Space Hulk Has Emerged From Warp! (Is this gonna be another bug hunt, sir?)

[undercovergeek]

Rab's review isn't encouraging.  However, based on his words, it sounds to me like playing it multiplayer with someone you know will be quite alright.  So that's what I'm hoping to do.  Might pick it up on pay day next week. :)

if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers

[Huw the Poo]

if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers

I'm waiting for an email from Bob but I'm strongly considering buying it this weekend.  If I do, do you want to go in on a two-pack on Steam?  Brings the price down to twenty squid.

[GJK]

having never played the board game i can imagine the drama he wants encapsulating with the misses and jams and the screaming in each others face - i just think thats the price you pay for playing a pc game and not a board game

+1  That was my thoughts as well reading this thread.  I have Blood Bowl, the boardgame and really enjoy it playing FtF with others.  I have the PC adaptation and it's nice to quickly pick up a game and play at any time, but the game play pales in comparison to live play.  I haven't played the PC game vs another live opponent however so I may enjoy that as much as the boardgame (doubtful but I might).

[undercovergeek]

if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers

I'm waiting for an email from Bob but I'm strongly considering buying it this weekend.  If I do, do you want to go in on a two-pack on Steam?  Brings the price down to twenty squid.

count me in - bob has it - an ex-lover of his bought it for him

[LongBlade]

Can you save mid-mission?

I haven't tried, but I think so. At one point I pulled up the main menu and noticed that it looked like I had the option to do so.

[ross_ntu]

May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.

[Huw the Poo]

May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.

Hmmm....I've always been wary of stuff like this.  Surely the keys are intended for Australian players?  If Valve ever have a reason to look at my account, isn't there a chance they may lock it if I've used one of these?

[JasonPratt]

In reply to several notes above so far:

1.) Yes, the undo button is at least a bit bugged; I've had it not give back command points, too.

2.) My gun jamming experience is maybe five times in three missions (with replays, around ten plays total) so far, not all of which were fatal jams that unraveled my defense and ended the game in a loss (maybe twice). Jamming in my experience is like what would be expected in the boardgame, unusual but it happens, and can be offset by spare action or command points.

3.) Yes, the game has both internet and hotseat play. Not sure about LAN yet. Yes, the genestealer team can be played with the ruleset the computer uses.



For some more observations of my own:

I feel like the original computer games (including Vengeance of the Blood Angels) did a much better job of tying the missions together plotwise. In the first game there was a whole separate book to explain how the various missions related to each other, and while there could have been improvements the connections were much stronger than I'm seeing here so far. The old games did port in classic boardgame map setups, like this game does, but had a lot more maps.

I also found myself appreciating how brilliantly the old games (even the largely borked sequel/update) designed the computer conversions for keeping the player totally invested every moment. This isn't so much a fault of this game, which is simply an adaptation of the boardgame rules, but I do wish someone would also remake VotBA which deserved a cleaner release, or even the original SH computer game. As much as I loved playing SH last night, I couldn't help feeling like trying to load up VotBA and attempting to like it again (despite its clunkiness) or even loading the original SH in Dosbox (which I have installed on my old laptop). VotBA brought a lot more detail and immersion to the game than this version does (including Chaos Marines!)

Also, I didn't realize airlocks were an innovation of the computer game, and I miss them a lot now: before there were some doors the stealers couldn't get through which could be opened and closed by the Marines. Now there are only the two original door types, those which anyone can open and close (at the cost of a point) and those which only the Marines can open (at the cost of at least one point maybe a lot more) but not close again. But considering how much trouble it would be to turn around, close a door, and turn around again (or turn around, back through it, close and turn around), maybe that's just as well: now that I think of it, the mechanic works better in a pausable realtime game, and wouldn't work well on this one.

Having stealers preset on the map to pop out of hidden locations was a good idea, too, although admittedly hard to fairly implement in what amounts to a two-player game on repeatable maps (with the computer using the rules for the second player).

[JasonPratt]

Adding a further comment to how much better the original SH comp game put the missions together, even though only in a separate book: the book features a lot more information about the historical situation, allowing new players to be immersed in the context of the lore. Not so much this game.

Replying to the RPS review:

1.) The lumbering terminator movement doesn't bother me, I find it immersive in a way, although its annoyance highlights a weakness in the original lore: nowadays, normal Space Marines would probably work as well or better because the extra armor on the Terminators counts for practically nothing (also this game dates from a time in the WH40K development when the Termies were also called Dreadnoughts, which sure isn't true anymore: Dreadnoughts are now much larger tanks with crippled Marines inside who cannot get out anymore.)

Still I agree that someone should have coded in an option to turn off movement animations.


2.1) I haven't had any problem recognizing doors yet, since they typically start off closed; and I can't imagine any tactical reason yet why someone would waste a ton of action/command points closing one for the brief moment a stealer would need to open it. (There wasn't any reason to do that in the SH-FPS game either, except for the airlocks which stealers couldn't open once sealed.)

2.2.) While the graphics might count as cluttered, that's part of the setting. They're dark, but I wouldn't call them muddy at all. Nor would I recommend bothering in the slightest about the shoulder-camera view. (I do wish the game could be played from the abstract overhead map with all the shoulder cameras on, somewhat similar to the old SH-FPS, but that would be a different kind of immersion.) I like the action shot closeups, but of course those aren't any use for tactical planning.


3.) I can't comment about the glitches he's talking about, as I haven't seen a single one of them yet, although I wonder if they're similar to glitches others have mentioned in this thread? If the glitches only appear on certain hardware, that might explain why the devs thought there was no problem and released it.


4.) Having the stealer value labeled during the SM turn seems like a bug, or a programming oversight, not a design choice. It should certainly be rectified.


5.) Oh if only there was some tool by which we could talk to opponents and taunt them by voice in the middle of games!--oh wait, there is. Otherwise, does the reviewer think all multiplayer computer games are boring when the other player is too far away to talk about the game with them? (Trying to control's one fate by rolling dice is admittedly something no game is ever going to quite simulate, even if they simulate rolling dice by clicking a button.)


6.) I found turning on the action camera helps a little with the lack of tension in the stealer charges.

[donkey_roxor]

(also this game dates from a time in the WH40K development when the Termies were also called Dreadnoughts, which sure isn't true anymore: Dreadnoughts are now much larger tanks with crippled Marines inside who cannot get out anymore.)

Nerd note: Terminator armor is still known as "tactical dreadnought" armor. This is to differentiate from the larger Dreadnoughts. I don't think Terminators were ever actually called "Dreadnoughts".

[JasonPratt]

Ah, thx, so noted!  :D

[ross_ntu]

May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.

Hmmm....I've always been wary of stuff like this.  Surely the keys are intended for Australian players?  If Valve ever have a reason to look at my account, isn't there a chance they may lock it if I've used one of these?

As far as I am aware they are legitimate sites although can't vouch for this one specifically - it is only the same as what Greenmangaming / Gamersgate do when they sell a Steam game.  Usually I go here: http://www.dlcompare.com/ to check prices and to get an idea of whether the site in question is decent.  They specify if the key is region locked.  Most are region free, although Russian keys seem to be locked due to being a lot cheaper.

[Huw the Poo]

Thanks Ross_ntu.  That's a good point about Gamersgate et al.

However, I'm having second thoughts about Space Hulk now.  I don't like how heavily reliant on luck you are.  I just watched a vid of someone playing on Youtube, and one of his terminators spent two full turns firing at a genestealer who was just standing still...took him until the last shot of his last turn to get the kill.

I prefer to win because I played well, or lose because I played badly, than to come up with a great plan only to have it fail because I kept rolling 1s. :(

[LongBlade]

I may have hit one bug. For some reason an Undo command didn't work for me. But it may have been me as I had started to work on another unit, then came back. I'm not clear how many Undos you can make.

[panzerde]

Not being the Space Hulk board game purist that the RPS reviewer is, I found the review overly harsh.  Is this a great game?  No.  Is it an entertaining, beer & pretzels turn-based tactical game in the WH40K universe?  Yes.  I think whether or not it is "Space Hulk" depends a great deal on how much you love and played the actual board game.  I certainly don't regret spending the money on it.