Hi guys,
My name is Peter Fisla and I'm developer behind the game called "Tigers on the Hunt" - the game is inspired by ASL board game. I have been developing the game for about 8+ years + 2 years of polishing and fixing bugs. This is my labor of love project, I plan to support it for many years to come. Assuming the game sells well, I plan to work on expansion (adding French and Italian nationalities). As a matter of fact, I plan to deliver the first release candidate of the base game this coming weekend. I handed off the draft manual to Slitherine few days ago. The target date is early Q1 2016, please feel free to ask me questions.
Here is the page to game on Slitherine website:
www.matrixgames.com/products/578/details/Tigers.on.the.Hunt
Cheers!
Nice to have you hear my friend :)
My fellow Grogs.I know BlackJaguar. Even played a few games with him. He has been working on this title for quite a few years. He has put his heart and soul into it. He is very passionate about it. Exciting things to come :)
Regards
Welcome...you're definitely in the right place.
Good luck to you, Peter! For your sake, I hope Matrix doesn't play their "Premium Game" card on you.
Just reviewed the five screenshots on the first post's link to Matrix. Nice, very nicely done.
welcome!
Saw the screenshots. Looking forward to this very much!
Peter, can you give us a bit of info as to how your game will be "like" ASL?
First of all, big thank you to Asid and everyone else for the warm welcome. It was Asid few months ago that pointed out to me this website and today he suggested I join the forum. I have been so busy for the past year working on the game (besides being busy of course with my day job) that I didn't really have the time to get myself involved here.
Now that the game is done, I can now breath little bit easier; I decided to drop by. I'm a wargamer like many of you here, 10 years ago I decided to make a game that I wanted to play...so let's see what happens :) Thank you kindly for your positive feedback about the project. It's really a labor of love, I didn't really start a project knowing that one day it will get published. What's really left is get the manual done by Slitherine and publish it.
Quote from: savatee on December 02, 2015, 07:35:16 PM
Peter, can you give us a bit of info as to how your game will be "like" ASL?
Well, the game is same scale, the structure of the turn is pretty similar. There is Fire, movement, rout, close combat segments. Here is a bit of info about the personnel counters:
Firepower has letter...A is the best H is the worst. + - represents Assault Fire. Fire Range can be seen in the game, it's a visual tool that you can enable. Morale is assigned to Stars sprite for Squad,HF and Crew. Stars for Leader represents Leadership bonus. In addition, each personnel counter has it's class (Example, German nationality has six different kinds of Squads/Half-Squads: Waffen SS (Elite), Assault Engineers (Elite), Fallschirmjäger (Elite), 1st Line, 2nd Line and Conscripts) In addition, each personnel unit also has experience.
Personnel units can also have the following states: Good Order, Broken, Broken+ (Demoralized), Pinned, Wounded (Leader only) and out of command.
Vehicles need start engines before they move, since AFVs in WW2 didn't really fire on the move...you might want to stop your AFV and then fire. Rotating turrets work the same way as in ASL, meaning you pay penalty as you rotate an AFV turret to face the enemy. Tank Destroyers like SutGs without turret pay even higher penalties if they have to turn to face an enemy target.
The graphics are board game like, I wanted to keep things simple yet elegant...
If the game sells reasonably well, I plan to add French and Italian nationalities so that early blitzkrieg AFV battles can be done (well you can already play early blitzkrieg with British vs Germans, but I don't have armor from that era). After that I would like to move the graphics engine to 3D something like Battle Academy 2 has.
The game editor is easy to use, so if you want to port some ASL scenarios into the game...it will be very easy. I spent about a year working on AI (the AI is version 2.0) and all needs to be done is set the AI on defense or Attack and AI does the rest.
Here is a list of vehicles in the game:
GERMAN:
------------------
PzKpfw IIA
PzKpfw IIF
PzKpfw IIL
PzKpfw 35t
PzKpfw 38(t) A
PzKpfw 38(t) E
PzKpfw IIID
PzKpfw IIIF
PzKpfw IIIG
PzKpfw IIIH
PzKpfw IIIJ
PzKpfw IIIL
PzKpfw IIIN
PzKpfw IVA
PzKpfw IVC
PzKpfw IVD
PzKpfw IVE
PzKpfw IVF1
PzKpfw IVF2
PzKpfw IVH
PzKpfw IVJ
PzKpfw VD
PzKpfw VG
PzKpfw VIE
PzKpfw VIE(L)
PzKpfw VIB
StuG IIIB
StuG IIIG
StuG IIIG (L)
StuH 42
StuH 42 (L)
StuPz IV
PzJg Tiger
Marder I
Marder III(t) M
PzJg III/IV
JgdPz 38(t)
JgdPz IV
JgdPz IV(L)
StuIG 33B
JgdPz IV/70
JgdPz V
JgdPz VI
SPW 250/1
SPW 250/sMG
SPW 250/7
SPW 250/8
SPW 250/9
SPW 250/10
SPW 251/1
SPW 251/sMG
SPW 251/2
SPW 251/9
SPW 251/10
SPW 251/22
PSW 222
PSW 222 (L)
PSW 231
PSW 231
PSW 232
PSW 233
PSW 234/1
PSW 234/2
PSW 234/3
PSW 234/4
sIG II
sIG 38(t)M
PzA II
PzA III/IV
RUSSIAN:
---------------
T-60 M40
T-60 M42
T-70
T-26 M33
T-26S M37/39
BT-5 M34
BT-7 M37
BT-7A
T-34 M40
T-34 M41
T-34 M43
T-43
T-34/85
M4/76(a)
T-44
KV-1 M39/40
KV-1E
KV-1 M41
KV-1 M42
KV-2
KV-1S
KV-85
IS-2
IS-2m
IS-3
SU-76M
SU-76i
SU-122
SU-152
ISU-122
ISU-152
SU-85
SU-100
SU-57(a)
BA-6
AMERICAN:
-------------------
M3A1
M5A1
M24
M4
M4A1
M4A2
M4A2 (L)
M4A3
M4A3(75)W
M4A3E2
M4A3E2 (L)
M4A1(76)W
M4A3(76)W
M4(105)
M4A3(105)
M26
M10 GMC
M18 GMC
M36 GMC
M36B1 GMC
M3A1
M3(MMG)
M3(HMG)
M4A1 MC
M21 MC
M3 GMC
M8
M8 HMC
M7 HMC
BRITISH:
---------------
Stuart V
Sherman II
Sherman III
Sherman V
Sherman IIA
Sherman IIC
Sherman VC
Sherman IB
Centaur IV
Cromwell IV
Cromwell VI
Cromwell VII
Cromwell VIII
Challenger
Comet
Valentine VIII
Valentine XI
Churchill V
An AFV can have the following states:
• Good Order (also means unit is in command); an AFV unit in good order state is fully functioning on the battlefield.
• Out of command, if an AFV unit fails its command check at the beginning of Fire Segment it will be marked as out of command. An AFV unit marked with Out of Command Marker can conduct only defensive fire if an enemy unit moves adjacent to it.
• Stunned, an AFV exposed Crew fails its morale check due to enemy fire. A Stunned AFV may not fire or move for the remainder of the turn. The AFV Crew will recover from Stunned State in the next turn in Administrative Segment; however the AFV Crew morale will never fully recover for the rest of the scenario.
• STUNNED, indicates that an AFV Crew got Stunned again. STUNNED AFV is now out of action for the rest of the scenario.
• Shocked, result of enemy fire. An AFV unit will try to recover from shocked state in Administrative Segment. Shocked AFV unit may not fire or move.
• Unconfirmed Kill, an AFV unit that fails to recover from Shocked State in Administrative Segment is now out of action for the rest of the scenario.
• Bogged, occurs when an AFV unit gets stuck in an AFV unsafe move terrain. See Appendix C Terrain chart for details.
• Mired, occurs when a bogged AFV unit fails bog removal check.
• Immobilized, an AFV unit either lost a track or wheels got damaged either due to enemy fire or a mired AFV unit failed its bog removal check.
Please see the attachment which shows all the German Squads/Half-Squads and Leaders in the game, there is also Crew type of personnel unit bit it is not shown on the example.
Some screens
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2F1B053DCEE7954A20ACD0AEDBB14944B0.jpg&hash=cc7b875a3b35fe8b3a13b3eb00d1dfe579c448e2)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2FFC697DF5E32D419BAB4DB57EAFDE33A7.jpg&hash=08df827cb1af9b0eee69d3468cf78e8770b099ce)
Welcome aboard Peter :)
I have enjoyed beta testing your project :D
Ed
aka Richie61
Quote from: Richie61 on December 02, 2015, 08:00:31 PM
Welcome aboard Peter :)
I have enjoyed beta testing your project :D
Ed
aka Richie61
Thank you for your kind words Richie61 :)
The artist behind all the graphics art in game is Steve Ford. Steve worked on quite a few games from SSG, like The Ardennes Offensive etc...
[Claps hands whilst mincing about the room in a most-unmanly-like fashion]
Oooo...another game to look forward to!
'tis a wonderful time to be grogish!
I like your Avatar, Dammit Carl! :)
Looking good BlackJag. Like Kate Upton carrying a six pack and a plate of wings. Please keep us posted on development. O0
Quote from: Asid on December 02, 2015, 07:47:31 PM
Some screens
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2F1B053DCEE7954A20ACD0AEDBB14944B0.jpg&hash=cc7b875a3b35fe8b3a13b3eb00d1dfe579c448e2)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2FFC697DF5E32D419BAB4DB57EAFDE33A7.jpg&hash=08df827cb1af9b0eee69d3468cf78e8770b099ce)
Oh - I am really liking the look of this - the new screenies are much better than the earlier ones - one question though - I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?
I really like when the developers stop by and get engaged with the community....scores a lot of points and demonstrates their willingness to discuss the game and get feedback...good luck.
It is an excellent game, but just so you understand it is very groggy.
it has been a pleasure testing it.
Quote from: magnus on December 03, 2015, 06:14:52 AMIt is an excellent game, but just so you understand it is very groggy.
that's not really a problem for this crowd :)
Quote from: Sir Slash on December 02, 2015, 11:19:34 PM
Looking good BlackJag. Like Kate Upton carrying a six pack and a plate of wings. Please keep us posted on development. O0
Oh man, that's pure wargamer's poetry ;)
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
Quote from: Asid on December 02, 2015, 07:47:31 PM
Some screens
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2F1B053DCEE7954A20ACD0AEDBB14944B0.jpg&hash=cc7b875a3b35fe8b3a13b3eb00d1dfe579c448e2)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2FFC697DF5E32D419BAB4DB57EAFDE33A7.jpg&hash=08df827cb1af9b0eee69d3468cf78e8770b099ce)
Oh - I am really liking the look of this - the new screenies are much better than the earlier ones - one question though - I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?
?? Bump
I shouldn't have used the term groggy.
What I was trying to say is it is just a straight up port of a wargame based on ASL and put on the computer.
It has no bells and whistles or 3d tanks etc..
I am surprised at times of how many times some wargamers have posted in places, even here, that games like this shouldn't be published in 2015.
To someone who was used to sitting in front of a table with a rule book in their lap, this is meat and potatoes.
If someone was expecting another Lock and Loads "Heroes of Stalingrad" they would be mistaken. There nothing wrong with HOS and I own it, it is just very gamey to me.
Thanks magnus!
I understand that not everyone will enjoy the game, I love ASL and I wanted to play something like that on my computer. So in January of 2006 I have decided to do it myself. Tigers on the Hunt is a niche product, I built it for the hard core wargamers who love tactical boardgames. I remember when I first came across ASL (October 2005), I bought the ASL Starter Kit 1 and I told myself, let's see what the fuss is all about. I wasn't impressed with the counters, but once I sit down and those bullets started flying, man... I totally forgot all about the counter art. I now own about $2500 of ASL material (core models, historical modules like Red Barricades or Valor of the Guards, Tarawa...etc) So the game focuses on the gameplay rather than on fancy 3D graphics. There is a lot of weapon systems built into the game, Eastern Front can be played from 1941 - 45, or the Western Front 43-45 and even a bit of late Afrika battles or Mediterranean....all in one box. I will be supporting the game for a long time to come. Expansion will be coming...I'm already also learning about doing 3D graphics engine but that will take time (give it a kind of miniatures look). I'm a one man development team that has passion for wargames in my spare time (after my day job) and I want to share my passion with the rest of the world...nothing more nothing less.
The editor is easy to use, you want to play say "The Guards Counterattack" from ASL ? You simply create the map, put all the units on the map, setup VPOs with click of a button, set AI side to attack or hold and you can play - no AI scripting required.
Long time friend of mine Jorgen Holmquist, who is the scenario designer is currently working on tutorial video how to play the game as well as how to create scenarios.
Cheers!
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 01:58:45 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
Quote from: Asid on December 02, 2015, 07:47:31 PM
Some screens
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2F1B053DCEE7954A20ACD0AEDBB14944B0.jpg&hash=cc7b875a3b35fe8b3a13b3eb00d1dfe579c448e2)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Fforums%2Fupfiles%2F4418%2FFC697DF5E32D419BAB4DB57EAFDE33A7.jpg&hash=08df827cb1af9b0eee69d3468cf78e8770b099ce)
Oh - I am really liking the look of this - the new screenies are much better than the earlier ones - one question though - I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?
?? Bump
OK BJ - that's twice you have been here and posted a response to another question and not answered mine - so I am going to presume their absence in the screenshots is because there aren't any ?
Hi Zulu1966,
Sorry I missed your message. "I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?" Correct, the game engine currently doesn't support walls/fences/hedges. Perhaps in the future...there is so much more stuff to do, yet so little time. If could work on the game 10 hours a day without day job than anything is possible, I just need to win lottery :)
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 07:47:37 PM
Hi Zulu1966,
Sorry I missed your message. "I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?" Correct, the game engine currently doesn't support walls/fences/hedges. Perhaps in the future...there is so much more stuff to do, yet so little time. If could work on the game 10 hours a day without day job than anything is possible, I just need to win lottery :)
OK no problem BJ. I admire the fact you have created something I know the kind of effort it takes - especially with a day job.
Must admit - no hexside features is a pretty big hole for me. No Bocage I guess ? Will still likely buy day one though.
If I won the lottery - I would pay someone else to write the game though.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 07:47:37 PM
Hi Zulu1966,
Sorry I missed your message. "I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?" Correct, the game engine currently doesn't support walls/fences/hedges. Perhaps in the future...there is so much more stuff to do, yet so little time. If could work on the game 10 hours a day without day job than anything is possible, I just need to win lottery :)
OK no problem BJ. I admire the fact you have created something I know the kind of effort it takes - especially with a day job.
Must admit - no hexside features is a pretty big hole for me. No Bocage I guess ? Will still likely buy day one though.
If I won the lottery - I would pay someone else to write the game though.
Yes correct, no bocage as well. When you think about it that there are 4 nationalities, there is a lot of content. However it's really hard to put everything in the game with the time that I have. I spent a lot of time working on the AI, I preferred to work on that then adding every single terrain feature into the game. I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
...are there multistory buildings then?
I am looking forward to your game anyway :)
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 07:47:37 PM
Hi Zulu1966,
Sorry I missed your message. "I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?" Correct, the game engine currently doesn't support walls/fences/hedges. Perhaps in the future...there is so much more stuff to do, yet so little time. If could work on the game 10 hours a day without day job than anything is possible, I just need to win lottery :)
OK no problem BJ. I admire the fact you have created something I know the kind of effort it takes - especially with a day job.
Must admit - no hexside features is a pretty big hole for me. No Bocage I guess ? Will still likely buy day one though.
If I won the lottery - I would pay someone else to write the game though.
Yes correct, no bocage as well. When you think about it that there are 4 nationalities, there is a lot of content. However it's really hard to put everything in the game with the time that I have. I spent a lot of time working on the AI, I preferred to work on that then adding every single terrain feature into the game. I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
Would be good to add them when you can. They would add a lot IMHO to terrain. Good to hear about the elevations - as I say - you will get nothing from me but admiration at what you have achieved already.
Quote from: MikeGER on December 04, 2015, 03:24:06 AM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
...are there multistory buildings then?
I am looking forward to your game anyway :)
unfortunately no because it is hard to do the interface that will handle units in multiple locations in the same hex...this is something that is on my to do list once I go 3D.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 04, 2015, 05:50:41 AM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
Quote from: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 07:47:37 PM
Hi Zulu1966,
Sorry I missed your message. "I cant see any hexside features in the maps ? Walls, fences etc ?" Correct, the game engine currently doesn't support walls/fences/hedges. Perhaps in the future...there is so much more stuff to do, yet so little time. If could work on the game 10 hours a day without day job than anything is possible, I just need to win lottery :)
OK no problem BJ. I admire the fact you have created something I know the kind of effort it takes - especially with a day job.
Must admit - no hexside features is a pretty big hole for me. No Bocage I guess ? Will still likely buy day one though.
If I won the lottery - I would pay someone else to write the game though.
Yes correct, no bocage as well. When you think about it that there are 4 nationalities, there is a lot of content. However it's really hard to put everything in the game with the time that I have. I spent a lot of time working on the AI, I preferred to work on that then adding every single terrain feature into the game. I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
Would be good to add them when you can. They would add a lot IMHO to terrain. Good to hear about the elevations - as I say - you will get nothing from me but admiration at what you have achieved already.
Thanks, well if I get good enough sales there will be more coming :)
OK, I'm convinced Pete. I'll get it as soon as it comes out.
Same here. Another day one purchaser.
I also wanted to let you know guys that the features development has stopped about year and a half ago. Since then I have been doing testing and overall polishing. Of course when beta test program started in June I have fixed bugs as well as accommodated feedback from beta testers and added further helpful features into the game to make it easier for the users to play the game. This means that the game is as of now in polished state, if any bugs will surface I will promptly address them :)
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 04, 2015, 02:21:33 PM
I also wanted to let you know guys that the features development has stopped about year and a half ago. Since then I have been doing testing and overall polishing. Of course when beta test program started in June I have fixed bugs as well as accommodated feedback from beta testers and added further helpful features into the game to make it easier for the users to play the game. This means that the game is as of now in polished state, if any bugs will surface I will promptly address them :)
Looking forward to the release then ....
Aar published for those interested....
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3982704
Here is a game turn sequence of play breakdown:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3983178
Very Squad Leader-ish
Tigers on the Hunt reveals its Cover Art!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.matrixgames.com%2Famazon%2FArt%2FTigers%2520on%2520the%2520Hunt%2F_Fb-post.jpg&hash=d2fd94ac4742ce1b8d8944c7279b5d9957d81fbd)
A fearsome Panzerkampfwagen VI – also known as the Tiger I – stands alone, its tracks in the mud, while its commander watches, ready to engage the enemy!
Schweeeeet!
Epic cover art!
You're getting me HOT!!!
BlackJaguar thanks for doing this!
As an ASL initiate myself (thanks to GJK) I am where you once were; amazed at how detailed this game is despite its 'simple looks'.
I would applaud an electronic version or port of the ASL system.
Have you considered contacting MMP to see wether you could perhaps make it an official product. It would provide a great training or learning tool if it would be a true ASL port.
Actual game graphics not even close to that though. >:D
Quote from: jomni on December 17, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
Actual game graphics not even close to that though. >:D
<de-cloak mode on>
The graphics for ToTH can be changed rather easily. In fact, there's already mods from beta testers (myself included) that use the counters from VASL. You could also use actual scans of the ASL countersheets if you chose. Terrain can be modded as well - you can use the actual building artwork from the ASL mapboards if you need.
<de-cloak mode off>
Quote from: GJK on December 18, 2015, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: jomni on December 17, 2015, 05:19:42 PM
Actual game graphics not even close to that though. >:D
<de-cloak mode on>
The graphics for ToTH can be changed rather easily. In fact, there's already mods from beta testers (myself included) that use the counters from VASL. You could also use actual scans of the ASL countersheets if you chose. Terrain can be modded as well - you can use the actual building artwork from the ASL mapboards if you need.
<de-cloak mode off>
Correct ;) all the game graphics are in one PNG file (uses alpha transparency) very easy to mod, say for example in Photoshop. Just the size of each sprite cannot be changed.
wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)
If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.
Quote from: gameleaper on December 19, 2015, 02:13:40 PM
wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)
If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.
devs = 1 developer only = Me :)
Expected release date is early February 2016
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 19, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on December 19, 2015, 02:13:40 PM
wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)
If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.
devs = 1 developer only = Me :)
Expected release date is early February 2016
thanks B, that's impressive, looking forward to day 1 purchase
I had high hopes that LnL: Heroes of Stalingrad would be something great, but I could never get into it. I always felt like I was fighting the game mechanics rather than the scenario battle itself. The screen shots of Tiger on the Hunt remind me of that game so I'm hoping it won't have the same issues. So it's with guarded optimism that I await its release.
Manual CompletedFrom the dev:QuoteAs of this morning I signed off on the manual design as well as submitted second release candidate to matrix games, we are getting really close to release date ;) The manual was the last major task on my to do list...after 10 years and one month of hard work, finally!!!
Hey, my money is waiting. Let's go!
Quote from: Rayfer on December 19, 2015, 09:31:31 PM
I had high hopes that LnL: Heroes of Stalingrad would be something great, but I could never get into it. I always felt like I was fighting the game mechanics rather than the scenario battle itself. The screen shots of Tiger on the Hunt remind me of that game so I'm hoping it won't have the same issues. So it's with guarded optimism that I await its release.
Same here. I fail at HoS. I employ conventional tactics but the game mechanics just seems off.
It parallels the legendary Advanced Squad Leader rules.
Tigers on the Hunt new Screenshots revealed!
Today developer Siliconsoft Systems is proud to reveal a new set of screenshots, showing a lot of action in multiple scenarios including the attack on France on 1940, the Eastern Front and the last defence of Berlin!
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You're making me HOT!
Ok, I'm going to do something I don't do very often, in the hopes of offering some constructive feedback.
As someone that spends probably 80%+ of his gaming time playing JTS titles or similar games, I don't feel like I'm much of a graphics whore. I have to say though that the look of this game really puts me off. It looks like something with 16-bit graphics. I'm concerned that while there may be an initial rush of enthusiasm since it's ASL-based, over the long term the look and the lack of features like multi-story buildings and no hex-side terrain are really going to handicap this as a system.
Again, I'm someone that happily plays the old Tiller Campaign Series games, but every time I see screenshots of this my initial reaction isn't to get excited, but to wait and see if it gets game play raves. I really would like this to be a good game and something I want to buy, but I'm wary based on the look.
Two thoughts, both of which stun me as I write them as this is the sort of a game that, like Doug, I should be purchasing day one...
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
2: Am I correct that this is HotSeat MP only? I am very unlikely to purchase any game these days that lacks at least a PBEM system -- as much as I find PBEM++ tedious. Tiller and CM were both one-man shops (OK, CM was sorta two-man from a programming perspective) and both managed robust MP several generations ago. As for the notion that the game's design does not permit this, Tiller's Battlefront series had a system that made MP very difficult. He changed the system.
Please understand, I do wish this effort the very best, it's the cruelty of high expectations. I don't expect much from a Total War and am pleasantly surprised when it delivers. Here it was the opposite...
The graphics have already been modded by some of the beta testers. If you look through the posts on Matrix you will see some of the work that has been done.
Cyrano, I agree with you on the counters. The only problem is that the few tactical games I have been involved with were swamped by requests to have 3D tanks and men. I never understood it myself.
The developer has said that he will continue to work on the game. The multi-story coding problem has been mentioned by a lot of game designers.
The multi-story thing bugs me a little. In any semi-urban area, that height advantage can be a difference maker. I always remember BFC trying to rationalize the lack of enterable buildings in Theater of War. It kind of reminds me of that.
With that said, once I am over the nostalgia rush of it looking like ASL. I remember why games like Steel Panthers turned me off with the turn-based gaminess with weird fire and movement happenings.
This game REALLY needs a demo
Quote from: Redirected on January 09, 2016, 07:24:41 PM
This game REALLY needs a demo
short before the release Slitherine often likes to show a 1 hour
introduction with playthrouh on their Twitch channel
I hope this will be the case with TotH too
(the broadcast stays accessible as a replay at Twitch for some time, and a day or two later usually show up at YT too for those who miss the live feed)
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
....
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
....
This must be yer Jack and Schnapps talking here. What squad level board game uses NATO icons? None that I can think of. So why would you expect a squad level PC game that's based on a board game to have NATO icons? ???
I do agree with Doug a bit on the look of the graphics but the only thing that really gets to me is the non-top down, non-rotating vehicles.....
I'll still probably pick this up in the first week though... depending on the price....
Quote from: Barthheart on January 10, 2016, 07:04:22 AM
I do agree with Doug a bit on the look of the graphics but the only thing that really gets to me is the non-top down, non-rotating vehicles.....
I'll still probably pick this up in the first week though... depending on the price....
Top down vehicles, even if they didn't rotate their turrets, would be an improvement. I see on the Matrix forums where Ritchie61 has done some nice modding, but the mod depends on ASL graphics. That's cool if it's your choice to make the game look like ASL, but I sure with the game had it's own distinctive look beyond the really unfortunate graphics it has.
I did a pre release SL/ ASL mod. It's really easy to make mods and people with more skills than I can do lots of different images. I did these since the game was inspired by ASL and it reminds me of pushing
counters around my Squad Leader boards in 1979 ;D
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Ritchie's ASL mod alone tempts me.
You're making me HOTTER!!!
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
Two thoughts, both of which stun me as I write them as this is the sort of a game that, like Doug, I should be purchasing day one...
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
Hi Cyrano,
You realise there are three choices of counter sets in Panzer battles, switchable on the fly and can be configured differently at each zoom level?? Check under the Settings menu, because there is a hint of Nato there...!!!
David
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Quote from: Barthheart on January 10, 2016, 07:04:22 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
....
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
....
This must be yer Jack and Schnapps talking here. What squad level board game uses NATO icons? None that I can think of. So why would you expect a squad level PC game that's based on a board game to have NATO icons? ???
I do agree with Doug a bit on the look of the graphics but the only thing that really gets to me is the non-top down, non-rotating vehicles.....
I'll still probably pick this up in the first week though... depending on the price....
Agree with this. Personally think Nato icons would be out of place at this scale. I don't really have an issue with the graphics - I think they look ok. Top down would only interest me if they reflected the actual facing of the vehicle or weapon as Barthheart says.
A Bigger stopper for me is the lack of hexside terrain and multi storey buildings - but prepared to wait and see whether that abstraction takes away from the game too much.
When it comes to tactical combat my biggest hurdle is there has to be a reason I would play it over combat mission - which as far as immersion, tactical fidelity etc is in a league of its own.
Even so - this may be one of those buys to fund future development games.
Quote from: Strela on January 11, 2016, 01:22:56 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
Two thoughts, both of which stun me as I write them as this is the sort of a game that, like Doug, I should be purchasing day one...
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
Hi Cyrano,
You realise there are three choices of counter sets in Panzer battles, switchable on the fly and can be configured differently at each zoom level?? Check under the Settings menu, because there is a hint of Nato there...!!!
David
Panzer Battles is not squad-level. A unit is a platoon.
Nevertheless, here are the
Squad Battles NATO symbols. Actually symbols for sections and squads. Doesn't really do anything fancy. I prefer the portraits.
Hi Jomni,
I wasn't so much commenting on Panzer Battles being squad level, but rather ensuring Cyrano knows there are options to the graphics displayed in game. He specifically called out the portraits in Normandy as not being to his liking and I wanted to handle that.
I have my own thread and don't want to hijack this one! ;)
David
Quote from: Barthheart on January 10, 2016, 07:04:22 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
....
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
....
This must be yer Jack and Schnapps talking here. What squad level board game uses NATO icons? None that I can think of. So why would you expect a squad level PC game that's based on a board game to have NATO icons? ???
Grunt SPI
Search and Destroy SPI
Tobruk Avalon Hill
Air Cav West End
Air Cav is the only one since Squad Leader that I can think of. Doesn't mean NATO icons are bad as much as it means everyone wants to be like Squad Leader. ;)
Quote from: Bardolph on January 11, 2016, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: Barthheart on January 10, 2016, 07:04:22 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on January 09, 2016, 02:49:07 PM
....
1: I don't understand why you've bothered to try and do graphic counters. They're unnecessary in a game of this type -- I don't like them at ALL in Tiller's Panzer Battles -- and I've not seen a hint of NATO. Frankly, I've come to find graphic counter design on the PC to be chimerical, but that's another conversation.
....
This must be yer Jack and Schnapps talking here. What squad level board game uses NATO icons? None that I can think of. So why would you expect a squad level PC game that's based on a board game to have NATO icons? ???
Grunt SPI
Search and Destroy SPI
Tobruk Avalon Hill
Air Cav West End
Air Cav is the only one since Squad Leader that I can think of. Doesn't mean NATO icons are bad as much as it means everyone wants to be like Squad Leader. ;)
Thanks for that. I've never played nor seen any of those..... will have to look them up.
I love you guys so awfully much...in a completely manly, oh Lord NOW we're drunk kind of way...
@Barth: I wasn't the one singing the praises of the Red Dragon or whatever the Hell else they called that thing. Not saying I'm certain it was you, but it certainly wasn't me. Others have already heaped opprobrium on your permafrosted head re: no NATO symbols in squad level games.
@Strela: Yep, those NATO counters are the only way I can play this game I have come to love so very much. I was only remarking that for me at least the other stuff was wasted effort. In this regard one need only see the very interesting, to me at least, debate over at the CS:ME threads re: 2D versus 3D units.
...and the lack of MP remains difficult for me to comprehend.
Quote from: Redirected on January 09, 2016, 07:24:41 PM
This game REALLY needs a demo
Sorry there won't be a demo as I don't have the time to create one, however the scenario designer is right now working on a few tutorial videos that will explain the game functionality as well as sample gameplay. The videos should be available soon...if someone plays ASL, they should feel right at home pretty quick.
Tutorial VideoIn this first Tutorial you will discover the basics of infantry movement and fire, featuring assaults with Officers charging you main attack, flamethrowers units, combat engineers with satchel charges, line of fire and more!
Published on 25 Jan 2016Welcome to the first video tutorial of Tigers on the Hunt!
Get more information about the game from its official product page: http://bit.ly/1KzbhfR
Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC, and its goal is to simulate with a level of realism barely seen before the tactical combat between ground units during the Second World Conflict.
It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player's maneuvers. Players can enjoy massive battles across up to 12 connected geomorphic maps with over 200 Infantry units, 100 Support Weapons, 100 Ordnance pieces and 50 Vehicles per side.
Ok video, but the click to select a hex and then clicking again to select which unit in the hex is extremely cluncky in my book. A lot of mouse movement just to do a basic thing in the game... And the mortar is even more clunky, you have to move the mouse again and do a third click.
A better way could be that everything in the hex is per default selected, or popup a menu where you mouse pointer is, so that you don't have to move it around. Just my observations... I my world the panzer campaign games from hps has the same problem, way to much cliking to do simple tasks...
Ideally for unit selection, you want to be able to do it, within the space of the hex you're working with. Using combinations of keys and clicks or with more sophisticated programming/UI development with pop-ups/radials etc. Having to move the mouse from the hex you're currently processing and into a hierarchical listbox, selecting nodes, and Ctrl+selecting nodes, takes you away from the action mentally, but forces you to move the mouse off the hex and map you're interested in. Then you have to pull the mouse back up to the associated Hex you want to fire at. That is a lot of distractive mouse busy work, for what is essentially calling in a fire operation.
Presumably there is a stacking limit in a hex? If you have 3 or more units and you want them to fire on different targets, the amount of up and down, and fiddly picking a textual name out of a node list to return to the map to locate the target Hex is considerable. There has to be an easier way ergonomically. How about left clicking on the Hex repeatedly cycles through the units and brings the one you're highlighting to the top? The one at the top is the one you will fire with? As long as there is a stacking limit that isn't silly numbers this would be more acceptable from a UI point of view.
what supprised me was how much like my infantry game mecanics are, so it suggests to me that TotH is done because of the programming problem to solve, My game also moves one hex at a time, it also has to result log window, it also left click hex then bottom left select what chits to fire,My game is also phased, the big diff between my game seems I can select what chits in a hex to fire at, NOT just fire at the whole hex, of course I'm not suggesting my game is anything near as good as TotH, my point is both games have similar control. I think vassal does it correctly.
It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.
There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.
There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.
I'm still not sure it's my cup of tea, but I can tell there's been a lot of hard work on the game. I also think you're going to see a lot of success with it just because it is the nearest thing to computer ASL available. It's obvious from the feedback here and at Matrix that there are a lot of people that want that.
The UI and graphics remind me of the SSG games of a decade or more ago. Those games are certainly playable even today. Someone sufficiently interested in the period and the game system is going to be very willing to overlook UI flaws to play. I suspect this will do well once released.
Quote from: panzerde on January 26, 2016, 06:18:56 PM
I'm still not sure it's my cup of tea, but I can tell there's been a lot of hard work on the game. I also think you're going to see a lot of success with it just because it is the nearest thing to computer ASL available. It's obvious from the feedback here and at Matrix that there are a lot of people that want that.
I can completely understand that, I'm not expecting everyone to like the game. That is something very difficult to do, so instead I wrote a game that I wanted to play and I'm just sharing it with the world....as simple as that, nothing more and nothing less. One thing is certain, I put my heart and soul into the game to make sure the game was polished from functionality perspective (including AI) and relatively bug free.
Quote from: panzerde on January 26, 2016, 06:18:56 PM
The UI and graphics remind me of the SSG games of a decade or more ago. Those games are certainly playable even today. Someone sufficiently interested in the period and the game system is going to be very willing to overlook UI flaws to play. I suspect this will do well once released.
I think, once people play with the interface for a bit they will get used to it very quickly...based on my experience with private test group over the years as well as beta testers. I'm of course aware that not every one will like it, that's a given :)
I think this game has a ton of potential. Guys, we should really support this game, in my opinion. I will be buying on Day One. The tutorial video was very interesting. As for the UI, I don't see any problem with a couple of clicks more. This game has a future and I congratulate the team for this extraordinary effort.
Also, isn't this game mod friendly? That will only help.
This has been a labour of love for the developer, BlackJaguar, endeavours like this deserve some support. O0
Regards
I am on the beta team and at first I disliked the UI and clicking this or that. But after a very short time I was doing it without thinking about what to do. That is huge for me. Not proud of it, but I am the type of person that opens a game and starts playing it without reading the manual. After a few games it was like pushing AH counters around in the summer of 1977 :D
Beta wise, Peter's first build that we received was good. I didn't have a single crash or lockup the whole time. There were bugs, but they were small and Peter fixed them in a day most times. We didn't have any bugs that lasted long or stopped testing. I was very impressed with this beta testing :)
BJ does it have Hotseat? I love these sort of games, you cant do no wrong with it!
Quote from: gameleaper on January 26, 2016, 11:45:11 PM
BJ does it have Hotseat? I love these sort of games, you cant do no wrong with it!
Yes
thx BJ, hotseat is important to me as I can play both sides with equal skill, thanks for adding hotseat
Quote from: gameleaper on January 27, 2016, 10:33:46 PM
thx BJ, hotseat is important to me as I can play both sides with equal skill, thanks for adding hotseat
Yep. Single most important thing thing for me. Will be a definite buy for me, even if only to support the effort that's gone into it and what the future might bring. It's not an RTS so a couple of clicks here and there doesn't phase me.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on January 27, 2016, 10:49:32 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on January 27, 2016, 10:33:46 PM
thx BJ, hotseat is important to me as I can play both sides with equal skill, thanks for adding hotseat
Yep. Single most important thing thing for me. Will be a definite buy for me, even if only to support the effort that's gone into it and what the future might bring. It's not an RTS so a couple of clicks here and there doesn't phase me.
Good point Zulu....a few clicks here and there in a turn based game is far better than the endless clicks many rts games require.
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 19, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on December 19, 2015, 02:13:40 PM
wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)
If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.
devs = 1 developer only = Me :)
Expected release date is early February 2016
its early feb now :)
Quote from: gameleaper on February 04, 2016, 05:59:14 AM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 19, 2015, 05:12:26 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on December 19, 2015, 02:13:40 PM
wow! I saw this game a while back, but I didn't check it out as I should of, its ASL :) my god someone actualy went and made it, it seemed impossible but its real, the devs say they sent a candidate release on the 1st of dec to slitherine( its on the matrix forums in the beta test stuff)
If this got released over Christmas that would just be a perfect day.
devs = 1 developer only = Me :)
Expected release date is early February 2016
its early feb now :)
Sorry I don't have an exact date...all I know is February :)
This game HAS to offer more than the other tac games out there. If it is going for the ASL feel then it HAS to be as detailed and as indepth as that's what makes ASL. If it isn't then it will just be an average tac wargame that really offers nothing new. I really think if your going for these type of graphics then the gameplay has to be superb otherwise it will get it from all sides once released.
So fingers crossed this does have all that detail ASL offers..though I do get worried when you here things like hedges and walls aren't in the game.
Now if at the moment it doesn't have loads of detail then I really think release should be put back to make sure it really does have everything an ASL player would want and offer the PC wargamer something far more indepth and detaile dover what's gone before. Otherwise what is the point?
Sorry if his sounds negative. I just wnat to see a tactical game offering the things others haven't done and not one that offers the same or less even.
I am not trying to stir the pot, but here goes.
This is not ASL ported to the computer.
This is one mans game built and somewhat based on ASL and probably Tobruk and a few other board games thrown in.
The purists will have to bite the bullet and either like the game for itself or not like it because it is not 100% ASL.
This is also not a gaming company or even a few gents, it is one man's vision of a tactical game.
I think the game has plenty to stand on it's own without even mentioning ASL.
Quote from: Rayfer on December 19, 2015, 09:31:31 PM
I had high hopes that LnL: Heroes of Stalingrad would be something great, but I could never get into it. I always felt like I was fighting the game mechanics rather than the scenario battle itself. The screen shots of Tiger on the Hunt remind me of that game so I'm hoping it won't have the same issues. So it's with guarded optimism that I await its release.
I pretty much felt the same about LnL: HoS. Not really my cup of tea in the end. My concern with TotH is how it will compare with the likes of John Tiller's Squad Battles series? Graphically it looks very nice, but Squad Battles contains a wealth of detail, which may or may not be present with TotH. To me that looks like a main competitor to BJ's game (Hi BJ, nice to see you on the forum). If BJ is familiar with the SB system, it will be good to know how he thinks his game rivals Squad Battles.
I have played both a games (SB and TotH) and other than being a squad based combat game, they are different. I love both games :D
Course TotH has all the same content that SB has if you buy Eagles Strike, Advance of the Reich and Red Victory for roughly $120 for these 3 JT titles ;)
Quote from: Richie61 on February 04, 2016, 10:18:29 PM
I have played both a games (SB and TotH) and other than being a squad based combat game, they are different. I love both games :D
Course TotH has all the same content that SB has if you buy Eagles Strike, Advance of the Reich and Red Victory for roughly $120 for these 3 JT titles ;)
Right, you the man Rtchie61!!! ;)
Initially a little hyped with this game, but after reading the AAR posted on the Matrix forum I am now meh about the whole thing. I agree with TacticalWargames, if you are not going to bring something new to the table then what's the hook? For me it is reminiscent of SL/COI, and perhaps it is an IP issue, but there seems to be so much not there to make this a compelling game.
There are no walls, no multi story buildings, no concealment, instant spotting etc. What other tactical intricacies are missing that are not evident yet? From a gameplay point of view why no multiplayer? Really? That's a true deal breaker for me. It seems there is no campaign either. For a positive, the AAR does show well fire, suppression and movement. Not sure about close combat, typically over emphasized in board games.
I want to be constructive in criticism but looking at the playing field this seems a little thin. 15 years ago it probably would have been a smash hit, today not so sure. Without a demo to try and likely with Matrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.
This broaches a topic of constant fascination to me, viz.: whether PC games Jedi-mind-trick board wargamers into thinking they're less complex than they are.
While nothing compares to the perverse (yes, I said it) granular complexity of ASL, which I take to be a form of ludatory masochism, surely any of the Tiller SB games, CoH, and LnL's title can rival the complexity of the original SL, Band of Brothers, Combat Commander, &c.? But, because so much of the rule reading, chart-looking, and dice rolling is under the hood, we convince ourselves that it's less genuine, less groggy.
Lacking MP as this game does, it's a non-starter for me, but I think there's this boardgame bogeyman lurking in many of our booze-addled minds that unfairly disadvantages this offering in other ways.
Lets put everything on a level field and say that "TacticalWargames" was a beta tester and quit early into the testing. ;) Fair is fair. I read his post as sounding like he has no idea what is in it and how it plays. Either it wasn't his cup of tea or he was too busy in real life to continue, but he knows the basic idea of TotH.
I was a beta tester. :) I asked Peter about lots of things about TotH during testing. :knuppel2:
You can ask Peter this one. Since before I was picked for beta testing, I was doing PM's to Peter about the game and I have been asking him about PBEM. He explained it to me and how the files would need to be passed between players ten fold. If a unit see another unit, then the game pauses to offer OP fire every time. If you have 20 units in a game and you are moving them, you could get 20 PLUS pauses (files sent one way) just for OP fire/ spotting. It the same as a board game. These files are not "turns" like in Squad Battles.
A game turn is divided into two parts, and each part is comprised of 8 segments. There are segments are done by both the "attacker" as well as the "defender". Some segments are performed by the "attacker" only and some by "defender" only.
I tried a "test" of PBEM like Sqaud Battles and sent files to myself. It was painful with LOTS of files and swapping and sending files to my e-mail. He was right. This isn't like turns in Combat Mission, Panzer Commander or Squad Battles.
Yeah, I want MP too. Maybe Matrix server play can happen someday. I hope so.
I too would like to see more features. But every game is missing this or that. I have
1135 PBEM Squad Battles games under my belt. Is Squad Battles correct and have everything? No.
God view? You can click a hex to see if the other side can see the hex and thus let you move there without being seen or be in LOS. No multi story buildings. Vehicle armor is based on two data numbers
and use a % of the front armor (which isn't correct) to calculate side/ rear/ top armor data. Gun isn't based on real data.
Every game has Pro's and Con's. Everyone.
Peter has been VERY upfront with what TotH does or doesn't do. No smoke and mirrors. It's a yes or no. If it's a "no", he will tell you why. It's not a blanket "no" and move on.As for this:
QuoteMatrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.
I have every HPS/ JT Squad Battles games, some PzC, Panzer Battles and if I didn't find them "used", I paid $39.99 every time. You pay $39.99 for SB Vietnam today for a game released in 2001. ;)
At the end of the day, we play games for the fun or enjoyment. :)
Quote from: Cyrano on February 05, 2016, 10:01:40 AM
This broaches a topic of constant fascination to me, viz.: whether PC games Jedi-mind-trick board wargamers into thinking they're less complex than they are.
While nothing compares to the perverse (yes, I said it) granular complexity of ASL, which I take to be a form of ludatory masochism, surely any of the Tiller SB games, CoH, and LnL's title can rival the complexity of the original SL, Band of Brothers, Combat Commander, &c.? But, because so much of the rule reading, chart-looking, and dice rolling is under the hood, we convince ourselves that it's less genuine, less groggy.
Lacking MP as this game does, it's a non-starter for me, but I think there's this boardgame bogeyman lurking in many of our booze-addled minds that unfairly disadvantages this offering in other ways.
Not sure if the above is just a general comment or directed at someone, but I have puzzled over that also indirectly. My only boardgaming now is done with the 'social' types of games with the family. The human interactions but also the physical components and actions are tangible and are intrinsic to the experience imo. If I dig back through the memory banks to my old SL wargaming era, I think that was partly the same - the physical actions of playing the game, rolling dice, looking up charts, referencing rules etc were enjoyable in themselves to certain degrees and vital for the experience. A direct port of a boardgame or rules to the computer removes that physical aspect almost completely, revealing all the underpinnings helps, but if just a black box then there is a vague uneasiness and sterile feeling. Removing MP just kills it dead, for me anyways. There needs to be a hook, an attachment to the experience.
Anyways, I recall playing a beta CMBO battle with Peter fifteen years ago and over the usual email banter being somewhat surprised at his dissatisfaction with it then and the desire then to make his own ASL type game. I think overlooked was the move to 3D was the hook for the black box underneath and was a success for that. I don't see that here with this offering but I'm just one person. Regardless, kudos and congratulations for following through with your dreams.
Quote from: Richie61 on February 05, 2016, 11:55:57 AM
Lets put everything on a level field and say that "TacticalWargames" was a beta tester and quit early into the testing. ;) Fair is fair. I read his post as sounding like he has no idea what is in it and how it plays. Either it wasn't his cup of tea or he was too busy in real life to continue, but he knows the basic idea of TotH.
I was a beta tester. :) I asked Peter about lots of things about TotH during testing. :knuppel2:
You can ask Peter this one. Since before I was picked for beta testing, I was doing PM's to Peter about the game and I have been asking him about PBEM. He explained it to me and how the files would need to be passed between players ten fold. If a unit see another unit, then the game pauses to offer OP fire every time. If you have 20 units in a game and you are moving them, you could get 20 PLUS pauses (files sent one way) just for OP fire/ spotting. It the same as a board game. These files are not "turns" like in Squad Battles.
A game turn is divided into two parts, and each part is comprised of 8 segments. There are segments are done by both the "attacker" as well as the "defender". Some segments are performed by the "attacker" only and some by "defender" only.
I tried a "test" of PBEM like Sqaud Battles and sent files to myself. It was painful with LOTS of files and swapping and sending files to my e-mail. He was right. This isn't like turns in Combat Mission, Panzer Commander or Squad Battles.
Yeah, I want MP too. Maybe Matrix server play can happen someday. I hope so.
I too would like to see more features. But every game is missing this or that. I have 1135 PBEM Squad Battles games under my belt. Is Squad Battles correct and have everything? No.
God view? You can click a hex to see if the other side can see the hex and thus let you move there without being seen or be in LOS. No multi story buildings. Vehicle armor is based on two data numbers
and use a % of the front armor (which isn't correct) to calculate side/ rear/ top armor data. Gun isn't based on real data.
Every game has Pro's and Con's. Everyone.
Peter has been VERY upfront with what TotH does or doesn't do. No smoke and mirrors. It's a yes or no. If it's a "no", he will tell you why. It's not a blanket "no" and move on.
As for this:
QuoteMatrixgames' premium pricing this will fall to the bottom of the potential buy list.
I have every HPS/ JT Squad Battles games, some PzC, Panzer Battles and if I didn't find them "used", I paid $39.99 every time. You pay $39.99 for SB Vietnam today for a game released in 2001. ;)
At the end of the day, we play games for the fun or enjoyment. :)
This makes an interesting point. Many computer games actually take detail out - like proper player directed op fire - simply to accommodate multiplayer. They lose fidelity some boardgames have into the bargain. If you look at the GTS series boardgames from MMP - these would simply not be made the same way as a computer game simply to accommodate the exchange of PBEM files - yet it is a much better system for it than for example the Pnz Campaigns series - which either lets units waltz right up to an enemy or fall back on what seems an entirely random AI directed defensive fire.
So - lack of multiplayer doesn't bother me. The graphics are fine. And if by buying this now I get walls and multi story buildings later - then I will. Cause if I don't - I definitely wont.
I'm not looking for ASL by another name, and will let the title stand on its own merits.
But PBEM is something that interests me, so lack of that is definitely a strike.
@Zonso: Not directed at anyone in particular, but your response is delightful; and I agree. There is something always lost when playing PBEM. This is, parenthetically, why live LAN games are the best way to play PC games, presuming actual humans aren't able to come to your home or you to theirs. This is also why Heroes of Normandie's PBEM++ rubbish makes me want to shriek; the game is built for quick, head-to-head turns and this system has significantly diminished my enjoyment of what is otherwise a praiseworthy game. There is no doubt that digital and analog gaming are different media, each with its own needs, which is why every cry of "why isn't there a digital iteration of X" isn't answered, or at least answered well.
@Zulu:Your critique of PzC is taken, but it's not all that awful. Honestly, there's not a boardgame at the scale of it or PzB that I prefer to the digital iterations. Besides, you can turn off the oft-maligned OP fire. It just makes the games go on forever. It's much easier to manage over the LAN than it is PBEM. The latter tends to bog horribly with defensive fire on.
HoN allows you to play head to head with turns going back and forth instantly without having to leave the game, so hopefully that stops any urge to shriek :)
Cheers
Pip
Quote from: magnus on February 04, 2016, 07:41:54 PM
I am not trying to stir the pot, but here goes.
This is not ASL ported to the computer.
This is one mans game built and somewhat based on ASL and probably Tobruk and a few other board games thrown in.
The purists will have to bite the bullet and either like the game for itself or not like it because it is not 100% ASL.
This is also not a gaming company or even a few gents, it is one man's vision of a tactical game.
I think the game has plenty to stand on it's own without even mentioning ASL.
Tigers on the Hunt is inspired by ASL, and correct I'm just a wargamer like you guys. I worked on the game in my spare time after day job or full time while I was between job contracts. I created a game that I wanted to play, and now I'm just sharing with the rest of the world, nothing more and nothing less. If things go well I will add more features...we shall see.
I think my Squad Leader mod for TotH is done. Well as done as I feel like doing for now :)
I used only Squad Leader counters. I used (2) men images for full squad and 1 man image for 1/2 squads. Plus I moved the "stars" to the bottom to make more room for the images.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-DM1_zpsdlgn1swa.jpg&hash=63351b0b7951e1cbca0b949b1ae029f9b6d50902)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-DM2_zps9gbl2xeo.jpg&hash=930af8eca599a1267586da43c15966d7bdc1bb11)
German and Soviet
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-Ger-Rus_zps9ovcbbc7.jpg&hash=622d54d530b53a77aa1d59f09422c7aa6f6eb0a6)
British :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-brits_zpswzmc3agh.jpg&hash=571611bc52f5c5bdfc8f91e59eb825be9559c410)
those ASL themed counters really improve the ASL flavour IMO
I'm surprised by the amount of concern being expressed over the lack of walls and multi-level buildings. Both of these terrain types are absent from the ASL starter kits. I've never heard complaints about this design decision with board game, and they are a very popular form of ASL. Also wonder at suggestions that all of the game systems/rules from ASL should be implemented. Talk about utopian thinking. I'll take SK style over computer World In Flames any day. Not that I don't hope to see TotH evolve and grow.
well done Richie61, the chits are what I will use, and the game is far more interesting with them.
I know its not full ASL type game Cyrano, and I would one day wish to play a full ASL PC game, its not putting me off, just this type of game has me checking matrix everyday in-case its released.
Quote from: gameleaper on February 08, 2016, 07:50:02 AM
well done Richie61, the chits are what I will use, and the game is far more interesting with them.
Thanks. I did a test with JG images too, but I didn't like it.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTOTH-SL29_zpsvjc9y26a.jpg&hash=8a53c9ba63405702338e4ab3ae7a52e88617d223)
Nice video spelk...thanks. I am more and more leaning toward getting this game, it's looking to be more like I wanted L&L's Heroes of Stalingrad to be but wasn't.
thx for the link to the vid spelk. I like the mechanic to fire at moving targets like ASL. I think it gets more interesting every time I see something new about this game
Thanks for your feedback guys, Jorgen and I we appreciate it :)
I dropped out fairly quickly because I only have a set amount of time to dedicate to testing and a game has to grab me ASAP for me to put time into it. TOTH didn't grab me enough and so I thought best I pull out and let someone else take my place. Also it seemed to me it was feature complete and the developer was only interested in bug\error's where I suppose I like to be in a position to offer ideas on new features\improvements.
For me a new tactical wargame needs to be indepth and be doing things other tac wargames aren't doing or don't have, features that are often requested on forums, or if it takes a whole new innovative approach\design, abandoning any link to boardgame roots. I already have tactical wargames that hardly get played with a similar feature set as TOTH so TOTH would have to be uber special with gameplay features not seen in the other tac games for me to consider buying.
I will be buying CMx2 series games\modules and also Graviteam Tactics Muis Front but as far as new tac games go I see nothing on the horizon that has what I'm looking for.
I do truly hope TOTH is a success though as there can never be enough tactical wargames out there and if after some expansions it really does rival ASL I'll certainly be buying.
For Me a PC game that is close to a boardgame is the most important thing in a wargame, if it looks like a boardgame I want it. a PC version of ASL is the holy grail, and TotH looks close enough to be a monster in my games collection, it may not be a clone of ASL, but slightly set back - I can visualise a squad being on all floors of a building, I don't need to know what floor a squad is on, don't get me wrong I want multi-levels its just not going to put me off. TotH has enormous ASL type play to enjoy it for what it is, not what its not, I hope it will be worked-on more to get a better game, but I can say that about all games.
Nice video. The gameplay does look interesting.
Quote from: TacticalWargames on February 09, 2016, 01:46:55 PM
I will be buying CMx2 series games\modules and also Graviteam Tactics Muis Front
Me too :D
Quote from: gameleaper on February 09, 2016, 09:03:38 PM
For Me a PC game that is close to a boardgame is the most important thing in a wargame, if it looks like a boardgame I want it. a PC version of ASL is the holy grail, and TotH looks close enough to be a monster in my games collection, it may not be a clone of ASL, but slightly set back - I can visualise a squad being on all floors of a building, I don't need to know what floor a squad is on, don't get me wrong I want multi-levels its just not going to put me off. TotH has enormous ASL type play to enjoy it for what it is, not what its not, I hope it will be worked-on more to get a better game, but I can say that about all games.
Thank you!
BlackJaguar, apologies if it's already been mentioned in this thread but when do you expect to release the game?
Quote from: Staggerwing on February 11, 2016, 06:29:57 AM
BlackJaguar, apologies if it's already been mentioned in this thread but when do you expect to release the game?
February 25th...two weeks to go ;)
Peter,
Awesome! I have my Squad Leader mod done now and maybe a map or two I made :)
The video is great! Like I said before, this game has a future! This is the closest I've seen of a true board wargame on PC. I'm going to support it 100%. We all should.
I hope you Modders can make changes to look like my attached image.
I am posting an old thread that Peter Fisla originally showed when his dream for TOTH (then call XASL) first appeared on the web.
From Matrix forums in 2006 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1280844&mpage=1&key=XASL# It's post number 8 on the thread and it has the full image that DOES NOT APPEAR on my attachment.
Another image of the game is on the same thread Post #108. Click on the links to see the full images and see the awesome results screen.
This would be my, and probably several other peoples, dream game.
Keep up the good work Peter.
Thanks HL&DT....that awesome screenie brought back some very old, fond ASL memories. I look forward to reading players initial impressions once TotH is released.
AAR posted....
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4023747
Hi All, here is a new video on YouTube how to use the scenario editor for the game:
http://youtu.be/YEnzVKvgH40
Cheers!
Quote from: Hot lead and dirty talk! on February 12, 2016, 01:12:59 AM
I hope you Modders can make changes to look like my attached image.
I am posting an old thread that Peter Fisla originally showed when his dream for TOTH (then call XASL) first appeared on the web.
From Matrix forums in 2006 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1280844&mpage=1&key=XASL# (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1280844&mpage=1&key=XASL#) It's post number 8 on the thread and it has the full image that DOES NOT APPEAR on my attachment.
Another image of the game is on the same thread Post #108. Click on the links to see the full images and see the awesome results screen.
This would be my, and probably several other peoples, dream game.
Keep up the good work Peter.
Yes, you can mod it to look just like that.
Quote from: BlackJaguar on February 18, 2016, 08:10:46 AM
Hi All, here is a new video on YouTube how to use the scenario editor for the game:
http://youtu.be/YEnzVKvgH40
Cheers!
I just watched the full video wasn't hard to keep track, thx BJ, I just wanna buy the game - roll on 25th
BJ I know its probably a secret so don't feel you have to answer, what price range will the game be, so I can make sure I have the pennies available so my girlfriend dosnt notice :)
Quote from: gameleaper on February 19, 2016, 03:12:01 AM
BJ I know its probably a secret so don't feel you have to answer, what price range will the game be, so I can make sure I have the pennies available so my girlfriend dosnt notice :)
You will find out next Thursday, I can't say more than that sorry ;)
Just a quick update guys, the game is going to released tomorrow.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4030153
Cheers!
when do they start work, because Ive been waiting for hours?
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 04:07:12 AM
when do they start work, because Ive been waiting for hours?
We usually release games in the early afternoon, UK time. ;)
ok, thx! I will have a cuppa while I wait.
Tis out!
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1897/Attention.Wargamers!..Tigers.on.the.Hunt.is.Released!
Quote from: spelk on February 25, 2016, 09:51:06 AM
Tis out!
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1897/Attention.Wargamers!..Tigers.on.the.Hunt.is.Released!
Zero day patch is also out, I have made major improvements in AI unit pathfinding etc...please see here for details:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4030153
Thank You
did they use Tigers on the Hunt for the title because Tigers = sexy
i ask because of the 6 screenshots surely set up to tempt my wallet, there are no tigers
WooooHooo my money is in your pocket BJ, and I am playing my fav game with a PC - things just don't get any better.
I advise you guys on the fence to buy now, because Ive seen game prices rise after a week because the current price is a launch discounted price.
every old ASLer and SLer player will be buying this game, and I am sure as sure ASL is the best boardgame ever created, so it stands to reason this game will be a good game too. Ive just tested it on tut1 and after trying to move an exit point I found scroll and found all the units lower down the map , HeHa :) I realy was stumped for a minite .
BJ thankyou.
Quote from: undercovergeek on February 25, 2016, 10:08:34 AM
did they use Tigers on the Hunt for the title because Tigers = sexy
i ask because of the 6 screenshots surely set up to tempt my wallet, there are no tigers
I chose the title "Tigers on the Hunt" because I think it's easy to remember and yes I like the Tiger tank, the other name that I was considering was "Stugs on the Hunt" as I also like SutG III Assault Gun/TD. I thought Tiger was more catchy.
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
Oh Boy! Can't wait for the Opinion-nating to begin. This should be better than Pay-Per-View. :P
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
If it makes you feel any better, $49.99 US is simply too rich for my blood for this one.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
hehe I thought you lived in a high inflation zone and 73$ was the same value as us50$ :) I didn't realise you pay for coversion, my bank zaps me for buying off humblebundle(incidently they at the moment all the pathfinder rpg books on the weekly bundle)
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Note that I didn't say that this game isn't worth $50. I said that $50 is too rich for my blood for this title. I'm not an ASL fan. I don't commonly play ASL and squad scale games are pretty far down on my list. I don't care for the graphics and I don't buy the argument that I can "just mod it" as if that absolves the developer from providing better than 1990's graphics. It uses a system that prohibits PBEM play, and most of my computer gaming these days is PBEM That means,
for me, that I am unlikely to get $50 worth of game play out of this title. If it goes on sale later for $30, it might cross the threshold for me and I'd buy it.
You're an ASL fan and you've been excited about this forever. I get that,
to you, this is worth $50 or even more. You'll probably play this as much as I'm playing some other games right now and will enjoy the hell out of it. There's definitely an audience for this game and I'm sure that Matrix will sell plenty of games at this price.
Just because someone doesn't see personal value in a particular game doesn't mean that they're wrong for not liking it and it isn't a personal criticism of another's choice. Equally, if I don't see the value in the game for me personally, I have no business trying to convince someone else that they shouldn't like it. And in a nutshell, that's why I habitually avoid all Combat Mission game threads anymore. :)
Quote from: panzerde on February 25, 2016, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Note that I didn't say that this game isn't worth $50. I said that $50 is too rich for my blood for this title. I'm not an ASL fan. I don't commonly play ASL and squad scale games are pretty far down on my list. I don't care for the graphics and I don't buy the argument that I can "just mod it" as if that absolves the developer from providing better than 1990's graphics. It uses a system that prohibits PBEM play, and most of my computer gaming these days is PBEM That means, for me, that I am unlikely to get $50 worth of game play out of this title. If it goes on sale later for $30, it might cross the threshold for me and I'd buy it.
You're an ASL fan and you've been excited about this forever. I get that, to you, this is worth $50 or even more. You'll probably play this as much as I'm playing some other games right now and will enjoy the hell out of it. There's definitely an audience for this game and I'm sure that Matrix will sell plenty of games at this price.
Just because someone doesn't see personal value in a particular game doesn't mean that they're wrong for not liking it and it isn't a personal criticism of another's choice. Equally, if I don't see the value in the game for me personally, I have no business trying to convince someone else that they shouldn't like it. And in a nutshell, that's why I habitually avoid all Combat Mission game threads anymore. :)
that's the best intelligent reason for not wanting to buy I have read, I am totally in agreement with your resoning
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
hehe I thought you lived in a high inflation zone and 73$ was the same value as us$ :) I didn't realise you pay for coversion, my bank zaps me for buying off humblebundle(incidently they at the moment all the pathfinder rpg books on the weekly bundle)
Ha! No you had it right the first time. $72.99 CDN is Martix's (or DR or whomever they are using these days) conversion of $49.99 USD. That's $1.46 CDN = $1.00 USD. Official rate is $1.36 CDN = $1.00 USD.... someone is making some extra money....
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: panzerde on February 25, 2016, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Note that I didn't say that this game isn't worth $50. I said that $50 is too rich for my blood for this title. I'm not an ASL fan. I don't commonly play ASL and squad scale games are pretty far down on my list. I don't care for the graphics and I don't buy the argument that I can "just mod it" as if that absolves the developer from providing better than 1990's graphics. It uses a system that prohibits PBEM play, and most of my computer gaming these days is PBEM That means, for me, that I am unlikely to get $50 worth of game play out of this title. If it goes on sale later for $30, it might cross the threshold for me and I'd buy it.
You're an ASL fan and you've been excited about this forever. I get that, to you, this is worth $50 or even more. You'll probably play this as much as I'm playing some other games right now and will enjoy the hell out of it. There's definitely an audience for this game and I'm sure that Matrix will sell plenty of games at this price.
Just because someone doesn't see personal value in a particular game doesn't mean that they're wrong for not liking it and it isn't a personal criticism of another's choice. Equally, if I don't see the value in the game for me personally, I have no business trying to convince someone else that they shouldn't like it. And in a nutshell, that's why I habitually avoid all Combat Mission game threads anymore. :)
that's the best intelligent reason for not wanting to buy I have read, I am totally in agreement with your resoning
Don't buy that reason.... Doug's just being cheap.... like me. ;)
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:34:02 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: panzerde on February 25, 2016, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Note that I didn't say that this game isn't worth $50. I said that $50 is too rich for my blood for this title. I'm not an ASL fan. I don't commonly play ASL and squad scale games are pretty far down on my list. I don't care for the graphics and I don't buy the argument that I can "just mod it" as if that absolves the developer from providing better than 1990's graphics. It uses a system that prohibits PBEM play, and most of my computer gaming these days is PBEM That means, for me, that I am unlikely to get $50 worth of game play out of this title. If it goes on sale later for $30, it might cross the threshold for me and I'd buy it.
You're an ASL fan and you've been excited about this forever. I get that, to you, this is worth $50 or even more. You'll probably play this as much as I'm playing some other games right now and will enjoy the hell out of it. There's definitely an audience for this game and I'm sure that Matrix will sell plenty of games at this price.
Just because someone doesn't see personal value in a particular game doesn't mean that they're wrong for not liking it and it isn't a personal criticism of another's choice. Equally, if I don't see the value in the game for me personally, I have no business trying to convince someone else that they shouldn't like it. And in a nutshell, that's why I habitually avoid all Combat Mission game threads anymore. :)
that's the best intelligent reason for not wanting to buy I have read, I am totally in agreement with your resoning
Don't buy that reason.... Doug's just being cheap.... like me. ;)
:)
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
hehe I thought you lived in a high inflation zone and 73$ was the same value as us$ :) I didn't realise you pay for coversion, my bank zaps me for buying off humblebundle(incidently they at the moment all the pathfinder rpg books on the weekly bundle)
Ha! No you had it right the first time. $72.99 CDN is Martix's (or DR or whomever they are using these days) conversion of $49.99 USD. That's $1.46 CDN = $1.00 USD. Official rate is $1.36 CDN = $1.00 USD.... someone is making some extra money....
While it's not my area of expertise, 1.36 (e.g. from XE.COM) is the mid-market rate, it's not the actual rate that you could go out and buy USDs for.
Cheers
Pip
Quote from: PipFromSlitherine on February 25, 2016, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
hehe I thought you lived in a high inflation zone and 73$ was the same value as us$ :) I didn't realise you pay for coversion, my bank zaps me for buying off humblebundle(incidently they at the moment all the pathfinder rpg books on the weekly bundle)
Ha! No you had it right the first time. $72.99 CDN is Martix's (or DR or whomever they are using these days) conversion of $49.99 USD. That's $1.46 CDN = $1.00 USD. Official rate is $1.36 CDN = $1.00 USD.... someone is making some extra money....
While it's not my area of expertise, 1.36 (e.g. from XE.COM) is the mid-market rate, it's not the actual rate that you could go out and buy USDs for.
Cheers
Pip
Yeah I know... it's me being cheap ;) ... but some places do have better exchange rates... like if I buy in USD through PayPal, PayPal's exchange rate usually is better.
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:49:57 AM
Quote from: PipFromSlitherine on February 25, 2016, 11:43:24 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:26:09 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 25, 2016, 11:09:56 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
$73 CDN.... frickin dollar.... >:(
I think its worth it, because I play ASL over and over and TotH plays just like ASL, and I program games and can see what BJ has put into this game. and its the same price as "Brother Against Brother" and a couple of dollars more than a few others,
Id say this matrix flag game to be, this is why I love matrix you just cant get games like TotH or WitPAE or Brother Against Brother or a few others at many places unless we are willing to pay for them they will disappear into xbox shooter games :(
Not really complaining about the price of the game just the conversion to Canadian dollars that really sucks.... :(
hehe I thought you lived in a high inflation zone and 73$ was the same value as us$ :) I didn't realise you pay for coversion, my bank zaps me for buying off humblebundle(incidently they at the moment all the pathfinder rpg books on the weekly bundle)
Ha! No you had it right the first time. $72.99 CDN is Martix's (or DR or whomever they are using these days) conversion of $49.99 USD. That's $1.46 CDN = $1.00 USD. Official rate is $1.36 CDN = $1.00 USD.... someone is making some extra money....
While it's not my area of expertise, 1.36 (e.g. from XE.COM) is the mid-market rate, it's not the actual rate that you could go out and buy USDs for.
Cheers
Pip
Yeah I know... it's me being cheap ;) ... but some places do have better exchange rates... like if I buy in USD through PayPal, PayPal's exchange rate usually is better.
paying cheaper via paypal is a great idea thx, paying the exchange rate that is higher is like loosing money to attrition,
Quote from: Barthheart on February 25, 2016, 11:34:02 AM
Don't buy that reason.... Doug's just being cheap.... like me. ;)
Well yeah, then there's that, too... ;D
Downloading now :)
I used paypal and got a slightly better exchange rate @ CDN0.71
The dollars trading @ 0.74 today, so not so bad.
I don't know what is up with this week. Played ASL Friday, Monday and Wednesday. UpFront tonight, ASL scheduled for next Tuesday and Tigers on the Hunt is busy installing on my HD.
I hope I never wake up :D
Quote from: Rekim on February 25, 2016, 03:24:44 PM
Downloading now :)
I used paypal and got a slightly better exchange rate @ CDN0.71
The dollars trading @ 0.74 today, so not so bad.
Yeah it's only a savings of $3.... but it's the principle of the thing. O0
73 bucks AUD.....top lel
@Rekim: I say this, and I do not jest: I envy your dedication. Doug, Boggit, myself, and a bunch of others around here are a bunch of ADHD game nerds who no one was willing to play with 30 years ago and now that we can all play with one another via PBEM, we want to play ALL THE GAMEZ. AT ONCE. Doug and I, at one point, had something like five games going simultaneously.
And to the OP: Best of luck to this launch! Our niche is mighty and will be served! I'm out for the same reasons Doug is, but, seriously gents, congrats on the launch and all the best!
Quote from: Cyrano on February 25, 2016, 04:50:45 PM
@Rekim: I say this, and I do not jest: I envy your dedication. Doug, Boggit, myself, and a bunch of others around here are a bunch of ADHD game nerds who no one was willing to play with 30 years ago and now that we can all play with one another via PBEM, we want to play ALL THE GAMEZ. AT ONCE. Doug and I, at one point, had something like five games going simultaneously.
And to the OP: Best of luck to this launch! Our niche is mighty and will be served! I'm out for the same reasons Doug is, but, seriously gents, congrats on the launch and all the best!
Read: Jim is a cheap basturd like Doug and I..... ;D
Quote from: Rekim on February 25, 2016, 03:29:57 PM
I don't know what is up with this week. Played ASL Friday, Monday and Wednesday. UpFront tonight, ASL scheduled for next Tuesday and Tigers on the Hunt is busy installing on my HD.
I hope I never wake up :D
Well how about that! :)
Thankyou Richie61 for the ASL Mod, it make all the difference.
I haven't decided whether to pick this up or not. I've been holding of on other games and for some reason strategy games have dropped down my play list.
But good luck on the release BlackJaguar and team.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 26, 2016, 02:00:28 AM
I haven't decided whether to pick this up or not. I've been holding of on other games and for some reason strategy games have dropped down my play list.
But good luck on the release BlackJaguar and team.
Thank you sir! ;)
couple of questions BJ?
I've not had a great deal of time to play yet, just messings at the moment, but I would like to know how the broken units become un-broken - does the program roll a pair of D6 like ASL? the reason I'm asking is the ASL mod still has all the numbers on the chits, the fire-range seemed correct from a couple of checks I did, but what I want to know is the moral and fire-power close to whats on the ASL chits? I can live with the leaders numbers in the mod as they just go from bad to good.
Also If you make expansions and action packs, like rising-sun, I'm in for buying them ? or VotG :)
how did your first day sales go? I know this may be to nosey :) just wondering .
I loved the hotseat option thx, I found the reactive fire in the movment phase really well done.
Hoping someone posts a mini-review on their initial gameplay impressions. My gaming funds are limited so I rely on this site for input. The vids I've watched look great but there's nothing like a grog-review,
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 08:49:50 AM
couple of questions BJ?
I've not had a great deal of time to play yet, just messings at the moment, but I would like to know how the broken units become un-broken - does the program roll a pair of D6 like ASL? the reason I'm asking is the ASL mod still has all the numbers on the chits, the fire-range seemed correct from a couple of checks I did, but what I want to know is the moral and fire-power close to whats on the ASL chits? I can live with the leaders numbers in the mod as they just go from bad to good.
Also If you make expansions and action packs, like rising-sun, I'm in for buying them ? or VotG :)
how did your first day sales go? I know this may be to nosey :) just wondering .
I loved the hotseat option thx, I found the reactive fire in the movment phase really well done.
+1. Throw in a Pacific War expansion and it becomes an offer I can't refuse. ^-^
Quote from: bbmike on February 26, 2016, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 08:49:50 AM
couple of questions BJ?
I've not had a great deal of time to play yet, just messings at the moment, but I would like to know how the broken units become un-broken - does the program roll a pair of D6 like ASL? the reason I'm asking is the ASL mod still has all the numbers on the chits, the fire-range seemed correct from a couple of checks I did, but what I want to know is the moral and fire-power close to whats on the ASL chits? I can live with the leaders numbers in the mod as they just go from bad to good.
Also If you make expansions and action packs, like rising-sun, I'm in for buying them ? or VotG :)
how did your first day sales go? I know this may be to nosey :) just wondering .
I loved the hotseat option thx, I found the reactive fire in the movment phase really well done.
+1. Throw in a Pacific War expansion and it becomes an offer I can't refuse. ^-^
plus this game has a great editor to setup a battle, this is its best point IMHO , I hope we see BJ add-on to it, ASL made most profit from modules.
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: bbmike on February 26, 2016, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 08:49:50 AM
couple of questions BJ?
I've not had a great deal of time to play yet, just messings at the moment, but I would like to know how the broken units become un-broken - does the program roll a pair of D6 like ASL? the reason I'm asking is the ASL mod still has all the numbers on the chits, the fire-range seemed correct from a couple of checks I did, but what I want to know is the moral and fire-power close to whats on the ASL chits? I can live with the leaders numbers in the mod as they just go from bad to good.
Also If you make expansions and action packs, like rising-sun, I'm in for buying them ? or VotG :)
how did your first day sales go? I know this may be to nosey :) just wondering .
I loved the hotseat option thx, I found the reactive fire in the movment phase really well done.
+1. Throw in a Pacific War expansion and it becomes an offer I can't refuse. ^-^
plus this game has a great editor to setup a battle, this is its best point IMHO , I hope we see BJ add-on to it, ASL made most profit from modules.
Cant say I have played it yet ... and on face of things it has certain things missing for - like hexside terrain. But bought it in the hope BJ and team can add to it later
Quote from: Zulu1966 on February 26, 2016, 11:08:21 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: bbmike on February 26, 2016, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 26, 2016, 08:49:50 AM
couple of questions BJ?
I've not had a great deal of time to play yet, just messings at the moment, but I would like to know how the broken units become un-broken - does the program roll a pair of D6 like ASL? the reason I'm asking is the ASL mod still has all the numbers on the chits, the fire-range seemed correct from a couple of checks I did, but what I want to know is the moral and fire-power close to whats on the ASL chits? I can live with the leaders numbers in the mod as they just go from bad to good.
Also If you make expansions and action packs, like rising-sun, I'm in for buying them ? or VotG :)
how did your first day sales go? I know this may be to nosey :) just wondering .
I loved the hotseat option thx, I found the reactive fire in the movment phase really well done.
+1. Throw in a Pacific War expansion and it becomes an offer I can't refuse. ^-^
plus this game has a great editor to setup a battle, this is its best point IMHO , I hope we see BJ add-on to it, ASL made most profit from modules.
Cant say I have played it yet ... and on face of things it has certain things missing for - like hexside terrain. But bought it in the hope BJ and team can add to it later
you could pretent to be playing a starter kit, IIRC some of the kits didn't use hexside terrain.
A real good part of TotH is the pop-up messages telling you what your doing wrong, imagine having a friend telling you how to play ASL, the fact that these messages are there means to me the programmer has put real effort into it.
I have to say even though it has some things missing that ASL has, I'm still very much enjoying it as it is! I'm slightly bias because ASL is my fav boardgame, and I like tactical battles like steel panthers, but I have found you can play this game with little or no reading, it walks you through the phases by popups on mistakes in real time as you do it. the phases speak for themselves eg German fire phase, or American movement phase.
Quote from: gameleaper on February 27, 2016, 02:55:26 AM
A real good part of TotH is the pop-up messages telling you what your doing wrong, imagine having a friend telling you how to play ASL, the fact that these messages are there means to me the programmer has put real effort into it.
This is sooooo important and often missing in games. I recall having a very frustrating time playing Gary Grigsby's World at War. I wanted to move a ship and it wouldn't move. That in itself was annoying. What was far worse though was the game popped a message up saying (and I am not kidding) "You cannot move there"!!! Seriously!? If the game
knows why I can't move there, why not let me know about it? If you are a programmer, and you're putting a message in saying "You can't do that", then you know the reason
why I can't do that - so how about telling me the reason...share some of that knowledge? Instead, you'd have to wade through the manual and rules and figure it out yourself.
I'm all for well written manuals and documented rules and games...but, if you know the reason and you're putting a message box in anyway, just show the reason.
So if this game has that, then total kudos from me...because it (at least used to be) severely lacking in wargaming.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 27, 2016, 04:27:13 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 27, 2016, 02:55:26 AM
A real good part of TotH is the pop-up messages telling you what your doing wrong, imagine having a friend telling you how to play ASL, the fact that these messages are there means to me the programmer has put real effort into it.
This is sooooo important and often missing in games. I recall having a very frustrating time playing Gary Grigsby's World at War. I wanted to move a ship and it wouldn't move. That in itself was annoying. What was far worse though was the game popped a message up saying (and I am not kidding) "You cannot move there"!!! Seriously!? If the game knows why I can't move there, why not let me know about it? If you are a programmer, and you're putting a message in saying "You can't do that", then you know the reason why I can't do that - so how about telling me the reason...share some of that knowledge? Instead, you'd have to wade through the manual and rules and figure it out yourself.
I'm all for well written manuals and documented rules and games...but, if you know the reason and you're putting a message box in anyway, just show the reason.
So if this game has that, then total kudos from me...because it (at least used to be) severely lacking in wargaming.
you get messages like this - I tried to change the covering arc button to turn the tank, and I got the message like this"a stopped afv cant turn if your engine is off".
I also got messages like this "you cant move a unit that fired in the fire phase"
or "you cant fire a unit twice"
its a welcome surprise in a wargame as JD mentioned
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 04, 2015, 06:01:21 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on December 04, 2015, 03:24:06 AM
Quote from: BlackJaguar on December 03, 2015, 08:32:06 PM
I do have 5 levels of elevation ( base + 4 levels of hills), line of sight is calculated down to pixel level and it was a tough job....never mind unit pathfinding.
...are there multistory buildings then?
I am looking forward to your game anyway :)
unfortunately no because it is hard to do the interface that will handle units in multiple locations in the same hex...this is something that is on my to do list once I go 3D.
I was looking through the older threads BJ, and I want to say IMHO I would hate a 3D version, I like it as is, you may notice everybody wanted ASL mod instead of 3D chits. I'm not saying the call of duty crowd would prefer 2D chits, its just I think the game is better as is.
The updates Id recommend , is 2D chits with FirePower A-H and a number equivalent to ASL chits(or similar chits), and same for moral etc... I would make modules that mirror ASL modules, I would buy a bundle of ASL premade maps & scenarios(the community will no dought make these, but your in a position to have a tile-set to accompany your new Maps) , you could also Make a Mod yourself to transform all tiles in the Maps to a different theatre like the pacific, you could work on Multiplayer PBEM(Idont want to be connected, I want to think about my turn, so real-time MP connection isn't what I would want - Steel Panthers ww2 reworked SPWaW opfire and did automatic opfire, maybe you could add the options for part auto actions), I would not care for real-time Multiplayer but vassal players would do. I would create a scenario competition and prize. I would do rotating topdown AFVs(you don't have to rotate the chit, you replace with a new redrawn chit rotated).
you can already rest! you've made a great game! grogs want ASL stuff ,so don't deviate on some idea that 3D is better - there are lots of 3D games - and only a few available TotH type games, these are just some of my passing thoughts, just please please don't go 3D :(
I have not played battle academy for a while, but I don't remember multi-level buildings?
I made a multi-level game by creating 2 maps the same with all units on both maps , but units on level 1 on first map and units on level 2 on second map, then I did the moves or fired on both separate maps, and let the A.I. choose what map situation was better, it took no development time it was easy, I'm not saying you can do it in TotH, its just one approach.
PS: I found the configuration.ini file and changed windowed to yes, but it stays full-screen, can it be put in window-mode? because if it can you can use it on a windows tablet with virtual keyboard.
BJ
You've done it! I bought it! I love it! I know this is only the beginning. Everybody get on the bandwagon. I said this game has a future and now I'm sure of it. Keep going!
Sava
Uhhgg...shields down!....close to buying!..... :D
Quote from: bbmike on February 27, 2016, 01:19:54 PM
Uhhgg...shields down!....close to buying!..... :D
If you like ASL, the turn-sequence does a good job of making you feel ASL, the flow feels just like playing a starter-kit, the ATGs are satisfying shooting. I do enjoy it a lot more than JTiller games, but JTiller has more stats and detail.
I'm really on the fence with this one. On one hand I think I'll be put off by the lack of tangible info ongoing and on the other I'd like to support the guys effort to bring the tactical level to computer.
I'm really hoping Lock & Load does away with the spotting rule in their version of L&L Tactical. HoS was a great looking presentation somewhat spoiled by that silly spotting rule. Turned more than a few off.
Toth is a bit more expensive than I thought it might be. I'm not usually so tight with my gaming dollars but I own so many titles I don't actually play.
Quote from: Moreb on February 27, 2016, 05:22:55 PM
I'm really on the fence with this one. On one hand I think I'll be put off by the lack of tangible info ongoing and on the other I'd like to support the guys effort to bring the tactical level to computer.
I'm really hoping Lock & Load does away with the spotting rule in their version of L&L Tactical. HoS was a great looking presentation somewhat spoiled by that silly spotting rule. Turned more than a few off.
Toth is a bit more expensive than I thought it might be. I'm not usually so tight with my gaming dollars but I own so many titles I don't actually play.
Interesting comment Moreb....it was the spotting rules that turned me off to HoS as well. I always felt like I was battling the rules rather than the enemy.
As a long time player of the LnL tactical series I can tell you that the spotting rule is not going anywhere. In the hundreds of scenarios I've played I've maybe used spotting a few dozen times.
If you are on the attack you don't have time to waste trying to spot. If you are on the defence you just have to wait for the attacker to move/fire and then shoot at him. The game is about maneuvering not sitting across from each other and blasting away.
Yes it's very different from most other tactical systems and one of the reasons I play it so much. It does take time to untrained yourself from other systems though...
Tigers on the Hunt looks like a really great version of the ASL for the PC. I'll be getting it sooner or later. It looks fun and sounds like it's challenging which is the entire point of our hobby. Good job BJ. O0
Quote from: Barthheart on February 27, 2016, 07:55:00 PM
As a long time player of the LnL tactical series I can tell you that the spotting rule is not going anywhere. In the hundreds of scenarios I've played I've maybe used spotting a few dozen times.
If you are on the attack you don't have time to waste trying to spot. If you are on the defence you just have to wait for the attacker to move/fire and then shoot at him. The game is about maneuvering not sitting across from each other and blasting away.
Yes it's very different from most other tactical systems and one of the reasons I play it so much. It does take time to untrained yourself from other systems though...
Tigers on the Hunt looks like a really great version of the ASL for the PC. I'll be getting it sooner or later. It looks fun and sounds like it's challenging which is the entire point of our hobby. Good job BJ. O0
Spotting rule is an abstraction of Fog of War which is absent in a boardgame because both players see every counter.
Pulling the trigger on Tigers now.
As for the spotting rules in HoS, I hated them merely because there was no bonus added for units that engaged them supposedly moments prior.
I am speaking of the computer version. It's been a while since I played but wasn't there already hidden units and fow?
Of course a problem with my order. Help ticket sent.
Maybe tomorrow.
Quote from: Moreb on February 27, 2016, 08:10:54 PM
Pulling the trigger on Tigers now.
As for the spotting rules in HoS, I hated them merely because there was no bonus added for units that engaged them supposedly moments prior.
I am speaking of the computer version. It's been a while since I played but wasn't there already hidden units and fow?
I hated the computer version because the missions seems more like s puzzle.
I bit the bullet. I had bought Tigers Unleashed (different game) a while back but was unimpressed, mostly by the fact it had geomorphic maps and you couldn't edit them.
I will give this a little more of a trial, but if anyone thinks this will be ASL for the computer, they're naturally going to be disappointed.
Good news - for me at least - the map editor is a full-blown scenario creator, maps from scratch, OOB and all.
As noted, the turn sequence is very similar to ASL - if one wanted to be unkind, they could say "ripped off" as there are lots of things identical, from the majority of the phase system (admin ("rally"), fire (prep fire), movement, defensive fire, attacker's fire (Advancing fire), rout, advance and close combat. There are pin and break results, residual fire during the enemy's movement phase, etc.
The maps may be a stumbling block, as I see (correct me if wrong) there are no walls, hedges or bocage, and most importantly, no upper levels in buildings. Looks like you have specific blank templates (in other words, can't pick the size of the map down to the number of hexrows and columns), but also the ability to designate hexes unplayable, so I suppose you can customize the map sizes with a workaround.
There seem to be some bugs still as myself and at least one other player have already noted that you can advance pinned or broken units when stacked with a leader.
The AI seems fairly static but I haven't played enough to really judge it. What I can judge is the UI which is not intuitive. To fire or move any unit you have to click on it twice, once on the map, and once in the OB list for that hex that pops up. It gets tedious quickly, especially if firing all the weapons in an AFV - you can CTRL click to fire multiple units together, but apparently not multiple tank weapons? So you have to click everything three times (unit on the map, unit on the hex listing, then the specific weapon you want to fire). And you have to remember to LEFT click the map, LEFT click the unit (and CTRL-LEFT click to select multiple units), then RIGHT click to indicate a target. I'm not a programmer, but I have to believe there are simpler ways to do this.
And there doesn't seem to be any way to expand the counter stacks (as in VASL), so you have to click the map to see what is in the hex, and get a sea of white text. They might have had different colour fonts to show at a glance who is broken, but they don't, and if you have stacked units, you can't see what is underneath, so you have to click each hex and try to remember where your broken guys are. I admit to not reading the manual thoroughly so perhaps this is addressed - but if so, it is not intuitive either. (CORRECTION - you can right click and hold to see units in a hex).
There is plenty to like - the order of battle seems robust and the editor seems fairly flexible with lots of terrain showing up from ASL - 4 levels of hexes, orchards, woods, brush, crag, two types of roads, stone and wood buildings, grain - and the irritations listed above could probably be worked out. The trenches, I note, are terrain elements (as in Combat Mission) rather than a fortification you can place at will.
I have to say though, that after 30 years of buying products touted as "ASL for the computer" - beginning with Under Fire in 1985 - I think at some point someone needs to step up with a product that isn't just amusing squeaks and squiggles that requires apologies in advance. Lock'n'Load features some nice artwork evocative of hand-painted boardgaming equipment. I don't know what to say about the artwork in this one. I know the game is supposed to be the thing, but after trying out the Tutorial and not getting anywhere near the objectives - which the computer defended by sitting stock still - (and reading that you can't play PBEM) I wonder just how far this will get on the game quality alone.
What I did like was that at least the phases were obvious - never confused about what was happening or whose turn it was - and that the fire attacks were resolved quickly (unlike Steel Panthers, where you would sit for what seemed like hours, either watching the same animated combat sprites, or turning the sprites off and not getting enough time to read the results). Clicking everything multiple times is a pain, but at least the info was presented when you did so and while it took time to navigate the whole map, I got a feel of the overall situation nonetheless - didn't often feel like that in Steel Panthers.
There is something to be said for supporting developers who are at least trying to raise the bar as far as squad-based simulations go - I don't know that this does, but if the dev/publisher is committed to expanding this (multi-level buildings would, I think, be a must) it is not a bad start.
Hi,
I haven't spent enough time with the game, .. to fully comment on your findings. ???
However, ..
QuoteAnd there doesn't seem to be any way to expand the counter stacks (as in VASL), so you have to click the map to see what is in the hex, and get a sea of white text. They might have had different colour fonts to show at a glance who is broken, but they don't, and if you have stacked units, you can't see what is underneath, so you have to click each hex and try to remember where your broken guys are. I admit to not reading the manual thoroughly so perhaps this is addressed - but if so, it is not intuitive either.
Right-Clicking on a hex, .. opens a window that displays all units, and their status, (see pic) .. in the hex. :)
Page 21 of the manual, .. however, I found it without having read the manual, .. just by right-clicking on a hex .. so, that's kinda intuitive. :)
Cheers
Tom
Quote from: jomni on February 27, 2016, 07:57:02 PM
Spotting rule is an abstraction of Fog of War which is absent in a boardgame because both players see every counter.
ASL alleviates this somewhat with Hidden (not visible at all on the board until a certain event) and ? counters which might be dummies. Pretty good compromise if you ask me.
I like this game very much
gameleaper,
those questions will not be answered to a pleasable amount. They just cant for obvious reason.
I studied all! the posts here and over at Matrix and when i read between the lines in the different posts and threads and the inspired by phrase like hitten a brick wall when the bugging get too instense.
I guesstimate if we would just take the ASL rulebook and tables and after enuf statistic sampling of experimental situation setups (reverse engineering) we will find out these numbers are exactly the inner workings. (which is intended,...and great :) actually i would be disappointed if not ;) )
Of course the publisher/developer cant lay those number and mechanics all to open because if a certain threshold get stepped the ugly faced lawyers of the ASL-licence holder will show up for the copy right claims ...and nobody in the community want that.
So i think we just have to taken that inspired by fact for granted and all detailed answers are literally in the ASL documenation
Unforunatly players who want to dig a little deeper in TotH and who dont have ASL rules around have to browse the Internet and/or watch ASL tutorial vid on youtube.
(for example like this i found in a sec: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_d46Q2dbc )
I haven't decided to get this yet or not. I'm waiting for any kinks to be worked out but I must say I am certainly enjoying seeing all the information you guys are posting. Seems the game has a decent design foundation so far.
MikeGER thankyou for putting me on the right track, I didn't know it was like that. the game just got a lot more interesting for Me, I can be a dumbo at times ;)
Quote from: Thomasew on February 28, 2016, 01:39:32 AM
Hi,
I haven't spent enough time with the game, .. to fully comment on your findings. ???
However, ..
QuoteAnd there doesn't seem to be any way to expand the counter stacks (as in VASL), so you have to click the map to see what is in the hex, and get a sea of white text. They might have had different colour fonts to show at a glance who is broken, but they don't, and if you have stacked units, you can't see what is underneath, so you have to click each hex and try to remember where your broken guys are. I admit to not reading the manual thoroughly so perhaps this is addressed - but if so, it is not intuitive either.
Right-Clicking on a hex, .. opens a window that displays all units, and their status, (see pic) .. in the hex. :)
Page 21 of the manual, .. however, I found it without having read the manual, .. just by right-clicking on a hex .. so, that's kinda intuitive. :)
Cheers
Tom
Thanks for this - looks like you have to right click, and hold down. Thanks for the info. So after showing you what's in the hex, if you want to do anything with those units, you have to let go of the right mouse button, then left click, then click in the little menu. Then right click on where you want to move/fire.
the JMass TotH VASL ASL mod on the matrix forums (its in the mods and scenarios section,Im recommending this mod over the ASL mod, because the AFV have the movement points on the chits) - you need to download and install . the numbers on the units are real game numbers, you can load a map with a tank and you will see its correct combat values.
the SL mod combat values are not SL there changed to Letters eg A-H. and moral are stars
even if the game had no A.I. it would be worth it to play ASL with enforced rules, the popup messages are like a friend teaching you ASL.
if you have played ASL , and loved it buy this game at 10 times the price
Quote from: gameleaper on February 28, 2016, 10:15:59 AM
the JMass TotH VASL ASL mod on the matrix forums (its in the mods and scenarios section,Im recommending this mod over the ASL mod, because the AFV have the movement points on the chits) - you need to download and install . the numbers on the units are real game numbers, you can load a map with a tank and you will see its correct combat values.
the SL mod combat values are not SL there changed to Letters eg A-H. and moral are stars
even if the game had no A.I. it would be worth it to play ASL with enforced rules, the popup messages are like a friend teaching you ASL.
if you have played ASL , and loved it buy this game at 10 times the price
I do like this, thanks.
The link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4031833
On thing that seems to be over looked is that TotH may bring PC gamer's to ASL board games and the enjoyment of pushing cardboard counters around face to face with a human :)
Still think Squad Leader and Cross of Iron were the best titles O0
I have SL but I never played it as I got ASL soon after, PS: I like your SL mod, but as a second mod - I like to pop it in now and then
Ed could you add your Leg unit in the ASL mod to JMass VASL mod AFVs and terrain? I like your counters better but I want the vehicle Move points on the chit.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on February 28, 2016, 10:39:37 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 28, 2016, 10:15:59 AM
the JMass TotH VASL ASL mod on the matrix forums (its in the mods and scenarios section,Im recommending this mod over the ASL mod, because the AFV have the movement points on the chits) - you need to download and install . the numbers on the units are real game numbers, you can load a map with a tank and you will see its correct combat values.
the SL mod combat values are not SL there changed to Letters eg A-H. and moral are stars
even if the game had no A.I. it would be worth it to play ASL with enforced rules, the popup messages are like a friend teaching you ASL.
if you have played ASL , and loved it buy this game at 10 times the price
I do like this, thanks.
The link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4031833
thx for getting the link.
Quote from: gameleaper on February 28, 2016, 02:34:05 PM
I have SL but I never played it as I got ASL soon after
Ed could you add your Leg unit in the ASL mod to JMass VASL mod AFVs and terrain? I like your counters better but I want the vehicle Move points on the chit.
Squad Leader was a squad based game. The scenarios were mostly infantry combat with a few support vehicles added in. Cross of Iron revised the vehicle rules. Even Mr. Hill saw were SL was going and
quit the series.
Don't take this wrong, but I am not interested in doing a mix of my mod and JMass's. You can do it really easy. Get say Paint.net. Open both files. Copy his stuff and "paste" into my SL sheet. About a 2 minute job. :)
I am not really that good. I am a very basic graphic guy. I am 100% self learned about 3 years ago. I just work hard at it and don't quit till I get it to what I want it to look like.
I wanted top downs in Squad Battles, so I built stuff like this for it.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FAotR%25202_zpsbxiuo7jw.jpg&hash=916c44b3ba117bbf647425872b476732da393055)
When I couldn't find what I needed, I found blueprints and made it.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTP%2520-%2520WIP%25202_zpsikz7g01v.png&hash=03909855023b03c2f2c8917ed46e53560ed8f87b)
With TotH you can do whatever you like.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-SL34_zps1nei0lhq.png&hash=dd132e04664900a5a2adb34ad8a10281e43c8e76)
You can do! O0
that's ok Ed, I was hopeing I would not have to install a new graphics app, but I will do it in time.
the mods your doing looks great, top-down squad battles is super cool.
Check your PM ;)
Quote from: gameleaper on February 28, 2016, 03:03:48 PM
that's ok Ed, I was hopeing I would not have to install a new graphics app, but I will do it in time.
the mods your doing looks great, top-down squad battles is super cool.
I like your work also; nice job on the silhouettes, etc. Very nice.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on February 28, 2016, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 28, 2016, 03:03:48 PM
that's ok Ed, I was hopeing I would not have to install a new graphics app, but I will do it in time.
the mods your doing looks great, top-down squad battles is super cool.
I like your work also; nice job on the silhouettes, etc. Very nice.
Thanks. I have followed your work for years O0
I changed more than unit images too. I also did new firing effects :)
Forgive the micro-hijack but, Richie, who's SB terrain is that?
Thanks!
Jim
Quote from: Cyrano on February 28, 2016, 05:33:34 PM
Forgive the micro-hijack but, Richie, who's SB terrain is that?
Thanks!
Jim
Jim,
I would say it's mine or maybe my buddies. Him and I have LOTS of mods and files that have never seen the light of day. We change terrain with Jones to match the scenarios he built for us to play.
French FCM 36 :D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FSB-1_zpsj4t2nyo6.jpg&hash=55af8aac85b9f6066228386a4ca50647118c03bc)
Ed
Looks familiar. ;)
Quote from: IronX on February 28, 2016, 06:24:59 PM
Looks familiar. ;)
You wouldn't happen to be Andrew? :)
Quote from: Richie61 on February 28, 2016, 02:55:44 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTP%2520-%2520WIP%25202_zpsikz7g01v.png&hash=03909855023b03c2f2c8917ed46e53560ed8f87b)
Hungarian tanks. :smitten:
I hadn't see this posted anywhere but does anyone know if the underlying data (weapon/equipment stats) is editable as well?
No. Like lots of games now a days it's hard coded into the exe file.
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 06:34:03 AM
No. Like lots of games now a days it's hard coded into the exe file.
So there wont be any other 'nations' or 'equipment' without official addons/patches. Figured as much but thought I would ask.
I just help a guy on another forum here is a quote of my post
Perelandra67, I hope I can help, here is what I found, if you goto mods and scenarios and download JMass VASL mod for TotH, you will find an ASL type game, the AFVs Tanks etc... have the correct Movement points on the chits eg: 1 point to start engine, 1 point to change direction and 1 point to move a hex on clear ground, you can check this on a blank map with a tank. the infantry move correctly for ASL 4 hexes plus 2 with a leader, plus one if you start and stop on a road, plus 2 double time, the legged units in ASL have 3 numbers FIRE POWER,FIRE RANGE,MORAL, the mod takes the A to H fire-power and converts it to ASL for you, you can check range of fire with the menu to show range, moral is stars converted to ASL.
what all this means is the Mod counters have meaningfull numbers on the chits, you can go to the vassalegine site and download the ASL module(rename it with a zip extention and unzip it) it has all the ASL charts.
That is how I got my SL counters and JMass his counters :)
As for the movement MP's. These amounts are used lot on other board games too. Seems like 4 for a squad and 6 for a squad with a leader is the normal in board games. I would guess it's based on
a hex scale.
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
That is how I got my SL counters and JMass his counters :)
As for the movement MP's. These amounts are used lot on other board games too. Seems like 4 for a squad and 6 for a squad with a leader is the normal in board games. I would guess it's based on
a hex scale.
I saw somewhere JMass using your markers or advising it ,I cant remember now, but you guys should partner-up . your chits are better, but he has the needed numbers on the AFVs, but if you added numbers then your mod would be best
I have noticed a few people comment on how ASL values can be used in a game, I think I'm not mistakem, that tables and numbers cant be owned by anybody. you cant copyrite a table, eg you cant copyrite a formula - like einstiens theories
great job Peter
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 08:30:50 AM
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
That is how I got my SL counters and JMass his counters :)
As for the movement MP's. These amounts are used lot on other board games too. Seems like 4 for a squad and 6 for a squad with a leader is the normal in board games. I would guess it's based on
a hex scale.
I saw somewhere JMass using your markers or advising it ,I cant remember now, but you guys should partner-up . your chits are better, but he has the needed numbers on the AFVs, but if you added numbers then your mod would be best
I don't see me doing much more for TotH. I am happy with my Squad Leader mod as it is :) I am on to other games O0
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 10:22:37 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 08:30:50 AM
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
That is how I got my SL counters and JMass his counters :)
As for the movement MP's. These amounts are used lot on other board games too. Seems like 4 for a squad and 6 for a squad with a leader is the normal in board games. I would guess it's based on
a hex scale.
I saw somewhere JMass using your markers or advising it ,I cant remember now, but you guys should partner-up . your chits are better, but he has the needed numbers on the AFVs, but if you added numbers then your mod would be best
I don't see me doing much more for TotH. I am happy with my Squad Leader mod as it is :) I am on to other games O0
that's a shame Ed, I had money on you making a pacific terrain mod :)
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 11:41:16 AM
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 10:22:37 AM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 08:30:50 AM
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
That is how I got my SL counters and JMass his counters :)
As for the movement MP's. These amounts are used lot on other board games too. Seems like 4 for a squad and 6 for a squad with a leader is the normal in board games. I would guess it's based on
a hex scale.
I saw somewhere JMass using your markers or advising it ,I cant remember now, but you guys should partner-up . your chits are better, but he has the needed numbers on the AFVs, but if you added numbers then your mod would be best
I don't see me doing much more for TotH. I am happy with my Squad Leader mod as it is :) I am on to other games O0
that's a shame Ed, I had money on you making a pacific terrain mod :)
LOL! I did for the two Squad Battles Pacific titles ;D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FPG-PF3_zpscb3283c9.jpg&hash=656a822ea77efd8c67391d8e2ec83b34659ff020)
your a top modder Ed, you end up with better games than all of us without the mods :(
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 12:18:10 PM
your a top modder Ed, you end up with better games than all of us without the mods :(
"We" all do. I share them :)
Some are here ;)
https://tfe4.wordpress.com/graphics-and-sound-mods/pacific-war/
Quote from: Richie61 on February 29, 2016, 12:36:52 PM
Quote from: gameleaper on February 29, 2016, 12:18:10 PM
your a top modder Ed, you end up with better games than all of us without the mods :(
"We" all do. I share them :)
Some are here ;)
https://tfe4.wordpress.com/graphics-and-sound-mods/pacific-war/
thx Ed,
Being in the Pacific War mood I've been lately I'm tempted to buy Squad Battles Pacific War now. :o
Quote from: bbmike on February 29, 2016, 02:32:52 PM
Being in the Pacific War mood I've been lately I'm tempted to buy Squad Battles Pacific War now. :o
You won't regret doing so. I have Pacific War and The Proud and the Few. Both are excellent. When you get tired of PTO stuff, you can install the Africa at War mod and play modern African conflicts. It's a great system.
too much coffee and programing for 24hrs
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwg1l-y33WTRb2ZDQkJNZEhOTnc/view?usp=sharing
quick scenario AFRICA CORPS , its not real event, but its just a go at a test of desert warfare using the plain vanilla game, there is hard-going through desert with Tanks and infantry with AT equipment.
Thank you all for your support guys, here is my going forward with the game message:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4034427
Quote from: BlackJaguar on March 01, 2016, 08:55:04 AM
Thank you all for your support guys, here is my going forward with the game message:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4034427
That's a good solid plan BJ. O0
Nice to see the transparency from the developer. Looking forward to seeing the project grow.
I wish so many other developers had your honesty and dedication Sir. O0
too much coffee and programing for 24hrs
too much coffee and programing for 24hrs
what?
what the hell happened here?
too much coffee and programing for 24hrs
gameleaper, I don't think you did anything wrong. You just posted your thoughts on the game. Please don't stop posting here. :coolsmiley:
Quote from: bbmike on March 02, 2016, 06:23:06 AM
gameleaper, I don't think you did anything wrong. You just posted your thoughts on the game. Please don't stop posting here. :coolsmiley:
+100
You are a great contributer to our forum, please don't stop. Reading all your posts I see nothing that you have done wrong or stupid.
Quote from: gameleaper on March 02, 2016, 06:12:15 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 02, 2016, 05:49:56 AM
what?
what the hell happened here?
A farewell, but the why is that the game was released and its ASL parts were not admitted as its core system, I was told this was unethical to not state it was based on someone elses work, and I had to agree Peter should of said he used ASL system. But I was telling everyone it was based on ASL, which I now see as a part secret , and I should of wink wink kept to myself, I feel I did anti-community stuff by telling people it was ASL system, then Peter Made a statement it was based off ASL. I felt this was partly myfault for being free with the fact is was ASL system, so I feel now that Ive let people down, so goodbye, I wont post again.
I also think you didn't do something wrong.
Check out this (french) review of Tigers on the Hunt : http://www.wargamer.fr/test-de-tigers-on-the-hunt/ done 29 februari.
This are the opening lines of the review:
O
MG ! Ils ont osé copier ASL !! Il aura fallu attendre presque trente ans pour voir arriver une adaptation – presque – fidèle à Advanced Squad Leader... La réalisation de Tigers on the Hunt est également – presque – aussi datée, et c'est donc sans réelles attentes que l'on découvre ce clone d'ASL, avec son interface poussiéreuse et son graphisme déprimant. Mais pour les fans, la magie opère... presque !As you can see they (and most other wargamers) immediately see the link with ASL. (By the way the score they give isn't good).
No one can blame you for disclosing something that is already in the open.
The only thing you've done anti-community Gameleaper is to assume you cannot speak freely here. We all do. That's why we're here. Don't give-up on us, or yourself, so easily.
too much coffee and programing for 24hrs
I'm a tad bit confused, but glad you are not leaving.
TOTH was always stated to have been based on ASL. It is not by any means a carbon copy and I think that is where some people are getting hung up on.
To put it a different way, all war boardgames are based on "Tactics", but it really doesn't enter into the picture.
I have to admit that I've been following this thread and wondering slightly about copyright issues. I have to confess that I don't know ASL ( :-[), but I would assume that a set of rules would be copyrighted, much like D&D rules aren't just generic.
I have to agree gameleaper that I can't see a single thing that you've done that's unethical. I don't think it's any secret that TotH is based on ASL. If it happens to be the case that some (or all) of the mechanics of the game are lifted right out of ASL, and that's been discovered by modders/players, disclosing that is in no way unethical behavior.
Whether or not there's a copyright issue there is something that the current ASL rights holder will have to decide to look into. Anyone though that suggests that you, or anyone else that discloses what you've discovered is unethical because they believe you might have revealed something that another party was trying to cover up is...nuts.
Is the game worth a look? What makes it different from all the other hex turn-based WWII games out there? I never played ASL, will I still enjoy it?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 02, 2016, 04:25:34 PM
Is the game worth a look? What makes it different from all the other hex turn-based WWII games out there? I never played ASL, will I still enjoy it?
I'm curious too. I've watched a couple of twitch plays and it does look interesting but I've never played ASL either so not sure if the game is good on it's own merits or just because it's ASL'ish.
I don't want to speak for Peter, though I guess I am, and hopefully he will correct me if I'm wrong in any of this, but Peter started this project a dozen years ago or so. He first mentioned it on the Gamesquad forums and I reached out to him (being an avid ASL player). He sent me an early build and asked that I not share it (which I never did). It *was* ASL. At this stage, he wanted to make an AI capable ASL game for him and few select friends to enjoy. I fell out touch with Peter until I saw that the project had been ongoing all this time and that Matrix was going to actually produce it. Obviously, once it was set to be commercialized, references to "ASL" had to be stripped and the appearance was changed. Also, some unique things were added while maintaining the basic "flow" of ASL. Is it "ASL"? No, it's not. It's close (closest to ASL Starter Kit truth be told) but it's not "ASL". However, if you've never played ASL but want somewhat of an idea of how ASL plays, then this is a great game to do that with. It's much closer to ASL than say Squad Battles.
During playtesting, I too asked if copyright was going to be an issue since it appears that some of the tables that ASL uses are incorporated- but the kicker is, you can't really verify that it's an exact clone because you never see them. Apparently Eric and folks at Matrix felt that the changes made were significant enough to avoid any kind of lawsuit. I've monitored CSW (both MMP folder and the ASL folders) and there's not been one mention of this game. I would think however that if this game were to raise the eyebrows of Hasborg, then VASL would of done so long ago...and MMP fully endorses VASL.
I missed Gameleaper's comments but if there were similar to mine here, then no way were they at all inappropriate in my opinion - how could they be if it was his opinion on the comparisons? Gameleaper...come back! :)
Quote from: WYBaugh on March 02, 2016, 04:50:35 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 02, 2016, 04:25:34 PM
Is the game worth a look? What makes it different from all the other hex turn-based WWII games out there? I never played ASL, will I still enjoy it?
I'm curious too. I've watched a couple of twitch plays and it does look interesting but I've never played ASL either so not sure if the game is good on it's own merits or just because it's ASL'ish.
The Phases make ASL unique. Old timers think it's the epitome of squad level simulation. But modern games
did away with it (or maybe because they want to differentiate). And computer games hardly need it.
Jomni's +1!
One of the great conceits at the heart of ASL (and LnL and a number of other board tactical games, but I digress) is the phase structure. It was needed back in the hoary mists of the past because IGO UGO games demand them to prevent overly gamey behavior. (It strikes me that all games are gamey by definition but, again, I digress.)
The coming of PC games has mooted them and, I increasingly believe, made them a ludatory appendix.
Now to go troll some ASL boards and see if things are getting grim...
There are a few squad based board games to use the same type of phases. Advanced Tobruk series uses a simulator system. Then Old School Tactical and Valor & Victory. Even Panzer GMT kind falls into these typical '70's phase. I think Panzer was done before Squad Leader.
Course we can all agree that Squad Leader was a better title than ASL :2funny:
ASL = Ain't Squad Leader :))
Quote from: Cyrano on March 02, 2016, 09:18:33 PM
The coming of PC games has mooted them and, I increasingly believe, made them a ludatory appendix.
Heh, heh. You said "ludatory." Heh...
...and to think I AVOIDED using nugatory to prevent this kind of juvenile behavior.
Cannot wait to see you gits in just a few months...
I'm a non-ASL player, i'm still on the fence. Its my preferred scale but im kind of worried about the flow of the game, seems like a lot of start and stop and a lot of clicks.
Quote from: -budd- on March 02, 2016, 10:07:33 PM
I'm a non-ASL player, i'm still on the fence. Its my preferred scale but im kind of worried about the flow of the game, seems like a lot of start and stop and a lot of clicks.
That is the beauty of ASL (except the clicks)
Quote from: jomni on March 02, 2016, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: -budd- on March 02, 2016, 10:07:33 PM
I'm a non-ASL player, i'm still on the fence. Its my preferred scale but im kind of worried about the flow of the game, seems like a lot of start and stop and a lot of clicks.
That is the beauty of ASL (except the clicks)
Agree! O0
I played ASL last night at a local Cafe/Game store. Had a blast and no computer game is going to replicate playing it face to face with a real opponent rolling real dice and (dare I say) working through the structured turn sequence. The interactive Movement Phase/First Fire/Subsequent First Fire/Final Protective Fire/Final Fire/Defensive Fire Phase is the heart of what makes ASL ASL (and not Squad Leader).
The closest to having that face to face ASL feeling in a computer game was in the early days of Combat Mission playing by email. The anticipation of getting that next log to see if your tank will spot that enemy tank that popped up just as the last turn ended was quite enjoyable.
I'm very happy for Peter and so glad that he got his labor of love published. For me however, it ranks low on the chances to play; I'll first go with ftf ASL (another game set for Saturday), or if not, then on VASL and then if I'm really dying to play *someone* in ASL but have no other opportunities, then I might look at playing Peter's game. Or, more likely, I'd fire up CMBB. That's just me and my opinions though folks - had to chime in here and I'm sure Brant doesn't care to see an "ASL is the greatest game evahhhh flame war brew up so sorry in advance if my opinions steer it in that direction.
I will agree with you on the face to face gaming. I would rather play Combat Commander, Panzer, Valor & Victory, just printed out Old School Tactical, Up Front with my twin boys than play a PC game.
Hell YEAH 1999 CMBO was flippin' sweet! Dial up e-mail! WOOT! :2funny: I didn't want to go to work the day after my floppy disc show up! Or maybe it was a CD, but I can't remember now :-X
I think Peter's game is cool, but I highly doubt it will replace ASL. Both can survive just fine together IMO. :)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 02, 2016, 04:25:34 PM
... will I still enjoy it?
I think you will enjoy it if you look at it as an ASL-ish boardgame 'simulator' (when counters mod are installed,
...playing against that buddy from the past, where it was difficult to find a free spot in both players RL schedules for to get a match running so it was a very rare event. activity which died down when the convenience of wargaming on the C64 showed up in the form of Kampfgruppe, Steel Panthers on the PC and culminated later in the first Close Combat and Combat Mission releases)
Its not a polished
modern game with each and any information of a unit dynamical always handy in a corner of the UI or popping up under the flowting cursor. for example you have to know and remember the movement point reaming.
like when looking at a board with counters
ASL-ish is a little bit like first 'programming' a group of units in your mind and then step by step execute that units complex behavior and interaction ...like testing a piece of software in single step mode in a robot programming development environment where you execute one line of code and see the results step by step. but when all the pieces come together and you would just see its i a flow... that robot suddenly act like the latest human Atlas robot from Boston Dynamics when kicked, or opening a door and hiking a snowy wood landscape
and so the behavior of the unit on the board the gameplay has a special unique feeling of simulation reality.
its not about killing units, or rushing to a victory location
its about temporarily braking a units morale, forcing them to root back a hex or two to a save postion, there some units may get their shit together again and come back, more likely with the help of a leader in the stack.
its hard to describe for me in a non native language, i am missing the poetic expression.
Sl/ASL-ish is like personally driving a original stagecoach from Phoenix to Tucson as the wagoner, hitch up the horses and all, then just hopping on a plane at PHX, or rushing down the I 10 in a rental ...you will reach Tuscon nevertheless but its a different journey
ignore me, I'm daft I think
Sigh. But you really need to avoid copyright issues or else this will not see the light of day.
Gameleaper, the intellectual property of Peter (and that is what the prize tag asked is for, where every potential customer can make up his mind personally if he want to pay that amount or not) is the inventing of an AI that you can actually play an ASL-ish game against. ...otherwise just go VASSAL for free, or even get the physical-world ASL starterkits
he invented that seasoned ASL buddy that never had time in the past and lived on the other side of the city, and that now guides you through all the phases, does all the hundreds of dice roles and cumbersome cumbersome table-searches and exception and rules lookups and what else in the background ...he just tells you the results like a gamemaster would in RPG.
for me its not a game, its an SL/ASL-buddy (gamemaster) simulator
Actually if it is simulated well, you don't need the tables. You just need to employ real-life tactics. There are no CRTs in real life.
Quote from: jomni on March 03, 2016, 04:31:22 AM
Actually if it is simulated well, you don't need the tables. You just need to employ real-life tactics. There are no CRTs in real life.
Ever played
Phoenix Command? There's a table for everything and every possible action that a thing or being can do is in a grid matrix of percentage chances and probabilities controlling whether something goes one way or the other. Crazy but fun shit. :idiot2:
And I want to get back to this comment by
Jomni:
QuoteThe Phases make ASL unique. Old timers think it's the epitome of squad level simulation. But modern games
did away with it (or maybe because they want to differentiate). And computer games hardly need it.
Maybe I'm just not understanding, but what turn-based game of any caliber, be it board or computer, doesn't use a turn/phase sequence to control the flow of the game? Perhaps by saying "computer games" you're saying "RTS computer games"? OR maybe you mean that in computer game versions, it's usually dumbed down to just a "move-fire" only sequence and the more complex 8+ phases per side thing doesn't fly with "modern" games? I'm just curious about this remark - not to be argumentative; just curious.
On
Tigers, I think
MikeGER nails it with this comment:
Quotefor me its not a game, its an SL/ASL-buddy (gamemaster) simulator
Quote from: GJK on March 03, 2016, 06:20:31 AM
Maybe I'm just not understanding, but what turn-based game of any caliber, be it board or computer, doesn't use a turn/phase sequence to control the flow of the game? Perhaps by saying "computer games" you're saying "RTS computer games"? OR maybe you mean that in computer game versions, it's usually dumbed down to just a "move-fire" only sequence and the more complex 8+ phases per side thing doesn't fly with "modern" games? I'm just curious about this remark - not to be argumentative; just curious.
I meant the specific ASL Phases and the sequence. Most now are only using move fire, then we have WEGO then RT for a better simulation of combat.
Ah, ok, got ya. Yeah, I can't think of any other recent computer wargames that use a detail SOP but then again, I haven't purchased or played very many over the recent years.
Well, I pulled the trigger and got it. Played a few custom scenarios, really enjoying the game so far.
gameleaper, I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't go back and remove the content of comments you make in the the thread. It makes it a lot harder to follow what's going on and kind of kills the point of a forum.
^+1
You can freely trust and stand by what you've posted earlier. Even if you disagree with it now there is no harm done.
I have missed all your original posts as well and it has made this thread read so difficult to the point I can't do anything else but raise my eyebrows and shrug. ;)
Anyone interested in playtesting a scenario I am working on (its an old ASL Scenario conversion involving the British and Germans in Norway). Just need another set of eyes to run through it from both sides and make sure the AI is at least trying to obtain their objectives as well as from the player side. Its company+ size engagement, 8 1/2 turns.
Still tweaking counters to get that Squad Leader look :D
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-SL-61a_zps9kgfqksp.jpg&hash=a440906214e0d2fee0d5f0d07495bbadb5ac46c5)
What would be ideal for markers in a game like this would be to shrink them small and have them only in one corner of the unit they're covering. The PC game LnL:Heroes of Stalingrad does this and so do the Vassal versions of some war games, like Simonitch's The US Civil War.
I hate having the units completely covered as happens in ASL. I'm in the process of painting up a lot of small tile spacers (bags of 250-300 available very cheap at any hardware store) into various colors to use as markers. I'm starting with 20 spacers per color and have 4 colors so far, with 3 more ready for priming. As a bonus, they can be used unobtrusively as markers for just about any war game. Forex, blue and gray ones can be entrenchment or control markers for any number of ACW games; My yellow and red ones are going to be low supply and out of supply indicators for Unconditional Surrender: Europe.
believe the ASL mod has the option for small marker
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/26598/D2512FCF2D8D4A3785DFDC5A07EAF3E1.jpg
Quote from: Richie61 on March 08, 2016, 09:13:00 AM
Still tweaking counters to get that Squad Leader look :D
nice ! :D O0 ....do you see a chance to give them a little 3 dimensional counter-pieces appearance?
its really a pity that the game was not planed with a higher resolution (less rows and columns,) for a little bit bigger counters and a zoom in/out function in mind.
Quote from: Hot lead and dirty talk! on March 08, 2016, 11:14:38 AM
believe the ASL mod has the option for small marker
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/upfiles/26598/D2512FCF2D8D4A3785DFDC5A07EAF3E1.jpg
Not sure. Someone took my mod and added different smaller images without even asking me if it was ok to even use it or modified it :coolsmiley:
Made new smaller text boxes. WIP so far.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-61d_zps9lfg72ls.jpg&hash=ed538cec5bc4fcadd498658358857c61f33fb08d)
JMass gave me permission to use his VASL terrain in version 2 of the "Squad Leader" mod :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi738.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx28%2FRichie61leader%2FTotH-SL-VASL-T_zpseafb6v2r.jpg&hash=22d035f40938988781e3fe922cf700548320d9c9)
Got this game during the Matrix Easter 30% 0ff sale. Got the ASL mod (with the smaller markers) installed and working today....love it, brings back fond old memories of the board game. Awesome job by whoever made that mod....thanks!!
Bruce, kind of likes it. A bit.
http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2016/04/07/tigers-hunt-gets-tem-def-thats-aok/
I really want to like ToH. I loved ASL and was an early adopter of the both SL and ASL. But I also love my Palm Treo. And I moved on. I view ASL as poor approximation of combat and ToH a poor approximation of ASL. Its like a xerox of a xerox, that started out hard to read anyway. I gave up on boardgame and turn-based games below the operational level when CM and CC came out. There is just too much gaminess that makes me scratch my head. Like the constant fiddling with opportunity fire.
To me ToH is just about nostalgia. I used to be big into VASL, and still poke at it now and then. As a mostly solitaire player, I still think VASL is a better approximation of ASL than ToH.
New DLC with three long scenarios. Played the base game and it really seemed forcing a board game on to the PC just for the sake of doing it. I prefer VASL, even on solitaire.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4232524
Well they can't be a blatant copy of ASL due to licensing issues right?
i wish the allways all to spare developers time would have been invested into adding more of the user requested 'missing ASL features' then a large scenario DLC
smoke, hexside-features, multi-level building, etc
I get the impression that this wasn't something that Peter programmed but was a scenario pack that was put together. I think the download for it is like 2mb; crazy small. Adds nothing to the core game.
If you're ASL-curious and aren't afraid to play a human opponent, hit me up - I'd be happy to teach you on VASL.
Quote from: GJK on February 10, 2017, 06:43:12 AM
If you're ASL-curious and aren't afraid to play a human opponent, hit me up - I'd be happy to teach you on VASL.
GJK, THX for the kind offer! :) i come back to you when i feel that special hardcore ASL-itch get's me
Quote from: MikeGER on February 10, 2017, 07:47:16 AM
Quote from: GJK on February 10, 2017, 06:43:12 AM
If you're ASL-curious and aren't afraid to play a human opponent, hit me up - I'd be happy to teach you on VASL.
GJK, THX for the kind offer! :) i come back to you when i feel that special hardcore ASL-itch get's me
Absolutely. I've taught a number of new players- it's not all that daunting a thing when somebody teaches it to you.
Quote from: GJK on February 10, 2017, 06:43:12 AM
I get the impression that this wasn't something that Peter programmed but was a scenario pack that was put together. I think the download for it is like 2mb; crazy small. Adds nothing to the core game.
There were a few fixes and added (3) "Campaign games.
QuoteBug fixes:
• AFV Firing in Advancing Fire Segment that is still in Motion cannot acquire target
• Squad to Half-Squad casualty reduction now counts as a VP
QuoteAs the Campaign Game Scenario last for a while there are some differences from a normal scenario. This is to depict the possibility for a side to do some refit of their units during the night. The differences are that at the start of a new Day:
Broken and Broken+ units will Rally to normal status
Broken Weapons will be repaired
Broken Ordnance will be repaired
Immobilized vehicles will be mobile again
Off Board Artillery will be back to possible access again
AI any good? I read a review that trashed the release version AI.
Quote from: solops on February 11, 2017, 05:14:30 PM
AI any good? I read a review that trashed the release version AI.
Not at all for experienced ASL players but it may be somewhat of a challenge on the defense if ASL is new to you. To overcome the AI's shortcomings (for once you've mastered the game on 'normal' mode) you have the option of handicapping yourself in the form of getting totally random "Out of Command" markers dropped on your units meaning that they are basically useless for the turn. A totally silly compromise for the lacking AI but in fairness to the programmer, I can't imagine the difficulties in programming a decent AI for an "ASL-lite" type game.
Ideally, I think the better way to handle that is to bump up the OOB for the AI in scenarios if you choose the "hardest" level of play; add a squad (or two), bump up the 8-0 leaders to 9-1 leaders, or add a HMG in place of the MMG for example....not just randomly disable a number of the human players pieces.
Let's necro this for a bit.
Where does this game stand at this point?
I mainly ask because I could benefit from an AI that plays ASL somewhat proficiently; I don't consider myself an absolute noob anymore with ASL, but nevertheless still a beginner.
The YouTuber idjester was interviewed recently by The 2 Half Squads and the guy said that he could recommend TotH, because about 90% of the ASL rules are at work here and obviously it features an AI to play against as well as an ASL counter mod and a few hundred scenarios.
I thoroughly enjoy the game. In my opinion it's the closest thing out there to the old board game Advanced Squad Leader. I find it quite challenging, but then I am a tactically challenged gamer who finds all games of this ilk difficult to win.
Tigers on the Hunt: Normandy is out! And the base game gets a discount too!
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/2638/Tigers.on.the.Hunt.Normandy.is.out!.And.the.base.game.gets.a.discount.too!
Normandy, the second expansion of the acclaimed tactical wargame Tigers on the Hunt, is released!
Tigers on the Hunt: Normandy contains 2 Campaigns and 6 different battles, for a total of 8 challenging scenarios!
The scenarios feature many historical tactical situations from the Normandy Landing, ranging from the heroic deeds of the 6th Company C of 2nd Ranger Battalion at Pointe de la Percée, the British fighting at Le Hamel, Pegasus Bridge, and more!
Grab the game now!
To celebrate this important milestone, the base game and the Kursk DLC are getting a nice 50% discount!
Hurry up, the offer ends on Thursday 12th!
I still have the AI question. I have too many good games with lousy AIs that do not get played.
I've been holding off on this one for a long time. I'm concerned whether it will really capture and hold my interest, but I broke down with the sale...I also had an anniversary coupon that I used. I got the base game, Kursk and Normandy for $25. I figured, what the heck?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on July 06, 2018, 10:52:22 AM
I've been holding off on this one for a long time. I'm concerned whether it will really capture and hold my interest, but I broke down with the sale...I also had an anniversary coupon that I used. I got the base game, Kursk and Normandy for $25. I figured, what the heck?
FYI
There's also a couple hundred user made scenarios available in TOTH forums at Matrix.
I can't see myself buying a game like this without MP, but, JH, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Me too, need impr swoons.... likely will buy myself
I bought the original TOH and it interested me for about 10 minutes.
I just bought the PC version of Lock N Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, and find it is holding my interest. I've played both solo and multiplayer, and it actually taught me some good things about how to play the boardgame version better. I'm also finding the campaign in LnL challenging.
Imagine if MMP went the same route and did a decent PC port of the ASLSK that was as robust as LnL seems to be.
Frankly, I find VASL more interesting that Tigers on the Hunt.
VASL could be an alternative to TotH IF you own ASL.
"VASL is not a complete product by itself. You must own Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) in order to play. VASL does NOT incorporate the rules, scenarios, or components necessary for playing ASL. It is simply an interface, it is not the game."
Also, the lack of AI means a solo player must play both sides unless using the ASL solitaire rules.
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on July 06, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I bought the original TOH and it interested me for about 10 minutes.
I just bought the PC version of Lock N Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, and find it is holding my interest. I've played both solo and multiplayer, and it actually taught me some good things about how to play the boardgame version better. I'm also finding the campaign in LnL challenging.
Imagine if MMP went the same route and did a decent PC port of the ASLSK that was as robust as LnL seems to be.
Interesting....I play solo only and had the opposite experience; love Tigers on the Hunt but could never get far into Heroes of Stalingrad. "To each his own"
Quote from: Rayfer on July 07, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on July 06, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I bought the original TOH and it interested me for about 10 minutes.
I just bought the PC version of Lock N Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, and find it is holding my interest. I've played both solo and multiplayer, and it actually taught me some good things about how to play the boardgame version better. I'm also finding the campaign in LnL challenging.
Imagine if MMP went the same route and did a decent PC port of the ASLSK that was as robust as LnL seems to be.
Interesting....I play solo only and had the opposite experience; love Tigers on the Hunt but could never get far into Heroes of Stalingrad. "To each his own"
i wasn't crazy about stalingrad either. isnt that the one where they have crazy ending where zombies or robots or something like that gets added to the game?
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 07, 2018, 08:48:20 AM
Quote from: Rayfer on July 07, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on July 06, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I bought the original TOH and it interested me for about 10 minutes.
I just bought the PC version of Lock N Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, and find it is holding my interest. I've played both solo and multiplayer, and it actually taught me some good things about how to play the boardgame version better. I'm also finding the campaign in LnL challenging.
Imagine if MMP went the same route and did a decent PC port of the ASLSK that was as robust as LnL seems to be.
Interesting....I play solo only and had the opposite experience; love Tigers on the Hunt but could never get far into Heroes of Stalingrad. "To each his own"
i wasn't crazy about stalingrad either. isnt that the one where they have crazy ending where zombies or robots or something like that gets added to the game?
I don't have Stalingrad but I never heard anybody talk about zombies or robots in the game. I believe you may be thinking about Silent Storm.
Quote from: MC on July 07, 2018, 09:04:25 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on July 07, 2018, 08:48:20 AM
Quote from: Rayfer on July 07, 2018, 08:03:58 AM
Quote from: Michael Dorosh on July 06, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I bought the original TOH and it interested me for about 10 minutes.
I just bought the PC version of Lock N Load: Heroes of Stalingrad, and find it is holding my interest. I've played both solo and multiplayer, and it actually taught me some good things about how to play the boardgame version better. I'm also finding the campaign in LnL challenging.
Imagine if MMP went the same route and did a decent PC port of the ASLSK that was as robust as LnL seems to be.
Interesting....I play solo only and had the opposite experience; love Tigers on the Hunt but could never get far into Heroes of Stalingrad. "To each his own"
i wasn't crazy about stalingrad either. isnt that the one where they have crazy ending where zombies or robots or something like that gets added to the game?
I don't have Stalingrad but I never heard anybody talk about zombies or robots in the game. I believe you may be thinking about Silent Storm.
+1 I think you nailed it.
Oh, there were "robots" at the end of one of the Heroes of Stalingrad campaigns... think WWII Mechs. :D
'Panzerkleins' a la Silent Storm or something bigger?
I played for about 40 hours at release, but the AI was garbage. Has there been any improvement to the AI? I can't see buying an expansion and continuing to support the project if there haven't been any improvements to the Al. This is even more important considering that there is no multiplayer.