Command Ops 2 Limited Time Offer Bundle Pack Coming Soon
Panther Games and Lock 'n Load are proud to announce a special offer. To launch Command Ops 2 (CO2) we will be making a limited time offer. This will be valid for 90 days from the release date. The release date is yet to be confirmed. The bundle pack will comprise five modules, namely Highway to the Reich (Market Garden), Ride of the Valkries (Norther Bulge), Bastogne (Southern Bulge), Foothills of the Gods (Greece) and The Cauldron (Mediterranean). The bundle will be priced at $49.99.
The CO2 engine will be a separate product and will come with the tutorial and two other scenarios (Greyhound Dash and Manhay Crossroads). It will be provided FREE :D. You will have to register at Lock 'n Load to receive your serial number to install the game but that will be it O0. There will be no other cost to start playing. This is the ideal way to try out the engine with the full features. The engine will come with the full set of editors for developing data.
You can find out more about Command Ops 2 on our forums at
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/forums/command-ops-series.28/
Interesting. A rehash of the old titles in the new engine? Is this correct?
Good idea.
No this is not a rehash of old engines, but a whole new engine.
+1 O0
is there a comprehensive feature comparison list between the existing and the new improved 2.0 game(engine) ?
Quote from: Thrawn on December 08, 2014, 03:14:45 AM
No this is not a rehash of old engines, but a whole new engine.
That's what I said. New engine but old scenarios. Aegean, HTTR, Bulge.
Quote from: MikeGER on December 08, 2014, 03:16:26 AM
+1 O0
is there a comprehensive feature comparison list between the existing and the new improved 2.0 game(engine) ?
+ Another
So if I am understanding correctly, everyone can get the ops 2 engine with two scenarios for free, I assume sort of like a full featured but limited scenario demo. Then if you want all the scenarios converted from the ops 1 engine, you have to buy the bundle.
If you already own ops 1, is it safe to assume your existing scenarios won't work in ops 2 and will require the purchase of the bundle to upgrade them? In the bundle, will there be any new scenarios that are currently not included in ops 1?
And agree with others, would love to see a detailed list of enhancements in ops2.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/welcome-to-command-ops.839/page-2#post-2855
Quote[...]If you have already purchased BFTB (the original engine from Matrix, then you will be able to upgrade to the two Bulge modules at a 50% discount. If you had the HTTR and/or Greece data packs you can upgrade these at the same 50% discount. There will be five modules on sale when we release CO2 (HTTR, Greece, Med and two Bulge modules). These will each retail for $30. We will be offering a bundle discount as well based on the number of modules you purchase/upgrade at the one time. I haven't got the exact details just yet. [...]
What about the original HTTR (2003) that came right after Red Devils? Does that one count at all towards the new games?
Looks like a really nice deal. I traded my CO Battles from the Bulge and was sorry I did. Looks like I may have to buy in again! :)
Oh, wow. When did Panther leave Matrix?
Quote from: Ubercat on December 08, 2014, 10:12:07 AM
Oh, wow. When did Panther leave Matrix?
We posted it on the front page on 20 October
http://grogheads.com/?p=6388
edit:
They announced they were leaving Matrix in September
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11089
the LNLP announcement was in October
Isn't there east front scenarios planned for the CO 2.
Hrmm... whole package for $50?
That actually sounds reasonable. Got my interest.
First day buy for me. CO is one of the few games with a permanent place on my hard drive
Con
I wonder if unmounted ops are in now..thats the new feature I'm really wanting to see.
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 08, 2014, 06:49:24 AM
What about the original HTTR (2003) that came right after Red Devils? Does that one count at all towards the new games?
Based on the wording so far, I'm guessing not. Which is okay, that was like two or 2-1/2 engines ago.
I notice that buying the bundle pack is effectively a 66% discount ($50 instead of $150), so going that route gets
more of a discount than the loyalty discount of 50% each. Though I imagine LnL and Panther will be happy to accept all five modules bought with the loyalty discount instead. >:D :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
What I want to confirm is whether the Med pack includes all the missing missions from CotA, or whether a 3rd pack is on the way.
(Also, Day 1 buy for me, too. If I thought the bro would play games on his PC anymore, which for family reasons he can't really, I'd get two bundles.)
For those who didn't know, by the way, "Thrawn" is David Heath at LnL. So he's the publisher.
Quote from: JasonPratt on December 08, 2014, 02:58:09 PM
For those who didn't know, by the way, "Thrawn" is David Heath at LnL. So he's the publisher.
we all kinda figured that out here :) http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11932.0
:))
Re-buying the bundle is the way to go. I have no qualms about that. Lots of value in there and way cheaper than Matrix pricing.
Quote from: jomni on December 08, 2014, 05:01:02 PM
Re-buying the bundle is the way to go. I have no qualms about that. Lots of value in there and way cheaper than Matrix pricing.
I agree. Getting this for sure.
So what are the differences? between the engines apart from scenarios being separated?
From Dave 'Arjuna' O'Conner (one of the lead devs): (http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-changes.1010/)
Note that images are available at the linked thread above. (I tried to {img} them here, but the jpg reference didn't work.)
Arjuna started posting the changelist yesterday, and says more to the list is on the way.
The tl;dr version: mostly cosmetic so far, with some subtle but potentially important UI operations.
***************
Hi everyone. Here's the current list of changes/features that will be in the new CO2 engine. While we have made some minor Artificial Intelligence (AI) tweaks, our focus has been on improving the User Interface (UI).
* New Recording feature. When you play a game a recording is made and stored in the Recordings sub directory. You can select Replay on the main game menu and this will load the recording and allow you to replay it. The game will play through exactly as it was recorded or until you issue a new order, at which time you can start playing normally.
* New Overlay Feature. New map overlays have been added to display:
o Anti-Pers firepower (friendly and enemy)
o Anti-Armour firepower (friendly and enemy)
o Armour Concentration (friendly and enemy)
o Map Control (current friendly, old friendly, contested, old enemy and current enemy)
o Movement Rates (foot and motorised)
* New Force Icon Auto-scaling. Now force icons are auto-scaled (normal, small, tiny and invisible) depending on the map zoom level and force level. This can be enabled/disabled via the improved options dialog.
* New Extended Force Icon Information. In addition to the normal Unit Info Box on the unit icon we now show four extra info boxes (current task/status, deployment, facing and rout status) as an overlay next to the unit icon at the highest zoom level. This is an option that you can enable or disable. If the force icon is reduced to small, the default unit info box is shown next to the icon as an overlay.
* New Data Dialog Interface. The original data views in the sidebar are now independent dialogs which can be repositioned by dragging. Their last position is remembered between sessions. You can drag these onto a second monitor. So you can now configure your screen layout just how you like it.
* New Multiple Force Data Dialogs. You can now hold the shift key down when you open a force's data and instead of updating the "first" force data dialog it will create an additional data dialog. The "first" force data dialog will still be updated when you select a new unit on the map. Additional force data dialogs will not be updated. So you can now compare force data easily.
* New Multiple Selection in the Order of Battle (OB) display. Hold the Control key down while you click on an entry in the OB to add or subtract from the selection. The selection in the OB display is now synced to that on the map. So you can now select a force group in the OB display and issue orders without the need to locate each unit on the map.
* New Mil Green look. All Panther Graphical User Interface (GUI) elements revamped with new mil green look.
* New high res startup screen and images. We now have four hi res 1920 x 1080 startup images (Monty, Patton, Rommel and Zhukov) from which we randomly select one each time the game is run.
* New Scenario Selections Screen. Includes context image to provide you with visual context as to where this battle was fought; additional meta data provided for each scenario including start, duration and active unit count; the ability to sort the scenario list by name, start, duration or unit count. (This feature is still be developed. I'll post up screenshots as soon it is finished).
* Enhanced About Box. Increased the size of text, increased the dimensions of the scrolling credits list and updated game logo.
* New Game Options Dialog.
* All Game Options now saved between sessions.
* New Centre Map feature. Hold down the Home key and select a unit, crossing or waypoint to centre the map on the selection.
I'm confused. I already own Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge and the HTTR add on through Matrix. Do I have to re-purchase through Panther Games to get into this free upgrade to the newer version?
Quote from: Rayfer on December 10, 2014, 09:39:05 AM
I'm confused. I already own Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge and the HTTR add on through Matrix. Do I have to re-purchase through Panther Games to get into this free upgrade to the newer version?
The engine will be free, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to re-buy whatever modules you want. I'm guessing this initial discount is a way of softening the blow.
Quote from: smittyohio on December 10, 2014, 10:20:00 AM
Quote from: Rayfer on December 10, 2014, 09:39:05 AM
I'm confused. I already own Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge and the HTTR add on through Matrix. Do I have to re-purchase through Panther Games to get into this free upgrade to the newer version?
The engine will be free, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to re-buy whatever modules you want. I'm guessing this initial discount is a way of softening the blow.
Hmmm...more like a hard blow if indeed I have to repurchase Battles from the Bulge and HTTR.....they weren't cheap the first time!!
there are people who will pay a third time for the 'same' scenario eg. 'Conquest of the Aegean' then 'Command Ops: Battles for Greece' and now 'Foothills of the Gods' - it's more like an upgrade to the engine than a 'simple' update to the game. it's absolutely worth it!!!
edit: and one can still play the 'old' versions. it's not like they're broken or something.
For the first 90 days, you can get a pack that updates all (?) previously released missions to the new engine, at about the cost of originally paying for one of them.
Put another way, you'll pay for all of them at approximately what Matrix would have sold the second half if the CotA port. So if, like me, you were planning to get that port, in effect we'll be paying for it and getting all the other missions upgraded to the new engine for free.
Is all of this stuff with LnL digital games related to this news about Mark Walker...I always thought he was LnL publishing.
http://www.wargamer.com/news/8610/mark-h.-walker-founds-flying-pig-games
Been discussed in the board game section.
Looking forward to getting this. Updates of 3 games (or 4 games?) with a new engine (CO2) is a great deal.
But: a) Hope it runs on XP, all I have at the moment (it's not supported); and
b) Finding and navigating the lock N load site is a pain (they should have tried a more unique name.)
Quote from: Johnnie on December 10, 2014, 06:08:15 PM
a) Hope it runs on XP, all I have at the moment (it's not supported)
The official answer as of yesterday is "no" as well as "not supported anymore".
Quote from: RyanE on December 10, 2014, 05:55:45 PM
Is all of this stuff with LnL digital games related to this news about Mark Walker...I always thought he was LnL publishing.
http://www.wargamer.com/news/8610/mark-h.-walker-founds-flying-pig-games
Ryan - see notes here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11931.0
Mark sold LNLP over 18 months ago
Here's the interview from the
first time the company was sold, summer 2013: http://grogheads.com/?p=2165
Here are the articles from visit to Colorado with the most recent owner, David Heath, formerly of Matrix Games
http://grogheads.com/?p=6330
http://grogheads.com/?p=6360
You can follow the link above to talk about Mark's latest stuff with Flying Pig.
General LNLP discussion can go any of the following places
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=11932.0
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=12000.0
let's keep this one focused on Command Ops :)
Seems like a good deal, had Red Devils once, and thought about getting COTA at one time. Sorta miss Crete, maybe it's time to go back. Pass the tzatziki .
I think the bundle is the way to go here. You certainly get alot of superb gaming for that price esp if you haven't bought any of the previous versions or own just one or two, even if you have them all it's worth re buying.
Saying that I can't help but being a touch disappointed that mounted ops wasn't a new feature and the No 1 new feature at that, as things like the East front scenarios and Bil's platoon scale game are off the cards until it's implemented. Fingers crossed it isn't to far away.
As for the split I do think it's Slitherines loss and Lock N Loads gain. Command Ops was, along with Flashpoint Campaigns, the major titles I had a real interest in over there.
RISE THREAD I COMMAND THEE! ...um COMMANNNNDDDD OOPPPPPSSS!!
:D
I don't have any news, I'm just trolling for some because I'm lazy, thus giving someone (anyone) else the opportunity to alert us all on how things are going here.
On the other hand, for all I know it released weeks ago. :-[
Quote from: ArjunaSITREP 1645 Friday 23 Jan 2015
Hi all. I have finished off all outstanding tasks bar the issue of the disbanding bases as reported by Peter this morning and the need to replace the file icons we use. The current ones have BFTB all over them. Hopefully Marc von Martial who did the current set can work up a new set asap. On Monday I will look into the disbanding bases issue and then upload all the files to LNL who will then prepare the installer. We will need to test this before we can make it publically available. We ARE close. CO2 is coming.:)
I managed to be slightly less lazy and checked the forum. Go meeee! O:-) (And go Dave and Marc! :smitten: )
Between this and Black Sea, going to be expensive next couple of weeks:). And I want to pick up World War II europe....busy, busy, busy....then comes Attila...
I went over there for a lazy browse a few days ago and ended up spending 2 days redesigning the logos. In the middle of buying a house. I just couldn't resist a challenge.. :uglystupid2: Still, it got me a free copy, cheers again Dave! O0
Quote from: Pinetree on January 24, 2015, 11:05:41 PM
I went over there for a lazy browse a few days ago and ended up spending 2 days redesigning the logos. In the middle of buying a house. I just couldn't resist a challenge.. :uglystupid2: Still, it got me a free copy, cheers again Dave! O0
I saw that over there and was nice to see Dave give the audience a chance to participate, especially since you scored a nice free copy of the game:)
I was nervous when these guys changed publishers but now I'm delighted. I'm very much looking forward to this. Instant buy for me.
Quote from: panzerde on January 25, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
I was nervous when these guys changed publishers but now I'm delighted. I'm very much looking forward to this. Instant buy for me.
I was actually the opposite, I thought the change was good and needed based on perceptions. It always seemed (don't know whether true or not) that Command Ops took a back seat to every other game at Matrix and was always considered a lower priority for them, I am guessing because it likely had a smaller audience then their other games. It seemed when patches and new products were ready, Command Ops always seemed to get sent to the back of the line for release. My hope with them being at the new company is that we will see more frequent new updates and materials to keep things fresh and expand a good system to areas not explored. If it turns out to be the same as with Matrix, then I guess having a new publisher won't matter much, only time will tell. Hopefully the new company will have the same marketing power for computer games as Matrix since they certainly had a large audience of computer gamers to capture as they were exploring other products. Although the new company can certainly capture their existing audience of board gamers and hopefully convert some to computer gamers. I certainly wish them the best and will be interested in other computer game products they might sell.
Either way, anxiously await the next version and to see how this product line evolves in the future....
I should probably mention here if I haven't done so recently, that ComOps2 is one of my pre-designated exceptions to my resolution to mostly not buy new games this year. :)
Uh-uh...no way...nossir.
Buy this and resolve has fallen like...a thing that falls, sir!
You must sit here, with your character and resistance intact, while others describe the wonders of this "if you don't have this you are no wargamer" purchase to you. With little description, no pictures, and a lot of "oooh, that's cool!"
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 25, 2015, 01:01:42 PM
I should probably mention here if I haven't done so recently, that ComOps2 is one of my pre-designated exceptions to my resolution to mostly not buy new games this year. :)
It's not so much an exception as it is a requirement. O0
Now now, be fair! -- I called ComOps2 and Arkham Knight as specific exceptions from the beginning. And I've been pretty good about qualifying (mostly) in parenthesis from the beginning. O:-)
By the by...do we have any word on when the magic actually happens?
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
I may be missing something here - but I have all their games and they are good. But ... I have looked at the changes thread on the forum and none of the changes seem particularly earth shattering so perhaps I am missing something ?
Essentially ComOps 2 provides:
1.) a platform for the missing missions ported from Conquest of the Aegean (only half were ported into ComOps1)
2.) a few subtle but potentially important user interface improvements
3.) some visual improvements
Beyond that
4.) a platform for going forward with other operations (North Africa, East Front, Southern Europe, Overlord, etc. etc. etc.)
Ooooh this is tricky. Command Ops is one of "those" games for me. You know the ones - you feel you absolutely must have them...but then never play them. So now I'm thinking should I get the upgrade bundle on sale (because I absolutely must have it) or should I save my cash (because I won't play it any more than I do the original)?
^^ This, this, a thousand times this.
But my rationale is that I want to support the devs for what they're doing, even though I've never played three minutes of any of their previous versions I already own. :)
Quote from: Zulu1966 on January 26, 2015, 03:34:14 PM
I may be missing something here - but I have all their games and they are good. But ... I have looked at the changes thread on the forum and none of the changes seem particularly earth shattering so perhaps I am missing something ?
For me it is about staying current on the latest platform where future content and improvements will be made....I imagine the older versions won't be maintained after the new version is released.
Quote from: Father Ted on January 26, 2015, 04:55:45 PM
Ooooh this is tricky. Command Ops is one of "those" games for me. You know the ones - you feel you absolutely must have them...but then never play them. So now I'm thinking should I get the upgrade bundle on sale (because I absolutely must have it) or should I save my cash (because I won't play it any more than I do the original)?
I hate to say it, I have fallen into that camp as well.....however, I am vowing to really play this game after the new version comes out...it is absolutely the type of game I should love so not sure why I hold back sometimes. Time will tell, but I am for sure buying it:)
I find command ops to be like a nice cozy well worn sweater now. I have put the time in to really push myself to the top of the learning curve. Now I am intrigued to see CO2 and explore the differences. It stays on a permanent spot on my hard drive always one click away when I get frustrated playing another game (looking at you CMANO)
Con
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 26, 2015, 11:18:38 AM
Now now, be fair! -- I called ComOps2 and Arkham Knight as specific exceptions from the beginning. And I've been pretty good about qualifying (mostly) in parenthesis from the beginning. O:-)
Fair point! I was trying to give you an out though, even if you didn't. No one could possibly count purchasing this against your vow, owning it is pretty much a requirement!
Far be it from me to criticize anyone for buying games. I had Homeworld HD bought before the pixels finished drying on the new Steam page.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 26, 2015, 04:15:25 PM
Essentially ComOps 2 provides:
4.) a platform for going forward with other operations (North Africa, East Front, Southern Europe, Overlord, etc. etc. etc.)
A friend of mine is doing scenario development for them. Based on what he's shared with me, this last point is a big one. I think we're going to see a pace of module development we haven't seen out of Panther for awhile.
Darn it, just thinking about it makes me want to go play some of his scenarios. Which sucks, because I'm out of town and away from my gaming rig. And it's starting to snow. :tickedoff:
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 26, 2015, 04:15:25 PM
Essentially ComOps 2 provides:
1.) a platform for the missing missions ported from Conquest of the Aegean (only half were ported into ComOps1)
2.) a few subtle but potentially important user interface improvements
3.) some visual improvements
Beyond that
4.) a platform for going forward with other operations (North Africa, East Front, Southern Europe, Overlord, etc. etc. etc.)
You're not helping me resist this JP. Especially #4....!
^^ Have I recently mentioned it's free?
Because the game engine is totally free. :)
(Scenarios, no. Well, some are free, for demo purposes.)
Quote from: Con on January 26, 2015, 07:56:07 PM
I find command ops to be like a nice cozy well worn sweater now. I have put the time in to really push myself to the top of the learning curve. Now I am intrigued to see CO2 and explore the differences. It stays on a permanent spot on my hard drive always one click away when I get frustrated playing another game (looking at you CMANO)
Con
And what you say is likely where I have failed. I think it's one of those games where you really have to put in the effort to understand what is going on. I am pretty sure I am no where near that, and it's alas something I could say about a lot of games. I am in the camp that I know this is the very type of game I should be all over.
Damn I seem to have just found a reason to buy it again now.
Are there any details on the new UI, visual improvements? Recent screenshots?
Yep, have a look through this thread:
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-changes.1010/ (http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-changes.1010/)
I don't have this game, but this thread a raised my interest. Looking tat the vids on the Ytube it reminds me of 1980s Amiga game that played with modern US vs Soviets.
Damn, wish there were more modern era games.
Saw this posted by the dev at the official forums.....maybe getting close to the new version in our hands, right on the heels of CMBS. Busy and expensive times:)
"Got the final icons from Marc von Martial today. I will incorporate these on Monday and then package things up for LNL to work up the installer. Yeeha! "
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 26, 2015, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: Father Ted on January 26, 2015, 04:55:45 PM
Ooooh this is tricky. Command Ops is one of "those" games for me. You know the ones - you feel you absolutely must have them...but then never play them. So now I'm thinking should I get the upgrade bundle on sale (because I absolutely must have it) or should I save my cash (because I won't play it any more than I do the original)?
I hate to say it, I have fallen into that camp as well.....however, I am vowing to really play this game after the new version comes out...it is absolutely the type of game I should love so not sure why I hold back sometimes. Time will tell, but I am for sure buying it:)
Yep, yep, yep. Bought HTTR tried it sold it, bought it again never played much sold it again. I should have really bought COTA because I lived on Crete for awhile so it interests me, but I didn't. Now I really should get it as it seems a deal, and I'd like to support them. The problem is it's not like board games, you can't just throw it in your closet, and play it 15 years from now when you've finally retired and finally have the time. lol
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on January 31, 2015, 09:53:18 AM
Saw this posted by the dev at the official forums.....maybe getting close to the new version in our hands, right on the heels of CMBS. Busy and expensive times:)
"Got the final icons from Marc von Martial today. I will incorporate these on Monday and then package things up for LNL to work up the installer. Yeeha! "
Just a quick update on this....the beta that is coming out soon is just the core engine and (3) scenarios.....the actual big bundle with all the past content still has to be converted and the developer suggested it would minimally be a couple of weeks. It still will be fun to get a sneak peek at the new updates with the included scenarios.
Quote from: Con on January 26, 2015, 07:56:07 PM
I find command ops to be like a nice cozy well worn sweater now. I have put the time in to really push myself to the top of the learning curve. Now I am intrigued to see CO2 and explore the differences. It stays on a permanent spot on my hard drive always one click away when I get frustrated playing another game (looking at you CMANO)
Don't be shy, tell us what's giving you a hard time :) . (Preferably on the CMANO thread (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4065.new;topicseen#new) so that we can track any issues easier).
Thanks!
Looks like public beta early next week...
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-9
Looks like the beta release is expected this next week...let's hope it keeps to schedule....from what I can tell there will be five modules, each ranging in $30-$35 price range, but a commander pack which includes all five will also be available for purchase, which initially will only be $50 for first 90 days....after that, the commander pack will minimally cost a $100 or more.
Even if you don't want the modules, you can still download the main game engine with a few scenarios for free.....looking forward to getting deeper into this game with this new release, hopefully future content will come out more readily since looking forward to new stuff versus what has already been released.
I'll be picking this up[again :)].... looking forward to mounted ops in the east front modules. Wonder if it would be ok to give away the older versions, hate to see them just languish.I'll never re-install after buying the new ones. Opinions: can i give them away with a clean conscious? I have all 3 and would like someone to enjoy them.
Quote from: RyanE on February 27, 2015, 03:23:10 PM
Looks like public beta early next week...
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-9
I believe CO2 is being released next week...not beta
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-11#post-4708
Quote from: Rekim on March 08, 2015, 07:09:23 PM
Quote from: RyanE on February 27, 2015, 03:23:10 PM
Looks like public beta early next week...
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-9
I believe CO2 is being released next week...not beta
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sitrep.1107/page-11#post-4708
Pretty sure it will be considered a public beta upon release....quote from developer during the process.
SITREP 1640 Tuesday 24 Feb 2015
Good news folks. I have finally squashed this stack overflow crash bug and fixed the map zooming issue. they were inter-related. I am just uploading now the stuff to LNL. They will work up their installer. We'll test it and then it should be right to go out to you all as a public beta.
releases on Monday
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/when-to-expect-command-ops-2.1197/
oooh sheeeet! :D
I have to say the first release with the new company didn't feel much different than past releases with matrix based on the delays (believe originally was supposed to be released before Xmas) and then issues with building installers and the store front. Hopefully, just a one time experience with releasing the first version under the new company versus being the normal process since one of my hopes with the new company was more timely releases of updates and new content.
Even with that said, still looking forward to it and will be picking it up near release, just might wait a little bit to ensure no issues with the install process since new.
getting the commander pack within the 90 days for 49.99 is a no brainer if you have any interest in the game.. Looks like the regular price after 90 days is $159.95
http://lnlpublishing.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=72
Absolutely.
I let my previous versions go for charity - so I'll be getting these.
I really hoped the next version of CO would have had mounted Ops and be the East front game...oh well..though I have all the releases I will buy this aswell.
I was just looking around at the new store page for the core game and modules and looked at the page concerning the core engine itself....was a little puzzled on what it said. I bolded the part below that puzzled me where it says "Free for a Limited Time!"....I had thought the whole new pricing model was based on getting the core engine always free, while we had to pay to only for upgrades to all of our module content. This seems to imply that at some point we will also have to pay for the core engine itself on top of the modules, which then doesn't seem like anything different from when it was at Matrix. Although I like the game series and really was looking forward to getting more deep into it with the next version being released on Monday, I don't know if I can keep re-buying a new core version and all my same content that I previously bought each time a new version comes up.
http://lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-core-engine
Free for a Limited Time!
The Core engine provides the Command Ops 2 game application which has been extensively updated with a new user interface (UI) and enhanced artificial intelligence (AI). The smartest and most realistic operational level wargame just got a whole lot better. Command like a real commander in this pausable, continuous time simulation of WW2 operational warfare, where the emphasis is on planning, anticipating and reacting to enemy developments. This is not a click-fest and you don't have to issue orders to every unit. The world's smartest operational level AI can be trusted to do a reasonable job of managing your forces. Also included are the editors ( MapMaker, EstabMaker, EstabEditor and ScenMaker ) for modifying or developing your own scenarios. The Core comes with three scenarios, including the tutorial Return to St Vith, Manhay Crossroads and Greyhound Dash, all focussed on the epic 1944 Battle of the Bulge.
It looks a bit more complicated :
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/command-ops-2-limited-time-offer-bundle-pack-coming-soon.998/page-3
If this is the case I will spend in one year:
0$ CO2.0
50$ data pack
50$ CO 2.1
50$ updated data pack
50$ CO 2.2
50$ updated data pack
So 250$ per year to constantly be up to date with your game. Is this right?
No there will be no charge for the updates to the engine. The engine will always be free. You only pay to buy or upgrade data modules. If we put out a major upgrade to the engine then you will need to upgrade your data modules if you want to run them with the latest engine. But you are not obliged to upgrade your data modules. You can instead use the older version of the engine to run them.
Example. in the next twelve months we plan to put out CO2.0 and CO2.1 as major updates to the engine. If you want to keep your data modules up to date with each engine update then you will pay $50 to update them to 2.0 and another $50 for 2.1 - ie a total of $100. We plan to put out the KOAD and Westwall data modules in the first half of next year at $30 each. Subject to when we finish the 2.1 engine update with mounted ops feature we plan to then release one maybe two east front modules. Let's assume we achieve that, then the most you would spend in the next twelve months would be $100 for updates plus $120 for new data modules. That's a total of $220. In effect you will have acquired five new data modules (Med, KOAD, Westwall East Front 1 and East Front 2). If we had sold each as a separate game then you would have paid something in the order of $250 and you would have not been able to play all your scenarios with the latest engine.
I would like to reiterate this point. You don't have to upgrade all or some of your data with each engine update. You could for instance opt to delay purchasing the 2.1 upgrade for instance till the 2.2 update comes out. Then you could buy the new modules for it and those for the earlier 2.1 update. This would save you $50.
Hmmm, given that information and for a game that I probably won't ever play that much it might not be worth it to spring for the initial pack...if I want to keep it up to date, that is. After all, I have all the originals and they seem to work fine. :-\
It amazes me sometimes why there seems to be this desire nowadays to make something more convoluted than it has to be.
So if I buy the command ops pack tomorrow...it's a lot of game for the price. But when a major upgrade comes out, I'm $50 for the upgrade - and each upgrade after...if I wanted? And also for modules?
What if I don't buy the 2.1 upgrade....when it gets to 3.0 and I think "Those changes are worth it"...do I have to buy each upgrade between 2.1 and 3.0 or can I just upgrade to 3.0? :uglystupid2:
This just went from a Day One buy for me to "wait and see if they come to their senses." $220 to $250 per year to keep this game updated? :uglystupid2:
This makes Battlefront's pricing model seem perfectly reasonable by comparison.
You have to repay full price for every update?
I know this is a small, independent publisher, but this sounds simply crazy.
Well, I actually probably will be it right away just to get the bundle pricing - I don't want to end up getting stuck for even more money down the line to get this. Nonetheless I think their pricing model is hopelessly broken.
One could spring for the special pricing now and hope that the prices for the upgrades go down or go on sale a lot a la Digital Combat Simulator.
Wait, what?
Wow...just wow. I love these guys and their games, but that's completely twitter-pated. Quite honestly, this almost makes me angry it's so ridiculous...and one ought never get angry about a game you haven't spent money on.
Glad I kept my Matrix versions...
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 15, 2015, 10:02:22 AM
This makes Battlefront's pricing model seem perfectly reasonable by comparison.
You have to repay full price for every update?
I know this is a small, independent publisher, but this sounds simply crazy.
Reading in the thread on the LnL forums, it sound like they intend to do some bundle upgrade pricing for all of the modules you own, capped at $50. So, to stay current at two major engine updates a year puts you at $100 if I'm understanding it correctly. Better, but that's still $100
just to stay current.New modules are going to add $30 per on top of that.
This is excused by saying "upgrading is optional and up to you." Except, of course you won't be able to play new content if you don't upgrade the engine, and who wants to keep multiple versions of the engine around to play the content packs you didn't upgrade and the new content packs using newer versions of the engine?
It's certainly a different approach. I'm someone that doesn't complain about Matrix or Battlefront pricing, and even I think this is nuts. If you're scaring me off, you're scaring off your core market.
There is certainly confusion in the marketing at least. What does "Free for a limited time" mean if the core engine is always free but nothing else is free? What the hell is left over to be free for a limited time??
And if the core engine is always free, and only the data packs cost anything -- which seems like a reasonable model to start with anyway, the core functions as the demo, pay what you want to play with beyond that -- then why should there be charges for updating the core engine?
And what exactly is being paid for in data pack updates? If it's extensive new scenarios that's one thing. If it's fixing bugs in the engine as they come to light from further playing...
:'(
I love Panther Games, and I do want them to succeed and thrive, and snagging the opening package is still on my things to do tomorrow (or asap next week, whatever), but this is a major blow to my confidence going forward. "No, keeping updated for the year won't cost you $250, only $220, see?" uh.... that's... that's not significantly any better... "Okay how about $100 a year just to stay current on the content you already have, not for new content? That's what we mean. Just remember it's free for a limited time!"
Quote from: panzerde on March 15, 2015, 10:26:10 AM
It's certainly a different approach. I'm someone that doesn't complain about Matrix or Battlefront pricing, and even I think this is nuts. If you're scaring me off, you're scaring off your core market.
QFT
My reason for posting in the first place was because it seems like the core engine might be a fee at some point, which is different then what was said at the start that justified charging for all the modules. Now it looks like we might not be just charged for modules, but for both some day. I was ok paying for the modules if the engine was free because I justified it in my mind that I would typically be paying for the core upgrade of other products anyway, so I thought it would be a wash especially if the module bundle was $50 (typical cost of a game like this). But if another fee gets put on top, then I am not so sure.
Either way, I'll be buying this first bundle, just not sure about the future. I agree with JD, not sure why they needed to over complicate things, you know its crazy when it takes a lot of discussion for people to understand exactly what the pricing policy is....shouldn't be that hard. As I said earlier with the delays, I really don't see a lot different happening with this new company, compared to the old company....hopefully just growing pains.
Hey folks - I'm not going thru the entire forum to address stuff point by point, but I got off the phone with David H just 5 minutes ago. He's getting on a plane to Las Vegas for GTS right now and will pop in here when he gets a second after landing.
The plan is to give away the core game + 2 scenarios free for the first 90 days (at least) and keep them free for as long as possible after that.
This eliminates the need for a demo, because you get the full game + full manual for free (the initial manual is still in beta b/c Dave O is still going thru it, but they didn't want to hold up the game just for the manual)
Each 'scenario' pack - what was previously a full game like Highway to the Reich - will be a paid download (I think he mentioned $20-$50 or so, but don't hold me to that).
There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to turn this into a subscription model.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.
Don't ask me to clarify beyond that - I'm trying help David H out by getting some info out quickly while he's on a plane. He'll be along to answer questions when he can get some time around GTS, but this is a pretty busy few days for him and LNLP, so it might be a little bit before he can show up to answer.
Meanwhile, I'd recommend we all take a deep breath and dial back the speculation until we can get real answers. No point getting all foamed up at the mouth without the facts :)
What is meant by "engine upgrade" anyway? Is this like a patch? If so, why isn't it free? If its more significant improvements to the core engine, why are these already planned in the future and not included in the v2.0 release from the beginning?
Ninja'ed by Brant...
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 15, 2015, 10:54:30 AM
There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.
Thanks for the update... but I don't see how these 2 jive with what LnL and Arjuna have stated on their very own forums. Maybe they've scrapped their model and haven't posted it, but I sure didn't see it in the thread they were discussing pricing. My guess is it's going to be all semantics. If they do go ahead with this scheme, they are going to crash and burn. Either a) they will be supporting way too many versions of an engine / scenario pack combination, or most likely b) once they move on, you better move on with them or live with all the bugs in what you have.
This game just went from a must-buy for me to a ho-hum maybe I'll finally give Battlefront my money. Hopefully they can sway me back, but if not it's their loss.
LOL... deleted... I thought I was replying to a post today, not December :(
Foamed up sans facts is why Al Gore built the Internet with assistance from space aliens, right?
It's also why GMOs give you autism.
Oh, and close the Fed!
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on March 15, 2015, 10:54:30 AM
There are ZERO plans to make people 're-buy' stuff each year.
There are ZERO plans to turn this into a subscription model.
There are ZERO plans to charge people for upgrades to the scenarios.
From developers perspective this could be sustainable only if they can make new modules on regular basis. For example, when they upgrade engine, they will also upgrade existing modules for free, plus offer new module(s) for buying. In that case, if you don't want to expand your scenario portfolio just upgrade engine and scenarios you already have. On the other hand, if you want to play new module which for example contains east front scenarios, you will have to buy it. That would be reasonable. I hope Dave will clarify this.
I already have all modules for Command Ops I. Paying again $50 is not big deal for supporting further development but paying same (or any other) amount of money again and again for the same bunch of scenarios is not something that most customers will do.
Quote from: Cyrano on March 15, 2015, 11:27:46 AM
Foamed up sans facts is why Al Gore built the Internet with assistance from space aliens, right?
Well, to be fair, people aren't speculating
sans facts, but by reading what the developer and publisher posted on their own site, although maybe not in a crystal clear fashion. If those facts have changed, so be it.
here's the way i understand it. Engine upgrades free, small fee to upgrade your currently owned packs or you could choose not to upgrade your packs if your happy with them and then the selling of new data modules. With free engine upgrades version control shouldn't be an issue....right.
That being said i will be picking this up, i like the new changes and even if i don't buy anything else $49 for around 80 scenarios is a steal. I just don't know how the user created scenarios will fit in with the continuous engine upgrades.
Quote from: -budd- on March 15, 2015, 01:58:17 PM
here's the way i understand it. Engine upgrades free, small fee to upgrade your currently owned packs or you could choose not to upgrade your packs if your happy with them and then the selling of new data modules. With free engine upgrades version control shouldn't be an issue....right.
That being said i will be picking this up, i like the new changes and even if i don't buy anything else $49 for around 80 scenarios is a steal. I just don't know how the user created scenarios will fit in with the continuous engine upgrades.
Define "small fee"...
Quote from Arjuna: "Example. in the next twelve months we plan to put out CO2.0 and CO2.1 as major updates to the engine. If you want to keep your data modules up to date with each engine update then you will pay $50 to update them to 2.0 and another $50 for 2.1 - ie a total of $100."
Note what's not clear is if it's 50 per data module or 50 no matter how many you have. They really need to clearly define what their pricing scheme will be,
and what their plans on supporting non-current versions of their engine and data packs is.
I guess we'll wait to hear more, although it's hard to see how Brant's description squares with the model outlined by the other devs...
'Small fee to upgrade' I can live with. Essentially what Battlefront does -- pay for new modules (as is fair), small fee for engine upgrades I can stomach (whether 'fair' is debatable, but the 3.0 upgrade was $10, so again, not back breaking).
I'm all for supporting small indy devs who produce outstanding content, like Battlefront. I understand there's a certain premium this entails, and I'm willing to pay extra since games like CMx2 are so great. But there's just no way that re-charging full price for upgrades is a viable model. No way will I be purchasing the game under those circumstances.
QuoteQuote from Arjuna: "Example. in the next twelve months we plan to put out CO2.0 and CO2.1 as major updates to the engine. If you want to keep your data modules up to date with each engine update then you will pay $50 to update them to 2.0 and another $50 for 2.1 - ie a total of $100."
I think this is the info David H sent me a text message about saying "Dave {O'Connor} toss{ed} the idea around of a subscribstion service that idea was cancelled almost at once. I am guessing that is where that idea came from."
All hail to Brant for getting some word back from a dev! :smitten:
I'm not against regular support for ongoing development (if it's actual development and the support is proportional to the development, like small upgrade charges at BF every once in a while).
We'll get clear info from Dave or whoever soon. In the meantime, the worst case scenarios are:
1.) All the previous games still exist and are the previous games.
2.) The introductory bundle deal is still the introductory bundle deal, and is still being offered, and if they somehow go insane later that won't have changed: it isn't like what we buy tomorrow/this week will poof out of existence. We all agree the bundle is an acceptable deal, except for those people who aren't interested in what looks like paying again for some small upgrades and a platform changeover, and they weren't thinking of rebuying anyway, so what happens later along the same content is a moot point. (I mean to them.)
I just checked the LnL website and noticed that the Bundle Pack was available. Couldn't help but pull the trigger.
I hadn't received the notification email from LnL that I signed up for yet, so assume I must have been one of the first in line. The transaction went smoothly and received confirmation/download link within a minute. Don't see a serial number yet and will have to wait until I get home from work and get some sleep before I try the download link. Now have some fun to look forward to on my days off (Monday/Tuesday). Perfect timing of the release for some 8)
Hi,
I also pulled the trigger, .. and purchased the whole thing, .. downloaded and installed.
The Serial Numbers are not sent to you. You need to login to your account, .. and check under Downloads.
.. all your Product Codes/Serial numbers will be listed there.
Cheers
Tom
For those of you that bought the whole shebang, the Situation maps are coming, I've completed the maps for Bastogne and I'm a quarter of the way through Ride of the Valkyries. I'm releasing them to Dave when I've done both as they are interlinked and I want to make sure there are no errors. Dave will then release them in a future patch.
at least i got the Core engine this morn to check out the UI improvements and the online store handling :)
From the few minutes i spend with it
it looks like Command Ops still doesn't like a general Windows-OS text-size setting of 125% i use all day instead of tiny 100%
Also the counters are so small even in the highest zoom in magnification
Dave or Gents, is there a way (or a workaround) to increase their size?
IIRC, in the last installment of the game i used a lower resolution then that native to my LCD, but this workaround seems to doesn't work anymore.
I think i am not the only one in the general wargaming community (age group) with increasing bad eye sight over all those years ;)
so maybe an 'enlarged chits' option is also an idea to add to the feature list for a (free) 2.01 patch or the (charged) 2.1 version
Just bought my copy. Lets hope I can keep it up to date without re-mortgaging the house and selling the kids :crazy2:
I know GAMA is underway, but do we have any sense when we'll be hearing about the 100% real, bona fide, thus-it-shall-be pricing plan for this go-forward.
It predicates my purchase decision.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Sorry dude, I don't know when either Dave will pop in here w/ an answer
Best to post over on the LNL Forum; Support is pretty active there now after the release.
Hi,
Is anyone else, .. who has purchased CO 2, .. experiencing performance problems?
I'm finding the game kinda sluggish, ... and slow.
I ran a test on CO 1 vs CO 2, .. with the 'Battle of the Crossroads' scenario (Bastogne) & (using the exact same conditions and settings), .. and ran each test 3 times to allow for variance.
Ran the tests at full accelerated time .. i.e. >>> , .. and let it run from 06:00 to 18:00 in game time.
Avg time for CO 1 was 3 mins 42 secs.
Avg time for CO 2 was 15 mins 46 secs. !!! ... difference of 12 mins. !!!
With CO 1, .. even at accelerated time .. unit movement across the map is very fluid.
With CO 2, .. the units tend to stutter, jerk & jump around the map.
I also appreciate that the AI may be a bit more complex now, .. but surely not to the extent that the program just bogs down. :o
I am going to post this question/query over on the LnL forums, .. but, I'm having some issues with their forums and my browser (IE 11), .. where the webpage(s) are stalling etc..
Cheers
Tom
Quote from: Thomasew on March 16, 2015, 11:00:10 AM
Is anyone else, .. who has purchased CO 2, .. experiencing performance problems?
I'm experiencing something similar and posted about it on official forum. Here is the entire message:
QuoteWhen I select HQ unit while in RTS mode games slows down to a crawl. Time on Controls panel is running noticeably slower and I can hardly scroll map.
It seems this only happens when selected unit is HQ. After deselecting unit, game speed is going back to normal again and scrolling is smooth. Also, I tested this on laptop and same thing occurs. I have Command Ops I installed and everything runs fine.
My configuration: Intel i5 750 2.67GHz, 8GB RAM, NVidia 770 GTX, SSD Disk, Win 7, 24" monitor.
Hey Emir,
Thanks for confirming, .. and kudos for determining it was related to an HQ unit. In my tests, I always had the HQ selected, so that I could watch the pathing etc..
.. I just tried my test again, .. but deselecting the HQ unit, .. before starting the test.
.. time to complete .. 4 mins 50 secs. So, .. not quite as fast as CO 1 (3 mins 42 secs) , .. but a darn site better than 15 mins 46 secs. :)
Thank for your input.
Cheers
Tom
I'm seeing more than a few reports to this effect as I read stuff today. I haven't had a chance to download it myself yet, but will this evening.
I had been seriously considering purchasing the bundle pack right off. But with the likely possibility of having to pay for updates for the vast majority of the content, I'll just spend the money elsewhere.
I don't want to worry about some bug or performance issues forcing me to pay more if I want them eventually fixed. More so if this is a situation that would continue to repeat itself. There are always bugs & issues in any new release, even re-releases, that need to be ironed out over a long period and this mysterious update scheme should make anyone wary. Am I being an unreasonable customer, here? ???
Quote from: Nefaro on March 16, 2015, 01:12:07 PMAm I being an unreasonable customer, here? ???
Nope.. given that the last posts from anyone on LnL forums around pricing indicated fees (not insubstantial) to keep your scenario packs working with each (free) major upgrade, I don't know how anyone could call you unreasonable. The post Brant made from his conversation with David Heath would indicate they've backed off of that, but why didn't they put that on their site? Any there's still wiggle room in there they need to clarify.
It's been said bugs will be fixed and aren't part of an upgrade. Major features are the stuff in the upgrades. I'm not worried about bugs they have always been at supporting there games. At its current price and content I wouldn't pass it up. Just my opinion. Hopefully Dave will pop in and ease peoples mind.
I'm a bit stuck...
I've downloaded the pack and when I decompress it, there are 5 modules. First off, they all look considerably smaller than I remember the game did in my Matrix versions - but more than that I don't see a core game. So do I just install the modules?
nm...the installer told me to install the core game :2funny:
Is there some kind of discount if we own the old games (from Matrix)?
Quote from: Cougar_DK on March 16, 2015, 02:24:48 PM
Is there some kind of discount if we own the old games (from Matrix)?
Nope, commander pack discount is for everyone, plus core game free for now.
so i understand this correctly as someone who never fell in love the with the first game and thinking about trying again - the core game is free?
what do you actually get for free?
^Just the core game engine, a Tutorial and 2 scenarios.
Quote from: steve58 on March 16, 2015, 03:43:53 PM
^Just the core game engine, a Tutorial and 2 scenarios.
enough to evaluate a full purchase you reckon?
ive laways thought i was missing out on something with these - maybe im too much of a control freak for the command point of view!
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2015, 03:33:57 PM
so i understand this correctly as someone who never fell in love the with the first game and thinking about trying again - the core game is free?
If you didn't like the original game, I'm not sure this is going to swing it for you TBH. It seems more of an evolution of the game and its interface, than any ground breaking new direction.
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2015, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: steve58 on March 16, 2015, 03:43:53 PM
^Just the core game engine, a Tutorial and 2 scenarios.
enough to evaluate a full purchase you reckon?
ive laways thought i was missing out on something with these - maybe im too much of a control freak for the command point of view!
Correct...that is one advantage to this new model if it stays free, you can try the full game with a few scenarios before you buy....
http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/command-ops-2-one-of-greatest-wargames.html
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2015, 03:51:51 PM
ive laways thought i was missing out on something with these - maybe im too much of a control freak for the command point of view!
Well, you
can control all your units, or most , or some. To my mind, though, the fun is in delegating to the AI and then having to deal with the consequences. Where I struggle is in deciding at what level to intervene.
I would recommend getting the freebie, though. Nothing to lose and there's a lot of fun to be had in learning the game and playing through the tutorial
So far I have downloaded the free version....fully plan to buy the modules, just wanted to see how everything went first. I am having issues with weird black screens when you choose a specific resolution to run at, for me 1920x1080....turns all background black.....but if you choose the match to desktop option, seems to work....opened a ticket this morning haven't heard anything but guessing they must be busy. Not a big deal since I can run under the other option. Some of the performance issues mentioned have me concerned, but I haven't played it much yet to see it myself.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 05:07:26 PM
So far I have downloaded the free version....fully plan to buy the modules, just wanted to see how everything went first. I am having issues with weird black screens when you choose a specific resolution to run at, for me 1920x1080....turns all background black.....but if you choose the match to desktop option, seems to work....opened a ticket this morning haven't heard anything but guessing they must be busy.
I had the exact same issue also. Run the game to match desktop (which is probably 1920x1080 anyways) and it works ok.
I started the Road to St Vith scenario, but have completely forgotten most of the mechanics from the first game, so had to tentatively pick my way through movement planning and what not. Also, the moveable windows are a bonus, but I had trouble getting to the ones I expected to be available in the side panel. So there is a tiny bit of adjustment to begin with. Not much. Only if you have the bad memory of an old man. :) Looks good. Just wished the equipment database with images were a bit bigger. I've always though the abstract nature of the chits on map, could be livened up a bit with some nice larger real world imagery. Like CMANO does very well.
Quote from: Cyrano on March 16, 2015, 09:41:26 AM
I know GAMA is underway, but do we have any sense when we'll be hearing about the 100% real, bona fide, thus-it-shall-be pricing plan for this go-forward.
It predicates my purchase decision.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
One other item to add to the list for clarifications is the number of times you can download the game/modules....pretty sure it was mentioned it would be unlimited downloads...but looking at my store account and download count, I started with (10) and down to (9) after downloading, which implies there might be some limit. Not a huge deal since I doubt I will exceed that and I have it backed up, but just could of sworn a company rep said it would be unlimited.
Quote from: undercovergeek on March 16, 2015, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: steve58 on March 16, 2015, 03:43:53 PM
^Just the core game engine, a Tutorial and 2 scenarios.
enough to evaluate a full purchase you reckon?
ive laways thought i was missing out on something with these - maybe im too much of a control freak for the command point of view!
I'm here as well. Never got the first series. But I will download this and try the free stuff to see if it's something I'd like.
Downloading it now. I really enjoyed the earlier games and played them a lot. If you want something very like a boardgame that indulges a lot of micro-management and you have complete control over everything all of the time, this isn't that. If you're looking for something that, somewhat like Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm lets you experience what it's like to be a general - planning attacks, issuing orders, and then getting reports back about how things are progressing, this is a good choice.
I'm not yet convinced the changes to this version are worth the price, but I'm willing to be convinced. I'm also more than willing to pay a premium to support companies that are producing actual wargames of the sort I like to play, recognizing this is a niche hobby. So, no complaints on my end for having to drop $50 to essentially repurchase what I already own with some UI and AI tweaks. I hope future upgrades and modules justify the investment.
What!!! $50 to buy the same games I already own...of wait, Panther Games? OK, I'm in.
Getting prompted for a serial number for the core game, but I have none. Not in My Account/Downloads, wasn't emailed to me, nowhere. I do have serials for the Commander's Pack, but those don't seem to work. Am I missing something?
Quote from: panzerde on March 16, 2015, 06:48:22 PM
Getting prompted for a serial number for the core game, but I have none. Not in My Account/Downloads, wasn't emailed to me, nowhere. I do have serials for the Commander's Pack, but those don't seem to work. Am I missing something?
I go to my account, under downloads...then on lefthand side of the screen there is a product code....I used that product code as the serial number and it worked for me.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 06:55:04 PM
I go to my account, under downloads...then on lefthand side of the screen there is a product code....I used that product code as the serial number and it worked for me.
Yeah, I have those for the modules but nothing for the core game. That's where I'd expect to find it, but I got nothin'. At least one other person is seeing the same thing.
Thanks for the confirmation that it should be there. Thought I was overlooking something obvious.
Quote from: panzerde on March 16, 2015, 06:48:22 PM
Getting prompted for a serial number for the core game, but I have none. Not in My Account/Downloads, wasn't emailed to me, nowhere. I do have serials for the Commander's Pack, but those don't seem to work. Am I missing something?
Go to your account profile, and click on downloads. Should show up under your order. I got just the core engine also, and was a little confused on this point too.
Edit.. I'm too slow ;-)
Quote from: panzerde on March 16, 2015, 06:58:21 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 06:55:04 PM
I go to my account, under downloads...then on lefthand side of the screen there is a product code....I used that product code as the serial number and it worked for me.
Yeah, I have those for the modules but nothing for the core game. That's where I'd expect to find it, but I got nothin'. At least one other person is seeing the same thing.
Thanks for the confirmation that it should be there. Thought I was overlooking something obvious.
Since free, maybe try buying again or try buying the core game under another account...just need the install anyway.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 07:00:05 PM
Since free, maybe try buying again or try buying the core game under another account...just need the install anyway.
Exactly what I did, and this time I have a serial number. Odd, but I suspect the site might be a little slammed.
Quote from: panzerde on March 16, 2015, 07:02:44 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 07:00:05 PM
Since free, maybe try buying again or try buying the core game under another account...just need the install anyway.
Exactly what I did, and this time I have a serial number. Odd, but I suspect the site might be a little slammed.
Excellent...probably just growing pains of a new store for digital games.
Quote from: panzerde on March 16, 2015, 06:48:22 PM
Getting prompted for a serial number for the core game, but I have none. Not in My Account/Downloads, wasn't emailed to me, nowhere. I do have serials for the Commander's Pack, but those don't seem to work. Am I missing something?
Yes.
Log into the LNL site - that is, from the main page - and then proceed to My Account. Under the "My Orders" column you'll find the option "Downloads". There you'll find the serial numbers, on the left hand side, after "Product Code:", along with links to download your stuff.
Anyone else getting text problems where layers of text / ui stuff is mixing together, making it unreadable? I noticed it on the OOB screen first, and now see it when trying to edit a bombard mission after editing an attack order....
Quote from: smittyohio on March 16, 2015, 08:48:04 PM
Anyone else getting text problems where layers of text / ui stuff is mixing together, making it unreadable? I noticed it on the OOB screen first, and now see it when trying to edit a bombard mission after editing an attack order....
I haven't noticed it but have seen a post on the official forums talking about text issues like this.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 16, 2015, 08:55:24 PM
Quote from: smittyohio on March 16, 2015, 08:48:04 PM
Anyone else getting text problems where layers of text / ui stuff is mixing together, making it unreadable? I noticed it on the OOB screen first, and now see it when trying to edit a bombard mission after editing an attack order....
I haven't noticed it but have seen a post on the official forums talking about text issues like this.
Try this is you don't mind... create an attack order. Then right click on the order and view it. Then create a bombard order. Do the same. Is your text not garbled? If not, I guess it's probably Windows version or something related.
Also... do I freakin' really have to register TWO ACCOUNTS on the LNL site, one for purchases and another for the forums????
Quote from: smittyohio on March 16, 2015, 08:48:04 PM
Anyone else getting text problems where layers of text / ui stuff is mixing together, making it unreadable? I noticed it on the OOB screen first, and now see it when trying to edit a bombard mission after editing an attack order....
Yes, seeing exactly this. I think I saw a similar post about this on the LnL forums. Making it a bit difficult to plan attacks.
I'm also seeing text overlapping on buttons.
Re: Limits on downloads - our own James Sterrett asked this question on the LnL forums. Dave Heath replied that the downloads are limited to 10 only from the perspective of trying to stop DDOS attacks. If anyone ever hits their limit, just submit a ticket and it'll be reset.
Also, it looks like download managers can mess with the count, and there seems to be some issue where Chrome does the same.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 16, 2015, 09:28:10 PM
I'm also seeing text overlapping on buttons.
panzerde and Jarhead
are your Window's general 'text-size / dpi-setting' also 125% or different from 100 % ...that may be the problem
I see that effect in the Force info window overlays
I own and enjoy the originals. Apart from all the posts about cost, text size, frame rates, download limits, etc.....what about the actual gameplay and user interface. Is this new game all that different from the original, enough so as to make it worth the price? Or is it just a big patch fixing some issues with the first? What is different about this iteration as compared to the first?
Quote from: MikeGER on March 17, 2015, 04:15:52 AM
panzerde and Jarhead
are your Window's general 'text-size / dpi-setting' also 125% or different from 100 % ...that may be the problem
I see that effect in the Force info window overlays
No, I'm at bog standard 100% text size. The dialog was fine until I opened it for a bombardment mission, and then it went wonky.
Quote from: Rayfer on March 17, 2015, 07:05:32 AM
I own and enjoy the originals. Apart from all the posts about cost, text size, frame rates, download limits, etc.....what about the actual gameplay and user interface. Is this new game all that different from the original, enough so as to make it worth the price? Or is it just a big patch fixing some issues with the first? What is different about this iteration as compared to the first?
I haven't played it enough for a complete answer to this. What I have seen is that there's a new UI, which has some advantages once you get used to it. Some of the graphics are improved but thus far I've only looked at maps I'm already familiar with. Nothing radically different there yet, but I'm eager to see what the desert maps look like.
The AI does seem improved. As a test last night I ordered an entire Combat Command of the 4th Armored into an attack in the St. Vith scenario and it handled it very well, complete with reasonable artillery support. In the past I'd have had to command the subordinate formations if I wanted a reasonable result.
I'm also given to understand that the new engine will handle much, much larger maps. Again, no experience with that yet.
Wow... glad I kind of forgot to go over and buy it yesterday. :o
I feel a little bad sacrificing my friends to the game until the early bugs are ironed out. But not too bad. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fold.wargamer.com%2Fforums%2Fsmiley%2F00000613.gif&hash=8692de0bc694c1fd280a438a2cf38c281f8bbd63)
I love the series and bought it (again)....but it does remind me what I didn't get...the AI command. What exactly is the point of playing a game that has such good command AI, you just sit there and watch it.
I did rebuy this game yesterday - as I sold mine for charity - but I never, ever did get the "game" aspect of leaving it to the AI. I always found myself taking hold of particular companies, platoons and arty just to do something.
I guess I just didn't get the "supreme commander" role I was meant to play.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 17, 2015, 08:06:09 AM
I love the series and bought it (again)....but it does remind me what I didn't get...the AI command. What exactly is the point of playing a game that has such good command AI, you just sit there and watch it.
I did rebuy this game yesterday - as I sold mine for charity - but I never, ever did get the "game" aspect of leaving it to the AI. I always found myself taking hold of particular companies, platoons and arty just to do something.
I guess I just didn't get the "supreme commander" role I was meant to play.
This is what I actually like about the game, don't like to micromanage myself...prefer to draw up the high-level plan and let the commanders do their job...I find it interesting watching the battles play out and if I want, I always have the option to jump in.
In order to get the Core Engine I still have to create an account?
Quote from: PAK on March 17, 2015, 09:16:45 AM
In order to get the Core Engine I still have to create an account?
Yes. For the storefront. If you want to participate in the forums you'll need to create another account.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 17, 2015, 08:12:30 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 17, 2015, 08:06:09 AM
I love the series and bought it (again)....but it does remind me what I didn't get...the AI command. What exactly is the point of playing a game that has such good command AI, you just sit there and watch it.
I did rebuy this game yesterday - as I sold mine for charity - but I never, ever did get the "game" aspect of leaving it to the AI. I always found myself taking hold of particular companies, platoons and arty just to do something.
I guess I just didn't get the "supreme commander" role I was meant to play.
This is what I actually like about the game, don't like to micromanage myself...prefer to draw up the high-level plan and let the commanders do their job...I find it interesting watching the battles play out and if I want, I always have the option to jump in.
Reminds me of Distant Worlds in that regard. At one extreme you can let it run itself, at the other you can micro-manage everything....or you can play anywhere you want between these two extremes.
I had the text issue until I increased my screen resolution to match desktop. Prior to that, it was all messed up. But now the text is so small I can barely read it.
The text does overlap on at least one button (the scenario set button).
Also - why are their only briefing "maps" for the 3 scenarios with the core game...are the rest coming?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 17, 2015, 08:06:09 AM
I love the series and bought it (again)....but it does remind me what I didn't get...the AI command. What exactly is the point of playing a game that has such good command AI, you just sit there and watch it.
I did rebuy this game yesterday - as I sold mine for charity - but I never, ever did get the "game" aspect of leaving it to the AI. I always found myself taking hold of particular companies, platoons and arty just to do something.
I guess I just didn't get the "supreme commander" role I was meant to play.
I like that its designed to put you in a role which scales to the game. You get to worry about the bigger picture and leave the implementation to smaller formations.
I don't think its like watching the AI play unless you give them command of all your units at once :) On the smaller maps, controlling Battalions just lets the AI manage 3 or 4 units to accomplish your orders. Your role is to create battlegroups, formulate a strategy and react to changes in situation, IMHO it feels more like command, and you're skipping the mechanics of moving chits around the map.
Give it a shot, try to manage nothing smaller than a battalion, and create a couple of multi-battalion groups, you can then spend your time fretting that you don't have enough resources to accomplish your mission and cursing at your subordinates when they fail their missions :)
This edition is hellishly sluggish I have to say. ::)
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 17, 2015, 12:44:04 PM
...
Also - why are their only briefing "maps" for the 3 scenarios with the core game...are the rest coming?
I'll quote my own post here:
Quote from: Pinetree on March 16, 2015, 03:04:52 AM
For those of you that bought the whole shebang, the Situation maps are coming, I've completed the maps for Bastogne and I'm a quarter of the way through Ride of the Valkyries. I'm releasing them to Dave when I've done both as they are interlinked and I want to make sure there are no errors. Dave will then release them in a future patch.
The maps that are done look really great, Pinetree!
Quote from: Pinetree on March 17, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 17, 2015, 12:44:04 PM
...
Also - why are their only briefing "maps" for the 3 scenarios with the core game...are the rest coming?
I'll quote my own post here:
Quote from: Pinetree on March 16, 2015, 03:04:52 AM
For those of you that bought the whole shebang, the Situation maps are coming, I've completed the maps for Bastogne and I'm a quarter of the way through Ride of the Valkyries. I'm releasing them to Dave when I've done both as they are interlinked and I want to make sure there are no errors. Dave will then release them in a future patch.
Oh - thank you. The ones I saw looked great O0 so I was a bit disappointed they weren't there.
I'm very glad they are coming. O0
Thanks, and no worries. :) The maps usually only take a me a night or so each to do so the wait for the bulge maps shouldn't be too long. I'll most likely do the HTTR maps after that then move on to Greece and the Med.
For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta. That wasn't communicated clearly on the LnL website, but it is now, I guess. Depending on your feelings about participating in a public beta, you might want to wait. On the up side, you can get the game and some scenarios for free, so you aren't out any cash if you do go in to the beta. Panther appear to be listening to feedback and working to correct issues, which is good.
I had no idea it was a public beta and I'm not sure it's a really great idea to have a deal for content pricing that may be expired before the product comes out of beta. I don't regret buying the Commander's Pack at all (hell, I regret buy Elite:Dangerous and To End All Wars a lot more than I would ever regret this!). I do hope that LnL and Panther get better at communicating with each other about stuff like this, though.
Relevant thread from LnL forums: http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/show-stoppers.1283/
Quote from: panzerde on March 17, 2015, 06:50:42 PM
For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta.
WTF??
Here's the thread on upcoming release from David Heath. You won't find the words "public beta" mentioned anywhere in this discussion:
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/when-to-expect-command-ops-2.1197/ (http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/when-to-expect-command-ops-2.1197/)
"I wanted to update you on the release of Command Ops 2. I know Dave been taking a lot of hits with this question so its only fair that I update you.
Monday March 16, 2015 Command Ops 2 will be available for downloading and purchase."
Umm, LnL needs to be way more up front with its customers if this was intended as a 'public beta'. I haven't yet bought the game and frankly, am definitely considering crossing this off my 'probable purchases' list after this...
dave did mention in a number of threads it would be a beta release...I even posted a blurb a number of posts ago something he posted.
With that said, I do think official communication hasnt been great on pricing, downloads, whether core engine free forever, and could have been more clear on the beta store at the start.
Rough start with the new company, expect with time it will get better
Asked Dave:
QuoteWilliam Baugh said:
Dave,
Coming from other forums, you have a number of people who have bought the complete package not knowing this is a public beta. There are also rumors running rampant on pricing.
I really think it would be good to have you or David officially state clearly how pricing will work moving out of public beta to the 2.0 release and beyond. Are we looking at paying $50 for a public beta to then have to pay another amount for the release version?
Quote
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
I appreciate the need for clarity on this and I have drafted a pricing policy statement and emailed this to LNL for their comment. I will post this on the main page of the forum once I have this back, hopefully tomorrow.
That sounds a whole lot like the pricing model David Heath said they were not doing. As I suspected, it's probably all in the wording. It sounds like Battlefront's scheme on steroids. Maintaining, or possibly letting wither on the vine, multiple versions of an engine and data packs.
Quote from: panzerde on March 17, 2015, 06:50:42 PM
For those who are waiting a bit due to the reported issues, most notably the lag: apparently Panther's intent with this release is that is is a public beta. That wasn't communicated clearly on the LnL website, but it is now, I guess. Depending on your feelings about participating in a public beta, you might want to wait. On the up side, you can get the game and some scenarios for free, so you aren't out any cash if you do go in to the beta. Panther appear to be listening to feedback and working to correct issues, which is good.
I had no idea it was a public beta and I'm not sure it's a really great idea to have a deal for content pricing that may be expired before the product comes out of beta. I don't regret buying the Commander's Pack at all (hell, I regret buy Elite:Dangerous and To End All Wars a lot more than I would ever regret this!). I do hope that LnL and Panther get better at communicating with each other about stuff like this, though.
Relevant thread from LnL forums: http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/show-stoppers.1283/
Does the clock on the bundle price start ticking once it is released, or now with the beta?
Bought the bundle . No brainer for me despite not playing this series a lot.
The bundle pricing is going on right now, and is supposed to be for 90 days.
I think it's important to note that I really see absolutely no malice or any attempt to be dishonest in this by LnL or Panther. I think there's been some miscommunication due to LnL under Heath being a new company in general and very new to doing computer games (though David Heath obviously has done this before) and Panther trying to get a new game out through a new publisher. LnL doesn't have the staff that Matrix/Slitherine does and Panther is a small operation too. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't do everything in their power to get it right. I'm willing to cut them a break though, since they seem to be doing all they can - both of these guys are living on the LnL forums right now and are very responsive.
It's a good game and these guys have shown good faith in their past dealings. I'm sure they're going to fix the bugs, and I'd be surprised if LnL didn't do the right thing on the bundle pricing if necessary. My only intent in the post above was to inform people about something that was news to me, as someone that hadn't spent much time on the LnL forums before the game was released.
here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.
Hopefully, I'm misreading the pricing policy, but it seems as if the 5 pack bundle I purchased last night could, in a worst case scenario, cost me up to $150.00 per year to keep updated.
- 1 or 2 fee level updates of the core a year.
- Fee will be up to 50% of original price for each scenario pack. (It's possible they mean one fee will update all of your packs, no matter how many you own)
- The separate original price of the scenario-data packs is $30.00 to $35.00 a piece.
I'm sure it would never come to this amount, but even at a lesser amount it could become a real money pit, unless you choose not to update. In addition, each scenario pack purchased in the future increases the burden.
I'm hoping I've got policy wrong and someone will set this straight.
Wait a minute. Did I just read "paid upgrades for the scenario packs if necessary" and "public beta"? Should have read this thread more carefully.
Quote from: -budd- on March 17, 2015, 10:13:28 PM
here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.
I think if you never previously bought anything related to command ops before now, it absolutely is tremendous value. If you are a previous owner and have already bought the content multiple times it is questionable value that only the purchaser can decide if worth it, especially since not a ton of differences in 2.0 (some might say new ui not as good as first).
At the end of the day it will be each person's choice whether they want keep purchasing further updates and whichever they choose is perfectly acceptable. For me it will come down to what kind of changes are in core updates, hopefully will add decent amount of changes. As for frequency based on history, can't imagine them getting out core updates more than one a year, if that.
Anyway, each persons choice and will be interesting to see how things turn out.....
Well, I definitely got a great deal here regardless of what the pricing structure is going forward. There's an awful lot of game for £40 here
But in case I want "more" later, I'll just post this in case anyone "official" comes in and answers anything...
So an upgrade to the engine comes out. If I wanted those new features, I'd have to upgrade the engine (free from what I gather) and then update each of the (modules at a reduced cost?)
However, a more likely scenario for me is this.
A new engine comes out and I'm not bothered about the updates. However, it's been released with a Vietnam module or a 6 Years War module or Yom Kippur module or a Falklands module...all of which I would love. So in this scenario I buy the new engine (for free?) and buy the Yom Kippur module. Do I have to upgrade my other scenario packs? I would presume so because the core engine is changed. If I do have to but don't bother, is that them useless or can I continue using my old modules on the new engine?
If the latter is the case, this essentially means once your in, you are drowning. You would either lose the ability to use your older modules or you simply don't buy any new modules and core engine upgrade.
If it's the former - then cool. I can upgrade the engine, buy the new modules I want with all the new functionality AND keep playing my older modules. I can see how this would work. It's not a lot different to working with the DLL system. You can add functionality to a DLL so that a new program can access key components whilst also taking advantage of new functionality within the DLL file.
That's how I hope it would work anyway
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 18, 2015, 01:42:00 AM
Quote from: -budd- on March 17, 2015, 10:13:28 PM
here's a link to the pricing policy for CO posted by Dave. It's pretty much what he has said for awhile.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
I have no worries that what ever problems there are now will be worked out. Even if you never buy another CO2 product the current bundle pricing for what you get is a great value. Judging by the how Panther has supported their products in the past and how Mr. Heath was very customer oriented when he ran Matrix games the commander pack is a no brainer.
I think if you never previously bought anything related to command ops before now, it absolutely is tremendous value. If you are a previous owner and have already bought the content multiple times it is questionable value that only the purchaser can decide if worth it, especially since not a ton of differences in 2.0 (some might say new ui not as good as first).
At the end of the day it will be each person's choice whether they want keep purchasing further updates and whichever they choose is perfectly acceptable. For me it will come down to what kind of changes are in core updates, hopefully will add decent amount of changes. s for frequency based on history, can't imagine them getting out core updates more than one a year, if that.
Anyway, each persons choice and will be interesting to see how things turn out.....
My bold - this. I cannot imagine more than one update a year. However, it does depend how your older modules work if you do upgrade the engine for a new module. If they don't work, you are "in for a penny, in for a pound" if the new module (and therefore core engine) is what you really really want.
I guess the question will be can multiple core versions of the game run on the same computer? If so, the worse case will be having multiple versions installed to play various modules you have installed. Not very elegant but doable I guess.
From what understood and could be wrong, for your modules to be playable on.new core updates, you would need to upgrade them. But if multiple versions can run on your computer, then you could just start the older versions your modules are attached.
Just saw a post in the forums where Dave said multiple versions would reside on your computer...each version able to play the modules you upgraded for it. So again maybe not elegant, but does allow you to choose what you upgrade which that doesn't sound bad at all to me and still gives me the ability to upgrade older content if I want.
And Dave just confirmed you can skip upgrades for a version...for example if version 3 comes out and you don't want to upgrade, you can skip it. Then when version 4 comes out you can upgrade at that point to that version, without having to,upgrade to version 3 first.
With this clarification, I don't have any issues with this method, you really can pick and choose what you want to do and when you do it. I think the remaining only question is to whether the core engine will always be free like first thought or if at some point that will cost money too.....although, not sure I would mind that much since my choice whether to upgrade.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 18, 2015, 02:24:19 AM
Just saw a post in the forums where Dave said multiple versions would reside on your computer...each version able to play the modules you upgraded for it. So again maybe not elegant, but does allow you to choose what you upgrade which that doesn't sound bad at all to me and still gives me the ability to upgrade older content if I want.
Almost sounds like how Command is doing their DB upgrades. Old ones are still there so that you can still play old scenarios. But command also has a tool to convert old scenarios for the new db.
Dave, also clarified that core will always be free...so sounds good to me.
And I scratched my head with how Battlefront handled/handles their Combat Mission patches, engine upgrades and add-on's. Can't put my finger on it but this CO2 release just doesn't feel right. I'm going to wait until this is all sorted out and we know for sure what the pricing model really is.
Dave does explain the final pricing model in above link so I don't expect much to change. After really thinking about this, I think it is a decent model and similar to other games.
Let me use the example of far cry 3 and far cry 4. Far cry 3 was released and you had to buy core game and optionally any dlc specifically for it. When far cry 4 came out, you had to buy the core game (if you wanted the new stuff) and the dlc specifically for it. It was your choice if you wanted to get the latest version or stick with the old. The dlc is not sharable between the two. If you wanted to play both the old and new versions with their specific dlc content, you would leave them installed side by side on your computer.
The model for co2 is basically the same
- In both cases, content is specific to version
- in both cases, you can run versions side by side to play specific content
- in both cases, totally your choice if you want to upgrade or stay on current version
Two big advantages of co2 are:
- never have to pay for core product, only new content or upgraded content you want (granted content may be more expensive then other games, not sure yet)
- you have the option to upgrade your past content to make it playable in current version...most other games don't even give you this option...most other cases your old dlc becomes dead weight
Although this wasn't clear to me at the start, in the end I have zero issues with the model.
I'm still not sold on the model without knowing how well they will support older versions of the engine / data packs once they've moved on. But, I'm probably willing to bite on the bundled pack I think, even though i own some of CO1. I'm not really sold on the new UI changes, and I can't really play the game as it is right now because of the overlapping text issues. Once those are ironed out, I'll give the free engine another shot and make sure I enjoy the game. I setup some attacks last night in one of the free scenarios, and was a little miffed to see a tiny engineering company hold off 2 full groups (8 units, can't remember the scale) of mechanized infantry and armor. They eventually withdrew, but it reminded me of some of my frustrations with CO1.
Quote from: smittyohio on March 18, 2015, 08:23:23 AM
I'm still not sold on the model without knowing how well they will support older versions of the engine / data packs once they've moved on. But, I'm probably willing to bite on the bundled pack I think, even though i own some of CO1. I'm not really sold on the new UI changes, and I can't really play the game as it is right now because of the overlapping text issues. Once those are ironed out, I'll give the free engine another shot and make sure I enjoy the game. I setup some attacks last night in one of the free scenarios, and was a little miffed to see a tiny engineering company hold off 2 full groups (8 units, can't remember the scale) of mechanized infantry and armor. They eventually withdrew, but it reminded me of some of my frustrations with CO1.
I doubt they will support old versions of the game to any extreme extent and wouldn't expect them too....there aren't many, if any, other game companies that provide support on older versions once they have moved on.
If your not sold on this version, you don't have to upgrade now...wait until a version comes out you want and then jump in.....of course the commander pack deal might not be there at that point....all personal choices and that is what I like about the model
How many times have you played a later game in a series and wanted features ported back to an earlier version, no you have the choice. Core engine its stated will have added features, take mounted ops for Instance I imagine that feature alone would take a lot of time and effort to port back to earlier packs. I don't expect that for free. Multiple installs should work well and will keep user created content playable. Maybe I only want mounted ops in one or two of my modules , install a second copy , redownload and install the modules you want to upgrade and off you go. Thing is if your happy with how they play you don't have too and can jump in later on a newer module. I have zero problem with this, choice is good with me. Even with all this the commander pack is a steal and I think they might have spoiled us with this.
^ Battlefront's games. I always upgrade the older modules when available ;D
I want good game companies to make money and continue investing in their products. I am more than happy to keep plowing reasonable money into companies that support my hobby. It would cost me a lot more to make a game I like by myself.
I bought Kursk '43 from JTS the other day as part of the Rich Hamilton fire sale and went to the HPS site to download the patch. That lead me to thinking about the Jena patch that Dr. Tiller just released for BOTH the HPS and the JTS versions bringing the larger 2D graphics to the table. All free and years after these games made either company any real money. I appreciate them and their work.
I've defended BFC's model in large part although the 3.0 jump in the WW2 games gave me a minor case of the squick.
This is a whole new level and is creating some real cogdiss because I love this system and its games. I'm probably in because the risk-reward is relatively in good proportion, but, I think I've put my finger on what bothers me: we don't know what we'll be losing if we don't pay down the road and what we'll get to keep. BFC hit us at the moment of the patch with the reality that we couldn't have all the cool new 3.0 stuff without the upgrade. LnL is entirely prospective. It's a bit more transparent, but I'm OCD about this stuff. I'm not going to want all y'all to have all the cool things and I won't...even if we never play an on-line game against each other once in our lives. I want a world in which games are feature-complete, tested, and done when I open the box, take out the 3.5'' disks, crack open the 300 page spiral-bound manual, and imagine how very grand the game before me will be on my brand new 13'' VGA monitor.
I would also like a pony.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Firesale....what firesale.....this still going on?
Rich Hamilton has been selling a fair number of different HPS versions of the JTS games (I know, it's confusing) on E-Bay for $20 each + postage. If you reach out to him directly -- his e-mail is in the E-Bay listings -- he can make you an even better deal on bulk purchases.
I don't know what he has left, but you can find all the information by searching for "HPS Simulations" on E-Bay.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
I went to both HPS and JT's sites and see no prices marked down and nothing in writing?
Quote from: Cyrano on March 18, 2015, 11:01:06 AM
I bought Kursk '43 from JTS the other day as part of the Rich Hamilton fire sale and went to the HPS site to download the patch. That lead me to thinking about the Jena patch that Dr. Tiller just released for BOTH the HPS and the JTS versions bringing the larger 2D graphics to the table. All free and years after these games made either company any real money. I appreciate them and their work.
I've defended BFC's model in large part although the 3.0 jump in the WW2 games gave me a minor case of the squick.
This is a whole new level and is creating some real cogdiss because I love this system and its games. I'm probably in because the risk-reward is relatively in good proportion, but, I think I've put my finger on what bothers me: we don't know what we'll be losing if we don't pay down the road and what we'll get to keep. BFC hit us at the moment of the patch with the reality that we couldn't have all the cool new 3.0 stuff without the upgrade. LnL is entirely prospective. It's a bit more transparent, but I'm OCD about this stuff. I'm not going to want all y'all to have all the cool things and I won't...even if we never play an on-line game against each other once in our lives. I want a world in which games are feature-complete, tested, and done when I open the box, take out the 3.5'' disks, crack open the 300 page spiral-bound manual, and imagine how very grand the game before me will be on my brand new 13'' VGA monitor.
I would also like a pony.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
A year ago on the Matrix Store, for digital downloads, the base game which included Ardennes was selling for $59.99, Market Garden was a $29.99 expansion, and Greece was another $29.99 expansion.
Today, for $50 you get those plus North Africa/Med Islands with an upgraded engine. I have serious doubts that Panther Games will be able to produce even 1 engine upgrade per year based on their previous release pacing, but if they do so what, for another $50 you will get a new engine and set of scenarios, purchase 1 or 2 specific modules, or skip the version entirely.
If you want to wait until the new engine has bugs ironed out and a number of patches, then the combined price of all modules will be higher (currently buying separately is $160.)
I don't understand why Battlefront or Panther could get called into question, but games such as Far Cry 4, Assasins Creed x.x etc are simply considered normal annual-ish releases.
Does anyone here expect their copy of EU2 to be brought up to EU4 functionality for free?
Quote from: dinsdale on March 18, 2015, 12:55:00 PM
Does anyone here expect their copy of EU2 to be brought up to EU4 functionality for free?
Is this really a valid comparison? Each iteration in Pdox's EU franchise represents a whole lot more than an engine upgrade. No one expects to get EU4 for free just 'cause they own EU3, because EU4 is a completely new game.
EU2 --> EU4 is a far more significant upgrade than BFC made to anything ever and I'm a huge BFC fan.
I can't speak to, well, any FPS since Quake, although I rather liked Halo and Bad Company: Vietnam.
Again, it's not knowing what one will get for the upgrade that's under my skin. This, of course, leaves me unable to respond to the reasonable question: "well, what if they hadn't told you about it?" As I think I confessed earlier, it's just that this brave new world of patches and versions may be one I wasn't quite ready for. Entirely a horse on me. I've no doubt I'll be in before the sale expires and I wish LnL and Panther the best...
Jim
Quote from: Cyrano on March 18, 2015, 01:10:07 PM
EU2 --> EU4 is a far more significant upgrade than BFC made to anything ever and I'm a huge BFC fan.
I can't speak to, well, any FPS since Quake, although I rather liked Halo and Bad Company: Vietnam.
Again, it's not knowing what one will get for the upgrade that's under my skin. This, of course, leaves me unable to respond to the reasonable question: "well, what if they hadn't told you about it?" As I think I confessed earlier, it's just that this brave new world of patches and versions may be one I wasn't quite ready for. Entirely a horse on me. I've no doubt I'll be in before the sale expires and I wish LnL and Panther the best...
Jim
Not sure what you mean about knowing what you'll get for your upgrade? Can you explain this better because I am not understanding this point but maybe I am missing something. You know now what you'll get with version 2.0, can even try in the free core release. If your meaning in the next upgrade beyond 2.0 in the future, not sure how anyone can know that at this point with only the first release happening. Not sure any game would tell you this far in advance on what all the future upgrades will include.
I understand it is a new model for Command Ops and at first I was confused and concerned just like everyone else. But now that everything seems to be more clear, personally I have no issue with it and can't see how this product is any worse then any other product....can't think of any other product that produces new versions of their product and continues to provide free upgrades to past outdated versions of their product and at no cost.
Quote from: magnus on March 18, 2015, 11:35:45 AM
I went to both HPS and JT's sites and see no prices marked down and nothing in writing?
Rich is selling these independently on eBay and as far as I know this "sale" has nothing to do with either JTS or HPS. You can not buy these reduced price games from the JTS or HPS websites.
You also can't buy HPS Wagram anymore because I bought the last copy last night. ;D
Quote from: Rayfer on March 18, 2015, 06:56:56 AM
Can't put my finger on it but this CO2 release just doesn't feel right. I'm going to wait until this is all sorted out and we know for sure what the pricing model really is.
This is pretty much how I'm feeling at the moment.
My worry then is that when it is sorted out i.e. comes out of what now is apparently an Early Release / Public Beta phase (announced after a lot of people had purchased the New Release - very bad customer communication) the price will jump up to $160 / £110 at which point I'll just stick with BFTB and all the scenario packs I have for it.
All in all I thought this was going to be a day one purchase, now I'll probably just hold off to see where it is in a year and then just buy new scenario packs if they look of interest not the re-released versions of what I already have.
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 18, 2015, 01:09:21 PM
Quote from: dinsdale on March 18, 2015, 12:55:00 PM
Does anyone here expect their copy of EU2 to be brought up to EU4 functionality for free?
Is this really a valid comparison? Each iteration in Pdox's EU franchise represents a whole lot more than an engine upgrade. No one expects to get EU4 for free just 'cause they own EU3, because EU4 is a completely new game.
^^^^ what he said.. I downloaded the free core product last night, it looks to me like the same game. I already paid for Bulge and Highway to the Reich.. I really don't feel like spending 50 bucks to buy them again! There is a BIG difference between EU3 and EU4 (never mind 2 - 4)!
Quote from: Tuna on March 18, 2015, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: sandman2575 on March 18, 2015, 01:09:21 PM
Quote from: dinsdale on March 18, 2015, 12:55:00 PM
Does anyone here expect their copy of EU2 to be brought up to EU4 functionality for free?
Is this really a valid comparison? Each iteration in Pdox's EU franchise represents a whole lot more than an engine upgrade. No one expects to get EU4 for free just 'cause they own EU3, because EU4 is a completely new game.
^^^^ what he said.. I downloaded the free core product last night, it looks to me like the same game. I already paid for Bulge and Highway to the Reich.. I really don't feel like spending 50 bucks to buy them again! There is a BIG difference between EU3 and EU4 (never mind 2 - 4)!
Which is ok....the model they have allows you to determine when you want to jump in with a new version, if ever. You can keep command ops 1 running with all the current modules, no problem, you just won't get the new additions and if not important to you, than that is ok. If somewhere down the road you like what's in a new core upgrade, then you either have the option to update your existing scenarios to play with it or just purchase whatever new content is released with the new version. Either or is fine and a personal choice.
I am probably just getting old, but just not understanding many of these types of points and why this is different than any other game that a new version comes out.....you don't expect EU 3 DLC to work with EU 4 do you? If you want to keep playing EU 3 content and don't want to upgrade to EU 4 features, you would keep EU 3 installed and play that, but nobody seems to be expecting EU or any other games to keep all their DLC playable across all versions. But some reason it is coming across as different with command ops...
Quote from: 'sandman2575'Is this really a valid comparison? Each iteration in Pdox's EU franchise represents a whole lot more than an engine upgrade. No one expects to get EU4 for free just 'cause they own EU3, because EU4 is a completely new game.
Quote from: Cyrano on March 18, 2015, 01:10:07 PM
EU2 --> EU4 is a far more significant upgrade than BFC made to anything ever and I'm a huge BFC fan.
I think its a fairly subjective measurement, and something that we all consider when buying a new game. I love the EU series, but the changes have been somewhat incremental if you consider EU2->EU3->Expansions->EU4->DLC.
CM2 was radically different from CM1, CM3 less so, but it was a $10 upgrade IIRC. I found CO1 to be significantly different from the old HHTR/COTA release, CO2 less so. I think the problem is, the Command Ops announced plans seem to be misunderstood/ambiguous when we should simply look at what they put out to determine if it really is a different enough game to want to play.
Quote from: Cyrano on March 18, 2015, 01:10:07 PMAgain, it's not knowing what one will get for the upgrade that's under my skin. This, of course, leaves me unable to respond to the reasonable question: "well, what if they hadn't told you about it?" As I think I confessed earlier, it's just that this brave new world of patches and versions may be one I wasn't quite ready for. Entirely a horse on me. I've no doubt I'll be in before the sale expires and I wish LnL and Panther the best...
Jim
Then I think Lock and Load and Panther need to do a much better job communicating, or you haven't been able to find the information. They have a forum thread with differences introduced in CO2, they would have to do the same with a new engine. Essentially, a new engine is a new game with a new set of features, they need to advertise those differences effectively or no one is going to buy.
Clearly, the communication from L&L/Panther is clearly not being made effectively, maybe its the terminology they are using. Consider each engine 'upgrade' a new game version a la EU2, 3 & 4. Either buy or don't buy based on how much they've crammed into :)
Reaper, you're following me better than you think.
Games used to be released complete, absent patches. Now they're not and, over their lifetimes, various games are evolved, improved, &c. Just a paradigm shift to which I'm only slowly acclimating...
I absolutely agree, however, that LnL/Panther should have done a far better job of communicating on all this. The desire to release details like pricing structures, development plans, &C., is strong in this business -- especially given all of us banging on the door outside -- but Battlefront and others have learned it's best to let the howlers howl and then surprise the rest of us when everything's ready.
Best,
Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)
Hi all,
I'm sorry for not chiming in earlier but I've been a tad busy with the release.
I accept the criticism that we should have done a better job communicating how everything works. We now have a pricing policy statement up on LNL that hopefully explains how things work with CO2. You can find that here:
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
If you have any questions please ask away.
I would like to say this though. This is a new business model. The old way of releasing a big self contained game, replete with data content, wasn't working for us for a number of reasons. One of those was that we, being very small, could not get out enough product in a time frame to stay in business. We just lack the resources of big business. User expectations are so high now days. You demand a well written manual, tutorial movies, a lot of scenarios etc plus a swag of new features in the game engine. All of that takes a lot of time, which delays output of new product. We were on a treadmill of more and more work, greater and greater lead times between releases and no one wanted to pay more for that. It was not sustainable.
So we have come with this new model which hopefully will allow us to improve the engine in smaller increments, more frequently and put out more data content. We won't have to spend two months just working on the manual for each release like we used to. Nor spend another two months on tutorial movies.
There will always be resistance to change. I accept that. Some people have very doctrinaire views about what is "proper" and what they are prepared to support. Fair enough. But for those of you with a mind to support the future of wargaming you need to consider how this industry will survive. Almost all of the developers are micro businesses. Few of them have more than five employees. The size of this market space is very small and can be measured in sales of a few thousand per title. You don't need to be a genius to work out that given the small sales quantity there is not much in the pie for developers. That they provide such a high standard of product on what is effectively the smell of an oily rag is to their credit. Most are dedicating thousands of hours for virtually no return.
Yes I hear you say its the poor developer line. But it is true nonetheless. I have been in this business now since 1985.Those were heady days and where a wargame could command a good number of sales and make a good profit. But that is not the case today given the huge competition in the mainstream game market. They have pushed up user expectations beyond what can be sustained by the sales volume in the wargame market. Something has to change.
We have tried charging more for our product but that met a fierce resistance from users. So if we can't survive on the existing sales take and we can't increase the sales price and the market size in terms of volumes per title sold is not increasing then the only alternative is to get out product more quickly. That is what we are endeavouring to do with this new business model.
If it is not successful we will close our doors. You won't be responsible for that. The responsibility for that rests on my shoulders. But what I would like to urge you is to be open minded about the new model. It is NOT a subscription service. It is NOT a pay for beta service. These are both false. We are giving away our engine for free. It's beta at the moment but its free and will be free going forward. What you pay for is data content and you are not locked into paying for any updates. That is completely and always your choice.
You will always be able to play the data content on the version of the core engine it was designed for. It never goes out of date in that regard. But if you want to take advantage of new features in a new version of the core engine then you will have the option to update your data at a discounted price. It's an option pure and simple.
Anyway I urge you to check out the Pricing Policy.
FYI we do plan to release new data content over the coming months. We have the Westwall and Knock on All Doors modules already developed and being tested. They will work with Command Ops 2 (CO2). We have a number of east front modules too. These will require new features in the engine and will be released after CO3 is out.
That's all from me for now. As I said, if you have any questions I'm more than willing to answer them. You can make these on the CO2 forum, which I monitor closely: http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/forums/command-ops-series.28/ or here on this forum. I will try and check back in here soon.
Thanks for chiming in, Dave!
So it would be possible to have CO2 installed with CO2 data modules and a separate Install of CO3 with CO3 modules? For instance, CO2 is released and I buy Foothills of the Gods. A few months later, CO3 is released with a series of eastern front modules for that version of the core engine. I can download CO3 for free, buy an eastern front module and still run foothills of the gods in the CO2 engine without having to pay To upgrade that module?
I think that's the intention .
This looks much better then the previous communications :
The Core Engine is free, including all future minor builds and core updatesConsidering CO1 was already really good I just couldn't imagine the need for 2 core updates at $ 50 per year.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 19, 2015, 05:49:37 AM
So it would be possible to have CO2 installed with CO2 data modules and a separate Install of CO3 with CO3 modules? For instance, CO2 is released and I buy Foothills of the Gods. A few months later, CO3 is released with a series of eastern front modules for that version of the core engine. I can download CO3 for free, buy an eastern front module and still run foothills of the gods in the CO2 engine without having to pay To upgrade that module?
Posted on the LNL forum : http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
They will be separate installs. So you would have say a CO2 and a CO3 installed on your machine. The CO2 would contain all the modules you purchased and updated for it. The CO3 would only contain the ones you updated for it. They would each have their own shortcuts.
i just bought teh CO2 game and all its modules , though would CO3 come out this year - areyou working on this already? that would seem kind of odd and offputting if that is the case and is it silly that i bought CO2 now, or will people just wait for CO3?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 19, 2015, 05:49:37 AM
So it would be possible to have CO2 installed with CO2 data modules and a separate Install of CO3 with CO3 modules? For instance, CO2 is released and I buy Foothills of the Gods. A few months later, CO3 is released with a series of eastern front modules for that version of the core engine. I can download CO3 for free, buy an eastern front module and still run foothills of the gods in the CO2 engine without having to pay To upgrade that module?
Correct
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is
far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
I'm not such a
Command Ops addict to the point that I would regularly shell out this kind of cash for updates. Not even close. From the marketing scheme, it looks like PG are planning on running the company from income on this series in perpetuity. I don't see how that will happen with only the most die-hard fans of the series willing to cough up money for updates.
I still have the original HTTR on disc. It's a good "command sim" style game that I've enjoyed in occasional small stretches. The initial price of CO2 is fine, and similarly for major expansions into different theaters/regions and new scenarios. But having to pay for updates to modules is just too much to ask. Thus far, I've not even finished all the scenarios in HTTR after... a decade? No more fence-sitting for me.
To their credit, at least they are clarifying the situation to their customers, at the beginning of the release, instead of changing it to a worse situation months later after people had already purchased the initial offerings.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
Not sure I interpret the statement you bolded the same way....don't see it mentioning paying for bug fixes, I read it as saying that as new core updates are released with brand new functionality, that previous modules would need updated to take advantage of those new features. If you don't want the new features in your existing modules, than you can continue playing them on your older version. Now if a lot of bug fixes are deferred to actual core updates versus patches, then it certainly would be a little concerning.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
Not sure I interpret the statement you bolded the same way....don't see it mentioning paying for bug fixes, I read it as saying that as new core updates are released with brand new functionality, that previous modules would need updated to take advantage of those new features. If you don't want the new features in your existing modules, than you can continue playing them on your older version. Now if a lot of bug fixes are deferred to actual core updates versus patches, then it certainly would be a little concerning.
I understood it as bug fixes being discontinued for the previously purchased ones at that point.
So if they plan on releasing one or two paid core updates a year, there won't be a very long bug patching stretch for each one before you need to buy the next (and get the bug fixes which will only be done for that version forward).
I'm concerned about the possible bug situation the previous versions could be left in when this switchover happens. At this point, there is no way to predict that. I'm sure the developers don't want to leave bugs in previous version, but they're always there in any software as everyone well knows.
If I purchased the whole pack right now, I have no idea what condition it will be left in when a new version update comes along in the next 6 to 12 months. I believe Cyrano alluded to this earlier in this thread, too. I really dislike starting up a game without the latest patch & it's bug fixes. Having those rolled into paid upgrades once or twice a year is just a no-go with the amount of time I have, or ever will, put into the Command Ops series.
It just sounds like the bug fix patches will be limited to a short span of time without regularly paying for new game versions, even if you don't feel the need to buy the new ones. If I'm completely wrong, and patches for previous core versions will continue after such paid updates, then I'd like to know. I thought the wording was clear.
and you would have to pay for a patch for 'each' game correct?
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
Not sure I interpret the statement you bolded the same way....don't see it mentioning paying for bug fixes, I read it as saying that as new core updates are released with brand new functionality, that previous modules would need updated to take advantage of those new features. If you don't want the new features in your existing modules, than you can continue playing them on your older version. Now if a lot of bug fixes are deferred to actual core updates versus patches, then it certainly would be a little concerning.
I understood it as bug fixes being discontinued for the previously purchased ones at that point.
So if they plan on releasing one or two paid core updates a year, there won't be a very long bug patching stretch for each one before you need to buy the next (and get the bug fixes which will only be done for that version forward).
I'm concerned about the possible bug situation the previous versions could be left in when this switchover happens. At this point, there is no way to predict that. I'm sure the developers don't want to leave bugs in previous version, but they're always there in any software as everyone well knows.
If I purchased the whole pack right now, I have no idea what condition it will be left in when a new version update comes along in the next 6 to 12 months. I believe Cyrano alluded to this earlier in this thread, too. I really dislike starting up a game without the latest patch & it's bug fixes. Having those rolled into paid upgrades once or twice a year is just a no-go with the amount of time I have, or ever will, put into the Command Ops series.
It just sounds like the bug fix patches will be limited to a short span of time without regularly paying for new game versions, even if you don't feel the need to buy the new ones. If I'm completely wrong, and patches for previous core versions will continue after such paid updates, then I'd like to know. I thought the wording was clear.
Might be just terminology.....when I was speaking bug fixes, thinking most of those would be fixed in the core product, versus the modules. I don't believe they will go back and fix bugs in prior versions of the game, which I think is consistent how most companies deal with older versions of their game. Is there any game out there where there are patches made to old versions free of charge?
Quote from: Tuna on March 19, 2015, 09:13:37 AM
and you would have to pay for a patch for 'each' game correct?
Core game will always be free...if you want to update your game modules/content, there would be a cost associated with it, whether separate costs or maybe they will have bundles like they did with the initial commander pack, not sure. Not really a patch for the content, you only need to upgrade if you want the new functionality introduced with the latest core release.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 09:18:40 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
Not sure I interpret the statement you bolded the same way....don't see it mentioning paying for bug fixes, I read it as saying that as new core updates are released with brand new functionality, that previous modules would need updated to take advantage of those new features. If you don't want the new features in your existing modules, than you can continue playing them on your older version. Now if a lot of bug fixes are deferred to actual core updates versus patches, then it certainly would be a little concerning.
I understood it as bug fixes being discontinued for the previously purchased ones at that point.
So if they plan on releasing one or two paid core updates a year, there won't be a very long bug patching stretch for each one before you need to buy the next (and get the bug fixes which will only be done for that version forward).
I'm concerned about the possible bug situation the previous versions could be left in when this switchover happens. At this point, there is no way to predict that. I'm sure the developers don't want to leave bugs in previous version, but they're always there in any software as everyone well knows.
If I purchased the whole pack right now, I have no idea what condition it will be left in when a new version update comes along in the next 6 to 12 months. I believe Cyrano alluded to this earlier in this thread, too. I really dislike starting up a game without the latest patch & it's bug fixes. Having those rolled into paid upgrades once or twice a year is just a no-go with the amount of time I have, or ever will, put into the Command Ops series.
It just sounds like the bug fix patches will be limited to a short span of time without regularly paying for new game versions, even if you don't feel the need to buy the new ones. If I'm completely wrong, and patches for previous core versions will continue after such paid updates, then I'd like to know. I thought the wording was clear.
Might be just terminology.....when I was speaking bug fixes, thinking most of those would be fixed in the core product, versus the modules. I don't believe they will go back and fix bugs in prior versions of the game, which I think is consistent how most companies deal with older versions of their game. Is there any game out there where there are patches made to old versions free of charge?
Of course not. But moving on to a new version every 6 months, as proposed, wouldn't leave much time in between for bug fixes on each one. Especially if they're using much of that time to
create the new version and the bug fixes to the previous version that will be only included with the new one.
This actually seems very close to BFC's approach now with CM2. Pay for major function upgrade. Bug fixes are free, but at some point, they stop supporting the old version.
The only difference is BFC charges for the engine upgrade..but the scenarios are automatically converted. Also keep in mind that BFC sells what PC would consider upgrades as completely separate games. BFC has 5 core engines. Looks like the CO2 engine will handle all of WW2. You need 3 cores in BFC-land.
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 09:18:40 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on March 19, 2015, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on March 19, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
Quote from: Dave
Not at all. If you have paid for the Commander Pack 1 then it is yours. We will be releasing new minor builds for the Core Engine on a on going basis as we develop and refine the engine. These will all be free. Your Commander pack will work with these. If for any reason we need to do a conversion of the data then it will be done free of charge.
Having said that, if we put out a new core update with new features, as opposed to a new minor build with fixes, then you will have the option to pay for an update to your data. It's not compulsory. You can choose to stick with the existing core engine. That's the model we proposed months ago and it's still the model we are working on today.
Well.. that just crossed this off my purchase list.
It reminds me of the old bug fix scheme Paradox used to have long ago, where you had to buy expansion packs to get essential bug fixes. Except this is far more expensive.
I can just imagine some issue like the currently reported "sluggishness", overlapping text getting left in one version, or any number of possible bugs requiring you to throw more money at it.
Shamefur Dispray!
:(
Not sure I interpret the statement you bolded the same way....don't see it mentioning paying for bug fixes, I read it as saying that as new core updates are released with brand new functionality, that previous modules would need updated to take advantage of those new features. If you don't want the new features in your existing modules, than you can continue playing them on your older version. Now if a lot of bug fixes are deferred to actual core updates versus patches, then it certainly would be a little concerning.
I understood it as bug fixes being discontinued for the previously purchased ones at that point.
So if they plan on releasing one or two paid core updates a year, there won't be a very long bug patching stretch for each one before you need to buy the next (and get the bug fixes which will only be done for that version forward).
I'm concerned about the possible bug situation the previous versions could be left in when this switchover happens. At this point, there is no way to predict that. I'm sure the developers don't want to leave bugs in previous version, but they're always there in any software as everyone well knows.
If I purchased the whole pack right now, I have no idea what condition it will be left in when a new version update comes along in the next 6 to 12 months. I believe Cyrano alluded to this earlier in this thread, too. I really dislike starting up a game without the latest patch & it's bug fixes. Having those rolled into paid upgrades once or twice a year is just a no-go with the amount of time I have, or ever will, put into the Command Ops series.
It just sounds like the bug fix patches will be limited to a short span of time without regularly paying for new game versions, even if you don't feel the need to buy the new ones. If I'm completely wrong, and patches for previous core versions will continue after such paid updates, then I'd like to know. I thought the wording was clear.
Might be just terminology.....when I was speaking bug fixes, thinking most of those would be fixed in the core product, versus the modules. I don't believe they will go back and fix bugs in prior versions of the game, which I think is consistent how most companies deal with older versions of their game. Is there any game out there where there are patches made to old versions free of charge?
Of course not. But moving on to a new version every 6 months, as proposed, wouldn't leave much time in between for bug fixes on each one. Especially if they're using much of that time to create the new version and the bug fixes to the previous version that will be only included with the new one.
I guess I am just going on past history where there hasn't been a core update to the game very often...certainly if it turns out to be very frequent, then that could become a little overwhelming and would raise some concerns. If it turns out to be once a year like most other games that do annual new versions, then not a big deal to me. But even if more frequent, I can certainly make the choice of not buying that specific version and jump in on a later one, as long as bug fixes are not being held back.
From my understanding -after reading through thread(s) here and over at LnL - its all about the attribute vector describing a unit (a growing parameter list)
Let's say a unit had 20(?) different attributes in the old game
Now in CO2 5 mores attributes (like number of radios, some detail specific to artillery, etc...) are now also used by the engine to calculate the simulation in a more refined way
So for the old modules, someone over at Panther Games had to do some military history research and some deep thoughts to find and add those 5 new attribute values individually set for each unit(type) in all the existing OOBs
That is the value or the work done we have to pay for when getting an updated module
In the next installment it will be 5 more attributes to a unit (those needed to simulate mounted-ops for example, or some other specific for getting the behavior of units at the Ostfront modelled right)
In a later installment it maybe will be added 5 more attributes to a unit that may help describe 'amphibious or beach landing OPs', cause Panther Games will use them for a fictional 'Operation Overlord' set
the sad thing is: in the past the stand alone game would just be called "D-Day", had 32+ scenarios standalone and cost 49$
now i will be a separate Omaha-, Utah-, Gold-, Juno-, Sword-, module ??? ...with only 6 scenarios each of course ;)
(i am speaking/guessing of 2017 here... )
The bug point is a good point, I' d like to get some clarification on that. Judging by past history I'm not to worried about the game breaking bug variety being taken care of, would like to hear about what their philosophy on bugs going forward. That being said I will be buying the commander pack this weekend, I like the UI changes and have every confidence panther won't leave CO2 until its up to snuff, kinda has to be if they expect people to buy the incoming CO2 modules.
From searching on the Matrix site;
Highway to the Reich released December 2003, patched until May 2004
Conquest of the Aegean released June 2006, patched until April 2008
Command Ops Battles From The Bulge released May 2010, Highway to the Reich released January 2012, Battles For Greece released June 2013, engine patched until July 2014
Of course Panther may radically change their previous behavior and finally be making their move to tap the incredibly lucrative wargame market...
I think I'll play my Matrix version of Command Ops as I wait for CO3 or CO4. By then I'm sure a shedful of lingering, obscure bugs will have been found and fixed. And, hey, there might even be another deal on the module pack.
You know for the amount of activity this thread has created, you would think Command Ops is such a popular game that this whole pricing, content, sales issue would be irrelevant. Unfortunately that has not been the case since Airborne Assault and remains unchanged today it seems.
I have to admit I was more than a little gobsmacked after trying out the 'new core engine' at how minor the changes were from BftB. I had not been following their forums much but was under the impression the overriding intent was to change the presentation of the game to attempt to bring in new blood? (I seem to recall such a thread from Matrix but can't seem to find it now.) This is really more of the same from my initial take on it. In fact looking back at a wishlist thread from 5 years ago(!) - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2480256&mpage=1&key= (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2480256&mpage=1&key=) - it is disappointing at how few of these features have yet to be implemented and realistically likely never will.
While not my first passion, I do appreciate the brilliance of this game and have continued with my support even though I haven't played the latest expansions much at all. In fact, I actually prefer CotA over the Greek scenario pack for BftB and the same to a lesser extent with HttR.
While I have the upmost respect for what has been accomplished with this game, reading Arjuna's post I can't help but think there is an underlying management and delegation issue here. With the pace of previous releases/patches, I can't see 2 upgrades, at full game prices reportedly, every year unless the new 'features' are simply window dressing and modification of existing refinements. Hate to be negative, but it all seems like wishful thinking to me and have doubts of its success. Just curious, but I wonder if Bletchley_Geek is still involved?
Bummer...went over to the Matrix site and see Battles from the Bulge and the two expansions have been discontinued and unavailable for purchase. I have the base game and HttR and now wish I had gotten Battles for Greece.
First, Arjuna, outstanding post! I really mean that. Your passion and belief in your company really comes through and I am glad you could articulate it so well.
Second, this pricing sounds a lot like what is going on with Steel Beasts Pro Personal Edition. And Battlefront, too, I suppose. It IS the new paradigm in wargame development, and I suspect we'll be seeing more of this in the future. We can either adapt or shop elsewhere.
But if we shop elsewhere, understand that we're slitting our own throats here. We all want quality wargames to be developed, but we still demand 1990's pricing. It isn't going to happen. In fact, the more I think about it, more of the games I play than not have started moving to the paid upgrade path. DCS adopted this with the Blackshark to Blackshark 2, FC2 to FC3...I have 3 versions of ARMA now (with DLC)...WitP to WitP:AE...I'll bet if I keep thinking on it many more examples will surface.
My point is that this isn't new, but it is becoming more common. I guess bottom line all I can say is that before we get all indignant about some future thing we may or may not have to pay for, we better think hard on how much we want games like this to be developed.
Quote from: Rayfer on March 19, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
Bummer...went over to the Matrix site and see Battles from the Bulge and the two expansions have been discontinued and unavailable for purchase. I have the base game and HttR and now wish I had gotten Battles for Greece.
I think you would be better off getting the new 'Commander's Pack' then, a lot more for a few dollars more. IMO a no-brainer. More of a question is for those that already own everything from Panther...
ALL HAIL DAVE! (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fold.wargamer.com%2Fforums%2Fsmiley%2Ficon_respect.gif&hash=e7c8483f26cdf90628997feb38e2549a99d35e88) ALL HAIL DAVE!
I feel pretty reassured now. Basically the COps system will be an operating system. Operating system is always free, and each version is supported for a while. Except instead of backwards compatibility it's forward compatibility: new content won't be backwards compatible but old content will be forward compatible, at a paid update cost when the operating system goes for a full point update, with a loyalty discount for previous purchasing. Pay for what you want to play with in a modular fashion.
In other words, it's no different in principle from what we've already had, and what was already being done with the consolidation of the scenarios and campaigns into COps1. Red Devils? Still there just not supported anymore because HTTR came out. HTTR? Still there just not supported anymore. CotA? Still there just not supported anymore. COps1? Still there, if you want (most of) the material from the previous games, you can buy the updates for that new engine iteration, or play the old games you already bought. COps2? You can buy the updates for that new engine iteration, or play the old version(s) you already bought and only buy new material for this engine if you want it. COps3? All the old things are still there but won't be supported on bug hunts anymore; you can buy new versions of the old games in the new engine at a loyalty discount with proof of prior purchase.
It's up to the devs to sell us on why we should buy new modules (which may or may not require a new version of the engine, which itself will be free) or new versions of old modules. If the customer doesn't think it's worth paying for yet, don't buy. Perfectly fair.
I do think it's a tad disingenuous to say it isn't a paid beta, though. Is the core engine still in beta? Yes. Is there any way to play the paid packs without the core engine? No. The core engine may not be a paid beta (since it's free and comes with some testing scenarios for demo purposes), but the "commander's pack" special is a paid beta. A heavily discounted paid beta, basically on a loyalty discount without having to check for the loyalty, so I'm not complaining about that. But it is a paid beta. That's actually the deal; paid beta equals heavy discount for upgrading everything all at once (plus some things that hadn't yet made it into the previous update.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 19, 2015, 03:29:45 PM
I do think it's a tad disingenuous to say it isn't a paid beta, though. Is the core engine still in beta? Yes. Is there any way to play the paid packs without the core engine? No. The core engine may not be a paid beta (since it's free and comes with some testing scenarios for demo purposes), but the "commander's pack" special is a paid beta. A heavily discounted paid beta, basically on a loyalty discount without having to check for the loyalty, so I'm not complaining about that. But it is a paid beta. That's actually the deal; paid beta equals heavy discount for upgrading everything all at once (plus some things that hadn't yet made it into the previous update.)
However, I would add it is an OPTIONAL beta (of course the company should have had that on the store page before orders accepted)....you don't have to purchase the modules right now, you can wait until it becomes official. Certainly waiting comes with some risk if it does not become official until after the Commander Pack goes back to full price....but you could wait at least 89 days before having to make that decision and see where it is:)
Quote from: Zonso on March 19, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on March 19, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
Bummer...went over to the Matrix site and see Battles from the Bulge and the two expansions have been discontinued and unavailable for purchase. I have the base game and HttR and now wish I had gotten Battles for Greece.
I think you would be better off getting the new 'Commander's Pack' then, a lot more for a few dollars more. IMO a no-brainer. More of a question is for those that already own everything from Panther...
Checked out the site....Core engine free then $50.00 for the Commander's Pack of five modules. That is quite tempting.
Quote from: dinsdale on March 19, 2015, 12:28:33 PM
From searching on the Matrix site;
Highway to the Reich released December 2003, patched until May 2004
Conquest of the Aegean released June 2006, patched until April 2008
Command Ops Battles From The Bulge released May 2010, Highway to the Reich released January 2012, Battles For Greece released June 2013, engine patched until July 2014
Of course Panther may radically change their previous behavior and finally be making their move to tap the incredibly lucrative wargame market...
LOL ;D
Re Bug Fixing. I think we have pretty good track record of fixing bugs. It gets priority.
Re the paid beta argument. I beg to differ with the assertion that this is a paid beta program. The Core is free. There is no payment for it. If you download the Core you do not have to buy any modules. I was my original intention to just release the Core but we received numerous requests to release the Modules now. In hindsight that may have been a mistake but instead of trying to placate this argument I would be trying to placate my loyal customers for not giving them what they want. It seems in this business you are dammed either way.
In the end it all boils down to trust. I have been in this business since 1985. I have never tried to screw anyone and my bank balance is a testament to how little I have financially benefited from what has been thirty years of very hard work. I think I have earned the benefit of the doubt.
Thanks Dave, from my point of view Panther has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt. I appreciate the dedication and high standards you have for your work and I hope the new model works out well for Panther and I'm am able to buy your games for years to come.
I gotta say I love the new replay feature. I can rename and save multiple replays right? This will be great once its fleshed out. looking forward to watching the replay and jumping in and taking over to explore "what if i did this instead" does any other game have this feature? For me this feature alone is worth the price of buying them all over again and once all the editing stuff is in there should be some fantastic AAR's. I don't suppose they could be an option of watching the replay with or without fog of war and being able to pick which side to watch from?
It should be a nice weekend, i have CO2 to explore and test out the new FPC beta patch.
Quote from: -budd- on March 19, 2015, 09:31:27 PM
I don't suppose they could be an option of watching the replay with or without fog of war and being able to pick which side to watch from?
Actually I can do that right now with the debug version but I deliberately didn't do it for the release version. My thinking was that if I provide that players will be too tempted to cheat. Not that you have that in mind, though. ;)
I believe I have fixed the game speed issue. I'm putting out a new build 5.0.8 later this afternoon. It will go to LNL to work up an installer and should be available early next week.
what about this screen, i was watching a replay at the fastest speed. clicked yes and it seemed to be OK as i went forward, but i didn't continue very long.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo484%2Fronnie8691%2FScreen%2520Shot%252003-19-15%2520at%252008.31%2520PM_zpsx2y7okkz.png&hash=0bb6d7fe8cbb3b0eb21749bf2e21771a78693d52)
on the replay thing i thought it would be interesting to play the other side against your own plan, that would be kinda cool O0
I'd rename the file and save the replay[don't know if each replay is saved or if it just saves over it], play a bunch of scenarios maybe put how i scored in the save replay name and sometime in the future play the other side in my most stunning victories to try and stop myself ;D, by the time i played i would probably forget the plan that gave me the stunning victory.
Quote from: -budd- on March 19, 2015, 10:41:59 PM
on the replay thing i thought it would be interesting to play the other side against your own plan, that would be kinda cool O0
I'd rename the file and save the replay[don't know if each replay is saved or if it just saves over it], play a bunch of scenarios maybe put how i scored in the save replay name and sometime in the future play the other side in my most stunning victories to try and stop myself ;D, by the time i played i would probably forget the plan that gave me the stunning victory.
The way it works is that it overwrites the recording file each time you play. So if you want to keep it, you have to do a copy before you start another game. We chose this way so players didn't end up losing all their disk space.
Just letting you know we have uploaded a new build 5.0.8 to LNL that addresses the game speed and message log issues plus a swag of others. Full details here:
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/build-5-0-8-beta.1321/
In this age of terabyte drives, I would have thought that size wouldn't matter too much. Unless the files are really huge.
Quote from: Pinetree on March 20, 2015, 12:40:35 AM
In this age of terabyte drives, I would have thought that size wouldn't matter too much. Unless the files are really huge.
Well a recording grows the longer the scenario goes for and the more orders you issue. So they can get quite large.
I agree with Toonces - superb post Dave and thanks for clarifying.
I rebought the Commanders Pack - it's alot of game for a great price.
I have no issue with the pricing in principle. In fact, I'm a bigger fan of DLC and paid updates (not bug fixes) than most. My beef with pricing - and your game was a culprit - was the initial outlay. I cannot justify to myself or my wife £100 on a game. Hell, £60 was a stretch. So as games move towards that area, they get less likely as purchases for me.
So your plan...get CO3 for free and buy the Eastern Front modules at $30-$50 each is fine by me and keeps games within "and expected price point". I understand people have other views...but this is mine.
You have to make a living...it was the high initial purchase I could seldom justify. This way - whilst I couldn't buy your 3 Eastern Front modules at the same time for more than £100, I could buy them over 3 months or more...and that is justifiable (for me and my family budget).
Al I would say is get working on a Falklands, 6 Days War, Vietnam and Yom Kippur modules! O0 Each one of those are guaranteed my money.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 05:19:21 AM
Al I would say is get working on a Falklands, 6 Days War, Vietnam and Yom Kippur modules! O0 Each one of those are guaranteed my money.
Thanks Judge. So are you volunteering to help with the data content for those modules. What I am trying to do is focus on the engine development and have others do the data content. We offer a percentage royalty for data developers. It's not going to make anyone rich but may go someway to buying things you want. The royalty we offer is 20% plus 5% for whoever coordinates it. So for instance we had three guys working on the Westwall module due out soon and they share in the 20%. I think the final breakdown between them will be decided by a baseball bat at close quarters. ;)
Quote from: Arjuna on March 20, 2015, 06:12:29 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 05:19:21 AM
Al I would say is get working on a Falklands, 6 Days War, Vietnam and Yom Kippur modules! O0 Each one of those are guaranteed my money.
Thanks Judge. So are you volunteering to help with the data content for those modules. What I am trying to do is focus on the engine development and have others do the data content. We offer a percentage royalty for data developers. It's not going to make anyone rich but may go someway to buying things you want. The royalty we offer is 20% plus 5% for whoever coordinates it. So for instance we had three guys working on the Westwall module due out soon and they share in the 20%. I think the final breakdown between them will be decided by a baseball bat at close quarters. ;)
I love JudgeDredd's proposed campaigns. :P
Command Ops (play style ;) ) 2.0 ^-^
(first crude experimental setup with iDisplay app and Note 10.1)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2F2a65tuh.jpg&hash=71eb75a6044d15a2db38f9d8aea513701e923a90)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2Fqxs5yv.jpg&hash=f4c227074ab1d38d1f845c0a6b1bae2047a7aaa9)
actually, i can use my left hand index finger to press a 'switch' ... maybe i keep the Edit Task window on the main screen and enlarge the secound display for bigger knobs to touch... )
If the paid updates are feature additions, that is fine. The choice to upgrade is there.
I'm just concerned that some bug I consider a notable issue could be left behind if I do decide to purchase the latest version any modules I own, at that point.
We're being asked to take that in faith. When it comes to bugs, I'm not so sure I can do that with such a short turnaround planned between versions. There are always bugs, and often new ones after updates. Maybe it will be okay, maybe not. Perhaps there are very few right now. I don't know, not having played anything in the series since HTTR.
If I buy it and feel compelled to re-purchase the modules all over again for the same price, because some annoying bug I've experienced is only fixed in the new improved version six months later, I would be very unhappy. I don't think that situation can be predicted, so it comes down to whether I want to buy for $50 and hope all is in great shape when that point comes later this year. If I were only purchasing the new one because I wanted the new features/content, then that's a different story, and not the primary issue.
It's all due to post-release support for this version getting a pre-planned cutoff date in the near future. That's the big concern. What if a notable bug or UI issue in the current version is found in a couple months, after the dev team is knee deep into creating the new version? Is it going to be left in the older one for good, or are they going to fix it in both versions? I think modularity is the way to go with game series, but this one seems to be carrying the same issues as BF's - modules that aren't quite so modular in the end. :-\
I want to pick up the initial release version now, but these concerns have me in the "no" category. Especially since there are many other $50 toys on my want list. Convince me.
Perhaps I'm expecting too high a standard when it comes to a modular architecture, after getting used to the system Paradox has implemented so well with EU4 and CK2? Where the core system and past content are all updated and remain compatible no matter which modules you have.
How is this system going to work with user made content?
I notice that CO OPS 1 had full editors, and the matrix site had tons of free user made content. Guys had estabs and scenarios already made for the eastern front.
Will this flexibility continue?
How will user made content scale with all these upgrades?
I'm starting to think that the CMNAO dev path might be better for this. Pay one whopper hundred dollars, but you own it for ever and everything is updated free. That thing has had 20 updates since I bought it.
That's pretty squeeworthy, Mike!
Dave, to clarify: I said the modules are clearly paid beta (paid + beta = paid beta); the core engine and its few test scenarios isn't (beta yes, paid no).
I also said the paid beta isn't a bad thing in this case because there's a clear strong discount involved for getting in early (and without even needing a promise to send feedback).
So I'm not damning you either way. And I know, "paid beta" has such a bad reputation attached to it, I can understand avoiding that phrase in regard to the modules for marketing purposes, even though it's a good thing in this particular case. I guess I'm being idealistic about it; pragmatically it's better to try deflecting attention from that, because of the knee-jerk reaction people now have to the concept.
It needed 20 updates ;)
Seriously though - as I said in my post - I can justify small outputs of cash for gaming. Large outputs are much harder to justify. But that is only my story.
I think Dave's point as well is feasability of staying in the business of making games. Where does CMANO get it's money from? Once it's saturated the "acceptable" market with the game (those who are interested and want it) - where does it get it cash? As a company I mean? Additional content has to be worked on right? And those working on it have to be paid, right? It's inevitable that that cannot continue forever...to coin a popular phrase, something's gotta give.
I've always understood gamers wanting to edit things and create their own in-game content. I always got it. But it doesn't keep with developers making a living, right? I mean...if Dave was to release an editor that allowed gamers the world over to create their Falkland's scenario, or 6 Days War or Yom Kippur...and the gamers make the content good enough, then there goes Dave's $$$
It's never made any sense to me that developers release a game that is moddable to the point where they lose the ability to provide paid for content. Sure...let users customise chits, graphics, tweak settings...but why would you give them the ability to create new scenarios when your business model is creating and selling new scenarios?
They have done - to their credit. But I never got how one would not affect the other quite drastically.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
It's never made any sense to me that developers release a game that is moddable to the point where they lose the ability to provide paid for content. Sure...let users customise chits, graphics, tweak settings...but why would you give them the ability to create new scenarios when your business model is creating and selling new scenarios?
They have done - to their credit. But I never got how one would not affect the other quite drastically.
Modability definitely adds value to a purchase, and persuades some to buy in the first place. That's one reason developers do it.
However.. I don't recall seeing any official expansions from dev teams suffering just because there were lots of mods out for the base game. If anything, I often see mods
requiring the official expansions for them to work. They actually push people to own the complete set. It's win-win.
Its always bugged me some small developers not letting people mod their games...and then go on to release one expansion in 12 months.
If you aren't going to expand your game system, at least let someone else do it for free. Or even sell a license to do it.
I think modders can help a dev, they create data and scenarios. This then frees up the dev to add big feature upgrades which radically inhance gameplay. Just look at ARMA3. I hated the near future setting, but I bought the game because I new the mods we're going to be fantastic.
Quote from: Arjuna on March 19, 2015, 10:12:11 PM
I believe I have fixed the game speed issue. I'm putting out a new build 5.0.8 later this afternoon. It will go to LNL to work up an installer and should be available early next week.
That is great news! That bug, and the re-center on the unit when you select an event to edit are about the only issues I have at this point. I'm otherwise finding the game a lot of fun to play. For those not seeing differences between this and CO1, grab the free engine and scenarios, read about the changes in the documentation and give those scenarios a try. The additions are subtle, but significant.
I'm having so much fun replaying the St. Vith tutorial scenario I've yet to try any of the new stuff!
Quote from: Arjuna on March 20, 2015, 06:12:29 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 05:19:21 AM
Al I would say is get working on a Falklands, 6 Days War, Vietnam and Yom Kippur modules! O0 Each one of those are guaranteed my money.
Thanks Judge. So are you volunteering to help with the data content for those modules. What I am trying to do is focus on the engine development and have others do the data content. We offer a percentage royalty for data developers. It's not going to make anyone rich but may go someway to buying things you want. The royalty we offer is 20% plus 5% for whoever coordinates it. So for instance we had three guys working on the Westwall module due out soon and they share in the 20%. I think the final breakdown between them will be decided by a baseball bat at close quarters. ;)
I would love to be of help without even charging - but, I have a big headache with doing so...I enjoy playing computer games...not spending time building them. That's one reason I never take part in BETA testing anymore.
I don't have an great deal of time to play games, so when I do have the time, I just want to play
Besides - I would have NO CLUE how to go about getting the info you would need...not a single solitary clue :idiot2:
Quote from: panzerde on March 20, 2015, 05:05:41 PM
the re-center on the unit when you select an event to edit are about the only issues I have at this point.
I ran out of time to fix the centring bug for the new 5.0.8 build but I did work out what's causing it. It's to do with the OB display. If you close it you won't get that behaviour. What is happening is that we had put some smarts into the selection code within the OB display that would bring the selected unit into view. Later we synced the unit selection and task selection code so that selecting a task selects the unit and that in turn selects the entry in the OB display. This then brings the unit icon into view. What I will be doing next week is removing that automatic BringIntoView behaviour and make this an option for when you double-click an entry in the OB display.
Well, that makes sense and is easily worked around for now. Thanks for the update!
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
I've always understood gamers wanting to edit things and create their own in-game content. I always got it. But it doesn't keep with developers making a living, right? I mean...if Dave was to release an editor that allowed gamers the world over to create their Falkland's scenario, or 6 Days War or Yom Kippur...and the gamers make the content good enough, then there goes Dave's $$$
Actually, I suspect you could do most aspects of the ground war for all three of those using the current released modding tools. (Command Ops & Command Ops 2 both have the Map Maker, the Scenario Maker, and the Estab Editor (unit creator) shipped with them.) For the three wars you list, you might get away with ignoring the things that simply don't exist in the engine, such as: attack, transport, and recon helicopters; standoff air support; long range air defense; counterbattery radars; and by using workarounds for minefields and breaching of minefields. Edit: And changes in doctrinal frontages, since the CO/CO2 engines assume it's still WW2 when it maneuvers units.
What stops people? It's a ton of work. :)
Definitely need Helicopters including air insertion and a more sophisticated air strike mechanic for more modern wars I feel.
Whether we will see the more niche Wars is to be seen..though I reckon there is far more of a chance since the move to LnL than there would have been with Slitherine. Personally I have no real interest in Wars in the Middle East though Falklands may be something I'd be interested in. Still I do know many out there want to see some wargames set in the Middle East.
Quote from: James Sterrett on March 20, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 20, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
I've always understood gamers wanting to edit things and create their own in-game content. I always got it. But it doesn't keep with developers making a living, right? I mean...if Dave was to release an editor that allowed gamers the world over to create their Falkland's scenario, or 6 Days War or Yom Kippur...and the gamers make the content good enough, then there goes Dave's $$$
Actually, I suspect you could do most aspects of the ground war for all three of those using the current released modding tools. (Command Ops & Command Ops 2 both have the Map Maker, the Scenario Maker, and the Estab Editor (unit creator) shipped with them.) For the three wars you list, you might get away with ignoring the things that simply don't exist in the engine, such as: attack, transport, and recon helicopters; standoff air support; long range air defense; counterbattery radars; and by using workarounds for minefields and breaching of minefields. Edit: And changes in doctrinal frontages, since the CO/CO2 engines assume it's still WW2 when it maneuvers units.
What stops people? It's a ton of work. :)
JS...Great comment about 'what stops people'. Also...some of us have no passion to do mod work. I love movies but have no desire to make a movie. Same with games.
Enjoying the demo scenarios so far..love the new UI features like enemy anti armour overlay etc. Gives you much better idea on LOS which was always more like guess work previously. Also like being able to comparing different selection of units, again helps you in working out what you need to attack say a group of units near the Obj.
Currently game really slows down when you have a unit selected, apart from that good job. Still not sure weather to buy the pack after buying HTTR and some of COTA twice already (If you take the first game then have bought HTTR scenarios 3 times already). I will probably wait for the next engine version and the East front module..unless I come into abit of money.
its funny i just bought the commanders pack, but i've just played the tutorial scenario to learn the system again and i haven't had any slow downs that i've noticed and i play on a laptop with an integrated intel card. It will be nice when the message thing is fixed, i don't always get the slipped task messages. i played yesterday and about a third of the way through the messages started showing up in the message box. the more i play the more i like the new UI and i'm sure it will get better as it goes. Can someone tell me what the resupply times are ,twice a day ...right...at what time. I got to get back to St Vith its just after 1:30 day 1 and i hold 3 of the objectives and its time to decide if i will probe into St.Vith. might the let the guys catch an hours rest and then send a probe in.....good stuff.
Quote from: -budd- on March 21, 2015, 01:46:02 PM
its funny i just bought the commanders pack, but i've just played the tutorial scenario to learn the system again and i haven't had any slow downs that i've noticed and i play on a laptop with an integrated intel card. It will be nice when the message thing is fixed, i don't always get the slipped task messages. i played yesterday and about a third of the way through the messages started showing up in the message box. the more i play the more i like the new UI and i'm sure it will get better as it goes. Can someone tell me what the resupply times are ,twice a day ...right...at what time. I got to get back to St Vith its just after 1:30 day 1 and i hold 3 of the objectives and its time to decide if i will probe into St.Vith. might the let the guys catch an hours rest and then send a probe in.....good stuff.
budd,
The new build 5.0.8 should be out a few days. It will have the fixes for the slow down and for the message log. Regular resupply occurs twice per day - 0600 and 1800. However, in some scenarios one side may be restricted to just the night time resupply at 1800. In addition units can request emergency resup at any time ( eg if they run out of ammo or fuel ).
Any update on the garbled text on the Orders and Order of Battle windows that some people are seeing? Or at least a workaround?
Thanks
Quote from: smittyohio on March 21, 2015, 07:12:13 PM
Any update on the garbled text on the Orders and Order of Battle windows that some people are seeing? Or at least a workaround?
Thanks
If it is happening when looking at Force Info just hit the ES tab then go back and it's fine.
Quote from: smittyohio on March 21, 2015, 07:12:13 PM
Any update on the garbled text on the Orders and Order of Battle windows that some people are seeing? Or at least a workaround?
Thanks
smitty,
Could you please raise a thread on this on the LNL CO2 Game Support subForum. Can you include a screen shot. Thanks.
One question though. Are you running your display at 100% font size - ie 96dpi? You can check that by right clicking the desktop and choosing Screen Resolution from the context menu. This is the Windows desktop, not in game.
close the orders/OOB window, alt tab to desktop and then go back into game and the text should be fine when you open it.....thats what works for me...didn't know about the ES tab thing, i'll try that.
Quote from: Arjuna on March 21, 2015, 07:30:43 PM
Quote from: smittyohio on March 21, 2015, 07:12:13 PM
Any update on the garbled text on the Orders and Order of Battle windows that some people are seeing? Or at least a workaround?
Thanks
smitty,
Could you please raise a thread on this on the LNL CO2 Game Support subForum. Can you include a screen shot. Thanks.
One question though. Are you running your display at 100% font size - ie 96dpi? You can check that by right clicking the desktop and choosing Screen Resolution from the context menu. This is the Windows desktop, not in game.
I am running at 100%, 96dpi. I'll try to get some screenshots up there by tomorrow morning. Thanks!
Quote from: -budd- on March 21, 2015, 07:49:02 PM
close the orders/OOB window, alt tab to desktop and then go back into game and the text should be fine when you open it.....thats what works for me...didn't know about the ES tab thing, i'll try that.
Thanks, but I saw your post on the LnL forums and tried that.. doesn't work for me unfortunately.
Quote from: smittyohio on March 21, 2015, 07:50:41 PM
Quote from: -budd- on March 21, 2015, 07:49:02 PM
close the orders/OOB window, alt tab to desktop and then go back into game and the text should be fine when you open it.....thats what works for me...didn't know about the ES tab thing, i'll try that.
Thanks, but I saw your post on the LnL forums and tried that.. doesn't work for me unfortunately.
Actually... what works for me is just leaving the window open.... It works fine them. But the second I close it and reopen, it's garbled.
the 5.08 version engine patch is live:) ...check your updater to install
Thanks MikeGER
OK this ight be simple to others but how do you update? When I launch CO2 I dont see any option for updating to a new version?
Thanks
Con
Quote from: Con on March 25, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
OK this ight be simple to others but how do you update? When I launch CO2 I dont see any option for updating to a new version?
There's an update application in the program folder on your start menu. Run that and it will update the game.
Quote from: Con on March 25, 2015, 06:22:50 PM
OK this ight be simple to others but how do you update? When I launch CO2 I dont see any option for updating to a new version?
Thanks
Con
when i installed the game, it placed two icons on the desktop.
One is named "Update Command Ops 2" , and it checks for update before starting the sim.
^aight...but I'm not exactly sure why there's two icons. Why not just have the update one that checks - after all, that fires up the game anyway.
There is a problem with the update one though...when you click on it and it starts checking for an update, it loads the game anyway - which would stop any update from occurring. It needs some fine tuning.
how long is the offer on for? can't make my mind up on these.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 26, 2015, 03:02:28 AM
^aight...but I'm not exactly sure why there's two icons. Why not just have the update one that checks - after all, that fires up the game anyway.
There is a problem with the update one though...when you click on it and it starts checking for an update, it loads the game anyway - which would stop any update from occurring. It needs some fine tuning.
I meant to post this on the LnL boards but figured everyone would have reported it already. The icon points to the game executable and not the updater. The link in the start menu is correct though.
Quote from: FlickJax on March 26, 2015, 06:50:04 AM
how long is the offer on for? can't make my mind up on these.
There must be some 80 days left of the initial 90-day sale period.
Quote from: Pete Dero on March 26, 2015, 07:50:45 AM
Quote from: FlickJax on March 26, 2015, 06:50:04 AM
how long is the offer on for? can't make my mind up on these.
There must be some 80 days left of the initial 90-day sale period.
Thanks plenty of time to try it out then :)
Incidentally, I was order 2120 this afternoon. :smitten:
The forum activity about this game died out quite quickly. Any further impressions by those who got the package ?
I have the matrix versions and i need a really good reason to buy these games once again.
I'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 14, 2015, 09:37:04 AMI'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
Pete, if you want to try out FPCRS, you can get the full game with just the single scenario from our contest back at the end of 2013 here: http://grogheads.com/?p=3459
if you want to chat about that one further, jump over to this thread: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=12316.0
The CO2 base game w/ ~3 scenarios is also free, so you could try-before-you-buy, too.
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 14, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
The forum activity about this game died out quite quickly. Any further impressions by those who got the package ?
I have the matrix versions and i need a really good reason to buy these games once again.
I'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
I don't believe Flashpoint Campaigns: RS is anything like Command Ops in terms of engine, gameplay, graphics, etc. Both are great but different.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on April 14, 2015, 09:46:59 AM
Pete, if you want to try out FPCRS, you can get the full game with just the single scenario from our contest back at the end of 2013 here: http://grogheads.com/?p=3459
Thanks for this tip. Already downloading.
Quote from: Rayfer on April 14, 2015, 09:47:59 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 14, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
The forum activity about this game died out quite quickly. Any further impressions by those who got the package ?
I have the matrix versions and i need a really good reason to buy these games once again.
I'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
I don't believe Flashpoint Campaigns: RS is anything like Command Ops in terms of engine, gameplay, graphics, etc. Both are great but different.
agreed. My intent wasn't to compare them. It was to point them to the not-a-demo-but-kind-of-a-demo contest version of the game.
Quote from: Rayfer on April 14, 2015, 09:47:59 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 14, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
The forum activity about this game died out quite quickly. Any further impressions by those who got the package ?
I have the matrix versions and i need a really good reason to buy these games once again.
I'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
I don't believe Flashpoint Campaigns: RS is anything like Command Ops in terms of engine, gameplay, graphics, etc. Both are great but different.
Oh I don't know - I think they both share the same frisson of waiting to see what (and when) the AI will do with your orders...
Quote from: Father Ted on April 14, 2015, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on April 14, 2015, 09:47:59 AM
Quote from: Pete Dero on April 14, 2015, 09:37:04 AM
The forum activity about this game died out quite quickly. Any further impressions by those who got the package ?
I have the matrix versions and i need a really good reason to buy these games once again.
I'm thinking about getting Command Ops 2 or Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm (looks to me like the cold war Command Ops).
I don't believe Flashpoint Campaigns: RS is anything like Command Ops in terms of engine, gameplay, graphics, etc. Both are great but different.
Oh I don't know - I think they both share the same frisson of waiting to see what (and when) the AI will do with your orders...
LOL...never in my life have I seen someone use the word 'frisson' in speech or print. Good one ft....!!
there both fantastic products with great support, must buys IMHO. I'm also someone who owned CO1 [actually the third time i bought HTTR] the package deal really sealed it for me. thats alot of game for the price. I like the new UI and i love the new replay feature and hope they expand it so you can keep more than one, i guess you really can now if you copy it before you play again. Once he gets the sync issue resolved i can see me using this feature a lot. Watching a battle you previously played up to a certain point and then jumping in and changing the narrative . I hope he makes it playable from both sides, that way you could play against your own plan O0 It's beta so there's going to be growing pains but i'm confident Panther will get them worked out. At the end of the day you can't go wrong with either game, but i defiantly would get CO2 before the bundle deal runs out.
The new update is available for download.
list of fixes
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/build-5-0-10.1548/
With the bundle pack discount likely coming to an end in the near future, what's the verdict with the new game? Personally, although the base game is free, I haven't really put much time into it. Originally I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, but something just held me back and at this point not sure if I will buy it now or just wait for future installments.
the price goes away After june 16. The new build released last week is solid and so far i haven't seen any showstoppers, of course i've only played 2 scenario's so far. CO2 right now is mostly UI changes and additions with some AI work. I really like the new UI and with Panther being so receptive to user feedback it will only get better. The content is basically the same if you owned all the CO1 packs and it had been awhile since i played CO1 i couldn't honestly tell you if their was a difference in play, CO1 in its final state is a very solid product. I owned all of CO1 and the original HTTR and it doesn't bother me that i bought them again as i think CO is a special product. The commander packs price it what pushed me over the edge, thats a more than fair price even if you already own them. With the price and the desire to support Panther so CO can continue to be developed it ended up being a no brainer for me. Panther is one of the few companies that i'm a fanboy of, my advice, buy the commanders pack and give away CO1 to someone else. That way you get to support Panther and make someone's day.
Thanks Budd, appreciate the feedback...I am guessing I will pull the trigger before the 16th, I just thought for some reason I would be more excited, but just hasn't been that way for some reason.
Just do it. Megavalue of the year.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 24, 2015, 07:47:23 AM
With the bundle pack discount likely coming to an end in the near future, what's the verdict with the new game? Personally, although the base game is free, I haven't really put much time into it. Originally I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, but something just held me back and at this point not sure if I will buy it now or just wait for future installments.
mmm...if you are anything like me (and you are!) I'd regret not buying this during the huge discount sale and if I did actually miss the discount it's likely something I would end up buying and paying for anyway - paying full whack.
I haven't used it a bunch since I got it - but strangely, I don't feel like I've wasted money. That doesn't make much sense, I know - but the game is superb and it's just a wise investment for me...I know I will play this...not every day...not every week...but I will play it and I have a few years left in me hopefully.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 25, 2015, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 24, 2015, 07:47:23 AM
With the bundle pack discount likely coming to an end in the near future, what's the verdict with the new game? Personally, although the base game is free, I haven't really put much time into it. Originally I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, but something just held me back and at this point not sure if I will buy it now or just wait for future installments.
mmm...if you are anything like me (and you are!) I'd regret not buying this during the huge discount sale and if I did actually miss the discount it's likely something I would end up buying and paying for anyway - paying full whack.
I haven't used it a bunch since I got it - but strangely, I don't feel like I've wasted money. That doesn't make much sense, I know - but the game is superb and it's just a wise investment for me...I know I will play this...not every day...not every week...but I will play it and I have a few years left in me hopefully.
Yeah, that is my fear, regretting not picking it up afterwards....in reality, it is more about when to buy them versus if to buy them.....just whether I buy them now or after the next major update, when we all have to buy them again anyway, just wish I knew what the prices will be for future updates to our existing scenarios....I am sure I'll cave this time around and then future purchases and timing will be based on how the updates/pricing happen in the future.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 25, 2015, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on May 24, 2015, 07:47:23 AM
With the bundle pack discount likely coming to an end in the near future, what's the verdict with the new game? Personally, although the base game is free, I haven't really put much time into it. Originally I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, but something just held me back and at this point not sure if I will buy it now or just wait for future installments.
mmm...if you are anything like me (and you are!) I'd regret not buying this during the huge discount sale and if I did actually miss the discount it's likely something I would end up buying and paying for anyway - paying full whack.
I haven't used it a bunch since I got it - but strangely, I don't feel like I've wasted money. That doesn't make much sense, I know - but the game is superb and it's just a wise investment for me...I know I will play this...not every day...not every week...but I will play it and I have a few years left in me hopefully.
This! I feel exactly the same.
I love the idea of this game, but I fall asleep playing it.
I've become a sim guy, I have to fly a plane or drive a tank in a 3d world and watch things go boom while I operate a piece of complex military hardware.
Staring at 2d counters isn't for me lately, so I passed Sale or not. I'd love to see this game zoom in and see what those 3d pixel truppen are doing in a 3d world, to me that would be ground breaking. I may revisit this again when they go to the eastern front.
I'm not sure i will update my modules, depends on the features. I am real curious how thats going to work, porting features back. Imagine how much of a change and work it would be porting back something like mounted ops. Mounted ops is going to be a big game changer, dismounting before assaulting, tank riders, ect. . One thing i think is long overdue is a map upgrade, not to 3d, but something that makes reading the terrain and elevations easier. Hope they give plodder a shot at the game maps.
Quote from: Skoop on May 25, 2015, 01:43:41 PM
Staring at 2d counters isn't for me lately, so I passed Sale or not. I'd love to see this game zoom in and see what those 3d pixel truppen are doing in a 3d world, to me that would be ground breaking. I may revisit this again when they go to the eastern front.
If you're interested in East Front scenario's you should check out the amazing work being done by Chris Maiorana at http://thesharpendgaming.blogspot.com/ (http://thesharpendgaming.blogspot.com/).
I bought Bulge and HITR at Matrix and never played them.. So 50 was too high for me for an 'upgrade'.. If it was a first time buyer, it definitely is a great deal. But I thought they were gonna have specific scenario upgrades at a discount, but later on, it seems that didn't happen, because of the full package one. So even though I also like the concept, I never played, so I'll pass. LOL and I'll think that I regret it later, but I'll get over it.
Those east front scenarios are the ones that convinced me to buy.
Can you play those with the free engine or do you need any of the paid packs ? It was unclear to me, it almost seems that you could download everything as free content and play ?
Quote from: Skoop on May 25, 2015, 02:24:25 PM
Can you play those with the free engine or do you need any of the paid packs ? It was unclear to me, it almost seems that you could download everything as free content and play ?
If you're talking about Chris' scenarios, his are all free. Since LnL/Panther have yet to release any "official" East Front scenarios Chris generally releases everything you need to play them. Note that most of these were developed for CO1 and he's in progress of converting them for CO2.
I extensively play-tested most of these and they are a good bunch of scenarios. Chris has done great work on maps and the OOBs.
Having said that, if you play his scenarios and like them, I encourage you to buy at least some of the scenario packs that LnL/Panther has made available. They can't keep making the game without money, and without a game, Chris won't be making more scenarios. It's a damn good game and there's really nothing else like it out there.
Quote from: -budd- on May 25, 2015, 01:45:31 PM
I'm not sure i will update my modules, depends on the features. I am real curious how thats going to work, porting features back. Imagine how much of a change and work it would be porting back something like mounted ops. Mounted ops is going to be a big game changer, dismounting before assaulting, tank riders, ect. . One thing i think is long overdue is a map upgrade, not to 3d, but something that makes reading the terrain and elevations easier. Hope they give plodder a shot at the game maps.
That one would be huge for me also. It's the single biggest let down of the game. They have improved the tools somewhat - but it's still a mare to read the terrain easily.
Quote from: -budd- on May 25, 2015, 01:45:31 PM
I'm not sure i will update my modules, depends on the features. I am real curious how thats going to work, porting features back. Imagine how much of a change and work it would be porting back something like mounted ops. Mounted ops is going to be a big game changer, dismounting before assaulting, tank riders, ect. . One thing i think is long overdue is a map upgrade, not to 3d, but something that makes reading the terrain and elevations easier. Hope they give plodder a shot at the game maps.
Therein lays the problem imo and rears its head again with this *new* version. The changes to the games are extremely incremental. Stuff like Mounted Ops and map presentation, and a host of others, have been suggested and pointed out for years, and never get done... I understand the desire to support the developer/game; I have done it with Panther through to CO1 and with other developers. However, I really can't see myself paying for this game again without some major improvements. I had initially thought the break from Matrix would bring some needed impetus to that, but the new core engine removed any question of that. I only write this in the still hope, likely vain, of some major changes to this game before opening the wallet again, instead of 'quietly' supporting.
For me CO1 and CO2 are too similar. I have CO1 and all expansions and for now I don't see any reason to buy it again. I'm waiting for first big update to see how their business model with paid updates will work for me. It is great deal if you don't own CO1.
I want to support developer but sell me something new. I don't want remake and some promises.
Quote from: salazarus on May 26, 2015, 07:23:22 AM
For me CO1 and CO2 are too similar. I have CO1 and all expansions and for now I don't see any reason to buy it again. I'm waiting for first big update to see how their business model with paid updates will work for me. It is great deal if you don't own CO1.
I want to support developer but sell me something new. I don't want remake and some promises.
+1
I'm waiting too. I have the complete CO1, and so I'm more interested in any new modules. I read this in the forums (http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/):
QuoteIn a years time we will have released at least two and maybe up to four more modules. At that time we may offer another bundle or we may combine all of them into the one new bundle. I want to keep my options open at this stage. But I would envisage on offering a similar type of limited time discount as we have with the current Commander Pack.
I wanna see if Comand Ops Mosul takes shape. Anything not WW2 is good for me.
Quote from: -budd- on May 25, 2015, 01:45:31 PM
I'm not sure i will update my modules, depends on the features. I am real curious how that's going to work, porting features back. Imagine how much of a change and work it would be porting back something like mounted ops. Mounted ops is going to be a big game changer, dismounting before assaulting, tank riders, ect.
i doubt the existing modules will get updated to mounted ops and tank-riders.
(and i would re-buy them again only for a very very tempting small bundle price ....i think customer who buys a new scenario set should get a coupon to upgrade old scenarios in his existing collection for a minimal fee)
at the end of the day there is always 'red' battalion X
degrading/repelling/annihilating 'blue' battalion Y
and the old scenario was balanced in a way that the outcome of such a meeting in a given situation factoring in stance,landscape, you name it... of those two forces is 'historical plausible' (number of casualties / time until retreat or annihilation) ...so the 'details of the battle' (mounted or not mounted) were already somehow factored in with the other parameters
now in a updated version of that scenario you would see (or control if you interfer) the details -like mounting and dismounting in an assault - ....but the outcome of the battle a few hours into the assault (the statistic) should be the same in the old and reworked old scenario.
of course i got the bundle :)
...but i am more interested in new scenarios now which where build with the upcoming (eatern front)features in mind, because they had historical importance in those battlefields ....and its always nice to have more control, if i want to micro but fortunately cause of the outstanding Command Ops AI, i don't have to micro
Their whole business is all about updating modules for fee and the fee won't be minimal. It will be around $50 for bundle. That gives $100 a year to keep the game updated (tbh the $50 tag isn't fixed and they will sell smaller updates for less). I will probably buy CO2 after mayor update but I need to see features worth my money.
Quote from: salazarus on May 27, 2015, 02:45:06 AM
Their whole business is all about updating modules for fee and the fee won't be minimal. It will be around $50 for bundle. That gives $100 a year to keep the game updated (tbh the $50 tag isn't fixed and they will sell smaller updates for less).
i think the main business will still be selling new modules for the price of main standalone CO title in the past (depending on the numbers of scenarios included. so roughly 2 sets = one standalone in the past)
and fortunately (when it came to game money spendings) PantherGames is so slooow >:D that there will be only one 50-buck-bundle upgrade every 2 years so (and that engine version may not even have enuf new features added to pull the trigger on upgrading older scenarios so it can also be 4 years) ....so its $25 a year, or less ;)
Quote from: MikeGER on May 27, 2015, 04:19:50 AM
and fortunately (when it came to game money spendings) PantherGames is so slooow >:D that there will be only one 50-buck-bundle upgrade every 2 years so (and that engine version may not even have enuf new features added to pull the trigger on upgrading older scenarios so it can also be 4 years) ....so its $25 a year, or less ;)
I think You are right. It is sad because I want to support devs. But for now I don't see any reason to get CO2. It feels more like CO1.5. Nonetheless I hope that first mayor update will be great with a ton of nice new features so I can pull the trigger. I'm angry because CO2 was my day 1 purchase and now it is I'll wait and see.
I fired this up tonight and started Parachutes over Corinth.
A few things I noticed
- The order buttons are aligned to the bottom of the screen and very handy there
- The task you give your units does not seem to be centred. So ordering a unit to defend shows the standard square, but the defend icon is not in the centre of the square
- I loaded a dialog to view a task and it wasn't displaying the info properly (running off the bottom of the dialog)
- When I tried to move said dialog, the game crashed and chucked me to the desktop
So...not a great first try :'(
Quote from: JudgeDredd on May 27, 2015, 03:03:03 PM
I fired this up tonight and started Parachutes over Corinth.
A few things I noticed
- The order buttons are aligned to the bottom of the screen and very handy there
- The task you give your units does not seem to be centred. So ordering a unit to defend shows the standard square, but the defend icon is not in the centre of the square
- I loaded a dialog to view a task and it wasn't displaying the info properly (running off the bottom of the dialog)
- When I tried to move said dialog, the game crashed and chucked me to the desktop
So...not a great first try :'(
Were you playing with the latest patches installed? I know they have released several, not sure if would help if you didn't yet.
Seems not. I'm downloading now
Thanks for the heads up. I'm so used to my games being auto-updated (Steam)
Installed the patch. The crash did not occur and the screens looked correct - but the order icon was still not in the centre of the square.
Just a reminder, only 3 days left for people that want the deal on the commander pack.....I still haven't pull the trigger myself, but still thinking:)
just do it ;)...........or not, CO1 plays fine. It is a nice priced packaged, i'm not sure whether i'll upgrade my packs in the future or just buy going forward, depends on how the upcoming features effect gameplay. Mounted ops is going to be a real big change, might upgrade for that feature. CO2 engine is pretty close to going final and the new west wall module is right around the bend. I think my favorite features of CO2 are the record/playback feature, i like jumping in and taking over from where my plans went wrong and trying different things. I hope Panther makes it so you can play either side in the playback, that would be sweet, apparently you can already do that in the developers build and being able to save more than 1 recording[you can rename and do this currently] The other feature i really like is the plan dialog box, pop it open and check all your orders and their status...nice. I think my one biggest complaint is the maps, functional but reading the terrain features, LOS, elevation could be better. Don't need 3d just something to make reading the terrain easier. I read that plodders situation maps for the scenario introduction screens are done for BFTB and will be in the next update.These look pretty killer
new build available, plodders scenario maps for the briefing screen are in for the BTFB & Ride of the Valkyries modules. great looking briefing maps.
Thank you.
They are stunning. I'm waiting patiently for him to complete my fav AO - Aegean.
Looks like they will extend the commanders pack sale price until the end of the month.
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/sale-on-command-ops-2-the-commander-pack-continues.1764/#post-8795
Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 18, 2015, 03:17:50 PM
Thank you.
They are stunning. I'm waiting patiently for him to complete my fav AO - Aegean.
Glad you like them. :) HTTR is next then it's Greece and Med.
Quote from: Pinetree on June 18, 2015, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 18, 2015, 03:17:50 PM
Thank you.
They are stunning. I'm waiting patiently for him to complete my fav AO - Aegean.
Glad you like them. :) HTTR is next then it's Greece and Med.
Ever thought about taking a shot at the game maps ;D
new build released
Quote from: -budd- on June 18, 2015, 09:28:57 PM
Quote from: Pinetree on June 18, 2015, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 18, 2015, 03:17:50 PM
Thank you.
They are stunning. I'm waiting patiently for him to complete my fav AO - Aegean.
Glad you like them. :) HTTR is next then it's Greece and Med.
Ever thought about taking a shot at the game maps ;D
I've actually got a couple of ideas about relief shading. I have to find some time to see out if they work or not.
Westwall released .... http://store.lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-westwall $29.99
Also the price of the commanders pack reduced to $99.00 .... http://store.lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-the-commander-pack
the commanders pack includes all modules EXCEPT for the just released westwall.
So help me remember again, I get so confused on their pricing models. When the next major upgrade is released, we would have to purchase all the modules again if we want to use the new engine? Been hinting about buying this but if you need to purchase everything again, I'll likely just wait until the next major release,
Minor updates and bug fixes are free. big updates like mounted ops/sequential tasking you would pay to upgrade and there would be a package deal to upgrade all your modules or you can pick and choose which modules to upgrade. they haven't been concrete as to price to upgrade yet as it hasn't happened yet. You don't have to upgrade any of your modules they will play just fine as is. Mounted ops and sequential tasking are game changers and i will pay to upgrade my modules for those. Those alone will take a lot of work and those must be done before anything on the east front is done right. If i have to pay lets say $50 to upgrade all modules, i'm going to do it without blinking. But then i'm not exactly sure how big a deal those features would be in say HTTR, so maybe i don't upgrade that one. You get to choose. It's not as good of a deal as the original discount but you get a lot of game for $99 and a wide variety of locations to battle in. Less the $20 a module, that's a pretty good deal.
Thanks budd.....I am sure it is a reasonable deal, just makes my head hurt when I try to understand it:). If I were to buy the the commander pack and the new module, would be $125...although very good game, just not sure I can justify that price based on how much I play. I know I don't need to buy every module, but I always want it all:)
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on October 05, 2015, 07:24:17 PM
Thanks budd.....I am sure it is a reasonable deal, just makes my head hurt when I try to understand it:). If I were to buy the the commander pack and the new module, would be $125...although very good game, just not sure I can justify that price based on how much I play. I know I don't need to buy every module, but I always want it all:)
You and me both....its a bit of a sickness, really :D there are very few games i'm a fan boy of, CO is just one of them for me. I get it......AGEOD games i don't. I will be picking up the westwall sooner or later, there's no hurry its not on sale. I hate that release day sale shit....I fold everytime :uglystupid2: i'm pretty wrapped up in CSME right now so no hurry. I suggest playing the CO2 demo a bunch it comes with 3 good scenarios of various sizes to see if it clicks for you.
Well since I need to buy csme, likely will hold off longer on this one:)
Quote from: -budd- on October 05, 2015, 06:22:30 PM
Westwall released .... http://store.lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-westwall $29.99
Also the price of the commanders pack reduced to $99.00 .... http://store.lnlpublishing.com/command-ops-2-the-commander-pack
the commanders pack includes all modules EXCEPT for the just released westwall.
That's quite expensive for a 12 scenario DLC.
There's a lot of game play to be had in those 12 scenario's
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo484%2Fronnie8691%2FScreenShot010_zpsuwdbugxe.jpg&hash=30e5846aed0dd286855274f3a88d4d9391a8f8d5)
Does this game require you to RTFM? And is it a thick one?
I like the premise of the game, but I am not sure if I have the backbone right now to sit down with it if it turns out to be a detailed wargame like WitP or so.
Panther did a really nice video tutorial on the system. It was done for the previous version, but generally still applies. Much easier than RTFM.
It is definitely not as micro-management oriented as WitP or WitE. Grand tactical/Operational scale, you need to be concerned about supply lines but not get into the nitty gritty of making sure you allocate supply to units appropriate to their mission, etc.
Somewhat like Flashpoint Campaigns, this is a game where you are more concerned with being the overall force commander and so issue general orders and then let your AI sub-leaders carry them out. Ideally you never command more then two levels down from your notional position - so, if you're a divisional commander, you are issuing order to no units lower echelon than regiments. You may have special detachments or pull together special task forces or kampfgruppes, but if you're commanding all of the things you are missing the point.
So, longish on command and control, not so much on things like logistics. In general I think it's pretty intuitive to play.
That being said to sometimes pull off wins in the most difficult scenarios (usually German) you do need to really know all the strengths/weaknesses/moral etc of your units. You might need to command individual units to do block strategic choke points (or take them).
There is a lot of planning that will tip things your way including how to run your arty (on call manual target support units). Its a great game but the more you know the better you will be at overcoming some formidable battles
Conrad
Quote from: Yskonyn on October 11, 2015, 12:59:41 PM
Does this game require you to RTFM? And is it a thick one?
Short answer yes and yes. That said the vids Panzerde mentions are really very good. I actually quite enjoy the process of learning a new gaming system. In this case I also think it's worthwhile because the system is so flexible - you can either formulate a grand plan, issue orders and watch events unfold, or play it like an RTS, or mix and match your approach. If you watch the vids and RTFM I think there is an awful lot of enjoyment to be had from this.
To get started...naw you don't have to RTFM. Watch the vids, play along. To understand the system and how it works your going to have to RTFM. Download the base game which comes with 3 scenarios for free. Sometimes to start, depending on scenario size your only giving 3 to 6 orders.
Just saw this. KOAD is on the way. Knock On All Doors is set in the first 48 hours of the bulge. 12 scenario's 6 historical, 6 hypothetical. These are a little bigger scenario's then before, the maps look absolutely huge. Wonder how they will run, here's the link. http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/knock-on-all-doors-koad-is-on-the-way.2109/
I never read the manual and I never lost a game.
Did I play the game properly, utilising all the units abilities to their maximum? Make the best use of HQ's? Nope...but I never lost. I drew a few, but never lost. I am referring to the previous instalment of the games (namely HTTR, CotA, BftB).
That's impressive, I think I was the opposite and never won a single battle:). Really wish I would have put more time in with this game since it really does appear to have what I want by not needing to micro manage everything. Although would love to see them move to an era beyond world war 2 and stop releasing generally the same topics for the different versions. As I mentioned before, for my play habits this game has reached the too expensive category so likely not something I'll be going back too anytime soon.
Regardless of price and somewhat confusing upgrade policy, still very much worth it for people who would play it regularly.
I watched the 'Game Concepts' and Tutorial video's and I must say that has made me much more interested in the game.
The price of admission is something I am not sure about though.
First, I'll get proficient at the free scenarios and take it from there. 99 bucks is a lot of money...
Quote from: Yskonyn on October 15, 2015, 04:54:26 AM
I watched the 'Game Concepts' and Tutorial video's and I must say that has made me much more interested in the game.
The price of admission is something I am not sure about though.
First, I'll get proficient at the free scenarios and take it from there. 99 bucks is a lot of money...
I wish I could get into these games.... It just got frustrating when units didn't do what you wanted, and the interface just didn't provide enough information (to me at least) to know why. It'd be cool if you could click on a unit and request a user-friendly status update... "Sir, my men got shot up at the rally point" or "Waiting on 4th company to join us". I just remember them sitting there with that "planning" icon or whatever. I don't mind the units acting somewhat out of my control, just more information on why.
Yea $99 is a chunk to drop, but its basically 5 games. Enjoy return to st.vith should give you a good intro to the game. Don't forget the replay feature where after your done with the scenario and maybe at a particular point you want to try something different, jump in the replay at that point and play from there. Enjoy.
Quote from: smittyohio on October 15, 2015, 08:18:09 AM
I just remember them sitting there with that "planning" icon or whatever. I don't mind the units acting somewhat out of my control, just more information on why.
This might be because you have to get used to the 'time and space' modelling, as Panther Games calls it.
I too had problems fitting all the actions in perspective, but I found if I keep a sharp eye on the clock and think for a minute how actions like this would take up time in the real world and suddenly the game starts to make more sense.
The urge to micromanage to the platoon level is something that needs to fade too, but I am getting there and it actually makes the game more enjoyable.
Thanks budd! I'll keep you posted.
here's some info on the upcoming KOAD module coming out soon. Just cross posting from LandL. I'm pretty excited about this one. Looking at the unit count and time frame there should be just constant action in these scenarios. I think these will have the biggest maps so far in CO2. I know the game doesn't have campaign per say but how awesome would say a 30 day scenario on a really big map be, the longest so far is 14 day scenario, really big maps are now possible in CO2.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo484%2Fronnie8691%2FScreenShot019_zpsqhd6ognf.jpg&hash=5127d79b5c80812b62dc6f2111b0b79c5d882e32)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo484%2Fronnie8691%2FScreenShot020_zpsvslyqnx3.jpg&hash=31a95a1955e25640910f16b05231e53cb8b4bec0)
One scenario is not on the list. You can see the unit count and time frame, this should be a bloody fine mess :)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1144.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo484%2Fronnie8691%2FScreenShot018_zpsyamumnkg.jpg&hash=9c431cea743b33d80d83730632c56b763933b097)
Remember Westwall and KOAD contain brand new scenarios, so you can jump into CO2 with some new stuff.
Thanks budd.
I have been busy with the three free scenario's. Really enjoying myself and its nice to see that battles don't have to play out the same way each time.
Once I feel comfortable with the game I will go ahead and buy a module.
I am tempted to go for the Market Garden one first as it features the area I am from.
Quote from: Yskonyn on October 18, 2015, 01:08:52 PM
Thanks budd.
I have been busy with the three free scenario's. Really enjoying myself and its nice to see that battles don't have to play out the same way each time.
Once I feel comfortable with the game I will go ahead and buy a module.
I am tempted to go for the Market Garden one first as it features the area I am from.
Thats one of the great things about CO. It's plays out differently each time to some degree depending on what you change. What helped me finally "get it" for CO2 was to approach it in a role play fashion, the uncertainty about it all is a big reason i find it fun. For fun sometimes when i had tasks to do in the house i would give my orders and wouldn't look at the screen for 30 minutes, usually set my stove timer, and then deal with the situation and give orders when i get back. If i recall correctly regular speed is 2 minutes of real time to 1 minute of game time or something like that.
did you play "return to St. Vith" yet? Curious to hear your approach,left, right or up the middle. How hard did you push. i played that one like 8 times, its the scenario i play to re-learn the controls and attacking.
HTTR is still my favorite, but the bulge stuff has more armor.
I played St. Vith while following along with the tutorial video's.
This coming week I will rerun it on my own. :)
Knock on all Doors is released, yesterday actually. $29.99US download. These are monster in size, units and maps. This is why they went to CO2, this size wasn't possible in CO1 i believe.
Knock on all Doors (KOAD) is a 12 scenario module for Command Ops 2 covering the momentous decisions in the first 48 hours of the battle of the bulge in Belgium 1944. These are very large scenarios in terms of area and forces. But they are relatively short and allow you to command either the German 7th Army, 5th Panzer Army or 1SS Panzer Korps and make the key initial decisions that will determine the outcome of this famous battle.
There are four sets of three scenarios. The first is the historical O-Tag or Day 1 set that commence on 16 December. The second or "Decision" set allows the player the opportunity to explore the famous "what ifs" faced by the German commanders on the second day of the battle 17 December. The third or "Knock" set works on the basis of employing the original staff plan, developed by General Manteuffel that embodied the concept of "knock on all doors and pour through the ones that open". The fourth "Big Knock" series takes this concept a little further and employs an augmented order of battle.
One of the joys of KOAD is the sheer scope of these scenarios. They enable you to gain an insight into the operational issues faced by the army commanders; explore options for employing different courses of action and game out the famous what-ifs that historians and analysts have debated.
So just curious....has there been any mention of when the next major version of the game will be released? Hate to buy all the scenarios now and for the next version to come out causing me to repurchase them yet again in the near future?
Ok here's how i understand it. Say i have all the modules[i do except for WW] all bug fixes, minor updates are free[minor i'm guessing would be something that didn't take 6 months or a long time to do]. Ok,so your modules are playing fine your in your happy, bugfree, gaming nirvana. Major update comes out, by major update i'm thinking mounted ops, sequential tasking, these are big and will take awhile to put in and get right. So the major update is released, at this point you have choices. You can stay put and happily CO2 game for your lifetime or you can pay to upgrade your old modules. Whatever modules you choose, say there's one that you don't play that much, don't update it,it will still play fine. Pay to upgrade the modules you choose to, and there will be bundle upgrade pricing, kinda like the commanders pack but cheaper and for the upgrading the modules. Thing is if your happy, game on, do nothing, your game is fine. You will have to have a separate install of the core engine for each version, meaning to play the ones you upgraded and the others you didn't, no big deal to me.The 2 big features i.e. sequential tasking, mounted ops are huge and will take this game to a whole new level[and the east front :D]and i can't imagine how much work it will take to get that right. Especially since Dave's seems like a bit of a perfectionist and takes a lot of pride in his product. With the new bigger map sizes possible with CO2 and mounted ops and sequential tasking in and continued improvement of the AI, hopefully, the game is going to places i want to see. My concern is this, the AI for CO especially the friendly AI has always been a cut above. I imagine its going to be quite hard with these new big features and take a real long time to get it up to snuff. I'm guessing they will be putting out data modules while dave focuses on the new big features.
Hope this helps-here's the LNL link to the pricing discussion. http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
Quote from: -budd- on November 28, 2015, 10:01:13 AM
Ok here's how i understand it. Say i have all the modules[i do except for WW] all bug fixes, minor updates are free[minor i'm guessing would be something that didn't take 6 months or a long time to do]. Ok,so your modules are playing fine your in your happy, bugfree, gaming nirvana. Major update comes out, by major update i'm thinking mounted ops, sequential tasking, these are big and will take awhile to put in and get right. So the major update is released, at this point you have choices. You can stay put and happily CO2 game for your lifetime or you can pay to upgrade your old modules. Whatever modules you choose, say there's one that you don't play that much, don't update it,it will still play fine. Pay to upgrade the modules you choose to, and there will be bundle upgrade pricing, kinda like the commanders pack but cheaper and for the upgrading the modules. Thing is if your happy, game on, do nothing, your game is fine. You will have to have a separate install of the core engine for each version, meaning to play the ones you upgraded and the others you didn't, no big deal to me.The 2 big features i.e. sequential tasking, mounted ops are huge and will take this game to a whole new level[and the east front :D]and i can't imagine how much work it will take to get that right. Especially since Dave's seems like a bit of a perfectionist and takes a lot of pride in his product. With the new bigger map sizes possible with CO2 and mounted ops and sequential tasking in and continued improvement of the AI, hopefully, the game is going to places i want to see. My concern is this, the AI for CO especially the friendly AI has always been a cut above. I imagine its going to be quite hard with these new big features and take a real long time to get it up to snuff. I'm guessing they will be putting out data modules while dave focuses on the new big features.
Hope this helps-here's the LNL link to the pricing discussion. http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-pricing-policy.1295/
hello Budd, I am good on the pricing policy and understand it, I was more wondering if there has been any talk on potential time frame when the next "Major" release would come out. Its highly likely I would want to keep my content current so just trying to think about that when I purchase. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was mentioned originally there might be 1-2 major releases a year, but not sure if that is really the expected pace at this point...but if so, it seems like we would be close to a potential upgrade coming.
I can't imagine it being close, he has still been fixing stuff in the release build and there's still a few on the list. If you don't have the commanders pack, i'd jump, it's almost as cheap as at release. $12 dollars a module, nice. I have only played some scenarios from a couple of the modules so far, i'm really waiting on getting my new laptop as this old laptop is struggling these days. I guess i can see how people would get PO'd , imagine buying the games the day before the upgrade :tickedoff:
If you don't have the COpack i'd jump at this price, if your going to play it. if not, wait. My personal opinion is that the big update is quite a ways off, this is CO2, things always take longer ;)
DC: Barbarossa put me back in the mood for WWII. Decided to use the 20% discount I had for KOAD and grab it. While I was there said "what the hell?" and grabbed WW, too...
I do love this game engine. I just need to play it more...
Quote from: -budd- on November 28, 2015, 10:42:20 AM
I can't imagine it being close, he has still been fixing stuff in the release build and there's still a few on the list. If you don't have the commanders pack, i'd jump, it's almost as cheap as at release. $12 dollars a module, nice. I have only played some scenarios from a couple of the modules so far, i'm really waiting on getting my new laptop as this old laptop is struggling these days. I guess i can see how people would get PO'd , imagine buying the games the day before the upgrade :tickedoff:
If you don't have the COpack i'd jump at this price, if your going to play it. if not, wait. My personal opinion is that the big update is quite a ways off, this is CO2, things always take longer ;)
Ok thanks....based on past history, kind of thought it would take longer than expected to bring out new major versions, just wanted to make sure.
Also: Commander Pack is a third off now! Buy, gents, buy!
Quote from: Father Ted on November 28, 2015, 12:48:55 PM
Also: Commander Pack is a third off now! Buy, gents, buy!
I hope it remains on sale for at least a few more days....I'm giving it serious consideration.
I think its over Monday. its says black Friday/cyber Monday sale. $12 a modules is pretty damn good.
Quote from: -budd- on November 28, 2015, 08:28:02 PM
I think its over Monday. its says black Friday/cyber Monday sale. $12 a modules is pretty damn good.
I think I might have finally seen the light last night after playing the CO2 Return to St Vith scenario... I never enjoyed CO1, partly due to scenarios not functioning at all like expected after multiple patches. The original tutorial in CO1 was almost impossible to play the way the video tutorial played out after a while. But last night I played out about 1/2 of that scenario on CO2, and it played like a dream. I took the river crossing relatively early, and was pushing on the next 2 objectives. I was having a hard time ejecting the Germans out of Lommersweiler, and foolishly left the river crossing undefended. During the night a German force reoccupied it, pouncing on my arrogance.
So, today I'm going to decide what my Christmas purchases are going to be, and CO2 at $60 is certainly being considered again.
Yes I am very close to pulling the trigger as well, but we only have one more day left to decide... or hope there will be a similar sale right before X-Mas...
Are there any updates to these games? I have the Commanders pack from my original purchase and I cannot for the life of me find any updates. It's entirely possible there may not be any - but as far as I was aware, the briefings for the scenarios were going to get "situation" maps. Currently, those are only present for the 3 core scenarios.
Besides...come on...there must be a patch right?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 29, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Are there any updates to these games? I have the Commanders pack from my original purchase and I cannot for the life of me find any updates. It's entirely possible there may not be any - but as far as I was aware, the briefings for the scenarios were going to get "situation" maps. Currently, those are only present for the 3 core scenarios.
Besides...come on...there must be a patch right?
There have been many patches.....when I installed the base game, it put an icon on my desktop for getting updates. When you run that, it brings down and installs the latest patch...I believe latest version is 5.1.24
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 29, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Are there any updates to these games? I have the Commanders pack from my original purchase and I cannot for the life of me find any updates. It's entirely possible there may not be any - but as far as I was aware, the briefings for the scenarios were going to get "situation" maps. Currently, those are only present for the 3 core scenarios.
Besides...come on...there must be a patch right?
A lot more SAM's for the other modules now, not all yet.
Quote from: smittyohio on November 29, 2015, 08:58:28 AM
Quote from: -budd- on November 28, 2015, 08:28:02 PM
I think its over Monday. its says black Friday/cyber Monday sale. $12 a modules is pretty damn good.
I think I might have finally seen the light last night after playing the CO2 Return to St Vith scenario... I never enjoyed CO1, partly due to scenarios not functioning at all like expected after multiple patches. The original tutorial in CO1 was almost impossible to play the way the video tutorial played out after a while. But last night I played out about 1/2 of that scenario on CO2, and it played like a dream. I took the river crossing relatively early, and was pushing on the next 2 objectives. I was having a hard time ejecting the Germans out of Lommersweiler, and foolishly left the river crossing undefended. During the night a German force reoccupied it, pouncing on my arrogance.
So, today I'm going to decide what my Christmas purchases are going to be, and CO2 at $60 is certainly being considered again.
Get to ST.Vith as early as possible.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on November 29, 2015, 09:41:40 AM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 29, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Are there any updates to these games? I have the Commanders pack from my original purchase and I cannot for the life of me find any updates. It's entirely possible there may not be any - but as far as I was aware, the briefings for the scenarios were going to get "situation" maps. Currently, those are only present for the 3 core scenarios.
Besides...come on...there must be a patch right?
There have been many patches.....when I installed the base game, it put an icon on my desktop for getting updates. When you run that, it brings down and installs the latest patch...I believe latest version is 5.1.24
Thank you GR. That icon was lost on my desktop! O0
^ Well that did work - but what a mess.
Double clicking the icon actually fired up the game. That was the first thing. The next thing was it launched 5 (or 6) update applications which had to be dealt with individually. I have no idea if I did them in the right order or whether the order actually mattered. I assume not - but I don't know because now running the update shortcut gives me 5 dialog boxes - all errors - saying
C++ Runtime Error
Program E:\Command Ops 2\Update1.exe
abnormal program termination
And they all say that (replacing the number 1 with 2, 3 etc) :idiot2:
Quote from: JudgeDredd on November 29, 2015, 10:25:02 AM
^ Well that did work - but what a mess.
Double clicking the icon actually fired up the game. That was the first thing. The next thing was it launched 5 (or 6) update applications which had to be dealt with individually. I have no idea if I did them in the right order or whether the order actually mattered. I assume not - but I don't know because now running the update shortcut gives me 5 dialog boxes - all errors - saying
C++ Runtime Error
Program E:\Command Ops 2\Update1.exe
abnormal program termination
And they all say that (replacing the number 1 with 2, 3 etc) :idiot2:
try this- CO2 root directory
http://forums.lnlpublishing.com/threads/co2-2013-release-dlls.2309/
Thanks budd - but that didn't fix it.
For info - the game runs. It's the updater that doesn't now. I know the game is "up to date"...I just re-ran the updater after updating to double check and the errors occurred.
In other words - if I can't get that fixed, I will not be able to update the game again when there is an update.
Perhaps I'll post on their forum.
I bit... and am bound and determined to get my money's worth out of this iteration of the engine.
I am playing Elsborne Ridge for like the 10th time. Its my Great White Whale. Someday (hopefully this time) I will get a decisive victory.
Meanwhile I cant think of any other game that makes me come back again and again like this Command Ops.
Con
With my issue, I decided to uninstall, reinstall and update again.
I suspected I may have upgraded "out of order" because when I selected to upgrade, 6 upgrade boxes showed up and I wasn't sure what order I performed the update in.
So I installed and upgraded and this time I made sure I upgraded the core engine first. It's possible that cured the problem, because the issue is gone now. O0
I didn't bite. Next sale perhaps.
Is anyone having problems with the overlays? I tried to use it to see foot movement across the St Vith map and nothing is showing.
I've read the manual on the matter and can't see anything I'm doing wrong. You've only got to click the button. None of the overlays using the button at the bottom of the interface works for me.
The LOS tool works though. (different button)
Was the game running? I think the game has to paused for you to use them now.
Ouch
Just re-read and saw this
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FSnap1_zps3envoo3v.jpg&hash=0afdcc61c4d8f513420ae9791cedf00fdced016a)
Thanks Pinetree O0
which module, scenario you playing?
St Vith just now
lol - this game has one bad ass AI! O0
Ha...St Vith is OK but wait till you try Elsborne Ridge
Con