I strive for interesting thread titles. You might think that my relocation to Taiwan is done, and I am playing games again. Wrong.
I meant it literaly. I read Tom Clancy's "Read Storm Rising". It rekindled (no pun; although my wife does have a Kindle) my interest in all things naval.
I did install HCCE (Harpoon), H363 (Harpoon), and RSR on my laptop. But for now, I still have my desktop and have restored SC stock and SCXIIc/SCU (Sub Command), and DW stock and DW/LWAMI (Dangerous Waters). I even considered playing some AOD[DOS] (Aces of the Deep) and SHCE (Silent Hunter 1).
Well, mainly I've been playing DW/LWAMI. I bought it, but never really played, but instead played SCXIIc/SCU while waiting for patches/mods.
At the moment, I am having fun with it. There are definitely some notable improvements over SC. Two that immediately come to mind (other than more playable platforms) is active intercept crewman. Having to manually mark contacts in SC was a pain. The replay viewer now has a "skip to" feature. Watching a 6 hour SC replay at 16X took too much patience.
There are some really run and interesting things about these games. FOW in many wargames is almost something added after the fact. In Sub games (WWII and modern), FOW is given underpinning the whole experience. The aspect of stealithy hunting and then attempting to get away alive is always exhilarating.
One thing which I have always found fascinating in SC/DW is the whole issue of situational awareness. Much of what you will want to do will be done at the TMA (target motion analysis) Station. For the uninitiated, this involves taking multiple sensor bearings of a contact over time and deducing the course, range, and speed. (all important aspects in an engagement) You will be solving a system of simultaneous equations graphically along with possible other hints.
This gets really challenging when the target is uncooperative and will not maintain a constant course and speed. I "lead LOS" (both your sub and the target are moving in the same direction) all of the following immediately looks the same based on simply observing SONAR lines of bearing: target slows, target turns left, and target turns right. Why? Well, all decrease the target's speed relative to you by compressing the lines of bearing.
Of course, it gets even more interesting, once everyone starts shooting. The SONAR display becomes a mess, TMA becomes very confusing, and finally your SONAR may simply wash out as you decide to run for your life!
My major issue with SC/DW has been the complexity of the scenario editor. It is so complex that missions often have logic bugs or you just cannot figure out how to win them. Compared to AOD and SHCE, your goals are simple; sink tonnage and escape/evade.
For example, I have been playing DW's Kilo Demo Mission. The goal is to sink and escort cargo ship. However, the escort and cargo ship has been created as a group with the escort being the lead. So, if the escort detects your sub and prosecutes it, the cargo ship will follow it into the attack. One would expect the cargo ship to remain on course or attempt to open the distance while the escort protects it. Another interesting aspect of this formulation is if you kill the cargo ship without being detected, the escort will sail merrily along as opposed to begin an area search. (Now, more reasonable behaviors are certainly possible, but additional scenario coding is required.) So, this is my main criticism with the SC/DW system, its complexity makes for some great possibilities and equally great disappointments. Hard coded ship behavior found in AOD and SHCE simply works ... it's believable and makes sense.
Dive, dive, dive !!!
I agree, Subsims can be exhilarating. I wish i had the patience to go thru SHCE again with the realism mod that was around for a long time. That one i played a lot. The one thing i do miss the most about SH1 is the well done TDC. I also have Destroyer Command with the fletcher mod installed and i fire it up every now and then. A few months ago i even installed Subsim's "Pacific Aces Mod" for SHII, but the Laser guided depth charges issue inherited by the SHII engine i almost forgot about, though i remember hacking the Config file to reduce depth charge accuracy (it worked, the destroyers would launch the DCs but explosion depth was always random).
i Still have Sub Command but never got around it too well.
In the meantime i always have installed both SHIII with GWX 3.0 mod and SHIV.
Quote from: Oche on August 23, 2012, 05:09:13 PM
I also have Destroyer Command with the fletcher mod installed and i fire it up every now and then.
Tell me more! All I can find is a Fletcher mod for SH2 itself, not DC.
Try this, there it is at the bottom of the DLs:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=cat&id=69
Thanks! There's something to be said for a surface sim that lets you see the surroundings. I have fond memories of the game Operation Spruance and the effort it took to dock the DD in Bahrain (or where ever it was). No doubt it was just a bunch of 16 color polygons but it gave a sense of immersion.
I love modern naval combat sims - I don't like age of sail type stuff - I prefer Harpoon missiles and Akula's. I was really hoping to see some more activity on the NWAC front. I've put hours and hours into the various versions of Harpoon, but its lost its lustre for me - Janes Fleet Command with the massive mods done by Chris and the others at Naval Warfare Simulations was just the cat's ass except for the CTD bug they couldn't remedy. I use to like flying Cobras in on smaller vessels and open up with rockets - it was just magic! ;)
SH2/PA mod was pure genious ... How they built a random campaign out of a linear system.
However, there was no resolving any engine bugs. The biggest was that escorts in a saved patrol would no longer engage you if the save game was loaded.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 23, 2012, 09:04:00 PM
SH2/PA mod was pure genious ... How they built a random campaign out of a linear system.
However, there was no resolving any engine bugs. The biggest was that escorts in a saved patrol would no longer engage you if the save game was loaded.
Yes, i don't know how they managed to make it random but that was major plus, SH2 ACES and PA mods really made it worthwhile the wait for SHIII.
.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 23, 2012, 02:46:09 PM
My major issue with SC/DW has been the complexity of the scenario editor. It is so complex that missions often have logic bugs or you just cannot figure out how to win them. Compared to AOD and SHCE, your goals are simple; sink tonnage and escape/evade.
One
excellent thing about the scenario editor in SC & DW is the canned script options that you can mix & match to achieve what you want without a bunch of work.
While the title in many of these dropdown script selections is pretty self-explanatory, not all are that way and you need some tips. I used to have a text doc with descriptiosn for many but alas, it's long gone. :-[
Yep, I used a script and a trigger yesterday to set my Kilo's battery to start at 10% charge.
Mike,
You ever make port in Keelung or Kaosheung?
No, I've never been to Taiwan. We did fly into Hong Kong once, stayed on deck for about 6 hours and then flew right back out, but that's as close to where you are as I've been. Well, I did 3 months in Okinawa, too.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread with hurricane stuff.
HK is one hour from Taiwan by commercial air.
Well, shoot me an email if you ever on leave in Taiwan.
I just thought of another thing that makes sub sims quite unique. In flights sims, tank sims, and FPS, death is pretty much instantaneous.
Death in a subsim is a much more protracted affair (more like torture actually).
In WWII subsims it can take hours to die as you repeatedly sprint and go silent while they depth charge you as your battery runs down. Or as minor damage slowly floods your compartments and drags you down below crush depth.
In SC/DW, death can still take a good 15 minutes from the time you are effectively dead until you are actually dead. Given that your top of the line fast attack sub can run for its life at 35-40KTS and the fish with your name on it can make 50-55KTS ... that leaves you plenty of time to run, turn, drop counter measures ... until that convergent pinging starts and shrinks down to the singularity of your death.
Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be bubble heads!
^^ Reminds me of all the hours I spent with Silent Service by MicroProse.
For me, submarine simulations began with WolfPack (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/wolfpack), The Hunt for Red October (http://www.mobygames.com/game/hunt-for-red-october_), and Silent Service II (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/silent-service-ii). Especially Silent Service II. The graphics in Aces of the Deep (http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/aces-of-the-deep) blew me away and were the best of any sub sim for several years. The Silent Hunter series (http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/silent-hunter-series) was a great one and I was an avid fan of it through Silent Hunter III (http://www.mobygames.com/game/silent-hunter-iii) (except for the StarForce DRM which was later removed).
I just did a very well executed Kilo Demo attack with DW/LWAMI. Sorry, but I don't have time for lots of screens.
In this mission, you must using a Kilo (diesel electric sub) sink an escorted cargo ship. There are neutrals around which may not be sunk. The FFG escort may NOT be sunk even if it engages you.
I say very well executed, because you can find a ton of Youtube videos ("Look, Ma, I did it!"), but they are cr*p. Why? Well, technically you get a MISSION COMPLETE if the cargo ship is killed. This is not that hard to do if you have experience with this type of game. Otherwise, concepts and working the stations could be a challenge in itself.
But the real challenge is to sink the cargo ship and live to tell about it. That's the rub.
Thoughts which come to mind on how to do that would be:
(1) Standoff and shoot
(2) Ready the tubes well before shooting to cut down on loud transients
(3) Launch over the shoulder to reduce the noise radiated
(4) Run the torpedo below top speed to delay its detection (and also increase its range)
I've tried, and I don't think #2 and #3 matter much.
Standoff and shoot is always a good idea. However, it should be noted that the 53-65K (wake homer) and the USET-80 (active/passive) torpedos have a maximum range of 10nm when launched at 80% top speed (around 40-45KTS). Your targets will be moving at around 18KTS and you will be anywhere from 10nm to 5nm when you launch depending on what you do.
The problems which arise with #1 and #4 are:
(1) To standoff far enough to delay that detection, you are going to be close to the maximum range of your weapon even when it is running slower and quieter. The weapon could well die before reaching the target.
(2) Being so far away with a weapon running at reduced speed will give the target considerably more time to evade. Both these weapons are smart weapons (not dumb WWII straight run fish), but they are not the fancy wire guided weapons which the SSNs carry. There will be no mid-course corrections.
(3) Sooner or later, the weapon will be detected by the FFG. When that happens, it acts as a big sign ... "Here I am! Come and get me!".
(4) If you look at the map, standing off leaves you with no where to evade. On two sides, you have knee deep water. On the other side, you have the FFG coming to you. On the last side, the water is again shallow and evasion is questionable.
So, what is the right thing to do in order to get the kill and evade? (Note: This would be much easier if your orders allowed you to kill the FFG. It would be trivial.)
Answer: Close with your target. Why?
(1) You will reduce the time the target has to escape. In any case, the launch will be detected.
(2) You can run the torpedo at top speed without having exhausted its fuel which will also get it there quicker.
(3) You just barely make it to a position where evasion becomes possible despite being detected.
Okay, so we see in terms of scoring the kill why closing is better than standing off. But how is this going to help us to get away?
(1) You have open water to the West to evade. It's far less tight than where we start.
(2) You will shoot on "lag LOS"; meaning you are going in the opposite direction of your targets. This is the best approach to putting distance between you and where the FFG will come looking for you.
How do we execute this strategy exactly?
(1) You fire an active USET-80 at the cargo ship. A passive or wake homer would only make sense if you were avoiding detection with it. But you are not. So, an active torpedo with the right range stands a much better chance of latching on to the target (the right target).
(2) Your orders say that you may not kill the FFG. But they say nothing about scaring the sh*t out of it. So, you fire a big warhead 53-65K at it. This is a wake homer. You set the RTE (run to enable) to the maximum range of the weapon. Effectively, it is going to run out of gas before it goes live. However, the FFG does not know that. The result of this will be to occupy the FFG. It is going run away for at least 4-5nm. And it will also need to cover that distance (time) on the way back.
(3) Upon launching, you go from your good tracking speed of 6KTS to 10KTS. Your SONAR will be compromised, but your goal is to displace from the point of launch. This is the fastest you can go without cavitating (making a lot of noise).
So, how did this work out? (need you even ask)
(1) The cargo ship is neatly killed.
(2) The FFG runs until the 53-65K gives up the ghost.
(3) The FFG then first heads to the sunk cargo ship, and then it heads towards the point of launch. It finds nothing in either location, and initiates a wider search. But by then are just beyond detection range and opening the distance.
(4) I ran for about about two hours West at 10KTS. At which point, I was quite safe and my battery was down to 60%.
The screen shot below shows everyone's track shortly after the two torpedos are launched. You'll notice that the FFG is turning into me as it detects the launch, but it will soon turn away when it realizes what it is headed its way. The cargo ship has yet to get a clue. By the time it does, it will be too late. The screenshot is from a save game with "Truth" on, but that is not the way I play.
I hope you enjoyed my first AAR in more than six months!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fsol1.jpg&hash=e7f1de7ddb35c38459949976fe28bb9f1c854ffe)
BTW, the white circle is an 8NM range circle on my boat. This is the maximum range of my weapons more or less at top speed.
It's tempting to go play some AOD or SHCE. But if I do, I will not get any time conning DW/LWAMI before my desktop goes off line.
After that, it is time to experience RSR on my laptop along with HCCE and H363. I never really got into Harpoon. I think part of the problem was just the vast collection of platforms and weapons that I am unfamiliar with.
Lastly, let me say, "*#*&* Apple!". Both AOD and SHCE would play beautifully on my iPad2 with DOSBOX, but Apple prohibited DOSBOX from the APP Store, and I will not jail break!
Oh, I am very tempted to go back out on patrol. I saw an excellent 4 hour UK documentary on YouTube the other day on the Atlantic War that hasn't ever run on USA cable.
I must get up from my PC now! Right now!!!
(I have over 1,200 screenshots hosted. Enjoy them, since they all go poof in 2 months.)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Faod001.jpg&hash=3bd16f6f9388a4751eabc295d6cd8d5d1164dbe9)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Faod003.jpg&hash=222bea8059d272867e439bd5199531017b6c4d70)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Faod006.jpg&hash=b40eee23993e737596a4f87061b3cf85721e433a)
I would have said that Kilo mission was impossible when you described it, but it never ocurred to me to shoot a "scare shot" at the FFG. That was brilliant!
Nice job.
Gotta agree with that. Nice way to think outside the box!
Quote from: Herman Hum on August 25, 2012, 01:53:05 PM
Gotta agree with that. Nice way to think outside the box!
The sign of a true wargamer - thinking outside the box. Very nice.
Good stuff Mark.
Back on dry land again.
I guess while my desktop is still available, I'll probably be playing some CMBB/CMAK. I guess I just don't have the patience for working through DW right now.
But one nice thing about older games ... is that you know you have the complete package. There is no complete ... more complete ... most complete ... ultimate complete edition to get and continuous mods and tweaks. DW and it's most comprehensive mod hasn't really been touched for four years ... this includes third party scenarios. So, like many of my older games, I have everything for it. It's more whether I have and want to invest the time than whether I run into CTDs or am waiting for a patch.
The other nice thing about old games. You know exactly what you are getting into.
I wonder what I'll do when I get a new PC. It seems everything has gone DRM, online being connected, small incremental pay for updates, and DLC/in game purchases.
Sad ... the hobby that has been so much part of my life may be coming to an end ... Oh, well ...
Nah...it's just another opportunity my friend. You get to keep the old stuff on the shiney new rig and try out some newer stuff too. There are a lot of games to choose from that came out in the last few years that are now complete too. gog.com is coming out with new DRM free games all the time and I also think you'd really enjoy one of the CMX2 games. Shock Force is as complete as it's ever going to be for example. Battlefront is developing the next modern combat game and CMSF is all community now. Great game and you get to use Bradleys, Tanks, several different NATO forces. With mods it'll look great on a new rig. Or go with one of the new WW2 CMX2 and live on the edge with the base game and future content pending. Try out one of the train sims and relax driving a train around. Sure the DRM sucks, but if you wait until the Holiday sales you can get a bunch of content on the cheap. Give a few bucks for hours of entertainment.
I may end up restoring all the sub stuff tomorrow morning. Even though I find myself frustrated with this stuff I keep ask myself how to do the current mission.
I am an akula in the port of San diego. They looking to sink me. They are an FFG and Helo.
I Can win by slipping out undetected or I can take out the FFG and Helo. The helo is by far the greater danger.
My best plan would be to silently evade until I could quickl kill the FFG and displace before the Helo arrives.
Avoiding the Helo is very much a matter of chance. The helo's MAD detector will catch a sub up to 900M down. The only way to achieve that situation is to travel the continental. However, that puts me in the detection range of the FFG.
I'm pretty sure that launch transients are broadcast for 360 degrees (in the game), so there's no need to fire over-the-shoulder unless you're doing so in preparation for evading in that direction. It's also not recommended if you are using wire-guided fish because there is code in the game to account for having the wire accidentally cut on big turns and that may also be tied to your heading compared to the torpedo's bearing.
I say do your best to sink the FFG from range - one less to worry about. And you can't evade the helo so you just gotta be ready on the gas pedal & countermeasure hotkeys while watching for a torpedo drop like a hawk. IIRC the countermeasure effectiveness was lowered with the LWAMI mod so they're not gonna be hitting ~75% effectiveness like vanilla nor will they make the torpedoes detonate near them because I'm pretty sure the modders talked about needing to lower that chance to zero long ago.
Actually, I made a mistake in that post. To avoid MAD, you have to get to 800' or so.
I wanted to SNEAK out, but to get you that deep, pushes you up against the FFG.
It would be easy to launch on the FFG immediately with a flying fish. With the helo (SC/SCX/DW/LWAMI), if you stay shallow enough, I believe, their air dropped fish don't work. Then, after the helo is out, you would need to go deep and break contact.
By the way, were you Nefarious Koel over at Subsim?
I have completed the SD Breakout mission in the Akula.
Status. You are detected in the hardbor. An FFG and helo is looking to sink you. You must put 15NM between yourself and SD without being detected. It is your option whether you kill your enemies.
My preferred approach was to get out by stealth. Although, I have short range SAMs which can be fired from the Sail, this does not want to really have a duel with an ASW helo. And, of course, the FFG will immediately know here I am. Again, if I sink the FFG, the helo will immediately know where I am.
The proper was to sink the FFG (forget the helo; it is a low value asset) is to put a lot of distance between me and it. Note, where it is located, and then fire an ASW missile down its bearing. As soon as lauching, go deep and run so that any aircraft vectored to my position will not find me at the launch site.
But getting back to the stealthy escape.
As noted yesterday, the ASW helo with its MAD/SAD detector is the biggest problem. I start in only a about one hundred feet of water. The Helo can detect a sub if it is traveling at about 200' almost down to 800' if it passes right over it.
So, the first thing I do is make turns for 10KTS while hugging the bottom until I can get to a depth of around 600'. At the same time, I am monitoring the FFG's pinging. It is generally doing a barrier patrol of my most likely path to escape.
I put a range circle on my boat. I am generally going to try to avoid maneuvering when the FFG breaks 5NM. Also, when it does, I am going to bottom my boat and just sit. When on the move, the most I will do is 5KTS. When I get in over 1,000' of water, I will deploy the TA as a further indication if the the FFG is closing.
I bottom about three times. The FFG never detects me. The helo is finally recovered. I parallel the FFG barrier patrol, and then exit the area.
I haven't done it yet (even though I have won), but I think I will sink it ASW missile for fun after this.
Some screenshots ...
My initial run out to deeper water.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw02.jpg&hash=3586b1b62d7e540d60837aa6f709c4cfb86b482b)
Bottoming the boat as I wait for the FFG to go by.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw01.jpg&hash=a950c0366cdaf1ba4800513b760a4ddc8986e245)
A TMA plot of the FFG based on its active sonar pinging.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw03.jpg&hash=24eb607bda6123cea53c7af293d37f9c8765cefb)
What the actual track of my sub and the FFG look like. The ASW helo has already been recovered.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw04.jpg&hash=9eb2545e031fd22515784f15f369512d24d5779f)
(duplicate)
I just ran the launch of the two SS-N-27ASM at the FFG. Well, I escaped without a problem, but the FFGs long range and close in defenses neutralized them. It then raced to the launch area and didn't find me.
What deploying MAD/SAD looks like.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw05.jpg&hash=1050f7cabbe6c02a275ea8673c00dd3f2d51bad0)
What a MAD/SAD hit looks like (really bad news for your sub). It not only means to them that they go you, but they are right on top of you!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw06.jpg&hash=56d25a15bf6a9dde4a3041b480e2b7696399554b)
BTW, I haven't tried the other platforms ... only the subs.
All in all, not a bad day for nuke boats.
I just finished a dynamic scenario which I had created to practice. You can pick up to any of one of four subs to control. There are up to four randomly generated surface ships and one Red Force sub.
The idea is to find and kill the Red Force sub before it does the same to you.
So, I chose a 688i and a Seawolf was generated. So, I was outclassed in terms of sensors, speed, and number/rate of countermeasures which I could deploy.
Well, I was looking for it. I was thinking one of the neutral surface craft was a POSSUB, when WHAM! TIW (torpedo in the water).
First, I tried one active sonar pulse to see if I could get an exact fixe on who launched it. (No reason not to do that. Normally, that gives your position away, but the shooter already knows where you are. So, a good active search can help to quickly level the playing field.) No joy! Then, I launched a snapshot down the bearing. Most likely he shot direct. At the very least, it will give him something do instead of just targetting you again. I fired off a couple of active decoys and rang a flank bell going deep. I set a course 45 degrees off the approaching fish which was opposite my previous direction.
(1) You want to change general drift, since you must assume that the fish was launched to lead you.
(2) You want to try to get out of the seeker detection cone. Simply going 90 degrees off the launch bearing is a mistake, since you want the decoys to be closer to the seeker head than your boat when they light up. Going 0 degrees (running straight away) is a mistake, since if the fish was launched, it will run through the decoys and then reacquire and catch you. 45 degrees gives the fish a chance to acquire the decoy and get distracted. By the time, it is through the distraction hopefully you have displaced out of the seeker cone. (Note: a fish without a lock up will S along looking for a target.)
If as soon as the fish is launched, you hear rapid pinging. Then, the shooter is close and it is unlikely that you are going to break lock. With or without decoys. Of course, in a game of long range hunting, shots are generally taken as soon as positive ID can be established. Otherwise, you risk not being the first to shoot.
So, there were actually two fish fired at me. The second right after I slowed having survived the first. I managed to dodge both of them. In mean time, my second snapshot got the Red Force Seawolf. Perhaps it failed to notice the me as along the same bearing was a noisy merchant. So, maybe my launch and torpedo's noise got drowned out by the fishing trawler.
Well, glad that I didn't pack this in yet. Almost did ...
Mark there is an AAR section that you can use here to keep your thoughts and actions so they don't get buried underneath all of the daily threads and chatter.
You do some fine write ups on your gaming exploits and the AAR section helps others to follow your on going action.
Good stuff btw.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 26, 2012, 12:52:14 PM
By the way, were you Nefarious Koel over at Subsim?
Yes. Had been hangin' there a long time, but not visited much in awhile.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 26, 2012, 05:47:44 PM
I just ran the launch of the two SS-N-27ASM at the FFG. Well, I escaped without a problem, but the FFGs long range and close in defenses neutralized them. It then raced to the launch area and didn't find me.
The AI ships' air defenses in DW will murderize your anti-ship missiles. I'd go so far as to say some part(s) of the stock air defense model is overpowerful. You generally have to let loose with a full tube load of ASMs to even have an inkling chance of getting one through. Firing at least five missiles, and preferably six or more depending on the class of warship, is recommended. In the case of a lone OH Perry frigate, with the one-armed bandit launcher, three missiles should probably end up in at least one hit but the vanilla game is more difficult here as I would often see 4 being shot down at once. I don't even think the old OHP's SM1 missiles were very useful against sea-skimming missiles at all anyway (being meant for higher altitude anti-air duty in those earlier versions) so the Phalanx gun is probably the only one likely to shoot one of those sea-skimming ASMs down and it's range is so short that it couldn't get but one or mayybe two on a stretch.
Although I think LWAMI probably reduced the AA overkill in this department, or they wanted to at least. Can't recall if it was a hard-coded thing.
Edit: I also recommend copying & pasting your AAR in the AAR section, since it'll probably be visible on the front page longer on that one. After you're done, of course. 8)
I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it. How I miss working those sensors. :) But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.
Quote from: Bison on August 26, 2012, 08:59:21 PM
Mark there is an AAR section that you can use here to keep your thoughts and actions so they don't get buried underneath all of the daily threads and chatter.
You do some fine write ups on your gaming exploits and the AAR section helps others to follow your on going action.
Good stuff btw.
Well, this won't become another 1830PC multi-year thread. I only have 4 weeks before my desktop goes offline. I have no idea what I'll be playing in the future. Also, after 4 weeks or so, my USA ISP account of 13 years will be going away which means any posted screenshots.
Quote from: jomni on August 27, 2012, 01:34:39 AM
I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it. How I miss working those sensors. :) But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.
The learning curve is quite large (concepts and systems). Similar to that of modern jet study sim. However, it can be very educational and pretty much for first person gaming the only options are Sub Command and Dangerous Waters. It's funny how with so many people playing digital games these days, for some subject matter, the options are incredibly limited. Short of buying SC/DW, your only other option is to enlist.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 27, 2012, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: jomni on August 27, 2012, 01:34:39 AM
I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it. How I miss working those sensors. :) But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.
The learning curve is quite large (concepts and systems). Similar to that of modern jet study sim. However, it can be very educational and pretty much for first person gaming the only options are Sub Command and Dangerous Waters. It's funny how with so many people playing digital games these days, for some subject matter, the options are incredibly limited. Short of buying SC/DW, your only other option is to enlist.
LOL
I recall seeing an old X-Play review on
Dangerous Waters that was joking about how massive the manual is (570pg), and how it's so difficult to learn that they may as well have joined the Navy.
Yes, the manual is 500+ pages. However, in reality it was closer 200+ pages. Much of the information across platforms was highly redundant. As each platform section was written as if that was the only platform the player was reading about. Although from a reference useability point of view, it was better to not split key UI information between common elements and platform specific elements.
The manual is pretty good compared to many hard core games. However, naval warfare basic concepts for gamers is probably harder to find than other genres like air and ground combat.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 28, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
However, naval warfare basic concepts for gamers is probably harder to find than other genres like air and ground combat.
Yeah. The same thing that prevents some people from "getting into" the Harpoon games, too. You kinda need some knowledge about hi-tech naval warfare and the systems used in it.
I just had an amazing under sea duel between myself (688i) and an Akula. You may ask, how do I know all of what follows. Well, there is a simple replay facility in the game which will show you what really happened versus what you thought was happening. Fights in nuke boats is a lot about intuition and faith, since while the action is in progress you'll never know for sure, but for the fact that you are not dead yet. Notice that this shoot out takes almost two hours to play out.
+0:22 - I made contact with an Akula 5NM South.
However, the Akula IDed me first.
+0:33 - the Akula let lose with ASW rockets which drop short range circling torpedoes.
I immediately shot off two active decoys shallow, turned to the NW rang a flank bell and went down to crush depth. I fired a spread of 3 fish down the launch bearing. However, the RTE (run to enable) was simply a guess and two short by a factor of three. Even if I had a solid solution on the Akula, given its range of almost 5NM I would have needed to wire guide to score a kill. But it gave the Akula something to do. Knowing that my SONAR would wash out as I ran for my life at 35KTS, I immediated cut the wire on Fish 1-3 and began reloading tubes.
Foretunately for me, the Akula did not have an accurate solution, its SUBROCs landed 3NM to the North. Two far to pick me up as they circled, but I still ran anyway for anyway for a good 15 minutes.
+0:48 - The Akula (now 10NM SE) was well aware that my fish had passed behind it slowed and began tracking me. It launched another spread of SUBROCs.
+0:51 - These SUBROCs landed about 2NM to my South. I immediately drop active decoys and pivoted to the NE and continued at flank. The SUBROCs began their harmless spinning. Again I fired a fish down what I thought was the Akula's bearing due South. Totally, incorrect. However, the launch provoked another volley of SUBROCs right down the bearing which the Akula detected my snapshot. Of course, its detection and my actual position was separated by 5NM. Again it wasn't even close. I drop active decoys, privoted again and ran to the NE. The Akula is now maybe 13NM to my SE. Its been moving fairly slow mostly and I have been opening range at Flank bell.
+1:06 - Active intercepts are quiet and I slow to a quiet 3KTS to see what is going on. The Akula is now 15NM to the SE and we have both lost contact. I slowly head SSE hoping to restablish contact. I don't put the Akula bow on, since it would be in my towed array's blind spot. The TA is my most sensitive sensor, and if I hope to have any chance of winning this engagement I will have to shot first. In the meantime, the Akula heads NW towards my last known position.
+1:33 - I have a NB (Narrow Band) contact to the SE. I don't have a full ID (finger print on the Akula), but given the location, the 50HZ low frequency electrical power and basic plant noise, I know I got it. The Akula is about 8NM away. I make sure that I get the Akula on DEMON. This shows the shaft rotation and will allow me to know precisely its speed. This will have two main usages. First, it tells you if have your fish on target, since you will see the screw turns jump very rapidly. Second, it allows you to wire guide your fish to an intercept even at very long range. You can use it with SONAR to build an incremental solution based on the initial base solution.
+1:40 - I launch a snapshot spread of two fish down the bearing with a 10 degree spread. The Akula is 8NM away. I have no idea where it is, but my deduction is 10NM and so I set the RTE.
+1:42 - Almost immediately the Akula detects my launch and deploys active counter measures. It turns ENE and runs at flank. I don't have a decent solution, but I know that I got the upper hand by watching DEMON and seeing it hit 35KTS. It's now totally defensive. I continue SSW at 8KTS hoping to build a better solution.
+1:47 - The Akula slows as my fish pass to 2-3NM behind it to the South. It launches its own fish. But I now have a solution on it accurate to about a 0.25NM. My fish are still wire guided and much closer than its war shot which is 10NM away. I wire guide my fish and turn them to the NE.
+1:49 - The Akula drops decoys and it is clear on DEMON that it is once again running scared. I am very close now.
+1:53 - Now with the very accurate solution and DEMON I am able to go to the TMA station every two minutes and incrementally adjust my solution. And by so doing, I either pre-enable the fish to turn them or I know that all is fine and they smell blood in the water. The Akula's fish is now 4NM away and tracking to pass behind me.
+1:55 - I am now convinced that my fish have the Akula for the final kill. It seems prudent now to cut the wire and reload Tubes #1 and #2 (15 minutes). Additionally, it's time to deploy countermeasures and go to Flank SE to make sure that the Akula's fish don't pick me up.
+2:00 - A loud explosion and the sound of crumpling bulk heads, the Akula heads down to the ocean floor never to surface again. It's fish is now 4NM behind me heading the wrong way, but I don't know that. I just know that nothing is tracking.
+2:15 - I slow from 35KTS to 6KTS. All is quiet and I secure from general quarters.
What a replay looks like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Emarkshot%2Ftempimages%2Fdw11.jpg&hash=504cb94c9632eb3f55decaaaa5fe35d46c319de8)
BTW, is anyone following this besides Mr. Harpoon, Herman Humm?
Don't forget me!
I enjoy AARs for games I like. I don't see many detailed ones for DW like this so I'm all ears. 8)
I've loaded up DW a couple times in the past year, but so many new games.. haven't put the time back into it yet.
EDIT: There's also the issue of the LWAMI mod messing up some of the vanilla missions & campaigns due to the different detection capabilities & other things. While I had given some of the old SC missions a once-over with fixes for the DWX mod in the past, there was a lot more work to do with the DW ones for LWAMI since each mission is basically multiple different controllable units - each with it's own whole mission in a different spot. It was more mission adjustments than I wanted to mess with. :-[
It's too bad that the www.subsim.com community for SC/DW is all but dead. Of course, then I can I post here as Captain Head Up His *SS, and everyone thinks I know what I am doing! :)
BTW, all my DW reports are with DW 1.04 and LWAMI 3.11.
Have you tried that Russian mod that puts all the extra playable boats in, and uses LWAMI as a base?
I d/l'd the multiple parts and got it installed but it kept crashing on me IIRC. :( Was very sad.
I know I could design some really great dynamic missions with the DW Editor given its power, but I would rather play than program. Sadly, a lot of the scenarios that are available are pure cr*p. Totally, ridiculous missions like risk your $1B sub to take out a low value target in 100ft of water where a sea gull could spot and sink you with a t*rd. And I and not just talking about community scenarios. Some of this nonsense is from Sonalysts. Then, of course, there are always the missions with logical bugs or no clear indication of how your are supposed to achieve them.
This is one of the things that have always kept me from enjoying what is a game with great mechanics, but often is a disappointing experience when actually playing.
That's RA? Effectively, the analog of SCXIIc/SCU? No, I haven't. LWAMI is fine for now. I am just a novice. Also, all the scenarios I collected from Subguru seem designed for DW 1.04 and/or LWAMI. Not Alfa Tau or RA.
What good is a cool mod if there is no content?
Quote from: MarkShot on August 28, 2012, 09:51:26 PM
That's RA? Effectively, the analog of SCXIIc/SCU? No, I haven't. LWAMI is fine for now. I am just a novice. Also, all the scenarios I collected from Subguru seem designed for DW 1.04 and/or LWAMI. Not Alfa Tau or RA.
What good is a cool mod if there is no content?
I supposed that if RA ran okay, I would possibly take the time to make a scenario or two or three. But it didn't for me. Crash-o-rama-matic. There's always the random scenario generator, but it's just pretty much the same ambush scenario over & over so it falls short of what we'd hoped it could come up with. Still, there's a fair amount of user-created scenarios out there for vanilla and LWAMI, and some of them are fun.
I still have as yet to master the Perry and have only kinda freewheeled a few scenarios with the ASW aircraft, doing my own makeshift buoy triangulation and manual attack runs with them (which seemed to work rather well actually).
Quote from: MarkShot on August 28, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
BTW, is anyone following this besides Mr. Harpoon, Herman Humm?
Yes. I was on the edge of my seat the entire time.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 28, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
BTW, is anyone following this besides Mr. Harpoon, Herman Hum?
I always like to know how a player thinks and what goes through his mind. I find all naval AARs worthwhile. :)
It's good stuff. Keep at it. makes me want to reinstall DW and get back into it. I only ever played with the P3. Took me ages just to get comfortable with that platform and and the sonar options. I never did get the hang of the TMA thingie.
I never figured out that Sum of Dot-Error method. (or something like that).
That sub duel is a very nice narrative just like a Tom Clancy book.
Naval combat, especially subs combat, is unique because there are hardly any visual cues due to the range and visibility constraints (underwater). It all boils down to sensors and how you read them. Air and ground combat rely on visual cues more often than other sensors. Air combat has radars to help you engage enemies beyond visual range but engagements usually still closes in to visual range.
Those SUBROCs are a really interesting weapon. Even at long range, they can be impossible to escape from due to their extreme speed of travel. But to be successful, they must be laid down in an accurate pattern. Otherwise, besides the scare factor, they pose little threat.
On the other hand, the long range wire guided torpedo (active homing) takes much longer to reach its target and at long range can be easily evaded. But the wire guiding means that you (assuming not preoccupied) can chase down the target until the seeker head latches on for the kill.
If you watched the above sub duel, you will see that my two fish were initially shot with a reasonable solution. The RTE was long, but it is a good bet that range to a target will open once the fish are detected as opposed to close (except when watching Hunt for Red October). Despite that the actual path to a kill followed a big sweeping arc to the North and then to the East from the initial shot to the SSW.
So, you have a conundrum with the SUBROC. An excellent long range weapon, but it requires a solid solution. However, the realities of combat are that you are often required to shoot before you have that perfect solution, because any further time to build it will cost you the advantage of the first shot.
As the SC/DW replay viewer leaves a lot to be desired, I had wanted to show you folks the sub tracks of this duel. With SHOW TRUTH = ON in the NAV Station, you can see tracks (course and relative speed).
I had done a SAVE GAME right before exiting. Sadly, I found out that SHOW TRUTH = ON along with SHOW PLATFORM HISTORY will not give me what I want, since once a platform is dead, it is removed from this level of reporting. So, if in the future I want such a memento, then a SAVE has to be created right before I or some other platform is killed. Needless to say, not always the easiest thing to time.
This reminds me of one of my history of video game pet peeves. In the early days, most sims had full mission VCRs. Towards the mid-1990s due to pressure on budgets and new need to incorporate MP via modem and LAN, VCR function in most games began to be dropped. PAW by MPS had one of the best VCRs I have ever seen. You can display the recording from almost any of the supported views and change perspective, you could save that choreographed collection as a recording. I miss this in games. Lack of top notch VCRs features makes it much harder to savor your victories and learn from your defeats.
Quote from: Oche on August 23, 2012, 09:26:42 PM
Quote from: MarkShot on August 23, 2012, 09:04:00 PM
SH2/PA mod was pure genious ... How they built a random campaign out of a linear system.
However, there was no resolving any engine bugs. The biggest was that escorts in a saved patrol would no longer engage you if the save game was loaded.
Yes, i don't know how they managed to make it random but that was major plus, SH2 ACES and PA mods really made it worthwhile the wait for SHIII.
Oh, I kind of missed this post.
Here is how it was done. SH2 used a relatively straight forward (but very big and tedious files) to create scenarios/campaign missions. A group of modders built an engine called Kriegstantz which provided a graphical UI to specify a mission. Beyond simply a graphic UI, it created a meta file (templates) which allowed randomness and variability in terms of how the final mission was generated for play.
The SH2/PA modders applied the same core code of Kriegstanz to their work. The stock SH2 campaign was just a set of linear missions. From the main menu of SH2/PA, they would run the core code of Kriegstanz which would create a series of missions based on very elaborate and randomly selected templates which would replace the stock linear campaign with a new linear campain. So, the result was linear and only partially random. However, everytime you started a new career from the main menu, it did this. Thus, they were able to take a non-dynamic pretty rigid system and turn into something which looked like a dynamic campaign.
It was pure modding genious. Sometimes, the things which people achieve without having access to the source code is simply amazing!
If not for basic engine bugs, I think I would still be playing SH2/PA today. Sadly, there were some real game killers.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 29, 2012, 10:27:44 AM
If not for basic engine bugs, I think I would still be playing SH2/PA today. Sadly, there were some real game killers.
Agreed.
I also greatly enjoyed the Destroyer vs sub games in multiplayer. Yet another mod was created to make the multiplayer reliably work since it would drop constantly in the stock games - excellent modding for those games back then.
I've yet to play any DW multiplayer, with multiple platforms. I never got terribly comfortable with many of the platforms' systems. It's too bad they didn't do so well on sales as to create a newer engine'd sequel of DW, since the one they used was so old. I guess these sims with a massive learning curve just don't garner lots of sales. :-[
I've haven't done MP more than a decade now. And then, it was flight sims.
Many years ago Subsim.com started producing a hard copy Sub Almanac to generate funding for the site. (It was discontinued.) In the first edition, they had a piece by the project lead for SH3. In it he stated that early on, they decided to produce a product that was the graphical equivalent of a flight sim and that the acid test would be that the water must look like water. They definitely hit their mark.
I think that explains the financial success and rebirth of the SH franchise starting with SH3, and also explains the failure of SC and DW as commercial ventures. However, Sonalysts in many ways had much more to leverage than EA, since their core business was not digital entertainment and they could leverage their military code base and expertise. But perhaps that also accounted for a graphical experience which was more function than "wow!". Also, the military contracting culture of Sonalysts might have also done the SC/DW projects in. The business model of contract defense consulting regarding expense and revenue is vastly different from the consumer games market.
For me, I don't need that "wow!" in a sub sim. I still find many aspects of AOD and SH1 superior. I for the most part play SC/DW without ever looking at the 3D (my apology to all those modders that spent countless hours spiffing up platforms).
When I saw the SH1 demo in 96 (I think) I was completely blown away, my expectations were very high and ALL of them were met 100% when i got the game when it came out. Subsims have been my favorite sims and overall SH has been the one I've got the most entertainment out of it by far. Ever since I played "Sub Hunt" in the Intellivision I've been haunted by Subsims. Gato from Spectrum holobyte followed, then Silent Service, Silent Service II, 688 attack Sub, Wolf Pack, etc.
I think the only issue I had with SH1 was the extremely high number of contacts. If you read actual patrol reports, you'll find that targets were never so readily available. In SH1, you are practically tripping over them.
In AOD, it can take a fair amount of patrolling to find a convoy.
Of course, I think this was a game play concession, because patrolling itself can get pretty boring.
By the way, someone was kind enough to email me over 400+ custom scenarios they have for SH1. If you are interested, send me a PM.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 29, 2012, 01:41:00 PM
By the way, someone was kind enough to email me over 400+ custom scenarios they have for SH1. If you are interested, send me a PM.
That's a lot of scenarios :o, very nice. How do you play SH and AOD? thru Dosbox or other DOS emulator?.
DOSBOX but I haven't played either in a while.
By the way...for nostalgia...Silent Hunter related.
http://www.valoratsea.com/main.htm
Yes, I made an offline copy of all that material years ago. The site used to be called, "The Battle Below".
Yeah, i actually remembered it like that way too, that's how i found it, battlebelow.com...the webpage had a Gato class in the center with a white background and the Klaxon alarm ringing ;D
Nefaro,
I fear I will never get an answer over at Subsim as it is pretty dead. Maybe you know:
Quote
I knew that torpedos in SC when set to run below their maximum speed, they still accelerate to their maximum speed when they enable.
However, in DW, they never accelerate. Why is that?
Thanks.
It doesn't make sense to me (unless that is how torpedos really work). Since you may want to do a long range shot and conserve fuel, but what if the ultimate target is something like an Alfa. At top speed, the weapon will only have a meager 10KTS on him.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 30, 2012, 12:22:13 AM
Nefaro,
I fear I will never get an answer over at Subsim as it is pretty dead. Maybe you know:
Quote
I knew that torpedos in SC when set to run below their maximum speed, they still accelerate to their maximum speed when they enable.
However, in DW, they never accelerate. Why is that?
Thanks.
The torpedoes in DW
should accelerate to max speed after they hit their enable point.
However, they may have adjusted the commands in LWAMI. I know that some of the weapon behaviors were modified and there should be a ReadMe somewhere on what was changed along with how to do some new stuff. Have you looked at that file?
I recall various stuff about the button combo to push in order to select what kind of post-enable search pattern to do and things of that nature. So this is probably what's going on.
The stock DW fish to not accelerate at RTE.
I've looked and I cannot find anything. I do find this as the forum:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=89340
Also, I looked in the doctrine language which appears to be testing for multiple tests, but it has zero impact as far as I can tell. I don't see anyway to use advanced features of wire controlled torpedos.
Help!
According to LWAMI 3.11, the only speed controllable object is the UUV.
Hrmm.
I seem to recall something about preset speeds. Like if it was set below a certain speed (40kts?) on pre-enable, then it would only accelerate to 40kts (in that case) after enable, and any preset higher than 40kts would make it go max after enable.
But perhaps I'm just mixing SCX and DW memories?
I dunno why they would remove that from the engine for DW. Could've sworn I'd seen mine speed up after enable in DW, too. :o
No, I stayed up last night and tested SC/SCXIIc-SCU and DW and DW/LWAMI-311. I also read various doctrine files. So, I am pretty sure of this, but then I did my testing with low speed fish at like 25KTS. Perhaps, 40KTS is the cutoff.
I tried the whole multiple click on the enable button as well, but saw no change. Again maybe that was related to the 40KTS cutoff, but it isn't anywhere in the LWAMI 311 manual.
In any case, I just finished archiving all four installations back to the file server. I don't have anytime for this stuff as we head into September.
It was interesting browsing through the doctrine files.
Over the years, people have complained that Sonalysts did not make SC and DW mod friendly; even threatening legal action if additional playable platforms were added.
However, you have to say that when it came to a lot of the guts of game play, it was much more open than many games. In most games, you can tweak static values, but not totally rewrite the underlying AI behavior. The ability to edit the doctrine files was pretty fantastic.
Although the modders mainly went for better AI behavior, you could have done quite a number of things. You could have implemented AI challenge levels for the game. You could have implemented random captain personalities for AI platforms and various tactics. For example, captains that favored standing off and using ranged weapons as opposed to captains that prefered a slow stealthy approach with a high probability of kill shot in your face.
I remember one of the biggest improvements I saw with SCX over SC was evasion behavior. In SC targets ran away in a straight line and unless on the edge of a weapons range, the kill was very likely. In SCX, they side step and extend. They would also slow after a time and if deemed no longer being tracked, they would turn back into the engagement at a stealthy speed.
D*M LOOK YOU GOT ME TALKING ABOUT IT!
But I am not going to reload them from the file server again. That ship has sailed. It's time to adjust to the reality of no time for learning curve and the games which I have on laptop and iPad for the next six months.
Quote from: MarkShot on August 30, 2012, 11:50:03 AM
D*M LOOK YOU GOT ME TALKING ABOUT IT!
But I am not going to reload them from the file server again. That ship has sailed. It's time to adjust to the reality of no time for learning curve and the games which I have on laptop and iPad for the next six months.
Heh. ;D
Back to
Angry Birds? :P
No angry birds. That's not me. Best iPad games I have are Shredder Chess, tChessPro, Osmos ... Virtual Pool HD would be great if the AI opponents were equal the PC version opponents, but they are brain dead.
On my laptop I have CM11 (chess), Fritz12 (chess) ... I also have RSR (which I have never played) and HCCE and H363 which I hardly played. I know that Herman has been expecting that sooner or later the Harpoon bug would bite me! :)
I'm surprised you haven't Harpoon'd yet. The urge usually hits me regularly, around the same time as wanting to play Dangerous Waters.
Just a quick message on your initial post Mark - Red Strom Rising is an excellent "Cold War" book. If you continue to read any other books of Tom Clancy's - I doubt you'd be disappointed. I particularly like Cardinal of the Kremlin.
I need to get back into reading fiction!
Nefaro,
I spent a lot of time looking at the MANUAL ENABLE/RTE ENABLE/PRE-ENABLE process in DW. Although I think something was kind of hosed in the DW EXE for internal doctrine entry points for ENABLE and PASSIVEENABLE when compared to the SC EXE ... I believe that while looking at some of the LWAMI beta code, I see the trick necessary to fix this torp speed problem. However, it would require some coding first with stock DW v1.04, and then, recoding LWAMI 3.11. This is because stock DW is much easier to work with as there is only single TORPEDO.TXT doctrine file. Whereas, LWAMI has quite a few. But, of course, once I nailed it, it is mainly cut and paste coding.
In any case, I don't have the time to work on this now. However, I have made notes. So, if I ever I reload DW down the road to play again, I will probably fix this first. At such time, I'll post somewhere. Ideally, that would be Subsim, but "fixing a major mod" might not be well received. So, maybe not.
Good hunting!
Good to know.
Considering that it's not in the vanilla game, itself, I'd think posting one version for vanilla and one for LWAMI in the same download would be just fine. Call it a 'Max Torp Enable Speed mod' or something (and not necessarily a fix) and that should avoid any prickly behavior.
It is in DW 1.04 as well. I think that's why it is in LWAMI 3.11. However, it is not in SC 1.08.
Load up DW and tell me if you see it or not.
---
I stopped frequenting Subsim when the GWX Team ran me out of town. I was asking such disturbing questions like how does an escort hear me doing 3KTS in the middle of a noisy convoy with WWII technology?
The most irritating thing. I've loaded up DW 1.04, but I just cannot seem to find the right code to do this.
I can the torp to accelerate when RTE or USER enabled, but I cannot make it fall back to the UI speed when the PRE-ENABLE button is clicked.
I don't see what I am doing wrong, but I think I will pack it in for now.
Did it ever slow back down after hitting Pre-Enable before? I don't recall if it did or not. Wouldn't be surprised if that only shut off the active seeker but kept chugging along. ???
It does with SC. I need to spend more time with the code. LWAMI had a beta proof of concept where it would drop to hardcoded 40KTS. But I would want to figure out how to pull the speed from the Fire Control Presets and restore that speed.
As much as I love to tinker I am so out of time.
I wonder why LWAMI gave up on this. Maybe it upset game balance too much. LWAMI greatly tweaked the torp SSP. Now, suppose you couLd run a torp out at a quiet 20KTS and then have it sprint forward at 55KTS. Maybe that gives you a devastating stealth attack. Standard DW did not have much of an SSP curve. Besides that you launch below the layer or at PD among all the wave noise.
I have been studying the beta doctrine and I think I now know how to detect a pre-enable click. This is, of course, necessary to getting the torp to slow. I already know how to get up to max speed when it enables.
This doctrine language is not documented anywhere. It is not the same "doctrine" language used by the scenario editor.
It would seem that a doctrine task is created with every sim object and initialized. There are no loops in the code. Therefore, there must be a master simulation loop re-entering each document code object every iteration. My guess is the granularity is one cycle per second of simulated time. Finally, it appears that a sim object can have for multiple concurrent tasks. For example, a torp can be running a homing task as it tracks toward a kill, but also running the main body task which would handle it being pre-enabled again. Finally, this is all further complicated by some entry points not being doctrine files, but instead hard coded into the EXE. Also, I believe some UI elements hard coded like the torp shutdown.
I really want to crack this nut by time is so tight!
;D
I have faith in you!
Besides, it would be cool to have the speed changes back in. 8)
I have reached a very important decision point.
Originally, I was trying to duplicate the behavior of SC/SCXIIc-SCU. In particular, that an enabled torp runs at max speed and a pre-enabled torp runs at preset speed.
I have decided that my DW and DW/LWAMI enhancement will simply cause an enabled torp to run at max speed. Hitting the pre-enable button will not reset the speed to the preset speed.
Why?
(1) After much experimentation I came to the conclusion that acceleration is trivial to implement (just two lines of code changes). Deceleration is much harder to implement (15-30 lines of code).
(2) For LWAMI unlike DW, there are perhaps 10 or more doctrines files which require modification.
(3) As any systems person will tell you, complex modifications to a system have a far greater chance of introducing bugs versus simple well understood changes.
Above are technical considerations, the following are game play considerations:
(4) The purpose of running out a torp below its top speed is either for stealth and/or to increase the range. At the point of ENABLE either via preset or UI button, it is assumed that the weapon is either in range to acquire the target and/or in range to be detected by a target which would initiate invasion. Thus, by definition, once the weapon is ENABLE, there is little reason to decelerate it. The main reason to PRE-ENABLE it is so that it can be readily steered (wire guided) to complete the kill.
(5) The only argument that can really be made for deceleration is simply for consistent behavior between Sub Command and Dangerous Waters.
I hope to have a mod completed today for both DW 1.04 and DW 1.04 + LWAMI 3.11.
The code to be added is as trivial as:
Quote
IF ( AcousticMode == 0 ) THEN {
PASSIVEENABLE
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Passive Enabled"
; MK Start - Speed fix
PreEnableSpeed = MaxSpd
; MK End - Speed fix
} ELSE {
ENABLE
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Active Enabled"
; MK Start - Speed fix
PreEnableSpeed = MaxSpd
; MK End - Speed fix
} ENDIF
Ah cool.
I never really saw the need for setting a torpedo back to pre-enable speed either, since it's already advertised that it's there. Unless set to passive mode only, anyway, but that has a universal max speed IIRC (or should).
Okay, I have been reviewing the LWAMI doctrine files.
In terms of torp speed enable/pre-enable, they are identical to stock DW.
There is one file "TorpedoADCAP_x.txt" which contains code similar to a beta which was release and implements what he calls "AdvTorpControl". I don't believe this doctrine file is actually bound to a weapon, but it maybe intended to substituted for the standard. It does play does include a hard coded max speed for a passive weapons.
I am going to load up DW/LWAMI and take a look at the Seawolf weapons. To see if there are two Adcaps.
This stuff is giving me headaches. I have to see how turn on the engine debugger and see where the log file is created. Aaargh!!!
Okay, I just found out how to open a debug window. This should help me to verify what code is running.
(did this without the debug window; just used old fashioned testing)
I have to go out now. I'll take a look at that tonight.
Nefaro,
I made and tested the doctrine file fixes for:
DW 1.04 - 2 files
LWAMI 3.11 (DW 1.04) - 6 files
PM me your email address and I'll send you a zip. BTW, I am not uploading this anyplace. I have no doubt someone will find fault with it, others will want more done, ... and really this is for me. I am not a modder and prefer to stay below the radar.
I was doing some TMA practice and comparing sensor effectiveness modeling in the Seawolf between SCXIIc-SCU and DW/LWAMI.
Basically, what you have is stable surface contact at about 35-40NM pick up very faintly on the TB-29 narrow band. The track was run over about 45 minutes (3 legs) achieving about a 90% range accuracy.
What we see here is how the SC engine always delivered good LOB even in a turn of the towed array. Whereas, the DW engine corrupts the LOB on the TA in a turn.
The first two are SC and the second two are DW. Notice, the dot stack corruption in DW at the start of each leg which you must simply ignore while doing TMA. (I failed to see what the AI autocrew would do with each of these as it would have been interesting. Generally, I do my own TMA on anything upon which I will actually shoot and then continue full manual while wire guiding.)
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I was reading a navy manual on TMA plotting. It said that TA LOB's from a turn should not be plotted, and that each leg should be plotted in a different color. That sounds sensible to me. :)
Quote from: MarkShot on September 03, 2012, 07:09:32 PM
I was reading a navy manual on TMA plotting. It said that TA LOB's from a turn should not be plotted, and that each leg should be plotted in a different color. That sounds sensible to me. :)
I hate to say it, but all these acronyms are starting to lose me. I know you guys are trying to keep interest in the game through AARs and such, but these are inside baseball and I'm not able to follow.
Maybe use this thread the discuss the details and then post a new one in the AAR section when you're doing your next one?
Yup, once you guys starting talking about SC and modding and whatnot, I stopped following.
TA = towed array
A passive SONAR array towed behind a ship. This gets it away from the ship's noise allowing it to be much more sensitive.
LOB = line of bearing
The bearing upon which sensor detects a contact. For passive SONAR, this is the direction the sound is coming from. Reported in SC and DW every even minute. This generates an LOB.
TMA = target motion analysis
A way via plots of passive LOBs to deduce contact course, range, and speed. As the modern sub usually avoids active emissions, this is how it builds a picture of the battle space. If you use active emissions, then a single radar sweep or active SONAR pulse will give you bearing and range. A second emission should give you course and speed. However, if you do that, then you have just thrown away your stealth advantage.
I hope that helps.
It does help. What are the mods for Sub Command and Dangerous Waters that you mentioned early on vs. the stock games?
Every one of those purple lines is a two minutes LOB on the TA sent from the SONAR station.
Your goal is to maneuver your sub and use the art of TMA as fast as possible to localize an enemy before he who does the same to you. Getting the first "accurate" shot is a huge advantage.
For SC 1.08: SCXIIc/SCU is the ultimate mod. It probably hasn't been updated since 2004. SCU allows you to play other subs beyond the original three. Sub Change Utility
For DW 1.04: LWAMI 3.11 it probably hasn't been updated since 2010/2011. There are a couple of competing mods, but this will play all the content out there. I don't see much content or documentation for the other couple of mods. Also, one of them is mainly being developed by Russian speakers which is one language I don't know.
For the two games, there are probably about 200-300 scenarios with various random elements available.
The scenario editor is very powerful and well documented, but to create anything of real value and sophistications requires serious work.
Like any game, only you will know if the subject matter is of interest. But if you want first person post WII naval play (not task force commander like Harpoon), then you don't have many options.
Yes, it helps, but to be honest I'm more interested in your AARs than the inside workings of these games. Make no mistake - I would *love* to be as knowledgeable about these games as you and to be able to play them. But I've got other things on my plate. I do look forward to the AAR and you guys are absolutely welcome and encouraged to discuss these types of things here. I'm afraid I won't be reading every word of the discussion.
But part of being able to enjoy an AAR is to understand the context like: attrition vs maneuver, defense in depth, open and closed terrain, combined arms, rolling up a line, ...
Of course, a good AAR should introduce concepts and illustrate them.
I was trying to showcase 1830PC. But for SC and DW, I read RSR and am just sharing my passing fling until I box my PC. I am very dissappointed that on subsim (a whole site dedicated to ...), you cannot even get anyone to respond to such a thread. So, I post here. At least, it is a novelty for most.
The World is enamored with graphics. I've actual turned off the 3D in these games. I am playing from the stations. If I was playing WWII sub sims, I wouldn't be in the 3D or watching from the scope. As soon as I fired, I would be headed deep and disengaging. Sound will tell you if you hit and sank your targets. Sticking around to admire your handiwork is a good way to get killed.
I noticed the differences in TMA between SC and DW, but never really checked it out. The dot stack was always so clean in SC but DW seemed to be a real pain in the butt to get lined up. At least now I know to ignore the LOBs during the turn (on the TA), but we already did that since it was the only sensible solution to that oddity in the first place. Now that we know that's how it's supposed to be displayed, I'm glad they put it in for reality purposes.
That makes me scratch my head in wonder as to why the torpedo speed changes were removed in the sequel. Doesn't make sense. Then again, I got the impression that Sonalysts still had a few things they wanted to clean up but had moved on to other (more lucrative?) military projects.
Sorry about all the Simspeak, guys. As Mark says, there hasn't been much talk about DW on the Subsim forum in awhile and Mark is finding oddities that I didn't know existed so it's kinda interesting (for me anyways) hearing about them.
I also created 2 sets of SONAR/TMA practice missions for SC and DW. It's all the same scenario with one contact at 5NM to 60NM in 5NM increments. So, you practice 45min distant solutions on faint TA NB contacts to 4 min solutions on near contacts using SPHERE and TA triangulation. The scenarios allow selecting any playable platform.
What I learned today is the three leg "Z" works well for trace contacts, but range accuracy is vastly increased by coming up from 5KTS to 12-15KTS. Probably reasonable, since no surface warship is going to hear you at 40NM. Otherwise, you are not going to hear any sub that far away. More likely you'll pick up a sub at 5-10NM. Anyway, you may have to shoot first and get the solution later.
I recall having issues actuallying seeing trace contacts on the sonar displays, back when I used a CRT years ago. I had to crank up the Gamma to get the faint lines to stand out. That's why they added a config file option for Gamma adjustment in an update later. It's not so bad since using an LCD because they're naturally brighter.
It can still be a pain, though, because the faint ones show as dark black lines (darker black than the background) as opposed to a brighter green one - at least initially. They also don't even show on the display at all with the most faint contacts & only mousing over the areas to see if you get a 'hit' will find them. But the AI can sure find those non-existant lines just fine (and fast too!). At least this gives the AI a bit of a leg-up against a player, I suppose.
Here is what I did. Works so much better than cranking up brightness. I use a utility which can adjust the brightness and many other things via a command line. I have a gaming keyboard with programmable keys. Unlike many games, for SC/DW, I only have 2 keys defined. One sets the LCD to super bright (light up the room) and the other back to the default.
So, I only boost brightness when I go over to the NB station in the 688/Seawolf, when scanning to spot faint and inverted frequency lines. I don't think brightness makes any difference in the Akula/Kilo NB station.
I am looking forward to giving my LWAMI mod a work out. Like ... pick up a quiet Kilo with just a faint NB trace. Work out the solution. Set a torp to run out with max RTE above the layer. Dive below the layer where my tracker loses the Kilo and fire the torp at a quiet 10KTS. Come back above the layer for the tracker to regain it. Run the torp as close as I can get. Then if close enough or it is detected (watching the Kilo on DEMON), enable the torp having it pop up above the layer and accelerate to 55KTS.
Gee ... it sounds so sexy, I am almost tempted to just make a little scenario to try it! :)
I see what you said about the effectiveness of the TSAMs. Blowing off all VLS tubes and nothing gets through. Sort of makes it useless that I can detect and establish the position of a SAG at 50NM when my standoff weapon is such a let down.
Also, I have been watching the LWAMI AI evade torpedo attacks. It is awfully effective. It looks to me that an accurately targeted single torp doesn't have good odds unless wire guided. As it steers into the active CM and by the time it blows through the target has side stepped. I need to try some new stuff.
(a) A spread of two active torps ... maybe with a mile between them. I used to for SC know the width of the seeker cone. Do you have any idea?
(b) An active torp followed by a passive maybe be about a two minutes. The first one will get duped, but the second follow the noise. (I haven't noticed LWAMI firing off passive decoys. I thought stock DW would fire one of each. Actually, myself I've been loading up on active CMs.)
Well, some more dueling.
A spread isn't working. They get sucked into the CMs despite the bracket. The conventional wisdom is to RTE at 75% range. But maybe that is where the problem lies. Maybe to RTE at range or 120% of range along with a spread. The idea is to not have the seeker head go active until after it has blown by the first set of CMs.
It really seems to be a conundrum of how to kill a sub with good sensors. You cannot get close enough to shorten the range without being fired upon first.
Although I remember that evasion was improved in SCXIIc, but I don't recall the CMs being that attractive or the evasion AI being that nimble. Subs seem very hard to kill with LWAMI even if you fire first. Of course, I haven't tried playing the Akula with Shkval or SUBROCs. I imagine after the first volley if the target survived you could close to Shkval range.
It's funny, I thought evasion might be harder in DW than SC, since the rate of turn is slower than SC. Also, you cannot take rudder control in DW, since the boat doesn't halt turning instantly on "rudder a midships".
---
I also have to add I don't understand with the whole SHOW TRUTH thing why they permit the player to see his torps via the FIRE CONTROL and NAV Stations when they are not wire guided. This is something which has always bugged me. You can deduce from the torp icon behavior if it is tracking. That's fine if on the wire, as I imagine that the real thing must send data back down the wire to FIRE CONTROL. However, you should have no idea other than the SONAR Station what your torps are doing if they are not on a wire. From SONAR, you can see if they're tracking if the waterfall track merges with the contact. Also, you can see a miss and you see a snake pattern on the waterfall as well.
I've been thinking about the DW messy TMA problem: It's those corrupted TA LOB lines that make TMA hard especially when trying for a 12-16 minute solution versus 45 minutes.
Okay, before starting the turn, you simply discard the tracker. Then, you reassign a tracker to the new leg after the TA has straightened out. This should eliminated corrupted LOB from TMA.
I am going to try this tomorrow.
Mark I have no idea what you are talking about, but I dig it when you get into a game.
But if you're using a towed array, how much longer does it take for the array to straighten out after you've made your turn?
Assuming fully extended ... it depends on your speed. It could take up to 6 minutes or 3 LOB.
Hi. I installed Dangerous waters on Steam. My problem is that the menus are flickering. How do I fix this?
(OS Windows 7 64 bit, Graphics card Nvidia GTX460)
Update: Fixed. Turning-off Antialiasing and Filtering fixed it.
Cool another bubble head!
I have to try out my tracker drop/assign trick and see if it makes TMA easier. I think it will, since when you only have a few lines its hard to separate out the garbage. Of course, it would be better to have a TRACKER-QUIET on/off switch in the SONAR Station. Since if you are making a turn when you have multiple contacts on the same bearing, it may be hard to reset the tracker. A prime example of that is when you just launched a torpedo down that same bearing.
I just tested my technique of discarding DW's TA tracker during a leg turn and I think it is ready for prime time.
I have a faint NB contact which you probably cannot even see here without monitor adjustments. But you can see I have a tracker assigned and an SNR (signal to noise ratio) of 1.
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I order up 12KTS to improve the solution.
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The first leg of the solution has been built.
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The first leg of the solution is complete. I drop the tracker from the SONAR NB Station. I order up a 135 degree zig, the second leg of the solution.
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My course has come around, and as you can see from the top waterfall display the TA has yet to straighten out. When it does, I will assign a tracker again and grab about 4 LOBs.
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About 30 minutes have gone by since I started this evolution. We are at the TMA Station, you will notice a very clean dot stack and solution. This may not affect accuracy here, but it could affect accuracy with a faint track of sub which you are trying to nail down in 15 minutes with just two legs.
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Here you see my solution marked versus the actual contact. I achieved a 100% accuracy in course and speed with a 95% accuracy in range. This was done in 30 minutes on a contact 35NM away.
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Now, it is off to go practice some random sub duels to improve my Fire Control engagement tactics!
My own playground (custom dynamic mission) for SC & DW.
You can take out any of the playable subs. Within 900 SQNM is randomly generated/located 4 merchants (so you cannot be sure of what you got at a distance and they also tend to obscure and distract at closer range) and 1 Red Force sub which is one of the playables in the game.
Then, it is find Red Force and kill him before he does the same to you. A simple but effective training area.
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Well, I just had an interesting dual with an Akula.
After a few merchant contacts, I finally picked it up.
I kept trying to do TMA on it, but all the while it was changing speed and course. No doubt trying to do the same on me.
It's interesting ... I think the choice of weapons may be somewhat randomized in LWAMI. Instead of trying to stand off, it closed. Despite my attempts at TMA, I should have paid more attention to that, since I could see on the ITA (30 minute) waterfall display that the bearing rate was accelerating ... a good indication that it was close and getting closer.
It closed and fire a Skhval (200KTS straight run torpedo with a max range of 6NM and a magnetic detonater). On the replay, it looked to me like it had gotten off a good shot. I am not sure why I survived ... perhaps my depth of 2,000' saved me.
There was some more running and exchanges with SUBROCs and torpedos.
Lessons learned:
(1) As soon as you think you have beaten the torpedo, you should slow and attempt to reacquire the target. How do you know you have beaten the torpedo? You have pinging that rapidly changes bearing astern ... typically meaning that the seeker went active, but was too far away to detect you. Or you have pinging which comes and goes at a very long interval and relatively weak ... this is a torpedo running in a circular pattern. If you heard it once astern and it didn't home, it is not going to.
(2) A spread is useful of 3 active torpedos. Given how close your target will be I would say to take a snapshot on the bearing with a spread of 10-15 degrees.
(3) Firing a passive torpedo seemed useless. Perhaps, a sub is just too quiet even at flank compared to a surface combatant.
(4) With more experience, I think some good range estimates will come by inference. Like: Is there a SPHERE contact? Do you have it on BB or only NB? If on NB, how many of the five harmonics modeled are you picking up? Bearing rate?
Things to try:
I think at the point you are ready to shoot at an advanced sub, you are going to give away your position. It's going to be fairly close (2-5NM). Generally, it is not going to be moving too fast. So, at that range, target speed does not matter ... it's effectively a static target.
Since you are about to announce your presence, I think it is time to go active right before shooting. That should permit an accurate range which should allow you to set the RTE beyond the first kick out of CMs. The only negative I can think regarding this approach is if you have helos or surface combatants hunting you as well. This might help bring them to you when they were originally unaware of your presence. Of course, realistic operational doctrine would probably say it would be bad to a sub and ASW assets working the same sector, since the chance of fracticide it great. (Of course, there is always the chance that the sub you are engaged with will come to PD and send a radio message reporting its contact. So, that could happen anyway.)
Well, I am off watch for the rest of today, I think.
Good read. I never really got comfortable with the TMA. It seems reasonably straightforward when you're trying to get a solution on something with a constant speed and bearing, but once they started turning on me, my solution went to feces and then I got sent to the bottom.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 04, 2012, 07:50:11 PM
I see what you said about the effectiveness of the TSAMs. Blowing off all VLS tubes and nothing gets through. Sort of makes it useless that I can detect and establish the position of a SAG at 50NM when my standoff weapon is such a let down.
Also, I have been watching the LWAMI AI evade torpedo attacks. It is awfully effective. It looks to me that an accurately targeted single torp doesn't have good odds unless wire guided. As it steers into the active CM and by the time it blows through the target has side stepped. I need to try some new stuff.
(a) A spread of two active torps ... maybe with a mile between them. I used to for SC know the width of the seeker cone. Do you have any idea?
(b) An active torp followed by a passive maybe be about a two minutes. The first one will get duped, but the second follow the noise. (I haven't noticed LWAMI firing off passive decoys. I thought stock DW would fire one of each. Actually, myself I've been loading up on active CMs.)
I stopped loading anti-ship missiles due to the crazy air defense modelling. If it's a big boat with a big capacity then I'll load two of them for finishing off an individual warship that's dead in the water (although even the crippled ones can still have crazy anti-air capability) or to kill a merchant from a long distance when I don't want to take the time to close for a halfway decent torpedo shot. Of course, if you have an LA-class boat, you get 'freebies' in your VLS tubes anyway, so loading lots is always good unless you have a land attack mission.
a) I think all the seeker cones are still 60 degrees wide. Or maybe it was 90? Damn.. I don't remember either. :-\
b) I get about a 2-to-1 ratio of Active to Passive decoys. I don't ever recall the AI firing a torpedo on the Passive Homing option unless, perhaps, it was forced to when firing one of those Russian Wake-Homer monsters that have no Active sonar on them. Even when you use a wake homer, the sucker often passes through the target's wake before turning back around to attack. It sometimes will pass through the wake more than once before going after it's surface target. Since wake homers won't work worth a damn against a sub, you don't have to worry about Passive homing much - unless LWAMI has the AI toss a Passive one at you on occasion. I don't recall them adding that, though.
It has seemed as if a passive decoy will make the AI think that it's you.. like the decoy is a sub 'simulator' type decoy. Pretty sure I've seen it fire on a Passive decoy before, but I can't guarantee those weren't just old shots finally arriving at where I used to be. *shrug* But for that reason, I still pop a passive off a short time after dropping an active - once things settle down and that passive decoy is still going it may just be drawing the AI's attention (after it has already fired on you) as if that's where it thinks you're at. Should be fairly easy to test that out in a controlled scenario.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on September 05, 2012, 04:47:11 PM
Good read. I never really got comfortable with the TMA. It seems reasonably straightforward when you're trying to get a solution on something with a constant speed and bearing, but once they started turning on me, my solution went to feces and then I got sent to the bottom.
I tended to just anchor the last BOL plot, with it's corresponding ruler mark, and turn from there then rinse & repeat until it's course straightened. I suppose just dropping the tracker and starting fresh would be fine ..... IF you could make a mark on the TMA screen where the last straight-running position was (before it turned) so that you could start fresh from that mark (and the appropriate ruler mark). So I just tend to deal with the terrible mess of lines and try to keep it plotted to the small vicinity I had it narrowed the target's location to before turning. Rt-clicking on the TMA display (IIRC) and selecting a shorter displayed time scale cleans up the older ones and helps quite a bit.
The problem with all the TMA work is that it requires a lot of attention when the fit hits the shan, and I often prefer to do other stuff manually, too, so my TMA plots can get quite behind. Too bad there was no active pause for you to catch up, when playing multiple stations. >:(
Are you talking about terminal TMA?
DEMON gives you the new speed and if the prior solution is correct, then obviously there must be continuity of the track. But now for the tough question ... How do you know if the contact turned left or right?
Quote from: MarkShot on September 05, 2012, 05:15:17 PM
Are you talking about terminal TMA?
DEMON gives you the new speed and if the prior solution is correct, then obviously there must be continuity of the track. But now for the tough question ... How do you know if the contact turned left or right?
The thing is.. you don't. But what I was trying to say about keeping the last good position on the TMA is this: If you drop a track, there's no way to keep the last known 'good' spot which helps cut down the time it takes to start up a new track due to having a decent estimation of where it was just a few minutes ago. The TMA window just flies off from where it was previously focused when you change tracks.. even when switching between your current active trackers it will place the window away from where you had it focused last time you used it, or for each tracker. That always annoyed the piss out of me having to zoom out, find the plot, move the view, zoom back in, every time. Wish it saved that stuff. What this does, when you drop a tracker is randomly shoot your TMA view off onto a different part of the map the next time you bring it up again.
So as opposed to starting fresh, I just find it a bit helpful knowing generally where to start, and by the time all the AI's turning is done (and no tracker updates by you during that time), the displayed location of your last solution will show the target way off ahead of where it actually is. I like to keep an estimated location around it's turn radius in that last spot, while it's turning, even if it's not exact. Am I making sense? ;D
I've been wondering about the utility of manual solutions as place holders in DW. Unlike drawing tools they will display in the Fire Control Station.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 05, 2012, 05:47:24 PM
I've been wondering about the utility of manual solutions as place holders in DW. Unlike drawing tools they will display in the Fire Control Station.
I'm always having to quick figure up my own manual solutions for estimating where the target will go once it detects my first torpedo. Lotsa guesstimation, but I wish there were more tools for use on both the targeting screen and the TMA plotter. :-[ The stock "enter & fire" solution in the game is okay for a first sneak attack but once the dancing starts, you gotta go manual and there just aren't tools to do so in the game (as there have been in the last few Silent Hunter games which is a huge plus for that series IMO).
There was this utility MOBO, a plotting board, with transparency that be overlaid on a window. So, if you play DW in a window that might work.
SH3 had cool plotting tools. However, the convoys didn't zig-zag or change course at sun down like AOD. Also, I liked how freighters could halt and accelerate faster than my car. Or did I mention the time I raised my scope in the middle of 5 escorts, and they shot each other to sh*t shooting at me.
:)
Quote from: MarkShot on September 05, 2012, 07:00:54 PM
SH3 had cool plotting tools. However, the convoys didn't zig-zag or change course at sun down like AOD. Also, I liked how freighters could halt and accelerate faster than my car. Or did I mention the time I raised my scope in the middle of 5 escorts, and they shot each other to sh*t shooting at me.
:)
I know the ones in SH4 zig-zag occasionally. At least, when I played with the Trigger Maru mod. Cool stuff. Can get quite tricky with all the shallow water and islands about, too.
I think any console button-pushing Naval Sim
requires the plotting tools of the SH series these days. Manual targetting is the shiz. I really wish we had those kinds of tools natively in DW. :-\
Well, I did get to ping in a quick duel today. It's not as useful as I though. I had weak contact on a Kilo at 10NM. When I pinged, I got an audible reflection enough to confirm range, but not enough to MARK a contact.
Does anyone know if SC/DW model reflection cross section ... Meaning if the contact is bow or stern on the reflection is less? The WWII sims often model this.
In this engagement I learned, that sometimes the BB ITA can tell you more about what a contact is doing than TMA. Before I shot, the target was slowly heading to cross in front of me from the side. After shooting the rapid curve on the ITA indicated that besides accelerating, he was turning towards my stern or his right. Somewhere in this thread I said wire guiding was tough, because often 3 maneuvers over 6 minutes can look exactly the same in TMA. But it's clear that BB ITA is unambiguous. Now, of course, what see on the BB ITA only shows "what", but not "where". However, if you take that over to TMA, your chances of getting the right "where" increase greatly.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 06, 2012, 10:35:04 PM
Well, I did get to ping in a quick duel today. It's not as useful as I though. I had weak contact on a Kilo at 10NM. When I pinged, I got an audible reflection enough to confirm range, but not enough to MARK a contact.
Active sonar isn't terribly helpful with just one or two pings. You still have to TMA the target over time to establish it's heading for a reliable torpedo shot and, of course, you just telegraphed your presence and direction so it won't be continuing straight on. I've only used Active sonar in cases where I'm already detected by enemy active sonar pings and need to find out their range so as to fine-tune the enable point on the torpedoes.
QuoteDoes anyone know if SC/DW model reflection cross section ... Meaning if the contact is bow or stern on the reflection is less? The WWII sims often model this.
Yes, it does. What's really cool is if you're right up close to another vessel, you can turn on your Hi-Freq sonar and look at the forward-facing sonar returns in the window above the periscope - you can see the outline of the vessel! 8) And yes, you'll get a weaker sonar return from a low aspect angle on active sonar. One of the things that the Sonalysts games does better than the Silent Hunter series is it's sonar modelling. Hell, Sonalysts create software for the military for that purpose so I'd expect it to be fairly good at it.
Also be aware that when using Active sonar, it's effective range can be notably lower than your passive sensors, depending on the target. That's pretty easy to figure out since the sound of your ping has to travel from your boat to your target and echo that whole distance
back to you with enough energy to register, while listening to someone's machinery sounds only has to travel that same distance once. Sure, the ping is louder so that makes up some of the disparity. Against some targets like subs with anechoic coatings, or low aspect, or surface noise, that powerful return echo can still be diminished enough to often give your Passive sensors the range advantage between the two.
QuoteIn this engagement I learned, that sometimes the BB ITA can tell you more about what a contact is doing than TMA. Before I shot, the target was slowly heading to cross in front of me from the side. After shooting the rapid curve on the ITA indicated that besides accelerating, he was turning towards my stern or his right. Somewhere in this thread I said wire guiding was tough, because often 3 maneuvers over 6 minutes can look exactly the same in TMA. But it's clear that BB ITA is unambiguous. Now, of course, what see on the BB ITA only shows "what", but not "where". However, if you take that over to TMA, your chances of getting the right "where" increase greatly.
Yes.. Broadband is the way to figure out what's currently going on if you have a loud enough signal to reliably show on it. It'll give you a quick look at target bearing changes & such so use that to figure out which way he's going kinda quickly. Remember "Jonesy" watching the BB waterfall display in HfRO when trying to figure out which way the sub he was tailing was turning? That's spot on. In that example, tailing close behind your contact heading in the same direction, you'd only have to look to see if the line turned left or right. Easy! ;D The other longer distance ones take a little visualization to see.
Unfortunately, the Russian sub(s) don't have a waterfall "history" display so it's not as easy - gotta watch it like a hawk for a bit, and that's even if you can make out the contact blip on the screen. The Russian sonar screens are a pain, especially if you're trying to drag a tracker designation (since they are very limited in number). Yet, I love to play the Akula in DW - it can be a challenge at times and the arsenal is quite varied. And they're beautiful boats to boot.
The only issue which I have had with the SONAR/layer modeling in SC/DW is that it is not well understood or explained anywhere. This sort of limits my effective use of it.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 07, 2012, 10:35:44 AM
The only issue which I have had with the SONAR/layer modeling in SC/DW is that it is not well understood or explained anywhere. This sort of limits my effective use of it.
It hits all the basics, AFAIK.
Such as the Thermal layer, varying water temperatures (Sound Speed Profiler) and layer depths. Extra surface noise washout the more shallow the specific sonar sensor is. Convergence zones. All that good wholesome stuff that makes detection an unsure and varied thing. 8)
Yes, but I have yet to see anywhere a solid treatment for utilization in the game. There is no shortage of books and articles full of math on sound propagation through sea water. But not something for the SC/DW gamer.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 07, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
Yes, but I have yet to see anywhere a solid treatment for utilization in the game. There is no shortage of books and articles full of math on sound propagation through sea water. But not something for the SC/DW gamer.
I don't think there is any salinity variation and the SSPs I've checked show very little change in various places on each individual scenario map. So those factors don't really change much, if that's any help.
Kinda sad since that would've been great to have.
Well, you pretty much set the environmental conditions statically in the scenario editor.
However, there should be some variations as you have maps that depths ranging from 100' to 3000'+. That would give you temperature, layer, surf, and bottom bounce issues.
I haven't player RSR yet, but I noticed that it models very localized SONAR conditions.
There aren't much in the way of variations in DW.
As you said, you set the conditions in the scenario editor. So, for example, the type of ocean bottom is universal on the whole scenario map, as is most everything regarding sonar. :-[
The SSP changes are very minor and I often wonder if it just randomly changes it (for the whole map) after you launch a temp probe or at specified time intervals. ::)
On a totally different note is there any way to break contact once an ASW Helo has found you?
One thing I used to enjoy is trying to break contact in AOD and SHCE. It mainly hinged on getting all the escorts in one quadrant, waiting until a noisy depth charging to turn and sprint into an empty quadrant, and finally, quietly creep away.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 07, 2012, 11:31:46 PM
On a totally different note is there any way to break contact once an ASW Helo has found you?
One thing I used to enjoy is trying to break contact in AOD and SHCE. It mainly hinged on getting all the escorts in one quadrant, waiting until a noisy depth charging to turn and sprint into an empty quadrant, and finally, quietly creep away.
Like that but much more difficult. :P
Really.. you can only go deep and do your best to creep out (or run out if you get a fish dropped on you). Part 2 is praying that he doesn't keep dropping buoys near you and gets a good fix.
I think the best way to extend is to (hopefully) decoy a torpedo well enough that it explodes ( only possible in Vanilla - not LWAMI, IIRC) and then boogie out of the immediate vicinity at high speed while the explosion washes out passive sonar for a short time. Of course, at high speed you won't be able to tell when the washout clears up by watching your sonar so that takes some timing & I don't recall how long sonar washout generally lasts from the BOOM. If the helos' sonobuoy loadouts and tactics are historical, then they should only have a very small amount of active buoys that are only used for more exact localization before the attack. So hopefully you're far enough away from both Passive & Active buoys, and slowed down, before the washout is done - a tall order.
Aircraft are still the bane of subs - even more so than WW2 sims.
It is very hard to maintain a track on a fast submarine. Granted, the sub is making more noise so you can hear it farther away. But when you consider that the helo/ac has to get in front of the sub, drop a sonobuoy (or dip), wait for it to deploy, then receive the info, decipher it, and make some tactical use of it...that whole process takes a while.
If you have a sub doing 20kt, it is covering a lot of ground during that time. How does the 3 minute rule work again? Something like, for every 3 minutes the sub travels its speed in yards times 100? So a 20kt sub is covering 2000 yards ever 3 minutes. If it takes a sub 5 minutes to reposition, drop a buoy, etc, the sub will be almost 3500 yards or so from datum. That's probably too far to get passive contact... Throw in a few hard turns and the whole tracking solution goes to shit pretty quickly.
A helo might be harder than a P-3 in this instance because the P-3 has to maintain 150kt or so to stay airborne and so repositioning can be challenging whereas the helo can hover. Then again, the helo probably isn't doing more than 80kt and then has to slow to hover, and it's carrying a third the buoy loadout of a P-3...
At any rate, if a helo has got you, stealth isn't going to help you much. Try a good long sprint with radical direction changes and just put a lot of ground between you and the datum. Let me know how that works for you.
Quote from: Toonces on September 08, 2012, 02:09:24 PM
But when you consider that the helo/ac has to get in front of the sub, drop a sonobuoy (or dip), wait for it to deploy, then receive the info, decipher it, and make some tactical use of it...that whole process takes a while.
This was always the downfall for ASW in Harpoon, the lack of any time delay in actions. Everything was always instantanneous. DW's time requirement to accelerate/decelerate, lower/raise dipping sonar, etc. is simply superb.
Deployment time for a buoy is huge. I googled it just to make sure the info isn't classified and one of the results that came up said it takes about 4 minutes for a buoy to deploy. Let's assume that's correct.
Extrapolating out how long it would take to plot where you want the buoy, drop it, deploy it, start getting info and then actually being able to extract a course and speed, easily that's a 6+ minute process. All that time the sub is cruising at 20kt opening datum. In 6 minutes he's 4000 yards away from where he was and still moving away...and this is assuming that you actually put the buoy on top of him. If he did a 90 degree course change you could be 5-6000 yards away from your new buoy and now you're looking at going lost contact.
At this point he's probably going to go active, if he hasn't already, so although you're making more noise going fast that really doesn't matter for DICASS or a dipper.
Speaking of buoys, can you say anything about the rate of failure in deployment (either mechanical or accidental)? In both DW and Harpoon, the buoys are 100% reliable. You drop and know that the buoys will work exactly as designed. I don't think that happens in real life and there should be problems with the deployment requiring re-deployment of a new one.
Can you speak to any of this with openly available sources? The only book ever mentioning this failure was "The War that Never Was", by Michael Palmer. It had one description of a P-3 needing to go back over a buoy line and replace the faulty buoys.
I don't know if it's classified, but I think it's fair to say that in any load of buoys there are likely to be a couple that fail for one reason or another. They're definitely not 100% reliable.
I had a good rewarding duel in a Seawolf with a Seawolf, DW/LWAMI, yesterday. What made it so rewarding was that I moved quickly to get the first shot off along with terminal TMA. I am learning to estimate sub contact distances mainly based on the nature of the contact held as opposed to using the TMA approach. Once I get a spread of three torps off, I did a very good job with DEMON, BB ITA, and incremental TMA to keep three torps wire guided to their target. I made about four adjustments to wire guide the torps after a maneuvering target and the torps getting pulled off target by CMs. For the most part, my terminal TMA was on the money.
That was DW/LWAMI, I fired up SC/SCXIIc for a similar duel. It seems clear to me that with DW/LWAMI you really need to wire guide to kill a sub with standard torpedoes. The main issue isn't so much sub evasion, but that the DW/LWAMI CMs seem much more effective in drawing off homing torpedoes. With DW/LWAMI, if the CM is between the homing torpedo and the target the torpedo will turn. Given the approach path of the torpedoes and the offset evasion of the target, even when the torpedoes get past the CMs, their chances of reacquisition is greatly diminished.
In summation, I would say that SC/SCXIIc is more heavily weighted towards offense, but DW/LWAMI is more heavily weighted to defense. This means that with SC/SCXIIc getting off the first shot without wire guiding is much more likely to achieve a kill. With DW/LWAMI, it is unlikely without wire guiding and terminal TMA. This also means that being shot at in DW/LWAMI, you have a much better chance of surviving.
Nefaro, do you have any observations on this? (mine are, of course, based on limited exposure)
---
BTW, I loaded up AOD and SHCE, but I realized that it has been so long since I played that I forgot the UI. I suppose I'll just stick with DW/LWAMI given the couple of weeks I have before I box my desktop.
Wow. Great contrast between game systems, Mark!
Mark is the brillant game reviewer who never got offically published.
Quote from: Bison on September 09, 2012, 11:17:23 AM
Mark is the brillant game reviewer who never got offically published.
Well, I'll publish him.
Actually, my gaming guides have traveled far and wide:
STK/F3 - Shoot to Kill/Falcon3 was my first and widely downloaded on Compuserve and AOL.
STK/EAW - Shoot to Kill/European Air War was first hosted by www.combatsim.com and later www.simhq.com. It still circulates among the prop head community.
HTTR & COTA Guides - They are still up on the Matrix Forums and available for PDF download. Quite a bit of my work was included in Matrix's Official HTTR Strategy Guide which is I think included now as part of the expansion pack for BFTB.
1830PC Guide - The material done at www.wargamer.com was turned into PDFs and is now hosted by Westpark Gamers (a German board gaming Web site).
It is true that I have never attempted to write a formal game review. Most of the above writing was informal. But I think that is part of what made it fun for me. Having to deliver something conforming to a standardized paradigm would seem too much like work as opposed to fun and games.
Lastly, although many have benefited from the above, perhaps it was I who benefited the most. In order to teach someone something, you must be able to break down and elucidate the concepts. Once you have done that, you have a better understanding of what works and why. At that point, you can further tweak your processes to improve the results. This is true in all human endeavors; not just games.
So, contrary to the popular belief among online flyers that sharing technique and teaching was virtual suicide, taking on and teaching students only made me that much better. Also, by divulging everything I knew to my students, I was forced to continuously innovate and improve. This kept me in the top 10% for F3 and EAW during my virtual careers with these games.
An example from my earlier work, but a number of the key principles would apply in other flight sims. This illustrates break down, concepts, and tweaking the process. Forgive the poor formatting resulting from MS Word cut&paste.
Quote
Topic: A Detailed Look at the Scissors on 08/23/05
The last update to STK/EAW was 4 ½ years ago. This will be the final update to STK/EAW. The material for this topic was written in mid-2001 and posted as part of a discourse I was trying to encourage among the online flying community to analyze various maneuvers. It was worthy of inclusion in STK/EAW, but only as I now close the guide has it finally made it to these pages.
{Please excuse the fact that the formatting is a little inconsistent as this material was pulled out from the HTML which I saved.}
##### SCISSORS 101 #####
INTRODUCTION
I was at 500' and in a hard flat turn doing 160mph with my flaps down. Over my right shoulder, I saw the bandit baring down on me. He was a 150' above me and 1,000' back pulling hard towards me doing 210mph. I could clearly see his nose coming around as he began to haul back on the stick to set up the tracking shot. His nose angle was becoming more and more acute as he transitioned from lag pursuit to lead pursuit.
We were in the end game; his end game. In the next 15 seconds, my plane would be shredded by his guns. I wanted to ask myself, "Why had it come to this?". "What did I do wrong?". But I thought better of it and realized that I still had a chance; I would have eternity to ponder my mistakes if it came to that.
I snap rolled to the left with full stick and rudder. I eased out of the roll before my wings were perpendicular with the ground and pulled as much back stick as I could without stalling. I watched the bandit behind me as his nose rapidly crossed my flight path, but somewhat out of plane. His guns spewing tracers and smoke, but I survived the first cross; he did not get me lined up.
Having had his kill snatched from him, he rolled to the left hard after me. I watch over my left shoulder for him to just about complete his roll. Again I snap rolled off to the right. This time he did not attempt a shot. I was now above him by 100' and quite slow doing 120mph. He was still doing a healthy 147mph. As my speed dropped off, I gradually reversed in the other direction as he attempted to get back in phase with my turn. This process repeated itself another two times.
It seemed that I was barely flying anymore. My speed had dropped to 105mph. I wasn't so much crossing anymore as performing very slow rolls right and left. He was no longer behind and off to one side. He was now somewhat below me still and we were crossing from side to side. Each cross brought us almost close enough to collide as he would pass so close that I could see where my bullets had previously impacted his plane.
I had been at this desperate struggle for 45 seconds. I now began to time my reversals to be slightly ahead of his. I was slowly beginning to gain ground as I began to see more and more of the back of his plane through each roll cycle. There it was; another four rolls and 40 seconds later, and I was now behind him.
He made one final reversal and entered into a flat turn. I let down from what little altitude advantage I had and just managed to get enough lead without stalling to take the shot. Squeeze. Bam! His tail blew into pieces. The fight was over! It would be a little longer before I got to ponder eternity.
BACKGROUND
By now if you have not guessed it, this posting is about the scissors. To be precise, I will discuss the horizontal scissors. As presented in the introduction, the scissors can be a strategy that can snatch you from the jaws of defeat.
ASSUMPTIONS
This presentation is made assuming dueling Spit9s. However, it can be applied to all planes and dissimilar engagements. However, the specific speeds and distances may vary. Also, if you think your measurements in metric, then my apologies for any difficulty you have in following this.
SCISSOR PRECONDITIONS
When should you scissor?
The scissor is best employed when the following two conditions have been met:
(1) Your opponent is within your turning circle by 50%. So, for example, given a Spit9, he would be 1,000-2,000' of your tail.
(2) He has a mild to moderate energy advantage. So, for example, given a Spit9, you are at 180mph and he is at 200-240mph.
Scissors may occur in a fight without a conscious effort to initiate them. This will generally happen in a two circle fight where the slower speed plane reverses its turn on each forward quarter pass.
Also, some players with very strong skills in scissors skill may intentionally put an opponent behind them and satisfy conditions #1 and #2, simply to get setup for the maneuver. (Of course, I would tend to eschew that as being too risk prone.)
What are some examples of poor choices to scissor?
(1) You have an a non-trivial energy advantage over your opponent. For example, suppose you are 100mph faster than your opponent who is behind you. You should just simply take the fight into the vertical where you will hold and advantage.
(2) You and your opponent are both maneuvering at high speed; 300mph or better. As we will see later, the essence of a good scissors involves being slow. If you are fast, than look to turn with your opponent and see if you can get him to make some basic E mistakes such that you can end up with a workable E advantage.
SOME BASIC CONCEPTS
Many players are familiar with the term corner speed. However, there are those whose understanding of its meaning is not sufficiently precise. It is often thought that corner speed is the speed at which your plane makes its best turn. We should realize that corner speed is the speed that your plane achieve its best turn rate (degrees/second). Corner speed is not the speed at which your plane performs its tightest turn (smallest radius).
Scissors are all about tight turns and it is important to not confuse corner speed with turn radius.
The tightest turn radius of a plane is always achieved at the lowest air speed that the plane can hold a turn without falling out of the air.
So, a Spit9 may be at corner speed at 200mph, but see its best turn radius at 120mph.
In a level one circle fight, the plane closest to corner speed will bring its nose around fastest and therefore out turn the other plane. If both planes are already below corner speed, than the faster plane depending on its advantage and position may well be able to set up a tracking shot for a kill. So, in general, one circle fights will favor the plane with an energy advantage.
In a level two circle fight, the plane with the tightest turn radius will generally achieve nose on first during forward quarter passes. The tightest turn generally gives the plane making it a tangent intersecting the other plane's circle at an earlier point in time. That tangent is a guns solution. So, in general, two circle fights will favor the plane with an energy disadvantage (the slower plane). Many players miss this important fact. This is why two circle fights may often precipitate a scissors, since the slower plane will keep reversing his turn.
Now, there are times in a one circle fight when the plane with the E advantage is approaching the tail of the E disadvantage plane with too sharp an angle to get a tracking shot (known as an overshoot). Thus, to take advantage of a superior turn rate it is also necessary to have adequate separation (room to turn). However, in a one circle fight, this is easily rectified by going up and opening separation between yourself and the other plane.
WHAT A SCISSORS DOES
Let's look at what a scissors accomplishes.
(1) A scissors denies your opponent the separation which he requires in order to capitalize on his superior turn rate. But unlike a simple break turn where the problem lasts for 3-7 seconds, in a scissors, the lack of satisfactory separation becomes a continuous and critical problem for the attacker.
I like to say that a scissors "jams up" the attacker. This mean that he ends up pressed so close to the defender that he cannot get space to move his nose for the shot. This is particularly true in the first few cycles.
(2) A scissors uses your opponent's speed (E) advantage against him. Unlike a break turn which may create a short-term overshoot, the scissors creates the potential for the faster plane to overshoot fractionally on every cycle. It is this fractional overshoot which has a cummulative effect on your opponent. Slowly you begin to reduce your angular disadvantage and move towards an angular advantage. You can often accomplish this with an opponent who is too savy to be caught by simple overshoot airshow techniques.
(3) A scissors initiates a very slow motion ballet. The opponent who will scissor with you must also become slow if he has any hope of staying with you. As such, a scissors that proceeds for more than 60 seconds will become a game of "slow chicken". (Meaning both players will struggle to see who can fly the slowest and without departing their plane.) This is, of course, ideal for those who have very good slow speed flying skills. A scissoring fight is often won when one of the players goes into a spin.
(4) The extreme slowness of the scissoring fight (this happens in the middle to late stages) makes it very hard for the attacker to have sufficient air speed to move his nose the few degrees he needs to line up a shot. There just isn't enough speed left to pull back on the stick for a shot. However, good players will learn how to compensate by letting their nose head in the right direction through anticipation as opposed to reactive corrective steering.
(5) Again related to the extreme slowness of a scissoring fight, the two players become locked into a deadly embrace. This means that they reach a situation which if either player exits the cycle of maneuvers, he will instantly loose position and become a target. Thus, the defender who has superior execution skill at scissors will have created a situation where the attacker is trapped into a gradually degrading situation which he cannot escape. (By the way, this is the basic premise behind most stall fighting techniques.)
WHAT MAKES A GOOD SCISSORS
As stated already, your opponent should be inside your turning circle with a moderate E advantage and you both should be flying at speeds below or around corner.
* Initiation *
You should initiate the scissors at the point that your opponent has the maximum angle off your tail in the one circle fight. Meaning you are making your tightest turn possible and have achieved your maximum displacement from his gun path. Any further delay will make the results of the first cross less abrupt and problematic for him than it could be.
A common mistake is to initiate the first roll/reversal when you have persisted in one circle fight for too long. This often results in you rolling your plane right in his gun path. You need to initiate scissors with some margin of safety before he has already achieved his tracking shot solution.
Another common mistake is to wait until you have hardly no turning circle left (he is 300' behind you). When he is so close behind, your initial criss cross will not be able to develop maximal displacement and angular problems for him.
Of course, initiating the scissors too soon when he is barely within your turning circle is another mistake (3000'). Despite his higher speed, he still has plenty of room to turn in and you will often be providing him with a very nice large cross section shot to take.
* Snap Roll *
The first few cycles will use snap rolls. From a flat turn in one direction, release back pressure on the stick. Then, apply full stick and rudder to the opposite side. This should give you a quick roll.
* Getting Slow *
As indicated, good scissors are slow. The preferred method to getting slow is by climbing. You can throttle chop, but remember that your goal is not simply to shake the other guy. You want a reversal by which you can kill him. Since he is starting with an E advantage, you are going to need every mph of E if you are going to be able to reverse and kill him.
Thus, your snap roll should not roll you 180 degrees. It should roll you 130-170 degrees. So, when you pull back on the stick you will be climbing. (Many are quite suprised to realize that despite the slowness of a scissor's fight that it is actually climbing.) Coming out of your roll, you will be in a gentle climb and slowing. Future rolls should give you a enough vertical component to remain relatively slow (90-115mph).
* Do Not Reverse Flat *
There is another reason to add some vertical component to your scissors. You don't want to simply roll and reverse flat. Reversing flat in the beginning of the scissoring fight will bring you directly across your opponent's nose. This opens you up to a snap shot opportunity. This is another common mistake player's make in scissoring fights which get them killed. The rule is do not pass in plane (geometric plane) with your opponent.
* More Slow Roll / Less Zig Zag *
As the scissor fight progresses into the mid and later stages, you will need to spend less time crossing and more time gently rolling your plane at a very slow speed. This is usually the time when your opponent is below and beginning to loose angles rapidly, or he has come up and gotten very slow with you waiting to see who will fall out of the sky. If your opponent is below and faster, than you are in exceedingly good shape by this point. Part of what it takes to perform a slow roll with a slight cross and stay above your opponent involves some counter intuitive use or your stick. After you come out of your roll, you may at times apply slight opposite stick while applying back stick. This will help keep your wings angled up and prevent you from sinking.
* Snap Forward View *
Use the snap forward view while making your rolls. This way can get the perfect amount of rotation. You will get reversed, but leave yourself with a little pitch up at the end of each roll.
* Timing *
Every time you see your opponent about to get in phase with you (one circle), you roll off in the opposite direction. As the fight progresses, you will begin to gain position and be slower. You stop flying reactively and instead proactively. This means that you will begin to beat him to the jump on roles. When that happens, you are close to the end of the scissoring fight. You will soon have achieved a reversal.
* Throttle Chopping (an alternative approach) *
As was seen, you need a speed (E) differential to initiate a scissors. Generally, things just happen to be like that. Otherwise, how did the other guy get to where he was in the first place? However, if your opponent is co-E with you and behind you, then you can create a speed (E) differential by chopping your throttle.
Generally, it is a good idea to run the scissors through a couple of cycles and get him focused on keeping in step with you before you chop the throttle. If you chop the throttle right from the start, it is often pretty obvious. So, first, get him too distracted trying to maneuver to notice the dropping of your air speed.
HOW TO PRACTICE
I often teach scissors and help others practice by doing the following drill.
* Set Up *
Do not merge at the launch of the game.
The target drops to 3,000' and cruises at 180-200mph.
The trainee approaches from his six and is allowed to close on his six.
The fight is on when the trainee breaks 1500' from the target's tail or opens fire; whichever comes first.
The target then initiates a scissoring fight.
The trainee should use guns and do his best to kill.
The target should achieve a scissoring reversal and then can simply break off and restart the exercise.
* Limitations *
This exercise is somewhat artificial.
- Scissoring fights rarely begin with the attacker being directly behind you.
- Scissoring fights rarely begin with the attacker creeping up your six with 3mph closure.
As such, it often happens that the target may need to throttle chop in order to generate some E differential.
However, those I have done this drill with have seemingly learned a lot about the principals behind scissors. This is the best way to learn anything. See it repetitively so that you see enough to draw conclusions and try things.
SCISSOR COUNTERS
Like all overshoot situations, the correct response to a scissors if you have an E advantage is to go up.
Throttle chopping is a very big mistake. At best, you may avoid a reversal and get caught into a one circle fight where you are stuck in lag pursuit. Thus, you went from having a tracking shot to pointlessly chasing the other guy around the sky. At worst, the other guy will get a reversal relatively quickly.
The correct approach is simply to go up and scissor above your opponent. Going up will get you to the slow speeds you need in order to match his tight turn radius. It will conserve your energy advantage. It will maintain separation so that you can continue to look for chances to turn your nose and get a shot. Also, you limit your vulnerability because you are too high for the other guy to raise his nose for a shot; remember you have the E advantage.
You will note that this section on countering is very short and one would think that to counter a scissors is trivial. It is not, since I have only seen a handful of players who are very good at neutralizing a well performed scissors.
CONCLUSION
As noted in another thread, a scissors is a progressive defensive maneuver. There need not be any element of surprise. One simply needs to perform it with superior execution in order to achieve the desired affect. The superior execution only needs to be incrementally better and not better by an order of magnitude. As long as your execution is better, you will ultimately prevail. Also, previously noted, the barrel roll also falls into this class of maneuver.
The implications of yesterday's SCXIIc vs LWAMI realization are reverberating.
Here is another one. Snapshot counter fire with a spread in SCXIIc has greater chance of killing the sub that fired on you with SCXIIc. With LWAMI, at best, it is more likely to give him something better to do than take a second shot while you run for your life. (It should be noted that with standard DW 1.04, torps explode when they meet CMs. As recommended by LWAMI, I've turned that off in the INI. But you can imagine how much more effective CMs would be, since not only would they get duped, but they would also self destruct.)
I think with three fish in the water, you can get an idea when a CM is in play. If they all suddenly turn hard towards something, it is a CM. Why? First, a sub they were tracking doesn't suddenly materialize. Second, the most dangerous subs are going to be running at 40KTS. A CM doesn't move. Therefore, the rate of closure on CM is about 3X that of a target sub, and this produces a much harder turn in by the torpedoes.
---
Why sub duel? It teachers fast detection, shooting, terminal TMA, and defense skills. The sub is supposed to be in the game and in real life your most dangerous opponent.
---
There was rule in dogfights. "Never fly straight and level for more than 30 seconds in the combat area" attributed to RAF pilot, "Sailor" Malan.
I think the DW equivalent is never maintain a steady speed for more than 10 minutes in water where a shooting enemy may be lurking. The AI shoots based on TMA. Turns and speed changes mess up his TMA. However, turns also mess up your TMA and detection with the TA. Speed changes are a good compromise. They achieve the same result while aiding your situational awareness.
Like in a dogfight without a wing man, you cannot easily clear your six. So, you never want anyone to simply saddle you up for a shot. In the sub battle space, you never know if you have been detected, tracked, and a solution is being worked on. Like having 50 cal rounds rip through your cockpit, "Conn|SONAR|Torpedo in the water bearing XXX" is how you will find out. You may not be able to prevent the attack, but you can spoil its accuracy.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 09:34:28 AM
In summation, I would say that SC/SCXIIc is more heavily weighted towards offense, but DW/LWAMI is more heavily weighted to defense. This means that with SC/SCXIIc getting off the first shot without wire guiding is much more likely to achieve a kill. With DW/LWAMI, it is unlikely without wire guiding and terminal TMA. This also means that being shot at in DW/LWAMI, you have a much better chance of surviving.
Nefaro, do you have any observations on this? (mine are, of course, based on limited exposure)
The countermeasure modelling is the difference. The LWAMI mod actually lowered the countermeasure effectiveness a fair amount, from stock DW. Hell, the countermeasures in stock DW could even cause the torpedo to explode quite often when it came near them. Which is more Hollywood style. But like I said LWAMI nerfed the cm effectiveness so what you were seeing isn't near as crazy as vanilla.
The thing is... that terminal turn-away by the torpedo that is approaching the target (whether it's a vessel or countermeasure it's after) is likely a counter-cm move. I've seen that terminal attack move a lot in DW, and I think it's so that it'll do a little loop out to the side of whatever it was homing on and come back in so that it can reacquire the first thing it pings on when it turns back toward the target. If you visualize that loop around, you can see that if the original target vessel dropped a decoy, and the torpedo was actually homing on that CM, then the loop out and reacquire should first find the sub that's now
ahead of it's decoy a short distance and thus negate that decoy. That torpedo loop also helps it attempt to get a side attack to help get it closer to a midship keel explosion for a kill too and I know that's definitely one reason for the torpedo maneuvering on attack.
In those "Loop Around" attacks, it also makes the decision on which way to go after dropping a CM even more difficult since the torpedo will sweep it's sonar like that when on final approach. :D
So, yes, decoys are much more effective in DW. I quite enjoy that, actually, as it makes the knife fights
very interesting (and tough!). But there is also evidentally torpedo counter-cm logic now too. SC's torpedo attacks were like golden bullets for the most part, and I've enjoyed the change; it's provided more fun IMO.
Nefaro,
You realize that you'll have to keep posting here in a few weeks when I pack up ... to keep subs alive at Grogheads. Or maybe I should bequeath this thread to Herman whose genome overlaps greatly with bubble heads.
I've been playing sub hunt now for 3.5 simulated hours and cannot find an enemy, but I have detected quite a few neutrals.
Sometimes, it's like looking for a sub in a hay stack!
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 04:42:15 PM
Nefaro,
You realize that you'll have to keep posting here in a few weeks when I pack up ... to keep subs alive at Grogheads. Or maybe I should bequeath this thread to Herman whose genome overlaps greatly with bubble heads.
I dunno, I think there's only a small handful of us who talk about it these days, and you're analysis of playing DW just brought out some of my old interests in modern sub-simming. Unfortunately there isn't much in the way to be had in that category, and I've not even played DW in a few years. That's not to say that I won't, of course, but I've not had much urge for awhile. :-\
Always here to answer Q's, however. :)
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 04:42:15 PM
Nefaro,
You realize that you'll have to keep posting here in a few weeks when I pack up ... to keep subs alive at Grogheads. Or maybe I should bequeath this thread to Herman whose genome overlaps greatly with bubble heads.
Where are you going?
Relocating to Taiwan.
He's only been talking about it for months! :D
That's what makes someone a great forum admin ... the ability to read every post without actually reading them. :)
Quote from: Staggerwing on September 09, 2012, 05:32:49 PM
He's only been talking about it for months! :D
Ah. For some reason I thought he had already located to Taiwan.
Mark, would it make sense if we hosted that info here for you? It would be a shame to lose it all.
As long as it's not too much of a technical challenge we may be able to to it.
What are we talking about? Sorry, I must have missed something?
Those guides are out in the public domain already. They could certainly be added to the download library here. The only guide to which someone might claim rights are the HTTR and COTA PDFs as they were compilations of threads I did on the Matrix forums as part of Panther Games Beta Team. But threads were done in public forums.
BTW, Operation Island - the invasion of Taiwan happens on 10/23. I last lived there over 30 years ago.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 07:13:33 PM
BTW, Operation Island - the invasion of Taiwan happens on 10/23. I last lived there over 30 years ago.
Hey! That's also my youngest son's birthday. Hopefully that augers good fortune!
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 07:11:10 PM
What are we talking about? Sorry, I must have missed something?
Those guides are out in the public domain already. They could certainly be added to the download library here. The only guide to which someone might claim rights are the HTTR and COTA PDFs as they were compilations of threads I did on the Matrix forums as part of Panther Games Beta Team. But threads were done in public forums.
First and foremost I don't want your work to be lost.
If you'd like a centralized repository somewhere LMK and I'll look into it here. If you're happy with it where it is, so am I. I'm just try to ensure first and foremost that useful guides created by the community aren't lost. :)
On one hand, the Internet is a life saver for old games as useful material persists years after popularity has waned. On the other hand, it is too easy for key sites to just go poof.
So, whenever I get started with an old game I usually download and archive everything I can find immediately. Generally, given how storage and bandwidth has grown since their release this usually is easy to do in an hour or two. Which in the game's prime could have required days.
So, I appreciate the desire to preserve the digital art form and heritage that our games represent. I'll be sure to let you know if I need anything hosted.
After I get settled and get a new PC, I'll consider if I want to buy a current release and try my hand at a review. I am honored that you think my opinion would be worthy of consumer consideration.
Quote from: MarkShot on September 09, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
After I get settled and get a new PC, I'll consider if I want to buy a current release and try my hand at a review. I am honored that you think my opinion would be worthy of consumer consideration.
While I have a couple of writers with some knowledge of naval warfare, I know of no one with your depth in modern warfare. It would be great if you could write for us as your time allows.
DW/LWAMI
I am in a command of a 688i. I need to attack a SAG.
TASMs are useless and previously discussed due to the perfect shield of defensive missiles.
Now, the course of the SAG is well established and I have the opportunity to get well ahead of it.
Of course, this would permit me to make a stealthy and quiet attack. But I would like to first reduce the SAG's strength. I think I can be, at least, one hour ahead of the SAG. I am thinking that I could lay a field of 16 SLMMs (mines) in their path. Move off and further ahead, then perform a close in attack of any survivors.
Well, I will need to restart the mission as I didn't load up on SLMMs, but this seems like an interest approach which I would like to give a try. Perhaps after the mines, hit the survivors first with 16 TASMs, and then move in for torpedo shots.
I've rarely used the SLMMs, and never have against an oncoming surface group, so let me know how that works out. :D
Just because I don't know where else to post this...
I've spoken a couple of times of how I frequently surf at this spot offshore of Hickam AFB, between the reef runway and the channel to Pearl Harbor. Well, everytime I go out there I always see something interesting- jets, subs, ships, you name it.
I was going through some of the GoPro footage I took a few weeks ago and came across this little part where the SSGN Ohio was cruising out to sea. It's a lot closer than it looks in the picture.
It's a video grab, so it's not very clean, but you get the idea. Note the Seal Delivery Vehicle on the back.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi263.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii123%2Ftoonces3%2FSSGN.jpg&hash=46218ded8cb9befca9accc65fb27b33527e4128b)
Gee ... I wonder what a surf board looks like on the Narrow Band Station? :)
Something like this:
nothingnothingnothingnothingnothingsplashsplashsplashsplashpause...sssswwwwwiiiiiiiiisssshhhhhhhhhh"AH FU..."SPLASH!!!!blubblubblubgurglegurglegurglenothingnothingnothing"dammit..."nothingnothingnothing.....
That is an awesome picture Toonces!
Fun in the sun. Good for you :)
Okay, I am going to dive again and try the SLMM attack approach.
I probably only have a few more dives left.
I have to restart the scenario, since I wasn't loaded out with SLMMs.
The SLMM attack didn't work out so well. However, I believe it has merit, but requires more development.
I played about 90 minutes of AOD today. Just screwing around, since I've forgotten quite a few details. What a great game AOD is!
1940, I attacked a convoy in a Type VII boat. It was 23:00 and I slipped between the escorts on the surface and made it into the convoy. I attacked about 5 merchants, but due to torpedo failures I only sank three.
I was planning to reload over 30 minutes, and see if I could remain clear of the escorts. Sloppy handling led to a collision with one of the sinking merchants. The next hour was touch and go as the crew got the flooding under control while we ran the batteries down at flank to keep from sinking too deep. Finally, we were able surface. Once again planning to use our speed and low profile to get away.
But by now, the escorts had converged on us. We were shelled and a lucky hit caused more leaking. Then, a destroyer making 28kts to our 17kts joined the hunters. We were forced under. We were able to avoid any serious depth charge damage. However, flooding kept dragging us deeper.
After much nail biting creaking, the hull finally gave way.
AOD - what a great game. Maybe it will go back on my laptop which can easily run it before departing.
A war patrol to remember.
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I am Otto Kretschmer in command of U-99 and the date is 10/18/40.
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It's 22:00 and have reports of a convoy to the North West.
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The watch picks up the dirty smoke of coal fired steamers.
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The approach begins. I turn towards the convoy and bring the diesels up to 18KTS.
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I run for 15 minutes as the light begins to fade.
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At roughly quarter hours intervals I order periscope depth so that the hydrophones can get a fix on the convoy. Then, we surface and resume our approach.
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Night closes in. The watch crew will have to be on their toes.
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Finally, as we take another sounding, we know are about to penatrate the convoy. We hear the high speed screws of escorts to the North East and the low rumbling of merchant screws to our West.
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The watch spots our first target.
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We close to 500 meters at hit her a midships.
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Our first kill of this patrol!
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The crew gets busy reloading.
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There will be another seven kills during this Night of the Long Knives. We can hear occassional futile depth charge runs in the distance. But we concentrate our attacks on by working forward in the convoy. The escorts are always searching behind us based on the most recent kills. We will not see them for the rest of the night.
After almost 4 hours, we break contact.
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We are back and we are heros. I am decorated.
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Some of the most exciting attacks in AOD involve:
Performing an end run and getting in front of the convoy in the late day.
Diving deep near crush depth to get under the escort screen.
Coming to periscope depth once you are in the center of the convoy and shooting at 3-4 merchants at once.
Then, diving deep and trying to slip out the back of the convoy. Depending on the time period and whether not night has fallen, you might try surfacing and make a dash for it on the surface.
You most likely won't sink more than three ships by doing this, but of course, you can attack again the next day. Just keep chipping away.
Then, there is the time when wolf packs form. What you want to do is attack from a quadrant which is empty and attack relatively late. By that time, most of the escorts will have been drawn off elsewhere and you will have a quite a bit of freedom to prosecute your attack.
Well, I am glad I installed AOD on my laptop, but this may not bode well for finally playing: RSR, HCCE, and H363. Sorry, Herman!
When you do get to the Harpoon series, I recommend starting with HCCE since the interface is less infuriating. I have always had problems clicking on the old pre-Win95 interface buttons, especially when running it at a high resolution. :-\
There has always been a certain amount of noticeable bugs in the Harpoon3 series, even though a beginner probably wouldn't notice them until getting settled in; the trade-off being that H3 has more detailed control of numerous things. I realize you enjoy those deep rabbit holes with lots of details, too, but if you're new to Harpoon, and notably modern naval warfare on a large scale, then it's the best place to start IMO. There is still a lot to learn with Harpoon Classic, and the feature set is enough to keep me happy for the most part.
IIRC, I have quite a few user-created scenarios for HCCE separated into theater-specific folders somewhere, which makes it easier to identify when loading them in HC. If you ever get around to firing it up, I'll dig around and try to find them. It would save you a lot of time downloading and organizing (quite varied zip folder layouts meant I had to do a good amount of cut & paste to get them in the same folder). I believe Herman has packed up the user-created ones for the H3s into mega-pack(s), so that's the way to go about grabbing those once you're done messing with stock ones. Make sure you read your Red Storm Rising novel before starting for a quick primer. ;)
I watched 20 minutes of Das Boot auf Deustch tonight.
I definitely need to find some time to go back out on patrol. Chess may build the intellect, but the U-boat is for wirklich mensch!
The only thing longer than an AOD war patrol is watching an uncut version of Das Boot!
This is definitely a two night movie.
Quote from: Nefaro on September 22, 2012, 02:20:37 AMI recommend starting with HCCE since the interface is less infuriating.
HCCE is working hard to be as infuriating as ANW. How do you deal with that incessant 'B*tching Betty' function which whines at you constantly to turn your radar on even when it is already active?!
Quote from: Nefaro on September 22, 2012, 02:20:37 AMIIRC, I have quite a few user-created scenarios for HCCE separated into theater-specific folders somewhere, which makes it easier to identify when loading them in HC. If you ever get around to firing it up, I'll dig around and try to find them. It would save you a lot of time downloading and organizing (quite varied zip folder layouts meant I had to do a good amount of cut & paste to get them in the same folder). I believe Herman has packed up the user-created ones for the H3s into mega-pack(s), so that's the way to go about grabbing those once you're done messing with stock ones.
I've tried to tell the clowns in the HCCE support group about combining the scenarios into installation packages for ease of use by the players, but it has fallen upon deaf ears. I guess they think it is smart and convenient to have each and every player hunt down the thousand or so individual scenarios to DL and place in an appropriate folder. Go figure. Typical Harpoon mentality.
Quote from: Herman Hum on October 01, 2012, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on September 22, 2012, 02:20:37 AMI recommend starting with HCCE since the interface is less infuriating.
HCCE is working hard to be as infuriating as ANW. How do you deal with that incessant 'B*tching Betty' function which whines at you constantly to turn your radar on even when it is already active?!
There's an option to turn off the Crew Recommendations IIRC. I never have to deal with those pop-ups after I threaten Betty with a box knife.
Quote
Quote from: Nefaro on September 22, 2012, 02:20:37 AMIIRC, I have quite a few user-created scenarios for HCCE separated into theater-specific folders somewhere, which makes it easier to identify when loading them in HC. If you ever get around to firing it up, I'll dig around and try to find them. It would save you a lot of time downloading and organizing (quite varied zip folder layouts meant I had to do a good amount of cut & paste to get them in the same folder). I believe Herman has packed up the user-created ones for the H3s into mega-pack(s), so that's the way to go about grabbing those once you're done messing with stock ones.
I've tried to tell the clowns in the HCCE support group about combining the scenarios into installation packages for ease of use by the players, but it has fallen upon deaf ears. I guess they think it is smart and convenient to have each and every player hunt down the thousand or so individual scenarios to DL and place in an appropriate folder. Go figure. Typical Harpoon mentality.
Nobody probably wanted to spend all the time doing it. It
did take awhile clicking each scenario link and then unzipping them into a properly uniform folder structure. I hope I didn't lose the file with all those zipped up in it. :-\ I'm still quite positive that I missed a lot of them and I didn't get numerous ones requiring various databases, too. There was just so many and it was a damn mess.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 02:40:54 AMThere's an option to turn off the Crew Recommendations IIRC. I never have to deal with those pop-ups after I threaten Betty with a box knife.
I've looked under both the Staff Options and Game Options. No such feature exists to turn off B*tching Betty. If you found one, please tell me where and how to activate it.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 02:40:54 AMNobody probably wanted to spend all the time doing it. It did take awhile clicking each scenario link and then unzipping them into a properly uniform folder structure. I hope I didn't lose the file with all those zipped up in it. :-\ I'm still quite positive that I missed a lot of them and I didn't get numerous ones requiring various databases, too. There was just so many and it was a damn mess.
I offered and you can already guess the response. Now, everyone has to spend countless hours doing the exact same process to DL and install scenarios instead of clicking once and grabbing 1000 scenarios instantly.
One of the support guys even agreed that most users likely ignore third-party scenarios altogether because of the silly/arduous process of getting them to work. The PlayersDB recognized this and tried to make everything as easy to use as humanly possible for Harpoon3. Because of our work on behalf of the players, the PlayersDB is the most successful, widely used, and accepted database.
AND, it could be made even better and easier for the players. We've offered to help the publishers distribute thousands of scenarios alongside their game patch updates so that users could get new scenarios at same time they update their games. One click to grab absolutely EVERYTHING. You need only one guess as to the response from Matrix. :)
Death is on the prowl:
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Quote from: Herman Hum on October 01, 2012, 03:34:18 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 02:40:54 AMThere's an option to turn off the Crew Recommendations IIRC. I never have to deal with those pop-ups after I threaten Betty with a box knife.
I've looked under both the Staff Options and Game Options. No such feature exists to turn off B*tching Betty. If you found one, please tell me where and how to activate it.
Been awhile since I played, so I had to fire it up to see. It's also freshly installed on my system, so I got the pop-up.
Here's where you go to turn them off, once you've started a game:
Settings->Staff Options
Then check the boxes "Ignore New Contacts" and "Ignore Lost Contacts" for starters. There are a few other triggers there you can also choose to ignore, but they happen much more rarely and are more important warnings like Running Aground and Subs Diving Too Deep. The two "Ignore Contacts" options are the biggies; the ones that pop up all the damn time. Should be pretty smooth sailing after that.
While in the 'Staff Options' page, I also turn off the bottom two: "Show Pulsing Radars" and "Show Formation Grid". They just clutter up the maps with needless extra junk and ditching those two options clears up the map some.
I still prefer playing HCE over H3. The interface is just so much more friendly, especially at high resolutions. I think it looks better too. It's too bad the H3/ANW interface has always been so torturous. :-\ Attempting to close windows in H3, at 1280x1024 resolution is an exercise in button-mashing frustration for me. As I said before, though, that if I ever decide to make some more Harpoon scenarios, it'll have to be for H3 because I just don't feel like bothering to load up WinXP 32bit on a separate hard drive partition just for using HCE's scenario editor. ;) I'd probably just rather play HCE & H3, though, when I get the next itch and see if the creative juices start oozing again.
I also dunno if I'll ever buy the latest version at Matrix because when these old Harpoon (and other) games get re-released every few years, I sometimes get caught paying full price for one and then get stuck with yet another re-release happening in the next year or so after that purchase. At this point it would probably be wise just to wait another couple years when AGS decides they want to charge for another re-release again. Best to buy these re-re-releases when they're fresh, amiright? :P
The thing I found with H3 variants on my PC is that before the UI processes a Window's system action, the mouse needs to move, at least, 1 pixel. So, for me, it is click and twitch.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 12:41:00 PMHere's where you go to turn them off, once you've started a game:
Settings->Staff Options
Then check the boxes "Ignore New Contacts" and "Ignore Lost Contacts" for starters. There are a few other triggers there you can also choose to ignore, but they happen much more rarely and are more important warnings like Running Aground and Subs Diving Too Deep. The two "Ignore Contacts" options are the biggies; the ones that pop up all the damn time. Should be pretty smooth sailing after that.
Yup. Got all of those options turned down as far as possible. They aren't the problem. The problem is when AI Staff incessantly warn me to turn on my radar because I am detected. Even when I turn it on, the warnings continue unabated. The same goes with the "Enemy is in range of your weapons" warnings. You just can't turn this stuff off.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 12:41:00 PMIt's too bad the H3/ANW interface has always been so torturous. :-\ Attempting to close windows in H3, at 1280x1024 resolution is an exercise in button-mashing frustration for me.
I think you are in error regarding the high resolution problems. Certainly, closing windows should not take more than a single click but, when you zoom in tightly with HCCE, it is nearly impossible to make small adjustments in courses or map positions. With H3, you can get nearly pixel-precise control for your orders.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2012, 12:41:00 PMI also dunno if I'll ever buy the latest version at Matrix because when these old Harpoon (and other) games get re-released every few years, I sometimes get caught paying full price for one and then get stuck with yet another re-release happening in the next year or so after that purchase. At this point it would probably be wise just to wait another couple years when AGS decides they want to charge for another re-release again. Best to buy these re-re-releases when they're fresh, amiright? :P
Once you have H3, you don't need the later versions unless you have a fervent desire for multi-player battles.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 01, 2012, 01:14:08 PM
The thing I found with H3 variants on my PC is that before the UI processes a Window's system action, the mouse needs to move, at least, 1 pixel. So, for me, it is click and twitch.
This is very true. The map re-draw does not refresh itself without a slight movement. However, I think that the game calculations, etc. DO continue with or without any required mouse movement.
Quote from: Herman Hum link
Once you have H3, you don't need the later versions unless you have a fervent desire for multi-player battles.
So for someone completely new to Harpoon, you suggest starting with H3, not ANW or HUE? Does H3 work on 64-bit Win7? Part of my frustration with trying to get into Harpoon are all the various versions that are floating around with differing opinions of each.
Quote from: Kushan on October 01, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: Herman Hum link
Once you have H3, you don't need the later versions unless you have a fervent desire for multi-player battles.
So for someone completely new to Harpoon, you suggest starting with H3, not ANW or HUE? Does H3 work on 64-bit Win7? Part of my frustration with trying to get into Harpoon are all the various versions that are floating around with differing opinions of each.
Harpoon3.6.3 works fine on Win7-64 here.
The only thing from the past 8 years or so that doesn't work is the Scenario Editor in the Harpoon Classics because they don't jive with 64bit Windows at all. :-[ But the game itself runs just fine (I'd say the best of all choices) on the latest & greatest.
Quote from: Kushan on October 01, 2012, 02:12:26 PMSo for someone completely new to Harpoon, you suggest starting with H3, not ANW or HUE? Does H3 work on 64-bit Win7? Part of my frustration with trying to get into Harpoon are all the various versions that are floating around with differing opinions of each.
You will have less problems with H3 than with ANW or HUE. Once you learn the basics with H3, then you might want to try ANW or HUE; they use the same basic commands as H3. The problem with ANW and HUE is that they often behave in less than rational manners. If you start with ANW or HUE, you might end up scratching your head and asking yourself, "Why the heck did THAT happen?"
Ah, the Harpoon virus has taken over this thread. Now, I don't have to worry about keeping naval warfare alive here.
Well, if I play, I'll post some feedback here.
Noch tiefe!
Creak, moan, creak, moan, ...
All your naval are belong to Harpoon.
I dunno... with the Steam & Iron campaign beta being released, it could easily go that way too.
So the next naval warfare wargame I'll be tinkering with (again) will be that one. :-*
Tiefe!
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Quote from: MarkShot on October 02, 2012, 07:22:32 AM
Tiefe!
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Sei sicher!
Go ahead, Herman, I know you want to say it!
I'll say it for you ... "if AGSI and Matrix has been in charge of convoy organization and defense during WWII, the Allies would have lost The Battle of the Atlantic".
What I want to know is whether Sir/Herr Hum would have found himself cracking codes at Bletchley Park or with Uncle Karl at BDU HQ? I wonder who tolerated bug reports better Winston or Adolf? (Perhaps, you would have spent your time engaged in the land war against the Man of Steel's unter mensch.)
Quote from: MarkShot on October 02, 2012, 04:58:37 PM
I wonder who tolerated bug reports better Winston or Adolf?
LOL!
;D
Quote from: MarkShot on October 02, 2012, 04:58:37 PM"if AGSI and Matrix has been in charge of convoy organization and defense during WWII, the Allies would have lost The Battle of the Atlantic".
You are mistaken. If AGSI and Matrix were in charge, they would be telling us that there was no war, that we had won it. and that we should just shut up and enjoy our ration of sauerkraut and bratwurst .
Quote from: MarkShot on October 02, 2012, 04:58:37 PMWhat I want to know is whether Sir/Herr Hum would have found himself cracking codes at Bletchley Park or with Uncle Karl at BDU HQ? I wonder who tolerated bug reports better Winston or Adolf? (Perhaps, you would have spent your time engaged in the land war against the Man of Steel's unter mensch.)
Since Adolf didn't accept ANY bug reports, Winston must win in that category. Maybe i would be one of the USN submarine skippers complaining about their faulty torpedoes. And, having the same bug reports fall on deaf ears within the Ordnance Department. What a fiasco that AGSI/Matrix repeat daily. :)
Herman,
The torpedoes are fine it's your tactics that are at fault. Now, close with the enemy and do battle!
You are absolutely right. In the latest version of Harpoon (HUE v3.10), submerged submarines are able to board and capture nuclear-powered aircraft carriers without ever coming to the surface!
Maybe AGSI and Matrix should concentrate on writing television screenplays for the networks, instead. They certainly could not do any worse than that Last Resort nonsense.
No gaming for me tonight, but some reading WWII subs. The detection ranges in this article are interesting:
http://uboat.net/articles/52.html
A year or two ago I had read declassified manuals of various systems of post WWII USA diesel/elec subs. Some really interesting reading.
Here it is! This is great reading for any bubble grog!
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/index.htm#ss
Ahh cool. It's got the old original Attack Course Finder and Angle Solver along with a Torpedo Fire Control handbook. 8)
Although I don't think I'd wade through much of that. I'll settle with doing manual fire control in the SH series and be happy with that. :D
After 6 real years, I've started a new AOD career.
I took U-72 (VIIC) out from La Rochelle on 07/26/42 headed for a patrol around the Caribbean. We are making about 8-9kts to conserve fuel.
We spent the week doing diving and maneuver drills. We can crash dive to 150M in about 2.5 minutes. We spotted one British patrol plane and spent the afternoon making a slow 3kts submerged.
A week out The Watch spotted a loan 5,000 ton American merchant which The Gun Crew sent to the bottom.
Now, we back on route staying South in the Air Gap as much as we can. The crew is young, but well motivated. They pass boredom talking of Fräuleins eager to give sons to the Fatherland and convoys.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 04, 2012, 09:10:17 PM
I took U-72 (VIIC) out from La Rochelle on 07/26/42 headed for a patrol around the Caribbean. We are making about 8-9kts to conserve fuel.
A Type VII sent to the Caribbean?! :o That's quite a fuel stretch. I thought they only sent Type IXs over to the American coast?
Orders are orders ...
You can do it at 8 kts.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 05, 2012, 06:18:51 AM
Orders are orders ...
Stay in character: Behfel ist behfel
Quote from: MarkShot on October 05, 2012, 06:18:51 AM
Orders are orders ...
You can do it at 8 kts.
Heh!
Sounds like you were sent on a pleasure cruise. Get there, turn around and come back?
No time for patrolling Dr. Jones! :P
Log entry ...
08/02/42 20:00 - The ocean is vast and empty.
That kind of sums up how the current patrol/game is going. Well, I have to relinquish the laptop to my wife now. Better hunting next time ...
An early finish today ... I am going back out on patrol!
One thing I like about SHCE is that it gave you environmental conditions on the calendar screen. In AOD, you just need to eyeball it, mainly on the bridge screen.
Of course, I might like to be playing some SHCE, as well, but my laptop cannot handle it with DOSBOX.
08/15/42: Patrolling (as a picket) attempting to intercept a convoy reported by U-1011. Picket line North of Puerto Rico to Hispaniola.
Fuel well conserved 70%. Morale picking up as the hunt is on!
Every three hours we are taking hydrophone soundings.
08/17/42
Spotted and sank a 7,000 ton lone merchant with the deck gun.
The convoy obviously slipped by.
We still have some fuel before we need to head back. We'll cruise the North coast of Brazil. Lot's of sinkings have been reported there recently.
Some photos from my personal scrap book:
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We still have eels and diesel to make this a heroic cruise.
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I have dreams of finding a convoy off of Brazil and hitting it day after day across the Atlantic.
But that will present a predicament, since orders say I should report it. First, I risk HF detection if I do. Second, I could be ordered to trail and report while Oncle Karl vectors other boats in to attack. Again increased risk and less chance for personal glory.
What would you do? Report in or put an entry the log that wireless was damaged during severe rolling in a tropical storm?
BTW, we did have some excitement on picket. A 4 engine bomber was spotted running in at 8,000M out of the clouds. We headed North. I ordered a crash dive. Knowing how clear these waters are, I waited until we passed through 30M before ordering full left rudder to 270 true. We ran at flank for 10 minutes and another 4 hours at 2kts before surfacing. Bombs were dropped, but nowhere close to our track.
The rest of the day is free!!! It's back to the coast of Brazil to hunt.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 08, 2012, 01:30:21 PM
We still have eels and diesel to make this a heroic cruise.
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Holy torpedoes batman!, you must be the No. 1 most wanted man in the Atlantic and No. 2 after the Fuhrer. Did you start with a type VII or went right to the type IXs?, and have you had any other close calls in your campaigns with destroyers or aircraft?
No. I did not start my career at the beginning of the war. Too easy. I started in the middle.
Those sinkings are historical; that's not me.
We've had no contacts off the coast of Brazil. Down to 60% fuel. Now, traversing the Atlantic Air Gap. I will revise the patrol plans as we get closer to Europe.
08/28/42 06:08 - Failed to sink a fast moving troop ship from PD at 3,500M with a spread 3 T3 eels.
09/01/42 Attempted to intercept a convoy coming up the African Coast after a BdU report.
It's been a dull patrol so far, but we continue on with fuel and torpedoes. The crew is demoralized; we really need something juicy.
09/01/42 23:07 - We'll try the mid-Atlantic routes off of Spain. We're not broadcasting, since I suspect that the British may have spies or cracked our code.
09/03/42 04:35 Maybe we were too quick to leave the Antilles. There have been quite a few contact reports.
09/06/42 01:16 Report of convoy outbound from Gibraltar. Ahead full to intercept.
09/08/42 11:00 No convoy encounter. Zig-zaging up the Spanish coast.
Fuel 45%. I am scared to get back to port ... I might be relieved.
09/12/42 - This has to be one of the worst patrols I have ever had. Nothing but AC crash dives and lone merchants of 4,000-7,000 tons. Soon fuel will be an issue and we'll have to head back to port.
Maybe this explains why SHCE flooded the Pacific with Japanese shipping. It was almost impossible not to have targets.
Oh, well ...
It's at times like this that you start playing stupid. Like you see a convoy with 6 destroyer escorts and one escort carrier and still decide to push the attack.
All I need is one stinking convoy ... Just 3 or 4 10,000 ton tankers and I can turn this patrol around. It must be out there somewhere!
When I was studying market technicals and fundamentals 10 hours/day and trading 6, I dreamed of being back out on patrol. The peace and autonomy of the hunt. No watching the futures before open and trying to measure how Europe would affect my buy limit orders for new positions. Now, I am once again back at the helm ... And it is dissappointing ... Maybe it's time reactivate my TDAmeritrade account. Maybe the nostalgia of the Battle of the Atlantic wasn't as I remember it.
It's 12:30AM ... cannot sleep have to be up at 6am, but wife will let me go back on patrol. A good skipper's wife is hard to find!
The only short coming is that I am not using my lit G15 keyboard and the keys are somewhat hard to see. Perhaps, when we settle into our hotel in Taiwan, I'll need to get some form of night light for my keyboard.
Okay, let's go find that convoy! If I find a convoy, I could go to sleep well rested!
I hope you have better luck convoy hunting tonight than I had driving tanks. Good hunting, skipper.
09/20/42 RTB 5 ships sunk for 26 tons; green crew
10/21/42 11:45 Outbound in command of U-72 to grid CF58
Back out I go again, but first to get four hours sleep!
Quote from: MarkShot on October 12, 2012, 11:37:54 PM
The only short coming is that I am not using my lit G15 keyboard and the keys are somewhat hard to see. Perhaps, when we settle into our hotel in Taiwan, I'll need to get some form of night light for my keyboard.
Amazon has a ton. Prices are all over the place - anywhere from $3 to $25. Here's one for $6 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WI8GG8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002WI8GG8&linkCode=as2&tag=grogheads-20
Thanks, but I have only about a week left. No more orders in the USA.
Yesterday and today, 95% of what we own is being sold off. Most of the computer gear is on its way to Taiwan as of Monday. Just the old laptop (2004) and iPad2 remain. Right now, killing time in the library reading "Vortex" on the iPad.
It's after midnight, but I am back out on patrol again.
10/23/42 08:46 Being forced under 2-3 times a day by air patrols!
11/02/42 - I've never played this portion of the war before. Convoys are really hard to find.
The air attacks although targeted are not hard to evade:
(1) Crash dive (flank to 150M or better).
(2) Put course 90d to aircraft run in as soon as submerged.
(3) Run 10 minutes or more at flank. (usually you will hear bombs drop)
(4) Continue ahead slow for four hours.
(5) Come up to PD and surface if clear.
My watch is over; 2am. Good night.
I'm kinda tempted to fire up Silent Hunter 5 again. After going through the Mod Soup nightmare, and knowing when to say when, it's pretty good.
Ha ha ha .... AOD didn't really have any mods, and SHCE has just a couple.
For AOD you could hex edit your sub type I believe. For SHCE, you set your next patrol area.
It was a simpler time!
Perhaps the game is modeling the time when the Enigma was cracked, but it is d*nm frustrating!
3-4 crash dives day and not a single convoy! Now, I just sank a lone 10,000 ton tanker with the deck gun which any captain would be happy to send to the bottom with just shells and no risk.
BUT HELP ME PLEASE ... I AM SUFFERING FROM CONVOY WITHDRAWAL!!!
I think when my wife goes to sleep, I am going to slip over to the laptop and get back on patrol!
It seems the light from the display does not bother her, but my typing does. She said to me, "How can you possibly be typing so much in a game that is mouse driven?". She doesn't understand as captain I must keep a log. :)
11/03/42 16:05 Back on patrol!
The war is over! No matter what I do my current save generates a reproducible crash. I've tried DOSBOX 0.72 (what I have it set up for) and DOSBOX 0.63 (what I first installed a long time ago).
Installed 0.74 and tried everything. My career is kaput!
Time to move onto another game.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 18, 2012, 11:49:56 PM
Installed 0.74 and tried everything. My career is kaput!
Time to move onto another game.
:(
I've been pretty paranoid about the occasionally troublesome saves, playing the old DOS games. I know that making multiple saves, and quite often, is highly recommended in DOSbox but some games only save to the same slot every time and I get this feeling as if I'll get one polluted save that will carry over to any later ones that session. ???
I could backtrack as I have I do manual saves and always write auto check pointing programs for my games. But I am just not so inclined. I just played a game of CM11 (lost) and F12 (lost). :)
AOD does an autosave to slot 19 every 20 minutes of game play (real time).
My autosave script:
Quote
WinTitle(WinName(), "SavCkpt(AOD)")
; ----- Definitions ------
SourceFile="F:\Games\AOD\SIM\SAVE\GAME19.SAV"
DestinationDir="E:\mk\AOD\SavCkpt\Checkpoints\"
Interval=60
; ----- Initialize -----
If !FileExist(SourceFile) then ; only warn
Message("Warning", "Save game file not found. Waiting for file.")
Else
FileAttrSet(SourceFile, "a") ; prime the processing
End If
; ----- Monitor Save Game Status -----
While @true
If FileExist(SourceFile) then ; wait for file to appear
Attr=FileAttrGet(SourceFile)
If StrSub(attr, 2, 1) == "A" Then GoSub CopySaveGame
End If
TimeDelay(Interval)
End While
; ----- Shut Down -----
Exit
Message("Debug", "Pause")
; ##### CopySaveGame #####
:CopySaveGame
; ----- Form file name -----
BaseName=FileTimeGetEx(SourceFile, 2)
ReplaceName=StrClean(BaseName, ":", "", @False, 1)
ReplaceName=StrSub(ReplaceName, 1, 12)
ReplaceName=StrCat(StrSub(ReplaceName, 1, 8), " ", StrSub(ReplaceName, 9, 4))
TargetName=StrCat(DestinationDir, ReplaceName)
FileCopy(SourceFile, TargetName, @False)
Beep()
TimeDelay(1)
Beep()
TimeDelay(1)
Beep()
FileAttrSet(SourceFile, "a") ; clear the flag
Return
And the restore script:
Quote
WinTitle(WinName(), "RestoreCkpt")
; ----- Definitions ------
DestinationFile="F:\Games\AOD\SIM\SAVE\GAME03.SAV"
SourceTemplate="E:\mk\AOD\SavCkpt\Checkpoints\*.*"
SourceDir="E:\mk\AOD\SavCkpt\Checkpoints\"
Interval=60
; ----- Try Different Autosave Checkpoints -----
Title="Select Autosave Checkpoint"
While @true
AutosaveList=FileItemize(SourceTemplate) ; build list in reverse chrono order
AutosaveListCount=ItemCount(AutosaveList, @tab)
For I=1 to AutosaveListCount
ReplaceItem=ItemExtract(I, AutosaveList, @Tab)
Prefix=StrFixLeft(AutosaveListCount+1-I, "0", 4)
ReplaceItem=StrCat(Prefix, " ", ReplaceItem)
AutosaveList=ItemReplace(ReplaceItem, I, AutosaveList, @tab)
next
Autosave=AskItemList(Title, AutosaveList, @tab, @sorted, @single) ; pick an item and restore
Autosave=StrSub(Autosave, 10, -1)
If Autosave!="" Then
AutosaveFile=StrCat(SourceDir, Autosave)
FileCopy(AutosaveFile, DestinationFile, @False)
Beep
Title=StrCat('Select Autosave Checkpoint ( last = "', Autosave, '" )')
End If
End While
I am still regretting my AOD problems. Although I tried SHCE unsuccessfully on my laptop; too slow.
I think maybe the latest version might just have the tweaks to make it work.
Hot dog!!!
I managed to get SHCE running beautifully on my laptop. I guess that last time I tried it was with a much less capable version of DOSBOX many years ago!
Quote from: MarkShot on October 19, 2012, 08:44:08 PM
Hot dog!!!
I managed to get SHCE running beautifully on my laptop. I guess that last time I tried it was with a much less capable version of DOSBOX many years ago!
I had the original Silent Hunter running in DOSbox about six years ago, off the CD version. I had to copy the disc contents to my hard drive and run from there (IIRC) and lower the CPU cycles some, but it wasn't too much of a chore. I don't recall any other notable issue, though. What was happening with yours?
What a huge difference switching from DOSBOX 0.63 to 0.74 made. SHCE was unplayable on my 2004 laptop and now it plays just fine.
Seeing how much more efficient the emulation is, I now realize that I could have probably run other favorites like RTD and CaesarII.
But I am happy to have some Pacific sub action. I had a lot more hours in with AOD. So, this should be a nice opportunity. At least, finding convoys in SHCE is a no brainer. I don't feel battling crashes in AOD.
I got all docs on my iPad to review the game. I would like to patrol this weekend, but with only 4 days left I don't know if I'll find the time. Hope so.
The surface view would lurch and stutter. But now it is smooth full screen; 15" @ 1024x768.
06/17/42 05:16 OUT – SS-212 (Gato) Northern Japan
Doing some basic control exercises as I check out the boat and the crew. Maybe I will get on the hunt before departing - 3 more days. (But I need to pack up the laptop in 2 days.)
I've used Kim's Mod tool mainly to put myself in a Gato class boat. But one of the really nice things about it is that you can pick a patrol area. This can give you some interesting options if you want to go deep water or shallow water hunting.
I suppose SHCE will be fine. I do recall AOD did have a few bugs. One of the more irritating ones was that sometimes your max TC could get locked at 64X. This could make it very time consuming to get back to France.
Aren't you supposed to be flying the friendly skies and eating crappy airline food? :D
3 more days left in NJ.
Well that gives you plenty of time to eat some good food before you are forced to endure airline offerings.
Well, I plan to take a 48 hour break from being a vegetarian (the last six months).
Should I start at IHOP Tuesday morning with a big cheese omelet, then go over to BK for the Baconator with Cheese? Then, end the day with a 24oz chocolate malt from DQ? By the end of the day if I haven't induced a heart attack or a stroke, I guess I will be going to Taiwan! :)
Nah, I think I will just have some salmon sashimi and keep it light. Once I have arrived in Taiwan Thursday, it's back to being a vegetarian for me. At least, there will be some real food choices eating out unlike here in South Jersey. (If anyone is curious why the short term change ... I just cannot consume super high fiber meals and sit cramped {literally} for hours.} If you guys can raise underwear stains in my other thread, then I guess I can, at least, raise the topic of beans and gas here.)
Mark, before you get on board the flight, take some Beano with your last few meals before takeoff. It actually prevents gas, unlike simethicone based products like Gas-X that just try to bind gas into larger, more passable, bubbles. It works very well because it contains an enzyme that breaks down the polysaccharides and similar complex sugars that result from digestion of fiber and other carbos. These sugars are the culprit behind the misery of expanding gas, esp. at 30,00 ft! You should be able to find it at the supermarket or most any pharmacy.
Note that it may interact with a certain diabetes medication, acarbose (Precose/Prandase?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beano_(dietary_supplement)
I know about beano. I'll be fine. I am more likely to have issues with my sinus than bowels anyway. Plan to use some Affrin. That stuff is okay for a day, but otherwise causes bounce back and dependence.
True on the Afrin/Neosynephrine. I reserve it for only the worst of cases and never for more than 2 days.
I haven't finished reading the manual yet, but the hunt is on. I just swapped the iPad2 for the laptop with my wife. She may not be able to appreciate my PC gaming hobby, but sinking Japanese shipping sounds good to her! (Remember China and Japan are engaged our a territorial dispute at the moment.)
06/17/42 07:30 Will patrol in the Tsaguru Strait South of Hokkaido.
10:47 Japanese sampans spotted – target practice!
10:51 4 sampans; closing. 13,000 yards. Boarding party to the Bridge. Man the gun!
Watch crew - stay sharp for air patrols!
10:54 Sampans dispersing.
11:10 Boarding party reports loaded with light weapons; sink them!
11:15 All sunk – resume patrol.
I want to post some screenshots of our action, but my ISP has already deleted my account. I'll need to work this out.
Okay, got it worked out.
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My war patrol can continue!
This is what I mean my excessive traffic and contact reports. You don't get anything like this in AOD! But as my time is short and I just want to hunt. I'll take it without complaining!
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Another issue I remember with the implementation of SHCE ... because of the partitioning into separate small maps, it's not possible to track a convoy for thousands of miles like you could in AOD. This tends to restrict your tactical options.
18:56 Another sampan spotted, but we'll let this pass. We are after bigger game.
Lucky buggers!
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19:51 Report of a small convoy. Attempt to intercept and attack at night. Perhaps after moonset.
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Pretty dark now ... if I can find them, it could be worth a night attack. Estimate contact in two hours.
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06/18/42 00:26 Contact!
Attacking trailing ship. Appears that there are two escorts in the formation.
Launched two fish at 1,000 yds. Duds! G*d D*m!
Evading ... surface foot race as an escort comes about.
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00:55 Evasion successful. Reloads complete. Heading North into Strait.
I am going to have some complaints about these bum fish when I get back to Pearl. Stand down from battle stations.
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Well, time to pack it in. Nice to be back out on the water. Who knows maybe my next report will be filed from the Taiwan Strait (literally).
My manual says the early fish ran too deep. I think next time I shoot I'll set them to run as shallow as possible.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 21, 2012, 10:43:36 PM
My manual says the early fish ran too deep. I think next time I shoot I'll set them to run as shallow as possible.
The early war torpedoes tended to run deeper than they were set, historically, and that's what sub commanders did back then IIRC. Set them to as shallow as possible.
Between the poor depth-keeping and the faulty triggers, there will be lots of frustration. At least you'll have more targets to shoot at now. :P The real test is evading destroyers in one of the many shallow water areas. :D
I haven't sank anything of consequence, but I did manage one night surface evasion and one submerged evasion. It got the andrenaline going!
I am wheels up in 24hrs. Just think ... The next time I patrol the Taiwan Strait, I WILL BE IN TAIWAN!
It must be quite a feeling, knowing you will be living in another country within a day (plus travel time). I know you are no cultural wallflower but the 'differentness' of your new host country must still present a bit of a nervous thrill. We expect a running commentary of what happens! "The New Adventures of Mark in the Orient" could make for a nice blog title. ;)
I think I have more amusing stories from my first time overseas in 1980. I'll share a few.
So, I got a motorcycle which for me was really cool. Growing up in the 60's in the USA, bikes were way cool. Of course, in Taiwan, everyone had one. In Taiwan to have the means to own a car was cool.
Now, in the USA, we honk a pedestrian meaning, "don't cross, you'll get hit". In Taiwan, a honk meant, "don't dawdle, move your butt and get across". I could never understand why these people kept charging out in front of my bike!
Do you remember the Good Humor Truck and the music when we were kids? In Taiwan wives didn't work. They brought the garbage out when the truck came by. Quite a few times I went out looking for the ice cream truck and could not find it! The signal music for trash pick up was the Good Humor Truck!
At that time dish detergent in the USA all came in the same shape container. I lived for two months with a guy and his girl friend. I couldn't read. Sometimes I would try to wash my own dishes instead of leaving them. As I grew up in the feminist USA. Now, I couldn't read, but dish soap was easy to spot from the shape. I could never figure why Taiwanese dish soap was so poor! It turns out that I was washing the dishes with cooking oil.
I got hundreds of stories like this about cross cultural dating and many other things.
No pressure- take a week off to get to know your new neighborhood. Then start the blog. We'll be waiting to vicariously live it with you. ;)
Dating has probably changed a lot ...
First, there wasn't that much dating, since relationships were supposed to have a point. So, extended casual dating was not easy.
Unlike the USA, dating was very cheap. The ideal place was some place highly public like a park.
American women tended to distinguish themselves as individuals. This was not the Chinese way. You could go out a few times and all they did was smile and giggle. You had no idea of the difference between Girl A and Girl B after a few dates.
You never had to ask, "Can I see you again?". The opinion of you as a person was formed before the first date. You would have had to be an idiot to be turned down for a second date.
You never asked a woman to pay. Unlike the USA, there were well defined sex stereotypes. Women were not looking for liberation, but men who fulfill the responsibilities of being a man.
I am sure much has changed from 30 years ago. Getting dates was much easier than the USA was much easier, but knowing who to go out with was mush harder. In any cross cultural relationships there are huge potentials for misunderstandings. It was common knowledge that many Taiwanese women wanted a ticket to the USA and the big PX. BTW, my wife is not Taiwanese, but Cantonese from Macau. I was very concerned about being suckered.
When you grow up in the same culture you can figure a woman in a few hours. When you grow up 13,000 milies apart it can take years!
06/18/42 18:26 Surfaced after a successful evasion of two escorts. Will patrol the deeper areas of Strait. Charging batteries and ventilating the boat.
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Course laid in for a night surface patrol ...
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23:38 PD – four stern fish fired at what looked like two troop ships. Duds and misses! 400' evading. Appears to be no escorts.
I had these shots at 800 yards!!! Aargh!!!
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The only thing that works is the deck gun!
As there did not appear to be any escorts. I surfaced and tried for 30 minutes to restablish contact for a bow on attack. But with no luck. I am once again navigating out to deeper water.
It's a very clear day. We are heading towards a busy section of the Strait. If we see any activity, we'll make a submerged attack.
The cruiser will pass at its closest 15,000yds to the North. No solution. Turning South to avoid escorts.
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Well, tonight's patrol is over. I would have had some good results if not for the duds. It's tempting to drop the realism level to up the tonnage ... maybe next patrol.
At least, I am getting approach and evasion practice!
Ah ... my two day vegetarian break has started ...
Just had a 16-20 ounce lattes with real sugar and real half&half. Call it about 700-800 calories. The breakfast of champions! :)
SH had to be one of the best looking DOS games ever made. I'm still shocked at how well they used the limited capabilities to good effect.
I think the water/wave action was better done in AOD. I always feel that the ocean looks pretty flat in SHCE.
However, one big improvement is the absence of the magic visibility circle of AOD. In AOD, even when submerged at 200M, you could tell visibility is 2,000M without coming to PD.
Also, SHCE models a thermal layer ... Although perhaps too simplistically, but I could never really figure out the layer modeling in SC and DW anyway.
Wheels up and Pacific bound in 2+ hours now!
Quote from: MarkShot on October 23, 2012, 10:31:50 PM
I think the water/wave action was better done in AOD. I always feel that the ocean looks pretty flat in SHCE.
The flatness of the ocean.. yeah I see that too. But the colors, the gauges, the neatness of it is all good compared to most of the usual extremely blocky DOS visuals. The black smoke is impressive in that one above shot, for instance.
I look to hear some more when you get situated. I've not had much of a naval warfare kick for some time other than NWS Steam & Iron but this thread has been giving me a bit of an itch.
That reminds me.. has anyone else played the new Steam & Iron campaign beta yet? My list is still stuffed and I've been hoping the smaller Baltic one, that comes as an update for the vanilla game, gets officially released by the time I get to it. Because if the Baltic campaign is good, I'll definitely wanna run out and buy the expansion with the other campaigns. It's not done yet, so I'm being patient enough to wait & see what the final iteration is. Mark, didn't you say that you've not tried Steam & Iron?
Quote from: MarkShot on October 23, 2012, 10:31:50 PM
I think the water/wave action was better done in AOD....
In the opinion of many,
Aces of the Deep had the best graphics of any sub sim for many years. I am not surprised considering Dynamix developed it.
Those SH screens bring back memories of many good hours of gameplay. Are you using the Merchant Maru mod which gives random tonnage to the jap ships or any other reality mods?, i remember those somewhat enhanced gameplay and the dynamic campaign.
I wasn't using that mod ...
The war is now a lot closer as I am in Taipei!
06/20/42 - I am shadowing a convoy at about 18,000yds across the Tsagaru Strait.
There does not appear to be an escort. At this distance, I look for small ships not following a straight group course. However, (unlike AOD) Japanese merchants often are armed. So, I need to be careful. Also, this is not looking like a good night for a surface attack ... too clear and no fog. However, I will stick with it. Perhaps, I will try to sprint ahead and make a submerged attack.
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Charge complete, beginning to pull ahead ...
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Just a horrible night for a surface attack ... what I wouldn't give for some fog!
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Just outside of visual range ... time to angle in ...
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In position ...
Dive! Dive! Dive! Periscope Depth ... Chief don't broach my boat!
Now, we'll just make fine adjustments ... we'll probably run very slow not to feather the scope on the calm water ... but this type of attack could be run on final just by using SONAR contacts and bearing rates.
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20:36 - It finally all comes together ... practice, tactics, planning, timing, ...
Firing 3 salvos of 2 bow fish at 3 targets ... practically point blank. Immediately after the last fish is away, I order a crash dive. I think there are no escorts, but I am not willing to bet my life on it.
2 duds or misses out of 6 fish. But oh the beauty, one ship going down as we hear and feel the bulk heads collapsing ... two other ships likely crippled after we heard solid primaries followed by some secondaries.
If no high speed screws of escorts churn the water in a minute or two, then we are coming back up to finish the two cripples with our stern tubes! This patrol will be a success!
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The best night of sub action for a while ...
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I kinda like the quick transit to patrol map in SH1.
One of the big drags of the latest ones is having to pump up time compression and wait out the long transit times to & from home port. I'd prefer just being "warped" to some point a relatively small distance away from my first assigned patrol area and save all that dead waiting time coming out of home waters.
We already spend a lot of transit time while looking for targets on the patrol, so it just provides more quality gaming time without wasting so much.
That TDC screen is what I miss more about SH. Why couldn't this be integrated into SH4??!! :(
Quote from: Oche on October 25, 2012, 03:56:32 PM
That TDC screen is what I miss more about SH. Why couldn't this be integrated into SH4??!! :(
I'm a bit more practical, I suppose. I'm fine with all those TDC dials being on slide-outs in the scope screens. I can still use them, and they look pretty much the same so it's all good.
Someone asked for a blog about relocation to Taiwan. Well, I am not going do one, but I'll give you some local color before I go back out on patrol.
BTW, it's Friday evening already on this side of the World! (in Taiwan Margaritaville always comes early)
I became a vegetarian about 7 months ago and lost 35 pounds. But d*m, I forgot just how hot and oppressively humid it is here. Back in NJ, the farmers were getting frost warnings. Not here ... it's like 90 and so humid a fish could breath. Getting back to my weight ... this weather will definitely encourage me to lose more. I could lose another 35 pounds and it would still be too much to carry in this heat!
Well, just like 30 years ago ... total strangers are coming up to me and trying to strike up a conversation. It's freaking out my wife ... despite having lived here before too, I guess, she has spent too many years in NYC. In NYC, chatty strangers is often an RX for trouble. But here they just want to practice their English or ask something about the USA. I lied to the last one today ... "You American?" ... "Ich bin Deustche" and walked away. I just didn't have the time.
For the most part there is a friendliness in Taipei and good manners that you don't find in America's big cities like NYC, Philly, DC ... It's refreshing. I cannot really say this is a Chinese thing ... it's a Taiwanese thing. I find the Cantonese in Hong Kong well rival NYC for manners and attitude.
I've been struggling with Mandarin after not speaking for more than 30 years. While struggling, I tend to ask "Nay sik m sik gong Guan Dong wah? (Cantonese: Do you speak Cantonese?). Generally, most here don't, but having seen enough Hong Kong tourist and TV to recognize it when they hear it. Beside the fact that I do speak some Mandarin, this instantly scores me mucho cultural bonus points that I speak a Chinese dialect that they don't. The only way to hike my cultural score any higher would be if I spoke Taiwanese which is basically the same as Fukinese spoken across the Strait in the PRC.
Okay, I have to get back out on patrol. It's 1942 and the Chinese are important allies. (until 1949) Just like few Americans give enough credit to the 30 million Soviets who died defeating Hitler ... most Americans don't realize that WWII began much earlier for China. Also, despite Japanese predictions of a quick victory against their own untermensch, the Chinese. China tied up the Emperor's troops and resources that otherwise would have been deployed against the USA's advance towards the Home Islands.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 25, 2012, 04:03:08 PM
Quote from: Oche on October 25, 2012, 03:56:32 PM
That TDC screen is what I miss more about SH. Why couldn't this be integrated into SH4??!! :(
I'm a bit more practical, I suppose. I'm fine with all those TDC dials being on slide-outs in the scope screens. I can still use them, and they look pretty much the same so it's all good.
Well, in SHCE, you can also step through a sequence of the TDC controls either on the scope or TBT screens. As you can see, I am not doing manual TCD.
I know AOD didn't model the Earth's curvature (SHCE does), do the later SH releases model this?
I remember playing SH3 and sneaking in for an attack in the fog "deck awash" (meaning very low in the water). I cannot remember if that really reduced spotting SH3. But there was no danger doing it. Of course, in real life, you risked flooding the boat or getting water in the induction valve (air intake for the diesels).
BTW, this is the mod I am using, but for the moment I haven't tweaked anything for this career:
Quote
Kim's Multi Purpose Tool.
Version 1.2.4.2
This Tool lets you change data in the SH data files.
It's fairly simple to use just follow the numbers – press buttons, chose "things" by the number (start with 1 !).
You can change the following data :
The Patrol area.
The Submarine type and name.
The gun position (for or aft) – but only on fleet submarines.
The crew experience level.
The torpedo load (type of torpedoes, and distribution into tubes and racks)
You can reload fuel and ammo for the gun.
But not all can be done a once, it depends on your patrol status (harbour or on patrol).
Before you start .
The program must be saved in the Save folder (directory) under the Silent Hunter folder. Just unzip the program and this manual into the Save folder.
When changing a "harbour" file (def= a career file saved before you leave the harbour). You can change sub, crew experience, gun position (but only on fleet type subs).
When changing a "on patrol" file (def= a career file saved after you have left the harbour). You can change torpedo types and number, and position the different torpedoes, refuel and reload ammo for the gun.
The patrol area can be changed if you choose a harbour file AND if NO file I chosen.
How to use the program:
Depending on whether you are at the beginning of a career or not the program is used differently.
Torpedoes, fuel and ammo can only be changed at sea (using a patrol file), this is due to a technicality in the way Silent Hunter is programmed.
You can start up in 2 different ways.
1) Choose a patrol area then go to SH and start a patrol or
2) Create a career in SH and then go the TCT program and change the patrol area.
The advantage of method 1 :
You don't get any choice of command area (ComSubPac or ComSubSoWesPac) in SH if the patrol area is chosen first, this is especially an advantage if you have to sail under Taskforce 42.
The disadvantage is :
You have to first start the TCT then SH and then start the TCT again, that's a lot of program switching, especially if you want to change the torpedo config which requires yet another SH startup and a TCT startup.
The advantage of method 2 :
You just have 2 steps – a) start SH, create a career save it then start TCT up, choose the patrol area, and all the rest : sub, crew experience and gun position.
The disadvantage is :
You may not bee able to get to the patrol area, if the program places you at the wrong start harbour, especially if you are assign to Taskforce 42.
My advice is use method 2 normally, except if you are assign to taskforce 42.
Method 1 :
A) You start up the TCT program – choose the PZPick tab.
Now change 1 (Year and month) to the year and month of your patrol.
Then click on the command you wish to sail under and press 2
You should now se all the patrol areas und that command . Now choose a patrol area (click on it) and press 3 the Choose Patrol area button.
B) Then close the TCT program and start up Silent Hunter create a career using the same month and date, you should now not get any choice of Command area, the program should give you a valid start port.
Accept the command and sub and exit the program. Your new career should be saved as a harbour file.
C) Start up the TCT program – 1 choose the career you just made (click on it). Then press 2 the GetSubData button then go to the SubInfo tab.
1) Choose the subtype by clicking the type – then choose the specific sub you where assign to and 2) click on the Change Sub button.
If you want to change the Crew experience and/or the Gun position then click on the appropriate buttons (Change Crew Exp and/or Reposition Gun).
Method 2
You may have to start up the TCT program first – to reset all the patrol areas, this can be done from the front page – just press the Reset All Patrol Zones button.
A) Start Silent hunter and create a new career, accept the command and sub then close the program.
B) Start up the TCT program – 1 choose the career you just made (click on it). Then press 2 the GetSubData button then go to the SubInfo tab.
1) Choose the subtype by clicking the type – then choose the specific sub you where assign to and 2) click on the Change Sub button.
If you want to change the Crew experience and/or the Gun position and click on the appropriate buttons (Change Crew Exp and/or Reposition Gun).
C) Now click on the PZPick button, the year and month of you patrol is marked in the year and month window, but you can't change them.
Click on the command you wish to sail under and press 1 The List patrol Areas Button.
You should now se all the patrol areas und that command1. Now choose a patrol area (click on it) and press 2 the Choose Patrol area button.
That's it.
To change Torpedoes, fuel and ammo.
A) You must start your patrol ( this should only be done AFTER you have uses method 1 or 2 above), then save the patrol when at sea (Press Alt O, choose save career – name the file and accept) Now exit SH and
B) Start the TCT program – choose the saved patrol file, it will be marked on Patrol
C) Press 2 the GetSubData button, 2 more options now appear 3 the torpedo distribution, input the numbers of different torpedoes you want, into the windows at 3 (Note the program won't let you uses torpedoes that are not available at the time, and won't let you load any more torpedoes that the sub can carry – don't try it, it won't work).
D) When you are satisfied with your mix – press 4 the Input Available Torpedoes button. If the choice is valid the program jumps you to the Torpedoes and fuel page:
E) Input the torpedoes one by one into the torpedo tubes and racks 5, choosing the torpedo type that you want (You only have the torpedoes that are available from the first page to choose among) – When you are satisfied with your choice press
F) 6 the load torpedo button – and the torpedoes are loaded into the tubes and racks.
G) If you want to refuel (and can – this should only be done where it was done in WW II – ask the group if you are in doubt, I sure you will get an answer) or if you wish to restock the ammo (under the same conditions as before), just press the Reload or/and refuel button and the boat is filled up.
Known Errors:
Once you chosen a career file don't chose another unless you close and restart the program again. It doesn't function well if you use the restart button.
Technical stuff :
When the program is started, it reads your roster files (That's where SH saves your careers). The program changes your roster files in SH.
NO Backup of the roster files are made.
And the program changes the Subs.dat file (Gun position)
NO backup of the Subs.dat file is made.
NOTE 1 : you can't take any more torpedoes than the boat can carry, and you can't input mark14 and 18's into S, Barracuda and Narwhale type submarines.
NOTE 2: the program reads the Career date, and only lets you choose Subs, Torpedoes and patrol areas that are available at that date.
That's All Folks
Kim Rønhof
And this is why folks use the above mod, since, as you can see, I am being sent back to the exact same patrol area!
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I think I'll head South and see what shipping looks like around Tokyo. At least, we'll be able to receive some big band music from Tokyo Rose.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 26, 2012, 03:39:39 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on October 25, 2012, 04:03:08 PM
Quote from: Oche on October 25, 2012, 03:56:32 PM
That TDC screen is what I miss more about SH. Why couldn't this be integrated into SH4??!! :(
I'm a bit more practical, I suppose. I'm fine with all those TDC dials being on slide-outs in the scope screens. I can still use them, and they look pretty much the same so it's all good.
Well, in SHCE, you can also step through a sequence of the TDC controls either on the scope or TBT screens. As you can see, I am not doing manual TCD.
I know AOD didn't model the Earth's curvature (SHCE does), do the later SH releases model this?
I remember playing SH3 and sneaking in for an attack in the fog "deck awash" (meaning very low in the water). I cannot remember if that really reduced spotting SH3. But there was no danger doing it. Of course, in real life, you risked flooding the boat or getting water in the induction valve (air intake for the diesels).
In SH1, if weather was clear, i remember aircraft spotting and dropping bombs over your submerged sub silhouette if you were too shallow say at PD 65 feet. How's that for realism?
Quote from: MarkShot on October 26, 2012, 03:39:39 AM
Well, in SHCE, you can also step through a sequence of the TDC controls either on the scope or TBT screens. As you can see, I am not doing manual TCD.
I know AOD didn't model the Earth's curvature (SHCE does), do the later SH releases model this?
I have no idea whether the earth's curvature is modelled in any Silent Hunter games, after the first. Hell, they didn't even have a thermocline layer modelled until SH4 (one of the things sorely missing from SH3).
QuoteI remember playing SH3 and sneaking in for an attack in the fog "deck awash" (meaning very low in the water). I cannot remember if that really reduced spotting SH3. But there was no danger doing it. Of course, in real life, you risked flooding the boat or getting water in the induction valve (air intake for the diesels).
Yes, the viewable cross-section of your sub was modelled.. at least in SH3 and up. I regularly modded some of the easy values for sighting in SH4 because night-time spotting of your sub usually prevented realistic surface attacks in the dark in 3 & 4 due to the sighting model not being as refined as we'd like. I still never got the results I wanted but it could be tweaked closer, IIRC. I also preferred to beef up enemy sonar performance so that even Average quality crews would still likely find you if you were above the layer and within around 750 to 1k yards of the operating destroyer's active sonar arc. The stock was often just too easy to evade, and would only seem to get an Active Sonar hit if it was within about 400 to 500 yds.
In SH5, there's a handy visibility overlay 'cheat' that shows on the map just how far away you're likely to be spotted. It's an approximation but helps give you a good idea how effective your surface stealth tactics are within the game engine, and helps you refine them. I believe this is only active when you're at PD with your scope up, however, and you'll notice the difference heights at which the sighting range will drop. It's not fully linear but stair-stepped so obviously the engine is rounding off calculations for either the displayed estimate or both that and the engine calculations. I seem to recall the earlier ones (SH3 & 4) had some generic sighting thing that I never used because I had most of the Realism settings on but this one seems to be on all the time, anyway, in SH5.
You can still benefit from attacking decks awash in the latest SH'es. I'm pretty sure it was somewhat effective in SH3 through SH5 although I get the feeling that the sighting mechanics got a little extra needed work in SH5 since the previous two. I've not really done enough long-term gaming with it to be sure, however.
All these SH1 screens are so good too see again that i really got in the mood to resume my SHIV campaign. This is on my 2nd patrol, "P" class, USS Pollack, near Manila (already captured by Japan), Jan 1942, i found a loner ship, i peppered it with the 4 inch deck gun with my last AP rounds, it's gun was still firing at our sub so i dived to PD, it didn't want to sink so i went for a snap shot from stern tube 5...
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Nice pics ... my laptop doesn't even do them justice, since it is a 2004 with 15" 1024x768 display. So, I have to scroll left and right to view them!
Yesterday, I was in a perfect forward attack profile at PD off of Hitachi. I salvo-ed 3x2 and all were duds! Sometimes, turning on realism options can be very painful!!! I then went deep and cried!
---
[Taiwan blog mode ON]
Yesterday morning, I went for some basic medical screening required for immigration processing.
I was somewhat depressed afterwards. I realized that if I ever want to be an adult in this society simply speaking Mandarin will not be good enough. I'll have to, at least, be able to read Chinese.
Previously, I had thought that speaking would be good enough. We go back to Macau and Hong Kong every year. For the most part, speaking Cantonese is good enough. But these societies are very different. Both are former colonies. The use of written English signs and forms is much more pervasive. Not so, in Taiwan.
Learning to read is going to be a lot of work. I can read and write Chinese somewhat already, but that is with computer assistance. Doing it completely manually requires pure intellect. It's either learn or forever be dependent on the kindness of strangers to guide me even when the answer is posted on a sign staring me in the face.
Although I like that everyone is so helpful, I don't want be so dependent the rest of my life. So, after a six month break, I started sending my first emails in written Chinese to local friends. I find that this is one of fastest ways to improve character recognition as opposed to brute force memorization.
[Taiwan blog mode OFF]
From my setup off of Hitachi. Note, in the second screen shot ... the fish impact count down timer ... and the bottom of the screen my OOD reporting "Dud torpedo, Sir!". That is really upsetting after such a great attack run!!!
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An example of my meager Chinese writing practice:
Quote
家姊，
你有空的時候，生來我們的房间。我給你看我怎麼寫中文。｢用電腦｣
拜拜。
Speaking of water. Right now, we would probably be evacuating from Hurricane Sandy.
Well, despite that our house is still in the path, we are 13,000 miles away which is about evacuated as you can get!
Quote from: MarkShot on October 27, 2012, 07:41:46 PM
An example of my meager Chinese writing practice:
Quote
家姊，
你有空的時候，生來我們的房间。我給你看我怎麼寫中文。｢用電腦｣
拜拜。
Google translates that as:
QuoteJiazi, when you have the time, born of our room. I'll show you how to write Chinese. "Computer bye.
'born of our room'? ???
Quote from: MarkShot on October 27, 2012, 07:24:12 PM
From my setup off of Hitachi. Note, in the second screen shot ... the fish impact count down timer ... and the bottom of the screen my OOD reporting "Dud torpedo, Sir!". That is really upsetting after such a great attack run!!!
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I miss that TDC station...With the "Rig for Red" light looks even better.
If you get instructed to do a Recon Mission or a Lifeguard mission please take some screenshots, i miss those too.
Staggerwing,
You caught my mistake. I am writing Chinese using a system from the PRC that allows input phonetically. It's called pinyin.
So, I type "sheng" and it gives me a character. But there are many characters which correspond to the same phonetics, but that have different meanings. Now, generally, the IME (Input Method Engine) on Windows picks the right one. Think of it like the thumb typing engine under an iPhone, but on steroids. However, occasionally, it will chose wrong. At which point, I should bring up a list of alternates. I failed to realize I used the wrong character.
I used:
生
to give birth, when I meant:
上
which this whole example is off, since it is "shang" with a slightly different sound meaning to come up.
The mail was meant to say, "Big Sister, When you have time, come up to our room. I will show you how I am writing Chinese. (with a computer)"
BTW, the reason Google comes up with "jiazi" for
家姊
is that the above is really spoken Cantonese (meaning eldest sister). Proper written Chinese uses only the Mandarin dialect. But, of course, as I speak Cantonese I tend use Cantonese expressions. Further, my big sister, wife's friend is Cantonese and a lot of Cantonese from Hong Kong tend to write like they speak despite what is considered proper.
So, if I had used:
大姊
Google would have done a better job of it.
Going back out on patrol ... but first to all those in Sandy's path stay safe ... were it not for a week, I think I would have been more or less on her landfall.
Thanks for the lesson. I doubt I'd have a snowball's chance in Hel of learning more than a bit of any kind of Chinese alphabet.
It would be easy if there was any form of alphabet, but instead there are 40,000 characters (pictographs) and you need know, at least, 2,000 to be literate. Most words are combinations of two or three characters. To give you an idea of how these things combine. However, pinyin lets me create these characters with phonetics and keyboard.
電話 = electric voice = telephone; dian hua
電腦 = electric brain = computer; dian nao
電風扇 = electric wind hand fan = fan; dian feng shan
Quote from: MarkShot on October 28, 2012, 09:34:34 AM
It would be easy if there was any form of alphabet, but instead there are 40,000 characters (pictographs) and you need know, at least, 2,000 to be literate. Most words are combinations of two or three characters. To give you an idea of how these things combine. However, pinyin lets me create these characters with phonetics and keyboard.
電話 = electric voice = telephone; dian hua
電腦 = electric brain = computer; dian nao
電風扇 = electric wind hand fan = fan; dian feng shan
I lived in Japan for a while. Never learned to write, but I could read simple signs and such.
Chinese is far more complex. I don't envy you for that task. But I do like the fact that you speak Cantonese. It should make the other dialects seem simple by comparison.
He he he ... one of the advantages of being a captain of sub in a video game is the ability to fall asleep on watch. :)
Nothing to report from last night's surface barrier cruise along Hitachi. I am surprised that there hasn't been any air activity around the Japanese home islands. If this was SH2/PA or AOD, I would have found myself being forced down frequently due to AC sightings.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 28, 2012, 06:54:35 PM
Nothing to report from last night's surface barrier cruise along Hitachi. I am surprised that there hasn't been any air activity around the Japanese home islands. If this was SH2/PA or AOD, I would have found myself being forced down frequently due to AC sightings.
If it were vanilla SH4, you'd have aircraft flying over every two hours, no matter where you are. :P
One thing terribly annoying about the newer SH'es, and one of my first adjustments made.
I had turned down the number air bases (floating AC spawn locations) in SH2/PA. Although possibly realistic, it was just a pain having to crash dive so often.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 28, 2012, 06:54:35 PM
He he he ... one of the advantages of being a captain of sub in a video game is the ability to fall asleep on watch. :)
Nothing to report from last night's surface barrier cruise along Hitachi. I am surprised that there hasn't been any air activity around the Japanese home islands. If this was SH2/PA or AOD, I would have found myself being forced down frequently due to AC sightings.
Pacific Aces is a very good mod and still makes up for a fun campaign, the constant AC patrols are really annoying for the fact that you don't get enough time to Crash dive to safe depth but that can be the least of my worries, the one thing i hate is the laser guided depth charges, I remember modding the depth charge accuracy so that the cans explode at random depths instead of ALWAYS exploding at the exact depth of your sub, i will have to get back into that.
You can either hack the generator templates or post process the generated campaign files to reduce AC frequency. SH2/PA was itself very moddable. :)
[Taiwan blog mode ON]
Some of you may know that I became a vegetarian about 8 months ago for general health reasons. I've lost about 35 pounds so far.
In the South NJ, USA, being a vegetarian was definitely swimming against the current whenever you ate out. However, this place is a vegetarian paradise! Every block or two there is a vegetarian self serve with 20-30 dishes out. A full plate runs about $2 USD. I think only personal criticism I would have is that I could do with less salt in the food. Of course, I like the dishes so much and the price that I just simply take dishes. If you were eating 1:4 dish:rice ratio, you would be getting a lot less salt. Also, it is a very hot climate ... so salt is more necessary in the diet.
My wife notes that 30 years ago when we were here, there was never so much vegetarian food. It seems that the vegetarian craze (more for health here than social/political/religious reasons) has picked up in the last 10 years. There is an interesting parallel with the USA here. The USA is one of the most overweight countries and diet/health food is a major economic sector. Taiwan is Asia's heaviest country and compared to 30 years ago, I now commonly see quite a few overweight Chinese here. Of course, this is nothing like the levels one sees in the USA. But it seems the diet/health food industry goes hand and hand with unhealth and spread of McDs.
---
Finally, not being able to read Chinese is not all bad. I was supposed to come back to the hotel and do the laundry while wife and friend take care of stuff. Unfortunately, I cannot tell which is the detergent and which is the softner or read any of the instructions. So, I guess that means I can go out on sub patrol this afternoon!
[Taiwan blog mode OFF]
Some exciting action off of Hitachi ...
07/29/42
15:19 - AC at 17kyds forces a crash dive. At the same time, we detect the load speed screws of a convoy. We head back to PD to investigate.
15:24 - Detect the first high speed screws of escorts. Two escorts. This will be a real attack.
15:34 - We have penetrated the screen! We will attack the first three lead ships. In retrospect, that might not have been the best choice with juicier targets further back. Also, being further away from the escorts when launching. But it was my first exposure to escorted convoy and they were making me nervous.
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15:46 - Salvo 3x2. Two ships sunk and two duds. We crash dive deep to the South right under the convoy hoping to be covered by the noise of the merchants and sneak out the back. The escorts begin pinging and searching as soon as the first fish strike.
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16:16 - The escort pings are fading towards the North.
16:47 - Contact broken.
17:38 - Planning to surface at 18:00 to recharge when LSS detected. Go to PD to investigate.
17:47 - PD. A small unescorted convoy moving slow at 7-8kts. At 4,000yds too far to shoot. We have an 80% charge and will allow the range to increase. Then, we will surface. Weather conditions seem write for a night surface slashing attack.
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Well, as much as I would love to prosecute this next convoy, I think I should go do some Mandarin lessons on my iPad.
I did want to ask for those conning Gato and Balao class subs, how do you get the most mileage out of your four stern tubes?
I imagine if you can get yourself perfectly positioned in a convoy, you could salvo 5x2. However, it seems in SHCE that the convoys tend not to be very wide compared to AOD or later in the SH series.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 29, 2012, 01:22:31 AM
Well, as much as I would love to prosecute this next convoy, I think I should go do some Mandarin lessons on my iPad.
I did want to ask for those conning Gato and Balao class subs, how do you get the most mileage out of your four stern tubes?
I imagine if you can get yourself perfectly positioned in a convoy, you could salvo 5x2. However, it seems in SHCE that the convoys tend not to be very wide compared to AOD or later in the SH series.
I often used the stern tubes on lone merchants or 2-3 merchant sized groups when my bow tubes are low, in these sub sims. Unless all the bow tubes were empty, then it's just a matter of being forced to use 'em. Also.. for finishing off the severely wounded ones that can't make enough speed to evade well - especially if it's risky using the deck gun (an armed merchant still firing their own, for example).
Too many of the merchants are armed in SHCE! The only thing the deck gun is good for SHCE is turning sampans into kindling. :)
As not to overly clutter this thread, I've posted photos from Taiwan here:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=3370.0
Well, I finally had to do the laundry, but now it is time to go after this unescorted convoy! :)
07/30/42 00:28
I let that convoy get out of sight rather than surface too close. Probably was a mistake, because I was unable to regain contact. They probably changed course North up the coast line after after we lost sight of them. Aargh!!!
Now, I am remembering why in the past when I played SHCE, I turned off the DUD TORPEDO option. It is so incredibly infuriating. Of course, I suppose in real life it was much worse to spend weeks in enemy controlled seas and risk your life for nothing.
08/01/42
08:21 - We spot a small convoy.
08:28 - We spot a single escort destroyer. The seas are rough and slow us down, but we maneuver ahead to get setup for the attack. We do have the rising Sun directly behind us; in both meanings.
08:49 - We got to PD and prepare for the attack.
09:11 - The convoy zigs and we reorient for a stern shot.
09:14 - We are only showing the scope for a few seconds every 3 minutes or so. The destroyer is running a race track pattern around the convoy. It literally passes within a couple hundred yards of us. We can hear the screws thrashing the water, and with the scope down everyone is thinking, "What if he has spotted us, and intends to ram us?".
These two screens show the destroyer completing its race track apex d*m close to us!
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09:22 - The setup is beautiful. We have two solid solutions on the two largest merchants varying between 1,000-2,000 yds, and the destroyer will be at far end of its race track when we shoot.
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09:26 - 2x2 stern salvo. All f**k*ng duds! We are crash diving deep with angry destroyer up our butt!
Curse those who say these fish are any good! They should be out here with us in 400' of water!
10:04 After banging away with its SONAR and circling the destroyer gives up and rejoins the convoy. We have escaped once again.
11:06 Surface! Surface! Surface!
All compartments show full readiness and we still have enough fish for two more attacks before turning for Midway.
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So, with exception of Nefaro and Oche (and possibly Herman lurking) is anyone else enjoying the patrol log of SS-212 in the waters off of Northern Japan?
This is good, Mark. I enjoy the good sub sims.
As to the stern tubes, both Dick O'Kane in Tang, and Otto Kretschmer in U99, liked to surface inside the convoy at night. From a center point, they got a lot of use from their stern tubes.
Ned Beach, who wrote quite a lot about the submarine war, Run Silent Run Deep, mentioned that it was a great help if the fish were about evenly expended from fore and aft.
Otherwise, there could be trim issues, keeping the boat level.
O'Kanes two books are the only two books of my sub collection that I kept to ship to Taiwan.
Besides being great reads they have kind of special significance, since they were all I had to read during 4 weeks in the hospital after a heart attack.
I'm enjoying it. Besides where else you going to get practice writing english? :P
Quote from: Bison on October 30, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
I'm enjoying it. Besides where else you going to get practice writing english? :P
哈哈哈！
If you like submarine novels, Beach's two World War II novels are great. His first one practically invented the genre.
Dust on the Sea, may actually interest a gamer more. It's probably too historically accurate to appeal to the general public, but it's about a wolfpacks' attempt to stop a Japanese convoy carrying a division from the Manchurian army to the Pacific islands.
Beach based this on a comprehensive study of the battle reports of the various american wolfpacks. It didn't find the audience that Run Silent, Run Deep did, so he stopped writing WWII stories.
One situation that I've never heard of in a computer game, but once when Trigger was diving, the captain, Dusty Dornin, slipped and fell into the periscope well.
His quartermaster managed to stop the periscope before it crushed him, and he got out with just some bruising.
Can you imagine this happening in a game? The howls of outrage as you lost an ace skipper to a banana peel?
Quote from: besilarius on October 30, 2012, 08:15:57 AM
This is good, Mark. I enjoy the good sub sims.
As to the stern tubes, both Dick O'Kane in Tang, and Otto Kretschmer in U99, liked to surface inside the convoy at night. From a center point, they got a lot of use from their stern tubes.
Ned Beach, who wrote quite a lot about the submarine war, Run Silent Run Deep, mentioned that it was a great help if the fish were about evenly expended from fore and aft.
Otherwise, there could be trim issues, keeping the boat level.
I'd prefer firing from both ends, at the same time, too. But the convoys in many of these games are so tight that getting inside like that means you're under minimum arming distance for your torpedoes quite often. :'(
Quote from: MarkShot on October 30, 2012, 05:37:47 AM
So, with exception of Nefaro and Oche (and possibly Herman lurking) is anyone else enjoying the patrol log of SS-212 in the waters off of Northern Japan?
Yes, I am. I don't always read every post, but I do check this thread whenever it's updated and I do read many of the posts.
I've always enjoyed sub sims, but haven't bought anything in many years. It seems enough to read what you post for now.
I've taken bow+stern shots in AOD where it is far easier to come to PD in a convoy of multiple columns. However, a Type VIIc U-Boat only has 4+1 tubes compared to the Gato Class 6+4.
I remember coming to PD well positioned in SH3/GWX and seeing convoys spread out across the water as far as you could see from the scope. (although the games I play are fun, the graphics are far from photo realistic) Anyway, that must have been an awesome sight in real life looking through the scope.
Quote from: MarkShot on October 30, 2012, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Bison on October 30, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
I'm enjoying it. Besides where else you going to get practice writing english? :P
哈哈哈！
BTW, if anyone was wondering about my response to Bison. That's "ha ha ha" in Chinese.
[Taiwan Blog Mode = ON]
Just came back from seeing a pretty nice apartment fairly close to here. Three bedrooms and 2 baths in fairly nice condition. Quite close to where we are now staying by National Taiwan University. However, this housing is pretty much across from the National Teachers University where they teach people how to be educators.
Apartment hunting seems quite different here than the USA. Although large development corporations actually build buildings, most units are a bought by relatively small investors. Chinese have always considered real estate to be a good investment and often think of putting their savings into real estate as opposed to the financial markets. So, we met the Landlady. A very nice woman who is a Professor of Nutrition at another local university. I like the location as it would mean that my wife is minutes away from her best friends.
The people in Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan have a very different view of time and space compared to Americans. For Americans, an hour commute each way to and from work is no big deal. Here, that seems oppressively far. Additionally, not sure if this is true of the Taiwanese, but for people from Macau and Hong Kong, they are much more impulsive. Activities often aren't planned and happen almost spontaneously. So, if we live a bus stop away from my wife's best friends, she will see a lot more of them.
So, my wife and her friend are doing most of the apartment hunting. They screen them, and I take a look at the few they like. Unlike the USA, there are no applications, criminal checks, credit checks, employment checks, housing checks, landlord/tenant court checks ... There is simply an interview with the landlord. If you make a good impression, then you can arrange to rent. Apparently, we did that today, since the Landlady asked us to "please consider it over the next few days" as opposed to saying that she would consider it. I was doing my best to score points: speaking two dialects of Chinese, previously lived and worked here for the military, and married to a Chinese wife for 30 years. So, it looks like we are going to nail down housing over the next week.
[Taiwan Blog Mode = OFF]
08/01/42 Our current offensive role ends.
Around midnight we spot a small unescorted convoy of 4 ships (two tankers). We are already in good position and come to PD to shoot.
This time we salvo 1x4 finishing our bow fish. Again duds. In setting up the close forward shot (2,000yds), we are dangerously close to a collision. After having observed our miss, we crash dive to get under convoy and bring our stern tubes around.
Once done, we come back to PD. Luck smiles on us. The convoy is scrambling. The tankers are evading right in front of our stern at practically point blank range (600yds). We fire two 1x2 salvos and sink two tankers!!!
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We are only back at Midway for 5 days:
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Sweet! New sub bling on that port visit! :D
Incredible! The Admiral wants to send us back to patrol Northern Japan again!
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Fortunately, I have some pull in Washington. It is time to patrol the Taiwan Strait.
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Oh, look at that! New orders! We are going to Taiwan! :)
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I'm pretty sure most Pacific sub sims dictate your patrol area by which port you're based at. Been that way in all the ones I recall ever since Microprose's Silent Service.
So I'm guessing Silent Hunter I only has a couple patrol zones for Japan that it chooses from, if you're based in Hawaii. Right? Although if you at Midway, you should probably get some stuff south of there, too, historically speaking.
I'm based at Midway.
Here, Oche, some photo realistic photos for you. :)
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Nice, don't forget to capture life guard assignment screens. For some reason i Always felt greater accomplishment after doing those in SH1 than in SH4.
Quote from: Oche on October 31, 2012, 07:25:43 PM
Nice, don't forget to capture life guard assignment screens. For some reason i Always felt greater accomplishment after doing those in SH1 than in SH4.
I actually skipped those things in the past, but I will give it a shot if it comes up. :)
Avoiding aircraft near Luzon..
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Quote from: Oche on November 01, 2012, 10:25:12 PM
Avoiding aircraft near Luzon..
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I don't know why I like that, but I do.
Thanks for sharing it.
I am actually taking a break and going to play the 1830PC Stock Market.
I haven't dug through all the pages, but from the beginning it seemed that Dangerous Waters was talked about?
Is there interest in playing this title multiplayer? If so, count me in as being interested.
If this thread has progressed towards SIlent Hunter (as would be logical from the screenshot above) then disregard. ;)
Quote from: Yskonyn on November 02, 2012, 05:02:12 AM
I haven't dug through all the pages, but from the beginning it seemed that Dangerous Waters was talked about?
Is there interest in playing this title multiplayer? If so, count me in as being interested.
If this thread has progressed towards SIlent Hunter (as would be logical from the screenshot above) then disregard. ;)
Mark was playing it for a stint, but he moved on to SH (and now moved back to 1830).
Well, I've never considered playing SC or DW MP.
Only my desktop could handle SC and DW. Once I packed it away, I was left with the laptop and AOD and SHCE.
I know Herman is always looking for MP action if you are interested in playing H3.
Out on patrol again. This time on the way to Taiwan. We are excited to see if the new radar will contribute to our attack prosecution.
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Oche gets his wish! (now I need to look this up in the manual to see what exactly I need to do)
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OOooo! Top Secret Ninja Sh*t! ;)
Probably have to "sneak" into a shallow harbor, with a couple destroyers watchin' the gates, and surface for a time (or some such). G'luck! Don't go dyin' on me! :P
From the manual:
Quote
Photo Recon Miss ion
The Photo Recon mission takes advantage of a submarine's ability to approach a target (hopefully)
undetected, gather valuable intelligence, and escape.
You are assigned to Photo Recon missions in campaigns via a radio transmission. In addition to the
radio message a red "T" icon appears on the chart screen over the facilities to be photographed. In
order to successfully complete a Photo Recon Mission the sub must move close enough to the target
area. A "red" light, located in the TBT or Periscope viewing area will indicate the sub is close enough
to take a picture. The "TAB" key is used to take the photograph. You know the mission has been
accomplished when the "T" icon disappears from the chart screen; this is accompanied by a voice and
text message stating "Mission completed, sir." Scoring - Each completed Photo Recon mission is
worth 500 points at the 100% realism setting. NOTE: Photo Recon missions can only be accomplished
during daylight hours. It is best to remain completely zoomed out (1x) in order to locate the area that
needs to be photographed.
Making best speed to Keelung harbor:
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:) Those shots look pretty good, MarkShot.
Good luck with the mission.
Looks like they remembered to close the back door!
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Niiiice thx ;). Wow, SH1 still stands up against the sequels, amazing. Let us know of your experience with the port defenses in Keelung when you creep up (if the captain decides to do so :) ) to take the photograph.
Oh, yeahhh.
That's what I thought - sneak in and surface in sight of an enemy port, in broad daylight, that will likely have destroyers patrolling about.
Fun, fun. And did I mention deadly, too? :P
Just got back from apartment hunting and looking at furniture. After 30 years, starting our lives from scratch again.
Well, I was thinking of making a daytime approach at RD at 1/3. The RD should give me a long warning on patrol boats while minimizing my profile. If it doesn't work I can abort.
I hope to try soon. I still get some other work I need to get done first.
08/30/42
07:07 - Started our approach at RD.
09:34 - AC! Dive! Heard distant explosions.
11:35 - AC again! Bottom the boat and wait two hours.
13:40 - Harbor patrol spotted and also pinging away. Continuing to close. 4nm to port.
(need a break; hard on the nerves; two destroyers in spitting distance; less than tablespoon of water to dive in; visible from any harbor air patrol)
08/30/42 15:11 - 2 destroyers pinging away just off the bow by a few hundred yards. Still trying to get in closer for the recon photos. It's going to really bad news if they find us.
Quote from: MarkShot on November 06, 2012, 09:12:32 AM
08/30/42 15:11 - 2 destroyers pinging away just off the bow by a few hundred yards. Still trying to get in closer for the recon photos. It's going to really bad news if they find us.
I'm on the edge of my seat. This is a case of "go big or go home." :)
It's more a case of "go big or don't ever go home".
I don't think I can get in with the two destroyers. The only option would be to sink them which is not all that easy. But there is a patrol plane circling overhead which then likely depth charge us.
I am going to try to circle around. Although I am concerned about turning the boat broadside to their active SONAR. On the other hand, if I back out first and come back in, there may not be enough breathable air left to get back out!
Personally, I would not give us very good odds. This may be first and last photo recon I attempt.
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17:45
We got our Kodak Moment!
Right full rudder! Let's get the H*ll out of here!!! (maybe we can sprint on the surface after night falls or maybe we can just use the rebreathers)
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20:00 - trading some battery to get fresh air, ahead 2/3s
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20:04 - Periscope depth; oh, glorious night!
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20:06 - Radar depth; destroyer patrolling at 18,000yds. Surface! Surface! Surface!
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20:07 - Head for deep water; ventilate; charge batteries - GOODBYE KEELUNG!!!
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And good riddance!
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Dude, I was on the edge of my seat. Great fun.
Man, you don't know what the meaning of naked is until you have two pinging destroyers circling 300yds off your bow and a patrol plane circling overhead with just 50' of water above the deck and 60' water below the keel. If one of your planesmen sneeze, you'll broach and die.
I would say that this was muy macho. The only thing mas mucho o estupido would have been to try to take out the two destroyers, sink as many anchored ships as possible, take the photos, and sail off into the sunset. For that you either get a citation or a purple heart.
PS: After Spanish being so important in the USA ... no one here speaks it. So, I am going to throw in un poquito here and there.
Quote from: MarkShot on November 06, 2012, 11:05:53 AM
PS: After Spanish being so important in the USA ... no one here speaks it. So, I am going to throw in un poquito here and there.
iAy carmaba! iLos tacos son muy delicioso!
Quienes las putas, amigo? No tengo mucho dinero.
That had to be a good feeling, pulling that photo recon off. Those can often be a tough nut to crack - I warned you! ;)
Tacos or whores epitomizing the "gringo stereotype" ... oh, well.
You know it is nice to be 13,000 miles away. The 20 million illegal Mexicans in the USA is unimportant, the black/white race issue is unimportant, the crumbling insurance/health care situation is unimportant, social security is unimportant ...
What's important is PRC & ROC relations, disputed islands with Japan, and a local recension, and an overheat real estate market. I say Chinese real estate is in a bubble, but my wife disagrees, because she sites cultural aspects that make Chinese real estate investment less likely to collapse than in the West. Chinese for hundreds of years of have seen real estate as the primary investment vehicle. They really don't believe in stock markets, commodity futures, municipal bond funds, mutual funds, etc ...
Quote from: MarkShot on November 06, 2012, 12:03:41 PM
Tacos or whores epitomizing the "gringo stereotype" ... oh, well.
You know it is nice to be 13,000 miles away. The 20 million illegal Mexicans in the USA is unimportant, the black/white race issue is unimportant, the crumbling insurance/health care situation is unimportant, social security is unimportant ...
Nice pics, job well done. 8)
Enough Chinese emails for one night! It's time to get back on patrol.
08/30/42 20:26 - Will set up a barrier patrol for shipping going in/out of Taiwan Strait North of Foochow and Keelung. This will be hunting in the shallows. Either I will need to attack on the surface at night or take longer shots in the day time to give me time evade. Until now, I've been shooting at 600-2000yds, but I'll need to look at 4,000yds to get away.
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We are now patrolling at less 1/2 our deep dive capability with roughly 200' under the keel. This will make us much more vulnerable. But one hunts where the prey is found.
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02:21 - Contact SJ; already closed 13kyds. It's a poor night for a surface attack, we will probably submerge when in visual range and observe.
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Calm sea and we are making 21 kts.
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Looks like four merchants and an escort on the SJ:
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02:26 - Viz; Dive Dive Dive!; level off at PD; up scope!
See the small blip wide on the right. That's an escort.
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02:45 Pretty shallow here. A very clear night, waiting to re-establish contact.
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03:00 PD no contact; they must have been sailing dead away from us; will try to surface and follow via SJ
03:04 - We lost them. Surfaced and back to barrier patrol. The fish that got away!
(My NiCD new phones are charged. Time to go play with the new phones and see if I can switch them to English.)
Love the rig for red light screens, thx again Mark.
It would have been better if I hadn't lose contact!
Finally, after a week of shopping and deliveries, I am back on patrol!
What I learned in the last two weeks is there this partitioning of knowledge in Chinese society of regarding everyday things. So, such things as a surge protector, grounded outlet, AMPs ... are not within the understand of Chinese women here, nor in their vocabulary sets (even when you go to a hardware store where they work). Often I read articles about USA IT and engineering that female students and employment lags behind males. It must be much worse here. I used to think that my nieces are being steered away from math, science, and engineering due to the personal biases of their mothers. But it is the whole society here.
And now back to patrol in SS-212, where everyone on board is a man and continuously studies every system on the boat to qualify for his dolphins. Thank G*d!
One thing I really don't like about the make partitioning in SHCE is that it limits you.
For example, take this contact report. It's too clear of a night to make a surface attack. Then, maybe I would want to set up for daylight submerged attack.
But I have no chance of doing that before the convoy simply runs off the map edge. If this was AOD, I would have as much time as I need to trail and setup the attack. So, I am just abandoning this one.
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How are you hosting your images?
I own my own domain associated with my former business in the USA. Although I dissolved the business, I continue to own/manage the domain. So, I just upload them to my own Web server.
Clearly I need my own domain too. It's good to be king!
Yeah I'm stuck trying to figure out the new photobucket interface. It's a complete debacle. Ok. I'm done with dragging your patrol reports off topic. Carry on Captain.
The reason a lot of my older images disappeared is that I had Comcast as my ISP for over 10 years. So, I was using them to host. But when I shut down my service ... poof.
In my new house, Chung Hwa Telcom, will be my ISP. It comes with Web space, but I think I will continue to use my own domain. We will currently have 20Mbps service, but that will change as they expand in the infrastructure. Although we will be living in Taipei, City, there literally is a vegetable farm plot right next to our building. So, it is an interesting mix of urban and rural as Taipei's sprawl spreads. (Also, it is illegal here to sell farm land to be used for real estate development without special allowances by the government.)
Our new apartment is wired for 1Gb Lan segment with CAT5E. I intend to use that for internal LAN only and create a second segment via WiFi to be used for the Internet. As this is the best security architecture.
Sent you an email about domain ownership.
Thanks. You should make friends with the farmer next door and get some fresh veggies.
Many people still shop for their produce at local indoor or outdoor markets within walking distance of their homes.
In the USA, "locally grown" by law means that it came from no more than 400 miles away (more than the length of Taiwan). {As the Green Movement in the USA promotes local produce to reduce fossil fuel usage for shipping to market.} In Taiwan, local market vegetables often came down from the mountain farms that morning.
Only got to patrol for 1hr RL. Yes, we spent the whole afternoon shopping again!!!
Imagine buying everything you ever owned but the clothes on your back in just a week and a half. Well, that is sort of what we are doing. It's a shame we are not using a credit card and that credit cards aren't so widely used here. We would be earning enough points for a free ticket back to the USA! :)