As title over at Matrix if anyone is interested...I might be tempted as I have all the others - some reading is required though me thinks
Great news. I'll see if I can get a copy now.
Although it has one of my most requested features (ability to load/unload troops & guns), I want to see how this was implemented and does the AI make use of it?
What CC campaign system is it using? Besides the new graphics, what else is new?
I know it's called Panthers in the Fog - but I didn't actually think there was a fog "overlay"...I do NOT like the look of that...watching the video I was really straining to see clearly and just kept thinking someone had put cling film on my eyes!
Check out this video at about 4 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvADHrcfS3I
Well, it does look like fog but, I'd go blind playing that!
if you havnt gone blind yet its safe to play with anything.
Steve McClaire at our forums (Matrix) mentioned that if a lot of people want an option fog setting, it might be something implemented. It wasn't something that really came up in beta testing, and it never really bothered me.
Well - honestly (and I'm not just bashing - I like the CC games) - I'd want an option. This was a possible buy as long as favourable reviews were out, but I simply could not play with that overlay...I honestly felt like my eyes were clouded. You know when you look at something and it feels like your eyes rather than what you're looking at - it made my eyes water (slightly).
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 19, 2012, 04:46:06 PM
if you havnt gone blind yet its safe to play with anything.
You know what your mother always used to say...
:P
"stop showing the girl next door your weenie"?
I want an option to autoresolve battles. Or save during battles. The campaign systems is so tedious, requiring you to fight every battle in every sector everyday. I have never finished a CC campaign except for CC2 and CC3 which are more linear.
Quote from: ScottP on November 19, 2012, 04:53:55 PM
Steve McClaire at our forums (Matrix) mentioned that if a lot of people want an option fog setting, it might be something implemented. It wasn't something that really came up in beta testing, and it never really bothered me.
I didn't mind it. Takes a bit of getting used to. What you don't get from the fog is how far a unit can effectively see. But you do get the sense that visibility is limited.
Just played my first game. Good stuff. If you like Close Combat this looks like another good addition to the family.
Im waiting for more reviews and opinions from people that I know before getting this.
Thank heavens! I thought something was wrong with my monitor.
I was emailed by US Brake months ago about my CC3 Grand Campaign.
perhaps I should take the email more seriously now.
hmmmmm
The game is absolutely beautiful...without the fog. I get what is being strived as far as the effect but it's just IMO too much. If they can make it a toggle on/off feature, it'll be better for the community. The hardcore MP/solo guys can toggle it on for the realism effect. The more casual guys like me can toggle it off.
I've been playing an operation game and it's damned fun. I love my panthers. Kick ass armor.
I wonder how moddable it is ie new maps.
the western front kinda bores me and Id much rather have a eastern front setting.
some korsun pocket or oder fights.
Not sure about that but I've had some nice armor battles so far between US Shermans and German Panthers.
Quote from: jomni on November 19, 2012, 09:40:45 PM
I want an option to autoresolve battles. Or save during battles. The campaign systems is so tedious, requiring you to fight every battle in every sector everyday. I have never finished a CC campaign except for CC2 and CC3 which are more linear.
+1 , autoresolve please
it kept me from finishing campaigns too
...i even had thought in the past about analysing a saved game with a utility (CC:autosolver, a project i would have planed to programmed myself) over it, that does the calculation based on the information, and reload the altered saved game in the main program again.... the project didn't mad it bedind the brainstorm how the calc has to done in detail, i also wanted to take the map postion in possession taken into account
auto resolve in a game like CC is just stupid.
the tactical battles ARE the game. theyre the meat and potatos of the solo game.
why not play them? are you in a rush? has it been easy to find opponents?
savior the battles. sharpen your skills. use the existing game options.
is a 15 minute battle so hard to play?
man up.
Well I've been offically sucked into the game. Playing an operational game as the Americans and the first 3 battles went my way fairly easily. Now the last 2 battles have been brutal very little ground gained, major losses of Shermans, Anti-Tank tanks, infantry units. The German Panthers are owning 2 key battle ground points. They have a freaking artillery piece or mortar sections somewhere on the map and I cannot find them which is really causing some major issues. I needed to stop and take a break to rethink my plan. Damn good fun. Well worth the $40. The fog isn't bothering me as much, but I still think there needs to be an option to toggle on/off in the options menu.
how is the load/unload feature working?
I haven't used it yet honestly. The option of taking a half track has not been as appealing as taking an extra mortar section or AT tank or MG team for my support choices. I do need to check it out because I screw myself in a battle when I took an AT gun but nothing to tow it with so it would have been stuck. Unfortunately for me a Panther took it out so that issue never really came up.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 03:05:00 AM
is a 15 minute battle so hard to play?
man up.
A 15 minute battle isn't hard to play.
30 largely unimportant 15 minute battles are hard to play. :P
Admittedly, if the game autoresolved poorly or even got a legitimate but unlikely result, we'd be upset and think we ought to have dealt with the matter ourselves. ;)
I like the game. Now if I could just figure out how to take out the damned Panthers my gaming would be so much easier.
Quote from: Bison on November 20, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
I like the game. Now if I could just figure out how to take out the damned Panthers my gaming would be so much easier.
Sounds vaguely familiar.
I've thrown everything I've got at them but generally my efforts have been piecemeal. I need to have a freaking coordinated attack and get them to expose the rear of the tank to my big guns. Seriously there is no way to discuss destroying a Panther without it sounding like a sexual act. Disturbing. Very disturbing.
Quote from: Bison on November 20, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
I've thrown everything I've got at them but generally my efforts have been piecemeal. I need to have a freaking coordinated attack and get them to expose the rear of the tank to my big guns. Seriously there is no way to discuss destroying a Panther without it sounding like a sexual act. Disturbing. Very disturbing.
You've been hanging around Star too long.
Lucky for you the Germans named them Panthers and not Cougars or you'd really be in trouble.
Panthers are hard to penetrate.
Cougars not so much ;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 02:19:43 PM
Panthers are hard to penetrate.
Cougars not so much ;)
Case
In
Point
Cougars in the Fog, a hot new club opening up on Chicago's North Side next year.
chances are youre going to have to sacrifice something to get those tanks to turn their sides to you.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 02:41:30 PM
chances are youre going to have to sacrifice something to get those tanks to turn their sides to you.
That's what she said.
you make if difficult to keep threads on track Mr Mod guy.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 03:27:49 PM
you make if difficult to keep threads on track Mr Mod guy.
First rule of GrogHeads: we never talk about GrogHeads.
Second rule of GrogHeads: threads are automatically derailed by women and alcohol.
so youre a drunk woman now?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
so youre a drunk woman now?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=8603e6684adb44bdc2ee527335efa8e297a88686) Might be time to start wearing a mask while you paint, buddy.
you said threads are automatically derailed by women and alcohol.
you derailed the thread.
therefore you must be a drunk woman.
its all pretty simple to see.
I still like the game.
any chance of a screen shot of the strategic map?
Here you go.
thanks.
can you customize your battlegroups or are they preset for you?
Just watched the gameplay video and think I'll stick with the CCs I've already got.
Like the addition of NATO icons to the units.
Hate the fog.
Hate the way they have split up the info panels - one top left other bottom right (rather than all together along the bottom of the screen) which means you are constantly flitting your attention on the screen up,down,left and right rather than a quick glance to the bottom of the screen.
So-So about the battle depicted as I don't know much about it.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 20, 2012, 07:31:50 PM
thanks.
can you customize your battlegroups or are they preset for you?
You can customize your battlegroups. There are 3 platoons. 2 combat platoons and a support platoon.
You always get one combat platoon and the size of the second combat platoon is determined by the size of your forces in the area. The support platoon slots are also determined by the size of force in the area. The support platoon is pretty cool because you choose by individual team/vehicle.
Woohoo! I've taken out 2 of the panthers. Everything is coming up Bison!
Disregard. I've gone back to be sucky. :(
I might be addicted to this game.
good to hear.
Good grief. Seriously. What the hell historically took out Panthers? I'm winning the current battle board through painful attrition which I'm sure will come back to bite me in the next two boards.
how many air strikes are you getting?
I haven't received any yet which is part of my struggle. Although it's possible I missed one or two in an early battle but certainly zero in the last 4 battles. 3 of which had all the conditions to get one; day light and clear weather.
I know a lot of folks are sort of writing this one off as yet another re-tread of an old engine which is too bad. I haven't logged this much time into a wargame in quite sometime. You going to buy it Star?
Quote from: Bison on November 20, 2012, 11:54:11 PM
What the hell historically took out Panthers?
The IS-2 on the Eastern Front and American close air support on the Western.
The Brits had the Firefly. Its 17-pounder crammed into a Sherman had the punch but lacked the armor to stand toe-to-toe with anything but a PzIV.
Historically you took five Shermans into a fight with one Panther. Sacrifice four to get the fifth one on its flank. American armor sucked.
At the very end of the war we fielded the Jackson, but IIRC we had about six of them in action when the war ended - not nearly enough to do more than prove the concept.
Some folks will argue that the first time America fielded a superior MBT was the M1 Abrams.
Pershings LB, Pershings ;)
I'm thinking there is something amiss with the armor values. I pounded the crap out a Panther with 4 tanks 2 Sherman, 1 Sherman106 and an AT M10 from the sides and the back and didn't dent it. It however wiped out all four of mine.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 21, 2012, 12:49:48 AM
Pershings LB, Pershings ;)
Right. Sorry. It's getting late. I'd like to blame the wine but it's only my second glass.
My problem is that I read recreationally rather than for knowledge. My brain gets stuffed with so much stuff that I can't remember what I can't remember.
Quote from: Bison on November 21, 2012, 01:01:25 AM
I'm thinking there is something amiss with the armor values. I pounded the crap out a Panther with 4 tanks 2 Sherman, 1 Sherman106 and an AT M10 from the sides and the back and didn't dent it. It however wiped out all four of mine.
That could be.
The problem with all of this is that it isn't as cut-and-dried as it might look on paper.
The Germans had a serious shortage of molybdenum in the late war. As a result their armor was more brittle than it ought to have looked on paper.
That said, a game is only as good as what was put into it. I wonder if the code takes into account flank and rear armor? If not then we might be looking at a game simulating what might have happened if the Germans had managed to field the King Tiger in real numbers. ;)
King Tiger was an overrated piece of crap. How's that for armor heresy?
I'm going to need to runs some tests if I can figure out how to set it up. I want to know. I'm like Leonard Nemoy "In Search of..."
Quote from: Wolfe1759 on November 20, 2012, 07:43:15 PM
Hate the way they have split up the info panels - one top left other bottom right (rather than all together along the bottom of the screen)
Wolfe, you can grab and drag each of the 3 info panels with right mouse click to any place on the screen to arrange them to your needs.
on fog: there is a strong urge from the player community to get a on/off switch with a patch ... so very likely it get implemented
(in addition there is no fog in zoomed out view... and i am finding my self more often zoomed out then zoomed in to orchestra the battle and don't miss events on other parts of the frontline)
btw: i like the way on-board mortars are handled now.
it take some time, then it shoots 2 zero-in rounds slow, then a fast barrage of 4-6 rounds, then fire mission is over, BUT the spot stay registered and is marked on the map, and can be hit with a new fire mission without zeroing-in.
in older CC games i sometimes wasted my ammo because i didn't end a firemission,
...and the gamy use of mortars as a über-weapon is much reduced now .
from the receiving side: i will have to find out if a gun-empalcement can be 'evacuated' with a vehicle next to it, when the first spotting round drops nearby
I also like the motar registration. I think you get the last three spots that the calculations remain in effect. I forgot that your mortars fired until dry in earlier games.
Quote from: Bison on November 20, 2012, 07:10:08 PM
Here you go.
Still not sure about this - I have a couple of the others and they kind of fall by the wayside fairly quickly.
The system that picture represents in Combat Mission would be a dream however.
Quote from: Bison on November 21, 2012, 01:08:18 AM
King Tiger was an overrated piece of crap. How's that for armor heresy?
I completely agree. (Thus my smiley)
Its engine was the same one used to power the Panther - a vehicle almost half its weight.
Quote from: Bison on November 20, 2012, 11:54:11 PM
Good grief. Seriously. What the hell historically took out Panthers? I'm winning the current battle board through painful attrition which I'm sure will come back to bite me in the next two boards.
Russian 88s.
Lack of fuel/ammo.
Fireflies (?)
Air power.
Gundams.
downloading now.
MUHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA MUUAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
cough cough
excuse me.
not a fan of the infantru squad sizes so far.
where are my 9 man teams?
All I know is that the Panthers are starting to really piss me off. I cannot destroy them. 5 and 6 tanks hitting them from multiple directions and nothing. AT M10 hitting them from behind and nothing same song second verse. Panther's turret swivels and pick off mine one by one with mostly one shot one kills. I have to be doing something wrong but I haven't cracked the code.
mine dont seem to like being close assaulted very much.
Bison, i lost 2 Panthers in a 'fog battle' (1st in the first operation, IIRC) when i got to carefree, they fell victim to M10s or maybe a hidden bazooka from a house close by (i didn't saw a AT team so, but the M10s got spotted on the map later) distance was about the half screen size vertical
The game has some internal error issues that are breaking my saves. I'm confident it'll get worked out but it's breaking my will to keep playing. I've started the Central Slugfest campaign 4 times now and each one has ended about around 1200 on the second day due to the program crashing. I'll need to did out my one of my other CC games to install. Not sure if I want to play TLD or LSA. Decisions...decisions.
Im 2 complete turns into the historical GC with no crashes. I did get 1 crash on the 3rd turn of the Into The Flank Op.
Apparently the crash is related to infantry platoons that are using replacement forces yours or your opponent. Are you battles or have you completed full days that have had replacements added into your infantry platoons?
I've started playing TLD instead and I already miss the new graphics. They are so much better. Although I do like the old UI placement better.
Quote from: Bison on November 21, 2012, 01:01:25 AM
I'm thinking there is something amiss with the armor values. I pounded the crap out a Panther with 4 tanks 2 Sherman, 1 Sherman106 and an AT M10 from the sides and the back and didn't dent it. It however wiped out all four of mine.
It makes me wonder if armor values for flanks and rear even exist, or if the unit just has one armor value. Strange.
So far I've only played two scenarios, one with light recon tanks and one with PzIVs. The recon tanks were fragile as eggs - not unexpected. PzIVs never got hit by what I figured were inexperienced Sherman crews. Not exactly a surprise. The PzIV one-shotted the Sherman with a flank shot. Again - behavior as expected.
I'll have to do some digging into more to see this odd behavior.
Steve said that a tanks armor is calculated seperately for the turret and the body. Your tanks have a chance to hit the turret or the body and the corresponding facing is what is used to calculate the damage. So without an ablity to target a specific location on the tank it's left up to your AI to choose. My appareantly choose wrong everytime. :D
Quote from: Bison on November 22, 2012, 01:35:40 PM
Steve said that a tanks armor is calculated seperately for the turret and the body. Your tanks have a chance to hit the turret or the body and the corresponding facing is what is used to calculate the damage. So without an ablity to target a specific location on the tank it's left up to your AI to choose. My appareantly choose wrong everytime. :D
That engine needs an overhaul. Might as well give units hit points/health bars then.
I'm not sure how "damage" is tabulated but it's the chance to penetrate the armor that matters. A hit on the front = no chance basically A hit on the side/back = chance to penetrate and destroy.
so far Ive taken out Pz-4s with Greyhounds and Stuarts. to be fair though the Pz-4s, while operating together ran into 2 units of 3 vehicles each.
on the flip side of this Ive probably had 5 or 6 Panthers get tracked and one surrendered to close assaults. I havnt had one get destroyed yet.
the ai is being aggresive in both campaigns in certain fights. in the early battles the US ai is being a bit low key but I expect that with the forces they
have to use. Im sure Bison will love to know that at least one of those Panther units has 23 Panthers and 6 Jagdpanzer 4's 8) guess which unit is
my spearhead? MUHAHAHA. so far Im 3 complete turns into the US campaign and 6 complete turns into the German one. I do not like the GUI so
much across the board. why change something that worked fine. <-yes thats a period not a question mark as its a statement. I have not had a crash
in the campains, only the one in an operation. get back to playing it Bison, Im going to need a human opponent next week and Ive selected you as
my victim opponent.
Listen I've got no problem playing but the crash bug is killing my motivation. The Panters are great when you are controlling them. It's when your American tanks are going plink plink plink that it get you by the short and curly ones.
you can have the Germans.
how many crashes have you had?
Every campaign has ended with the crash. So I've started 6 operational campaigns and have gotten to 4-6 battles and then it crashes. Steve said they are looking into the issue and will fix ASAP.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 22, 2012, 09:13:45 PM
get back to playing it Bison, Im going to need a human opponent next week and Ive selected you as
my victim opponent.
I can give you a hand with that if Bison has any scheduling conflicts.
Im getting annoyed that every time I pick some panzershreks for my group they never show up in the actual game. >:(
I just had my first two panthers killed in the same battle.
the first was, and I hate to say it, due to a pathing problem on a street. what should have been a short, less then 15 meter, move forward ended up with the tank turning broadside to a sherman. BOOM! dead panther.
the second was to a P-38 airstrike. both tanks were no where near each other. if I hadnt been so fixated on the first panthers idiocy I would have noticed the
yellow smoke and moved the 2nd panther. that doesnt mean it would have lived, just that I was pretty pissed.
I'm hoping for some pathing problems to present themselves and cause my nemisis to turn it's back to my hidden M10s.
If you gents are looking for an opponent, I would gladly be your punching bag. It's been years since I've done CC MP but then again I was a young'in with no facial hair.
Now I am older, wiser, and have a cop mustache.
I'm playing the Avrances battle. What is an HMC?
Quote from: Bismarck on November 23, 2012, 04:17:57 PM
I'm playing the Avrances battle. What is an HMC?
Howitzer Motor Carriage. (M8)
Sounds useful! Thanks.
Based on the M5 Stuart chassis, open-topped turret with short-barrel 75mm for close infantry support. AKA M8 Scott.
the rash of crashes is getting annoying.
on two maps if Im about to wipe out the opfor the game crashes so Im stuck giving a truce just before the crash.
personally I think Im making the AI rage quit.
at least thats what I keep telling myself.
I really need to take a screenshot of that map though. after 6 or 7 battles there have to be 30 to 40 wrecks on the field 8)
Anyone ever try playing Combat Mission in real time top down to mimic CC? I did years ago with the wego games and it just didn't do anything for me since you can't get a lay of the land that you do in over the shoulder mode.
I'm tempted to get this because it is the end and it will get all the mods, but every time I try any real time game I get frustrated and give up.
overall its not a bad game. one or two patches to sort out some bs and it will be good to go.
the thing I think both the designers and the public forget about this game is what it was that put it into the legendary catagory for so many.
THE MULTYPLAYER!!!
CC2 and CC3 benefited from having Microsoft sell and distribute the game and their multiplayer system and lobby really helped form a strong
community that played, promoted and modded the game to hell and back. all subsequent editions of the game have lacked this and thats
made the focus on solo play even stronger. this however is not the game engines strength. there is a lot of validity to the idea that the CC
series has gone as far as it can go without either a major rewrite or starting from scratch.
Not reading you there, old boy. How is the PitF multiplay system inferior to the old one? Not enough players or what?
I say old chap, the simple fact that the game isnt being pimped by Microsoft limits the amount of people that are going to play. each version and publisher since then has limited the game more and more to a niche market. I also dont like the current system of having to register at slitherine to get into the game lobby.
I found a way to help me with the fog. Go to Options on the main page and select "Outline soldiers in black".
@Star
If you're signed up for the Slitherine forum, you're already registered for MP.
I am and I wasnt.
but do you get my point about distribution?
I got your point. Can't see a resolution unless you feel S&M isn't doing their part.
the best solution I can think of is to make an open lobby that just checks what CC games you have regardless of who made them.
Indeed. I went into the lobby and found nobody and left a post. Remarks over at the indie CC site were negative about the lobby.
perhaps they should pimp it to Steam to get traffic?
I do think though that it was the multiplayer that made the CC franchise.
Quote from: Bismarck on November 24, 2012, 02:15:30 PM
I got your point. Can't see a resolution unless you feel S&M isn't doing their part.
I dont see how leather whips and handcuffs are going to help the game.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 24, 2012, 09:21:36 PM
Quote from: Bismarck on November 24, 2012, 02:15:30 PM
I got your point. Can't see a resolution unless you feel S&M isn't doing their part.
I dont see how leather whips and handcuffs are going to help the game.
Well, Slitherine IS British. ;)
then it should at least have the good graces to offer me a spot of tea and a crumpet before crashing on me again.
Quote from: Bismarck on November 24, 2012, 12:57:46 PM
How is the PitF multiplay system inferior to the old one?
M&S claims it works out of the box, so two pals setting up a MP don't have to know anything about external IP's, portforwarding-setup at their specific router-types, network doohickey , and such ...
but this come for a price:
If M&S decide one day to shut down the PitF-lobby (maintenance cost ...or forcing the mainstream audience to the new 3d-top-down game as a side effect, if you want to think evil ;) ) PitF is f%&#ed.
well, If the PitF-lobby is just a 'hook up' and all the packages send by all the ongoing MP games, aren't really went trough their server, and peer two peer after the first handshake and only a limit bandwidth is needed, they may allow an CC enthusiast (maybe a trusted ol'hand modder from the Community ) to host their software to keep it afloat... and the mods that hopefully come out too.
some good news after reading over thematrix forums. theres a forum member named xe5. for those that dont know or dont remember thats Mick. hes one of the original modders of the CC games and was responsible for a lot of the tools used to make the game better.
looks like good times!!!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F31774%2F56680A04DB0C41BDA058D77A1D0DB411.jpg&hash=19d1dbf079be9252aff1e774f0d9c0089be7eb47)
and just to make Bison feel worse, I had a Panther get killed by a friking Stuart with a flank shot.
That is simply impossible!
I can't imagine any way a 37mm is going penetrate a Panther's armour at any point.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 25, 2012, 12:57:46 PM
and just to make Bison feel worse, I had a Panther get killed by a friking Stuart with a flank shot.
What was the range to target? Under 500 yards the Stuart's 37mm gun could penetrate almost 60mm of armor if it wasn't sloped. That was with APC.
range was under 200 yards and it was a flank shot. a hit along the side by the engine could take it out especially if its between the road wheels and under the lip of the armor.
there may be a patch out tomorrow.
and a small annoyance that is really starting to grate on my visual nerves.
the game is set in france during the late summer. why the hell are all of the shadows going in the wrong direction?
the sun doesnt orbit the polar regions. the shadows should fall north not south.
quick fix for that 'internal error' problem:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3221842
In summer in Normandy the sun rises quite far in the Northeast
and sets equally far in the Northwest. Around midday shadows
should be North facing and short. The rest of the day they will
rotate from Southwest thru North to Southeast, being quite long
in the early morning and late evening. The world is round.
the sun isnt that far north that its casting southern shadows in France.
ever.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 01:02:30 PM
the sun isnt that far north that its casting southern shadows in France.
ever.
Maybe it's a hypothetical scenario. But instead of the poles reversing...
the Earth reversed while the poles stayed where they are!
I get that shortdan is no fan of mine but one simply cant go mucking about with spatial trigonometry.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 01:20:24 PM
I get that shortdan is no fan of mine but one simply cant go mucking about with spatial trigonometry.
Yeah, like I mean, spatula trig is always key in my reviews.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 01:20:24 PM
I get that shortdan is no fan of mine but one simply cant go mucking about with spatial trigonometry.
Maybe it's dimensional.
Panthers in the Space-Time Fog.
I live at 53N or so. I am not trying to make trouble for you Star.
It just is. I watched the sun come up a lot in summer. Mortain is 48 1/2 N.
About the same as Fargo, ND. Further North in midsummer the sun will actually
appear fairly far north in the middle of the night. Yes light at night.
I haven't ordered the game yet so I have not seen the shadows therein.
late summer france:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmatrixgames.com%2Ffiles%2Fgames%2F433%2F20121004102654.jpg&hash=99397f92910b450a95473d2d8cc1f5ee9989cc9d)
the shadows are wrong.
A definite game breaker. :P
Good eyes, gents!
If the top is North those shadows could be correct for late evening in summer -
otherwise not. If they got the sun on the wrong side which side are the Germans on?
Left or right?
We are grogs. Hear us roar.
;)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 01:02:30 PM
the sun isnt that far north that its casting southern shadows in France.
ever.
I have no clue what you all are talking about. All I know is that Marseille, one of the most southern cities (and one of the few ports facing West) is close to the same parallel as Portsmouth, NH.
According to this calculator (http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/azel.html), the Azimuth of the sun in Marseille, at noon on May 8, 1945 (just a random date) was 269.73 - almost due West. In Paris, on the same date and time, the Azimuth was 160, or almost due South-Southeast. On Omaha beach, the sun was at 153.
Even at 6 PM, in Northern France, the sun is at 270 - due West.
In late summer, the numbers are fairly similar, and even at 1800H in August, you aren't going to see the sun's azimuth in the north or northwest.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 27, 2012, 08:28:08 PM
We are grogs. Hear us roar.
;)
or retch, as the case may be.
A. I used to make CC maps.
B. Im an artist who knows his geography.
C. for 95% of players it would never be noticed.
D. having now spent about 50 hours playing its just one of those things that get to me.
So Bison, do you prefer this one or SB:WWI? I had written this one off, but CC: A Bridge Too Far was the first wargame I ever played.
I do not know where S o'M got those azimuths etc.
I have watched the sun come up and go down hundreds of times
if not thousands. And I mean watched it as it was part of my job.
Between the shortest and the longest day of the year the actual
spot where the sun appears over the trees varies quite a bit. I do
not know the exact amount but somewhere over 90 degrees of horizon
for both the sunrise and sunset points over the course of a year
here in Edmo. Around Mortain it would be less but not much less. In Florida
it would not move much at all. In the high arctic the sun doesn't set
but does go all the way around the sky in summer. At the summer solstice
the sun here comes up considerably north of straight East and goes down
an equal distance North of straight West. Around the equinox it comes up
more or less straight East and goes down straight West. In summer the sun
is quite high and to the south at zenith, in winter very low and south.
23 1/2 degrees and all that you freakin climate experts. We do not get
winter because Santa needs snow.
I linked the Azimuth calculator in the post.
Okay... if you look at the ERSL calculator (the updated one linked in the first page) That SO'M provided
you can see the apparent path of the sun as viewed from the surface at Mortain, France
for Aug 7th the start of Operation Luttich.....sun rises apparently North of East
and sets North of West. Just put the marker on Mortain, input the date and click on the
sunrise and sunset boxes. The apparent path of the sun will appear on the map.
The sun of course does not actually move the earth does.
dude... just STFU!
no matter what your excuse is the shadows in game are wrong.
just accept it and move on.
in more important news the hotfix patch will let you continue with current saved games.
tools are being dug up to make the vehicles look better.
and after mucking around a bit Im still going to maintain my opinion that the pathfinding is more a problem with map coding then AI.
hopefully by the middle of next week Ill have a pretty comprehensive review of PitF.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2F2vvs193.jpg&hash=54f8807ee434fa9866581e1ff4dfc80229a6b8c5)
your both right :)
its just a question of the Magnitude of Grognardism in use ;)
yes, at this latitude at that historic days the sun went down "roughly WNW" (290°) fitting to Longdan's local observations and extrapolation to that place and time in France
yes, the shadows are wrong (overdone), like Star tells us.
to give the 45° shadow direction in the pic they need the sun at NW (315°) and a good portion over the horizon, but visual sunset position is only 295°. at that day
also, even on 21 June (summer solstice, the longest day) they sunset is not further North than 309°, so exactly this shadow-pic will never set in...
i wish the AI were as close to reality as the artist's impression shadows
btw: did anyboy witnessed the AI use the transport feature at least once?
(for the overnext patch: starting with 'infantry loaded' in setup in some situations, would maybe help the AI 'to generate' at least the expression they would use it, riding to a covered position, which atm the AI would just march the unit, unload, and then march (move / sneak) the rest to the calculated destination...)
Thank you Mike.
STFU is soooo classy.
Quote from: Longdan on November 28, 2012, 08:09:38 AM
Thank you Mike.
STFU is soooo classy.
Yeah, Star, I know the shadows irritate you, but let's try to be polite to each other.
I did not say they were right. Just that they could face away from North.
Anyway I will still likely buy it but I guess it is only Germans and USA.
I have always liked this series. CC2 was my son's first computer wargame.
He would regularly beat the pants off me when he was very small.
I had bad AI.
I should be available for some mp this weekend.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 28, 2012, 08:11:31 AM
Quote from: Longdan on November 28, 2012, 08:09:38 AM
Thank you Mike.
STFU is soooo classy.
Yeah, Star, I know the shadows irritate you, but let's try to be polite to each other.
I figured STFU stood for Sun Too Far Up.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
A. I used to make CC maps.
How's come you didn't make any maps for CCM and it's multiple versions?
I was looking to do a historical Belleau Woods scenario............
Quote from: Bison on November 28, 2012, 12:32:29 PM
I should be available for some mp this weekend.
Great. I'll PM you.
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 28, 2012, 02:17:40 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
A. I used to make CC maps.
How's come you didn't make any maps for CCM and it's multiple versions?
I was looking to do a historical Belleau Woods scenario............
that was back during a very busy real life period of time.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 28, 2012, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: Smuckatelli on November 28, 2012, 02:17:40 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
A. I used to make CC maps.
How's come you didn't make any maps for CCM and it's multiple versions?
I was looking to do a historical Belleau Woods scenario............
that was back during a very busy real life period of time.
If you had time to sleep back then...you had time to make a historically correct Belleau Woods map.
Quote from: LongBlade on November 27, 2012, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 27, 2012, 01:20:24 PM
I get that shortdan is no fan of mine but one simply cant go mucking about with spatial trigonometry.
Maybe it's dimensional.
Panthers in the Space-Time Fog.
It's that color-condensate gluon soup fog stuff.
I promised Bismarck I'd play a MP game or two this weekend, so maybe I'll see a few of you guys on!
The more, the better!
I'll need to install the fix before we play if you want to do linked battles.
Quote from: Bison on November 28, 2012, 05:46:58 PM
I'll need to install the fix before we play if you want to do linked battles.
Bison, I think my question got lost in the shuffle - if you could pick this one or SB:WWI, which should I get?
Quote from: son_of_montfort on November 28, 2012, 11:40:15 PM
Quote from: Bison on November 28, 2012, 05:46:58 PM
I'll need to install the fix before we play if you want to do linked battles.
Bison, I think my question got lost in the shuffle - if you could pick this one or SB:WWI, which should I get?
Did you like SB when you played in the past? There is a lot of micromanagement involved with selecting, moving and firing units. The war front has changed with some special rules, but the gameplay is the same.
PitF has some technical issues right now with the linked campaign battles. There is a hot fix but I haven't played with it yet and cannot confirm whether it works are not. That being said the battles are very managable and the amount of micro is really up to you. Vehicles need more love then infantry to get them to go where you want them to go. The pathfinding for vehicles while improved still suffers from some of the past issues. Again like SBWWI, did you enjoy CC when you played in the past? The basic mechanics of the game have not changed.
I guess that'd be my deciding factor. Which mechanic do I enjoy more? TBS with micromanagement or RTS with less micromanagement. Which UI am I more comfortable with? The Tiller UI. That has not changed. Played one and basically you've played the UI for them all. CC UI has some cosmetic changes but is the same. Click select movement/attack and click on location.
^ Thanks Bison, that was a huge help!
I think I might pass on both, for now, then. I really liked SB:Soviet-Aghan War, but rarely played it because of the time commitment for each battle and my lack of familiarity with the conflict. While the second aspect is fixed by SB:WWI, the first is still a problem due to the need for fiddling with the units and micromanaging.
CC:A Bridge too Far was the first wargame I ever played. But I have always been crap at these games. So, I probably would still be crap at this one!
the hot fix patch works great Bison. its a simple exchange in exe. files so get to it man!
It's on the list of things to do. I need to get it done before Sunday for sure.
its a 30 second process with a 870kb download.
its now also on Steam, so old hands can redeem their Steam key
...and someone may finish his review, lol ;)