Command LIVE (Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations)

[MIGMaster]

Something about paying per scenario just doesn't sit well with me. Begs the question if there will be expansions down the road - or a GOLD version that will offer more value for those who wait - or will this strategy prevent any further multi-scenario DLC from being released ?

On the other hand - paying near to $5.00 for a quality, well-crafted scenario may be a worthwhile investment, but maybe not one I want tied to current events?? Overall, I'm conflicted and will follow the old adage "when in doubt do nothing." 

[RyanE]

Also, what are the implications?  Can you detail them, I must be dense because I couldn't see them...

Here are my implications on spending $3...

Good

Faster development and release of official scenarios...vs the months we have waited
Inexpensive
Supported as game updates happen...this is a big issue.  The games improves so fast that community scenarios get left behind id authors aren't committed.
Community scenario builders that are good enough can build scenarios and make a little money

Bad

Buying individual scenarios is usually more expensive than a pack

I really can't come up with anything else.

[RyanE]

I really think if you think this is a bad idea, you should do nothing.  They have stated very clearly that this has no impact on future campaigns and packs.  This is so community scenario builders have a formal outlet and players get some quick content.  I am really struggling to see what the implications are that you mentioned.

Again, I'll point out...almost 100 official scenarios and several hundred community scenarios and ability to build any scenario in the world back to 1950.  Now the OPTION to buy for $3 a quick turnaround scenario in a series...I am stumped at the cost discussion.

[RyanE]

This frustrates the heck out of me.  A good developer with a great game decides to offer something up that is inexpensive and improves the community...and they get this.  What more can a company do.  If its $1, $0.50, $0.25, would it be amenable.  Or is the only way this works is they do it for free?

[Jarhead0331]

But if you don't want it, don't buy it.  There is a great and easy to use scenario editor where you can build your own.  In fact there are hundreds of free scenarios.  I am still not sure what the issue is.  Would it be better if they didn't offer this item?  Would that make everyone happy?  Is that the solution...stop making supported scenarios as DLC.

If you want to wait until a pack comes out, they do that too.  I guess I come back to someone thinking this is a bad idea.  At worst, it doesn't work and the devs wasted some time.  At best, some of their fans get scenarios faster.  The devs just stated that these are built by community members as well so they can make a little money also.  I am completely flumoxed that someone would complain about this.  I guess it just shows that a company can't please everyone.

Why are you "completely flummoxed"? These are micro transactions for a game that has already cost $60 to $80 depending on when you bought it. Now, people, are being charged $3.00 per scenario? No new assets, nothing new in the database, no new images, etc., just a single scenario, and you can't figure out why someone may be troubled by that? You may not care, or have a problem with it, but don't play stupid when it comes to why someone might not like the idea.

[RyanE]

I am not playing stupid, I probably am.  How much should they charge that would get you to buy it?  Or should they just not have the option available?  Should they only sell them in packs?

btw, there no new units because all the units needed are already in the database.  They put units in for free every day.  Find a unit not in the db, send them the info...poof...its in the database...for free.  Would you prefer they hold off on new units until they release a scenario that needs it?

I am genuinely curious at what they could to to make you think something is good.  I am just not sure what business model they can undertake that would satisfy you.  Should they never release new content?  Should they release it and it be free?  What content would you pay for?

[Jarhead0331]

Also, what are the implications?  Can you detail them, I must be dense because I couldn't see them...

Here are my implications on spending $3...

Good

Faster development and release of official scenarios...vs the months we have waited
Inexpensive
Supported as game updates happen...this is a big issue.  The games improves so fast that community scenarios get left behind id authors aren't committed.
Community scenario builders that are good enough can build scenarios and make a little money

Bad

Buying individual scenarios is usually more expensive than a pack

I really can't come up with anything else.

Yes, you are dense, and I don't much care for your attitude. I'm entitled to my opinion and don t need to be ostracized for it.

The major implication is that by paying for single scenarios, you are contributing to and furthering this methodology. High quality, free community scenarios will no longer be available and everything will become paid "DLC". Once again, whether you want to kiss the developers ass or not is up to you, but I think it's a bad idea and some people agree with me. Now I've said my peace, I'm not going to argue it further with you.

[RyanE]

But won't the market decide that.  The devs specifically said they were trying this out to see how it works.  All the points you brought up they addressed when it was announced. 

I mean come on...the actual community members are being rewarded for the work that goes into building a high quality scenario.  The guy who built the first one, Gunner98 on the forum, will be rewarded for taking his scenario to the next level in quality and supporting it going forward.  The funny thing is that someone already built a similar scenario last year.  But the DLC one is much better and supported.

Do you really think all scenario development will stop by the community?  I will bet you right now it doesn't.  Are you confident enough to take the bet for all to see?

And really?  that is the only implication you could come up with?  BFC did the same thing and it didn't seem to slow scenario development at all.

So what this comes down to is you want it for free.  Even community scenario builders like Gunner98 should never make money off the immense work it takes to build a complicated scenario and support it going forward.  You don't think those people should ever make any money.  Is that it?

Again, I'll ask...what should the devs do.  Never release new content?  Because releasing new units won't work because they already do those for free.  If you add up the total I have spent on Command in the three years...$100.  In three years.  They have upgraded that original engine a dozen times in those three years...for free.  Not a penny charged.  There are over 400 scenarios available right now.

How about they become a real company and start charging for major features and theaters like BFC, where I have probably spent $400.  How many games can you say that have made the major additions Command has added to itself, have 400 scenarios available, can produce any battle anywhere in the world, covers almost 100 years, and is as detailed as Command is?  All for less than $100.  Even the old Harpoon needed individual theaters and was more limited in scope...and I have probably spent over $200 on Harpoon.

[Jarhead0331]

But won't the market decide that.  The devs specifically said they were trying this out to see how it works.  All the points you brought up they addressed when it was announced.

Yes, the market will decide it, and if people like you actually spend your money on single scenarios, that will help drive further micro transactions with not only this game, but other games developed in the future and I think micro transactions for a wargame I've already paid EIGHTY DOLLARS for is a bad thing for the consumer.

I mean come on...the actual community members are being rewarded for the work that goes into building a high quality scenario.  The guy who built the first one, Gunner98 on the forum, will be rewarded for taking his scenario to the next level in quality and supporting it going forward.  The funny thing is that someone already built a similar scenario last year.  But the DLC one is much better and supported.

Great...good for them. For the first two years of the games existence, they were doing it for free to contribute to the community. If they want to solicit donations, fine, but peering up with the developer to overcharge for something that used to be released to simply further and expand the community, is a bad thing and it will chill the development of free content. Everyone will be looking to make a quick buck and the developer will now encourage users who ordinarily would have released free content to release through the developer for a charge .

Do you really think all scenario development will stop by the community?  I will bet you right now it doesn't.  Are you confident enough to take the bet for all to see?

Yes and Yes. Put your money where your mouth is. Feel free to PM me your terms. I'll consider and counter.

And really?  that is the only implication you could come up with?  BFC did the same thing and it didn't seem to slow scenario development at all.

You're comparing Battlefront modules to the single scenarios released for CMANO? Really?

So what this comes down to is you want it for free.  Even community scenario builders like Gunner98 should never make money off the immense work it takes to build a complicated scenario and support it going forward.  You don't think those people should ever make any money.  Is that it?

No. Its not for free. I've paid EIGHTY DOLLARS for the game. That is enough money to support future development. I don't have a beef against DLC, per se, but a single scenario priced at $3.00 is a bridge too far.  Make a campaign, I'll pay for that. Add certain forms of media, like videos, images, sounds, music...heck, I'll even pay for that too. But a single scenario...no thanks.

Again, I'll ask...what should the devs do.  Never release new content?  Because releasing new units won't work because they already do those for free.  If you add up the total I have spent on Command in the three years...$100.  In three years.  They have upgraded that original engine a dozen times in those three years...for free.  Not a penny charged.  There are over 400 scenarios available right now.

You are totally hyperbolizing my argument. My issue is with the release of a single scenario with no other content for $3.00. I don't take issue with DLC, or the release of new content, I just don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of which a $3.00 charge for a single scenario for a game I paid EIGHTY DOLLARS for makes me feel. Yes, there are over 400 scenarios released by the community for free. Now that the developer is involved and charging for the same content, that will cease, thanks for supporting that concept. 

How about they become a real company and start charging for major features and theaters like BFC, where I have probably spent $400.  How many games can you say that have made the major additions Command has added to itself, have 400 scenarios available, can produce any battle anywhere in the world, covers almost 100 years, and is as detailed as Command is?  All for less than $100.  Even the old Harpoon needed individual theaters and was more limited in scope...and I have probably spent over $200 on Harpoon.

Again, I have no problem with paying for major content releases including theaters, campaigns, etc. We are solely talking about a single scenario for $3.00.

[RyanE]

So you aren't done arguing...

So I'll put a $10 steam gift card on scenario releases staying at the same clip.  I work out new scenarios rates while on the plane tonight.

You didn't answer my question.  How many scenarios would have to be released in a pack for it to be worth it?  BFC released a scenario pack with a campaign.  Is there no circumstance where you would pay for any number of scenarios?  So in your world, the devs can never publish a series of scenarios that could have potentially been built by the community?  What about campaigns.  Those can and have been built by the community?  Are the devs ruining your gaming life by releasing campaigns that, in theory, be built by the community.  So let's tally this up for DLC...

1) New units...nope, they do that for free
2) Major feature additions...nope, they do that for free
3) Scenario (single)...nope because now the community won't build any more
4) Scenario packs...nope, same as above
5) Campaigns...nope, same as above.

So what can they build that cause you to spend money.  I assume you didn't buy Northen Inferno.  You know if you dig inside the free scenarios, you'll find some close to that.

So three years of actual feature-adding upgrades for $80.  That How long should the devs do major upgrades for free?  Do you think $80 is a lifetime of upgrades.  Not bug fixes, but actual upgrades.  How long should they keep adding features for that $80.

[Dimitris]

Command LIVE #2 is announced – v1.11 SR3 released

[RyanE]

So its been two weeks since the LIVE scenarios were announced.  In that two weeks 6 scenarios were completed and added to the community pack.  The two weeks before that, 4 were added, the two weeks before that, 2.  The two weeks before that there were none.

There were at least 6-7 being worked on during that two weeks, but none of them added to the community pack yet because they are not finished yet.  I didn't count any before that, but will track that as well.  Even though on first blush, it would appear that the LIVE release might have invigorated scenario development, the samples are too small to really declare any trend.  But you can see its pretty easy to track.  I would say a couple months should show the real trend, if one exists.  But starting out, its looking like I'll get $10...

[Jarhead0331]

So its been two weeks since the LIVE scenarios were announced.  In that two weeks 6 scenarios were completed and added to the community pack.  The two weeks before that, 4 were added, the two weeks before that, 2.  The two weeks before that there were none.

There were at least 6-7 being worked on during that two weeks, but none of them added to the community pack yet because they are not finished yet.  I didn't count any before that, but will track that as well.  Even though on first blush, it would appear that the LIVE release might have invigorated scenario development, the samples are too small to really declare any trend.  But you can see its pretty easy to track.  I would say a couple months should show the real trend, if one exists.  But starting out, its looking like I'll get $10...

It's looking like you'll get banned.

[bostonmyk]

Hi All

Mike from Warfaresims here. Nice string  :D

The goal is to to promote the game and community by producing and promoting scenarios relevant to current events. The hope is that player's will have a good few hours of fun, new people will try the game, player's will appreciate the designers and perhaps think and talk about current events. By all measures This seems to be working out.

To address some of your valid concerns.

• There is no dependency on a feature or database entry. That's all done in game.exe updates.
• There has been no drop in community scenario production and there is only a slight linkage. We do look to the community collection to see who can walk the talk but everything else is independent from idea conception to production level stuff.
• Nobody put a down payment on a Ferrari. We don't talk money on forums but there is a reality that must be accounted for 8)

Anyways hope you all are having a nice summer!

Mike

[Jarhead0331]

Hi All

Mike from Warfaresims here. Nice string  :D

The goal is to to promote the game and community by producing and promoting scenarios relevant to current events. The hope is that player's will have a good few hours of fun, new people will try the game, player's will appreciate the designers and perhaps think and talk about current events. By all measures This seems to be working out.

To address some of your valid concerns.

• There is no dependency on a feature or database entry. That's all done in game.exe updates.
• There has been no drop in community scenario production and there is only a slight linkage. We do look to the community collection to see who can walk the talk but everything else is independent from idea conception to production level stuff.
• Nobody put a down payment on a Ferrari. We don't talk money on forums but there is a reality that must be accounted for 8)

Anyways hope you all are having a nice summer!

Mike

Thanks for poking your head in.

just to be clear, I'm not criticizing anyone on the development team for trying this out. Personally, I just think its a bad trend from the perspective of the consumer. That being said, I've been involved with this game since it was in closed beta and think it is a wonderful accomplishment and I think the ongoing support of the game has been incredible. I'm really just arguing against a very narrow issue that I find problematic. Thats all.

Good luck with the future of the game!