a bow, but never killed anything. I guess that's why it's called "hunting" and not "killing" ;D.
for the record I really dont enjoy the killing part of hunting. its not food Im going to be eating. the vast majority of hunters in the US do eat what the hunt. the fun part for me is slinking around the brush.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 09:56:36 AMQuoteNow, Grim, if this is a back-door way into opening an argument about gun control
It is not, neither through the front nor the back door - this has nothing to do with gun-control.
Please don't think I was accusing you of that. We've just seen a lot of different attempts to steer arguments in those directions. I'm probably over-cautious about it these days.
mea culpa
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 10:41:09 AMthe fun part for me is slinking around the brush.
yes, but the question is - and you're probably the forum expert on this - is "slinking around the brush" more fun or less fun when the prey has a restraining order against you? ;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 10:41:09 AM
for the record I really dont enjoy the killing part of hunting. its not food Im going to be eating. the vast majority of hunters in the US do eat what the hunt. the fun part for me is slinking around the brush.
Then take a camera instead.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
Getting shot hurts, true. Getting shot by some dude with a MG who tries to hit and kill while sitting in a helicopter and smiling into the cam does hurt a lot more and is just plain wrong. Hurting and killing animals this way while making such 'cool' videos is wrong. And I suppose - correct me if I am wrong - that these folks in their helicopters can be legally everybody who owns a weapon. You don't have to be someone 'official' like a forter or such
That opens the door for these fun party rides I find disgusting.
Grim you dont want to walk down that path....
A little bit more tolerance here for
different peoples life styles. ::) ... esp. in another country.
Its a family side so we better dont discuss in detail what stuff a lot of people - including me- find most disgusting, going on in your pansy home ;)
Windy wants to hunt with a cross bow, its legal at his place ...so tollerate it. You dont have to join him!
and he will surly not make any rainbow colored unicorns suffer ;)
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 29, 2013, 10:54:44 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 10:41:09 AM
for the record I really dont enjoy the killing part of hunting. its not food Im going to be eating. the vast majority of hunters in the US do eat what the hunt. the fun part for me is slinking around the brush.
Then take a camera instead.
y'see -
that's how he got the restraining order in the first place!
Quote from: MikeGER on October 29, 2013, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
Getting shot hurts, true. Getting shot by some dude with a MG who tries to hit and kill while sitting in a helicopter and smiling into the cam does hurt a lot more and is just plain wrong. Hurting and killing animals this way while making such 'cool' videos is wrong. And I suppose - correct me if I am wrong - that these folks in their helicopters can be legally everybody who owns a weapon. You don't have to be someone 'official' like a forter or such
That opens the door for these fun party rides I find disgusting.
Grim you dont want to walk down that path....
A little bit more tolerance here for different peoples life styles. ::) ... esp. in another country.
Its a family side so we better dont discuss in detail what stuff a lot of people - including me- find most disgusting, going on in your pansy home ;)
Windy wants to hunt with a cross bow, its legal at his place ...so tollerate it. You dont have to join him!
and he will surly not make any rainbow colored unicorns suffer ;)
There's more going on with hunting than simply killing animals.
State conservation departments attempt to closely monitor the populations of various species.
When there are too many deer (due to a lack of natural predators like wolves) they increase the number of deer tags, or the number of doe tags to reduce the population to healthy levels. If they didn't the deer would overbreed, overeat, and eventually start to starve. That opens the door for diseases, which could endanger the entire deer population. Conversely, if the populations grow too small conservation departments will limit the number of tags issued - or even prohibit hunting altogether. Amazingly (not the lease because it's government management) it generally works pretty well.
So there really is more to this than just "animal suffering." Any discussion of hunting without full knowledge as to how and why is...uninformed (to be generous).
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 29, 2013, 10:23:42 AM
unless you're hunting Canadistanians. ;)
Ive recently baited a trap in Wyoming with fossilized bait. we'll see what happens.
dum-dee-dum-dee-dum-dee-dum ..... "heeeeeeyyyyyyyy whats that????"
QuoteGrim you dont want to walk down that path....
A little bit more tolerance here for different peoples life styles. ::) ... esp. in another country.
I am not allowed to express my opinion in a public thread on something just because the thread starter is living in another country and has another 'life style'? In a forum where I am a member like everybody else? Hello? The Taliban also have a different 'life style' and they live in another country...(no, I'm NOT saying Americans are like the Taliban just in case someone is again reading something into my words - this is just an example why I consider that as nonsense)
QuoteIts a family side so we better dont discuss in detail what stuff a lot of people - including me- find most disgusting, going on in your pansy home ;)
Sorry, I don't understand that sentence...what side of which family?
QuoteWindy wants to hunt with a cross bow, its legal at his place ...so tollerate it. You dont have to join him!
No I don't, nor would I. Many things in many countries are legal there, that doesn't mean I have to agree with anything that happens in such a country. My initial point was that you should be a pretty good and experienced bow/crossbow hunter to not cause more suffering than is neccessary when you go hunting. Read post no. 2 on page 1 of this thread...
QuoteSo there really is more to this than just "animal suffering." Any discussion of hunting without full knowledge as to how and why is...uninformed (to be generous).
Why keep you on to ignore what I say? I didn't talk about the neccessity of animal population control.
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 29, 2013, 11:24:14 AM
QuoteSo there really is more to this than just "animal suffering." Any discussion of hunting without full knowledge as to how and why is...uninformed (to be generous).
Why keep you on to ignore what I say? I didn't talk about the neccessity of animal population control.
Then what's your point? America has some ignorant people? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
QuoteThen what's your point? America has some ignorant people? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
This constant asking 'what's your point?' ...well, if you did not understand what I was 'trying' to say, then I can't explain it to you, I really don't know what else to say. Luckily Bayonetbrant was able to understand what I said. *sigh*
*sigh*
At least we agree on this one LongBlade.
Just let us drop this, it's nothing personal, I have nothing against the USA (I wouldn't be here otherwise), I have nothing against animal population control nor against hunting as such- it seems to be simply a matter of extremely different perspectives that we talk past each other.
Let the dice decide who's right, shall we? ;)
Sounds good. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Fshakehands.gif&hash=69f7233091873490f67903297d546022e94d19bc)
Quote from: Grimnirsson on October 24, 2013, 01:36:06 PM
I am not a fan of hunting...and hunting with a cross bow...you are a good shooter with that weapon, aren't you? You won't experiment with it...just trying to kill something...to get some experience with the cross bow...
I read a much later comment you made where you refer to this very early post of yours. Sorry I didn't answer it sooner.
I used to hunt ... many many years ago; rifle, shotgun, bow & arrow. My preference always was shotgun because my animal of choice was ruffed grouse... tasty eats. I always went to the range to get proficient with whatever weapon I was going to use.
I am a responsible respectful hunter. A large part of the enjoyment of hunting is getting to know your prey, your equipment and having a great excuse to be outdoors.
I firmly believe that hunting is a far more responsible and conscious way to put meat on the table than going down to Walmart and buying chicken parts - mainly because strictly buying from a store dissassociates you from the consequences of your actions and choices viz a vie eating meat. Factory farming animals is disgusting IMO and I actively chose products that minimize or avoid life degrading conditions for them.
Anyway, back to crossbows and hunting. It would be out of character for me to not become a decent shot with the thing prior to hunting anything. Its the right thing to do. I don't even begruge the fact that because target heads are typically lighter than the actual hunting heads on arrows and bolts that I'll eat about 150-200 dollars in busted hunting heads practicing on range.
I can say through my experience that I have not yet met a hunter that target practices on live game.
Quote from: Windigo on October 29, 2013, 11:58:50 AM
I firmly believe that hunting is a far more responsible and conscious way to put meat on the table than going down to Walmart and buying chicken parts - mainly because strictly buying from a store dissassociates you from the consequences of your actions and choices viz a vie eating meat. Factory farming animals is disgusting IMO and I actively chose products that minimize or avoid life degrading conditions for them.
I agree. Factory meat also lacks flavor. I once considered having a free range turkey farm. I know nothing about real farming so it stays a day dream. Happy turkeys make a superior Christmas dinner.
if you really want to use a crossbow and hunt boar then use one of these:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falexisphoenix.org%2Fimagesromania9%2Ffirstballista.jpg&hash=48fdc3b1f874e2479f3445e733abd001706136d6)
and if you just want to piss off some co-workers use this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.vat19.com%2Fballista-kit%2Fdiy-ballista-kit-table.jpg&hash=9a9c6440fb6e2a4dc9f3615135b8eac20287e193)
(I already here LB's wallet opening)
http://www.vat19.com/dvds/diy-wooden-ballista-kit.cfm ;D
Or the handheld version:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homefrontcenter.de%2Fallerlei%2F46_Mili.jpg&hash=e1c021b58a752dcb5aa86f2d004dbc1b3850f4bf)
I have never heard of anyone, ever, in Alabama using a machine gun to hunt anything. Hunting from a helicopter? Impossible in Alabama because the degree of tree coverage over most anything with game would make it impossible.
The only helicopter hunting I have ever heard of in the USA is for nuisance animals and the hunting is done by professionals. Wolves and wild hogs are the only things I have ever heard of hunted from a copter.
There are 2 situations where I know people have used AR-15 variants (semi-auto) for large scale hunting. One is pigs. Wild pigs are an absolute menace. Almost every game warden I have ever met requests that we shoot any pig we see out in the field. The other time large magazine hunting rifles are used is for deer when there are nuisance permits issued because they are destroying crops. Usually when a farmer has tags to kill 30 or so deer they bait the field, use multiple hunters in a field of fire design, and often spot-light them at night.
But both of these situations are pest control and not actually considered hunting. But even then the pigs or deer are often put into flat bed trucks and taken to local processers to be turned into one pound meat packages and given to food banks for the poor. In most Southern States there is a program where you can drop off a deer at the food bank and a charity will pay for the processing (it is Statewide in Alabama).
I probably hunt more than almost everyone on this forum. I probably talk to more hunters on a routine basis than almost everyone on the forum. Against popular delusions, in the USA hunters are the ones who pay for wild land under preservation, game wardens, and most other wildlife protection efforts. There are more deer, bear, boar, wild cats, etc....... east of the Mississippi now than there have been since 1800. In the Coastal states along the Atlantic there is more game now than there has been since the 1730s. US population is increasingly urbanized - and large sections have gone back into forest. You might read the book "Nature Wars" which is a concise and well footnoted source.
from the movie HPB (hollow point bullet) :o
....any wild saw and piglets? ...Sometimes ... how do you shoot wild saw and piglets... Easy, just dont lead them to much ...hahahah ...aint pestcontrol hell
;)